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NO Access to trusts pool by enrolled owners (Marriott's response - post #447)

siberiavol

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Enrolled members can't get anything from trust unless a new point purchaser now known as NPP or Marriot puts it in the Destination Exchange program.The NPP can get anything they want from trust but only what is is deposited in the Destination Exchange program.

I assume my VOA will go to Marriott and ask for them to give up some trust property per my request. Maybe yes ,maybe no and nobody knows why but the NPP always gets a yes if it is there. THE NPP also always gets a yes if it is there in the Destination Exchange program as do I as an enrolled member.

Am I understanding this correctly?
 

GregT

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So then there are FOUR inventory pools. (By inventory pool, I mean a source where someone might go to obtain time at a Marriott Vacation Club resort.)

1. Weeks Inventory = accessible by Legacy Weeks Owners and Enrolled Weeks Owners wishing to reserve full-week at home resort via the legacy method

2. Trust Inventory = accessible by Points Owners wishing to reserve via the points method

3. Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Inventory = accessible by Points Owners and/or Enrolled Weeks Owners wishing to exchange via the points method

4. Interval International Inventory = accessible by all for full-week exchanges not using the points method

I believe this is correct, except that #4 would be sourced from the others, ie a week deposited by either legacy weeks owners, or from Marriott via exchange of a Trust Week or a week deposited from a points owner.

Someday, we'll have a flow chart!!!!
 

GregT

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Enrolled members can't get anything from trust unless a new point purchaser now known as NPP or Marriot puts it in the Destination Exchange program.The NPP can get anything they want from trust but only what is is deposited in the Destination Exchange program.

I assume my VOA will go to Marriott and ask for them to give up some trust property per my request. Maybe yes ,maybe no and nobody knows why but the NPP always gets a yes if it is there. THE NPP also always gets a yes if it is there in the Destination Exchange program as do I as an enrolled member.

Am I understanding this correctly?


That is the current understanding. I would add that I suspect Marriott will make alot of the Trust weeks available to the Destination Exchange Program to help facilitate legacy week members trade requests.

It would be an incredible debacle if legacy week members requested exchanges that we all know exist in the Trust (like Puck's pursuit of Kauai Lagoons) that weren't matched (and they can only be matched from the Trust inventory, as it is a new property).

Unfortunately, Trust Points > Legacy Points, and we must believe that Marriott will make manage the inventory such that they are functionally equal.

Interesting days ahead.

Best to all,

Greg
 

jimf41

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So I'm summarizing this for my benefit - let me know if I've got anything wrong here.

Owners of the new points product <> Enrolled Owners

Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Inventory <> Weeks owned by the Trust

So then there are FOUR inventory pools. (By inventory pool, I mean a source where someone might go to obtain time at a Marriott Vacation Club resort.)

1. Weeks Inventory = accessible by Legacy Weeks Owners and Enrolled Weeks Owners wishing to reserve full-week at home resort via the legacy method

2. Trust Inventory = accessible by Points Owners wishing to reserve via the points method

3. Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Inventory = accessible by Points Owners and/or Enrolled Weeks Owners wishing to exchange via the points method

4. Interval International Inventory = accessible by all for full-week exchanges not using the points method

I would add one more pool. Weeks traded for MRP's. Marriott holds the pursestrings on that pool and they can decide which other pool they go into or choose to rent them.

Regardless of what pool contains what weeks and who gets to fish in what pool the only thing that matters to legacy owners is will the weeks we request be easier to get, harder to get or about the same as it has been in the past. I imagine we'll find out over the next year or so.
 

pipet

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Someday, we'll have a flow chart!!!!

Sorry, but that made me think of this article I saw in the NYT a while back about Powerpoint winning the war... with this lovely diagram:
27powerpoint_CA0-articleLarge.jpg


Just substitute in pools, points, MRP points, marbles, cookies, and weeks, various exchange programs, trusts, etc... and we have the new Marriott system. Viola!
 

gblotter

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I would add one more pool. Weeks traded for MRP's. Marriott holds the pursestrings on that pool and they can decide which other pool they go into or choose to rent them.
Very true - I forgot about that scenario. I modified my post to include this fifth inventory pool.
 

cruisin

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If enrolled legacy owners had full access to all point inventory, Marriott would shout it from the rooftops, it would be a major selling point. They obviously dont, but this really does make sense, when a developer is anti owner, this would be the logical anti owner stance to take, its just who Marriott is. That answer from Marriott was pathetic, but expected.
 

