New Point Requirements to Trade Hyatt in II?

[5finny]

Actually my impression was that owning a low cost ownership with a good amount of points was an excellent value for internal trading
I don't believe they have changed this so it still should be--my hesitation is that there seems to be a lot of change and none of it good
Since I am actually not an owner I am not a great source of accurate info
Perhaps @ScoopKona will chime in

 

[Mongoose]

So was Hyatt only a good value exchanging through II. Was exchanging internally with points not a good option?

Internal exchanges are great, but we can’t exchange internally with the Welk/Platinum locations.

 

[Mongoose]

Has anyone seen a Platinum/Welk points chart for II? It used to be flat regardless of season:
240,000 for 2BR
120,000 for 1BR
90,000 for Studio

I wonder if they put the screws to us, because they see the future there.

 

[ScoopKona]

1) At this point I look at hyatt as the abused and neglected step child of Marriott
2) I think I would only be interested in a week I would definitely want to personally use each year and even then the thought of another Coconut Cove aka Plantation would make me think twice

[Numbers added for clarity]

1) It's more like, "We can't make Marriott's program as good as this Hyatt program we just bought. Let's tamper with the Hyatt system to make Marriott look better by comparison.

2) Basically, Hyatt owners all lost one potential week with Interval. Instead of being able to trade for 2-to-5 weeks every year, I can only trade for 2-to-4. Yes, it's a hit and nobody likes it. But I'm still 100% OK getting a mere 3-4 weeks out of my single maintenance fee.

 

[5finny]

1) It's more like, "We can't make Marriott's program as good as this Hyatt program we just bought. Let's tamper with the Hyatt system to make Marriott look better by comparison.

2) Basically, Hyatt owners all lost one potential week with Interval. Instead of being able to trade for 2-to-5 weeks every year, I can only trade for 2-to-4. Yes, it's a hit and nobody likes it. But I'm still 100% OK getting a mere 3-4 weeks out of my single maintenance fee.

How about for internal trading ?

 

[dioxide45]

Internal exchanges are great, but we can’t exchange internally with the Welk/Platinum locations.

But you can exchange internally between the 17 Hyatt *whatever they call them* legacy resorts. Kinda "Portfolio" program, but that actually doesn't have a number of resorts in