SueDonJ

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Somebody said it very clearly two weeks ago - Trust Members own points, Exchange Members own Weeks that can be converted to points, and the Exchange Company is the facilitator when each is requesting inventory that's not available within their respective ownership pools. I believe like others have said that there will have to be co-mingling of the inventory if the new system is going to be a success for Marriott, and I have no doubt that Marriott is going to do everything possible to make this a success.

Their biggest mistake with this whole thing was in not making sure that every one of their reps was schooled to answer the questions that they should have expected. But the legal mumbo-jumbo rolled out with this isn't any different than the Public Offering Statements that are given to every Weeks direct purchaser, and Marriott doesn't offer easy answers to every question raised by those either. TUG knows all the Weeks answers because we've had years to review the docs and put the system to practice; eventually we'll have all the Points answers too.

But dang! This is frustrating when you want the answers yesterday!
 

SueDonJ

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Who was it who said weeks ago that he didn't care if Marriott got his week from Mars as long as he could go where he wanted? I have decided that wins Best.Post.Ever. :D
 

5infam

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Sorry, but that made me think of this article I saw in the NYT a while back about Powerpoint winning the war... with this lovely diagram:
27powerpoint_CA0-articleLarge.jpg


Just substitute in pools, points, MRP points, marbles, cookies, and weeks, various exchange programs, trusts, etc... and we have the new Marriott system. Viola!

Ha - Too funny!!!:hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical:
 

Dr. Buck

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For what it's worth, this verbatim from a Marriott Supervisor.

Marriott:
You will only have access to the trust pool via Interval. Now this will only happen when you elect for Vacation Club points. You can still exchange directly via Interval.

Question : So basically if I enroll, and if I buy into the trust, I have 2 classes of points....trust points with access to trust, and enrolled deposited points only with exchange rights through Interval?

Marriott:
That is right. But you can still exchange directly with points if the week that you want has been elected for points.

When you place a request for a 7 night stay using points, if there is not availability, we would put you on waitlist. We would then look for weeks that have been given up for Vacation club points and weeks that have been deposited to Interval by all owners.
 

gblotter

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Somebody said it very clearly two weeks ago - Trust Members own points, Exchange Members own Weeks that can be converted to points, and the Exchange Company is the facilitator when each is requesting inventory that's not available within their respective ownership pools.
Well said. I've been following all these tugbbs discussions since June 20, but I have never been able to glue together all the pieces in my mind. I think I've had an epiphany today about how this all really works. Wish I could have figured it out weeks ago. Doubtless something will surface tomorrow that will turn my "clear understanding" on its head - lol. Marriott is certainly not making it easy on anyone (owners or their own reps) to comprehend the details.
 
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GregT

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Sorry, but that made me think of this article I saw in the NYT a while back about Powerpoint winning the war... with this lovely diagram:
27powerpoint_CA0-articleLarge.jpg


Just substitute in pools, points, MRP points, marbles, cookies, and weeks, various exchange programs, trusts, etc... and we have the new Marriott system. Viola!

I like the flowchart!!!!!
 

DanCali

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Nope. You got it exactly right. Non-enrolled weeks owners have access to inventory at their own resort and II. Enrolled weeks owners have access to inventory at their own resort and II plus all of the inventory in the Destination Points Program including all of the inventory of the 11 resorts in the Trust.


Yes, I think enrolled owners have access to the Trust, but not as a reservation system. They only get access when a trust points owners puts in a request and Marriott needs to pull it (fullfill their request) out of the Weeks Exchange System. So advantage goes to the Trsut Points owner, who gets to see everything first. If it is not in the exchange company, weeks can not access the Trust.

5infam is correct. Having access to something doesn't necessarily mean you can book it as a reservation system. Access < Direct Access.

I "have access" to 3000 resorts via II... I still need to make an exchange. That verbiage is misleading and I dare say it is misleading on purpose. The average owner will never realize that they don't have direct access to the trust.


We will find out on Monday.

I guarantee Marriott dropped at least enough points into the exchange company to satifsy all exchanges on Monday and the entire next few months. So what? That doesn't change the way the system is structured...

When REAL points owners will get what is going on and will complain that they don't want to compete for trust reservations at their "home resort" with converted weeks owners, that charade will stop...
 

Luckybee

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One thing that strikes me as interesting is what effect having a good VOA might be under the new system. With II the week one is depositing determines, by the formula, whether one can obtain the desired week. Now if one has a VOA prepared to go the distance might there be preferential treatment, that is, might a good VOA have the "pull" so to speak in getting the trust to "depost" a week into the destination program for a "good" customer? And better yet, how would anyone ever know if this is happening?

The variety of variables and still unknowns here are rather astounding !
 

m61376

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5infam is correct. Having access to something doesn't necessarily mean you can book it as a reservation system. Access < Direct Access.

I "have access" to 3000 resorts via II... I still need to make an exchange. That verbiage is misleading and I dare say it is misleading on purpose. The average owner will never realize that they don't have direct access to the trust.



I guarantee Marriott dropped at least enough points into the exchange company to satifsy all exchanges on Monday and the entire next few months. So what? That doesn't change the way the system is structured...

When REAL points owners will get what is going on and will complain that they don't want to compete for trust reservations at their "home resort" with converted weeks owners, that charade will stop...

Very true.

In readying through the above posts no one else seemed to highlight the direct access versus access verbiage (sorry if I missed it while skimming through). From Dave's post:
"The inventory that owners of the new points product have direct access to at any resort consists of weeks that are actually owned by the Trust. Any other occupancy by owners of the new points product at a resort, is of inventory that owners of weeks have elected to place into the new points exchange program.

Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks continue to have access to inventory at their home resort and Interval International exchange inventory, as they have in the past. Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks who enroll in the points product and elect to exchange for Vacation Club points have access to Marriott Vacation Club Destinations inventory and Interval International exchange inventory."

The only people who have direct access to inventory in the trust are, as expected, owners of the new points product.

This was a legally crafted document, purposefully written for reprint on Tug. It delineates what inventory each group has access or DIRECT access to, and I think was purposefully crafted so as not to imply what will likely be going on behind the scenes. Access is equivalent to exchanging and direct access is equivalent to being able to directly reserve, subject to availability.

In reality, everything is subject to availability- with some things being more available than others, and more available to some people than others. Trust point owners may theoretically have first crack at trust inventory, but that may be mitigated by Marriott having transferred some of those units into the destination club pool in exchange for non-trust inventory (ex.-enrolled weeks traded for points). So, as Greg stated above, this may be a seamless distinction and there may be enough to go around for everyone.

Until a substantial amount of the trust is actually sold, I have no doubt that this won't be an issue. That's why I think all the "let's see what happens on June 26th" is a meaningless determinant of how the system will really run down the road. The impact of trust point owners having first crack at all the inventory won't be felt for years to come, because at the onset Marriott will assuredly be putting trust inventory in the general club pool.

I think it will be years before we really know if trust points>legacy points will have a real functional difference. It is clear from Marriott's refusal to specifically address the questions that Dave presented, proffering a generalized response instead which outlines what each group has access (or direct access) to, that at least legally trust and legacy points are not equivalent.
 

windje2000

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There's two kinds of points

First, there's the kind that represent ownership of real property and require a $.40 per annum payment of maintenance fees to the Trust. That payment gets you first dibs on the trust inventory, which represents the equivalent of your home resort. Just like your deed gets you first dibs on home resort reservations.

The second kind of points has no $.40 per annum payment of maintenance fees because they're 'assigned points.' They are akin to casino chips, convertible into whatever you can find in the exchange company.

If you are paying $.40 per annum MF you have type 1 points.

If you are not paying $.40 per annum MF, you have type 2 points.

Type 1 or Trust ownership points work in their home resort (the trust) and the exchange company.

Deeds work in the home resort and can convert to type 2 (no $.40 MF) points for use in the exchange company.

The real question is who has first dibs on property deposited in the exchange company.
 

tombo

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Trust members own points, Exchange Members own Weeks that can be converted to points, and the Exchange Company is the facilitator when each is requesting inventory that's not available within their respective ownership pools.

Well said. I've been following all these tugbbs discussions since June 20, but I have never been able to glue together all the pieces in my mind. I think I've had an epiphany today about how this all really works. Wish I could have figured it out weeks ago. Doubtless something will surface tomorrow that will turn my "clear understanding" on its head - lol. Marriott is certainly not making it easy on anyone (owners or their own reps) to comprehend the details.

Well said except that the trust points purchasers respective pool is BOTH POOLS (the trust inventory, and the weeks inventory deposited for points). Weeks owners who deposit their weeks for points only have access to one pool (the weeks deposited for points inventory).

So trust points owners have access to all pools, weeks owners who convert to points only get to go in the kiddie pool.
 
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pfrank4127

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There's two kinds of points

First, there's the kind that represent ownership of real property and require a $.40 per annum payment of maintenance fees to the Trust. That payment gets you first dibs on the trust inventory, which represents the equivalent of your home resort. Just like your deed gets you first dibs on home resort reservations.

The second kind of points has no $.40 per annum payment of maintenance fees because they're 'assigned points.' They are akin to casino chips, convertible into whatever you can find in the exchange company.

If you are paying $.40 per annum MF you have type 1 points.

If you are not paying $.40 per annum MF, you have type 2 points.

Type 1 or Trust ownership points work in their home resort (the trust) and the exchange company.

Deeds work in the home resort and can convert to type 2 (no $.40 MF) points for use in the exchange company.

The real question is who has first dibs on property deposited in the exchange company.

This is exactly how I see it! Also I think everyone is losing sight the trust only includes 11 resorts.
 

puckmanfl

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good morning...

Here's the rub.

Let's assume there are 40,000,000 points in the trust and today 4,000,000 points have been sold to trust owners. Let's call these trust owners, the trust owners association. The association owns 10% of the trust and MVCD the other 90%. Why should the trust owners association have access to 100% of trust inventory when they only own 10%!!!!...

The association should have access to a % of inventory in the trust that they actually own. I still don't understand why the association members have unfettered access to Exchange company inventory which is owned by MVCD but legacy owners in this case does not have unfettered access to UNSOLD trust inventory also owned by MVCD....
 

hipslo

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I "have access" to 3000 resorts via II... I still need to make an exchange. That verbiage is misleading and I dare say it is misleading on purpose. The average owner will never realize that they don't have direct access to the trust.

Bingo!



I guarantee Marriott dropped at least enough points into the exchange company to satifsy all exchanges on Monday and the entire next few months. So what? That doesn't change the way the system is structured...

When REAL points owners will get what is going on and will complain that they don't want to compete for trust reservations at their "home resort" with converted weeks owners, that charade will stop...

Yup - all enrolled owners, whether we are enrolling direct purchase weeks or resale weeks, will be second in line behind points purchasers, as to the inventory in the trust. Whether or not this makes any functional difference remains to be seen, but at least structurally, the possibility is there.

This strikes me as potentially a more significant difference than the prior distinction between direct purchasers and resale purchasers (no MRPs for resale purchasers).

So whoever said we are ALL resale owners now, I suppose I would have to agree.
 

tombo

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This is exactly how I see it! Also I think everyone is losing sight the trust only includes 11 resorts.

Does it make it the screwing Marriott put on weeks owners in the new points program a lot better since we are only "totally locked out" of 11 resorts? Before points ALL owners had access to ALL Marriott resorts. Now only new purchasers have access to ALL current and future Marriott resorts and weeks owned by the trust.


At 8 am 12 months in advance points purchasers have the same access to weeks inventory deposited for points that weeks owners who deposited it have. Weeks owners NEVER have access to the trust inventory (except when Marriott feels like throwing weeks owners a crumb) whether it is the current 11 resorts, or 21 or 51 in the future. In addition if Marriott ever buys/builds a new resort or ever starts ROFR'ing again, every single week will be in the trust and unavailable to weeks exchangers who convert to points.
 
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JimIg23

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there is also the issue of weeks owners converting to MRPs. Where does that inventory go?
 

windje2000

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Does it make it the screwing Marriott put on weeks owners in the new points program a lot better since we are only "totally locked out" of 11 resorts? Before points ALL owners had access to ALL Marriott resorts. Now only new purchasers have access to ALL current and future Marriott resorts.


At 8 am 12 months in advance points purchasers have the same access to weeks inventory deposited for points that weeks owners who deposited it have. Weeks owners NEVER have access to the trust inventory whether it is the current 11 resorts, or 21 in the future. In addition if Marriott ever buys/builds a new resort or ever starts ROFR'ing again, every single week will be in the trust and unavailable to weeks exchangers who convert to points.

The non trust owner neither owns nor is paying maintenance fees on the trust inventory. Owners should come first, just like owners come first in your home resort. The trust owners do not have direct access to the inventory represented by deeds. Why should a non trust owner have direct access to trust inventory? It's the home resort of the trust owners.

The trust and the exchange company are separate entities, exactly like your home resort and II are separate entities.

If you enroll, you have access to what trust owners and deeded enrolled owners are willing to deposit in the exchange company.

Not different from II - you have access to inventory that deeded owners are willing to exchange and have deposited in the II exchange company.
 
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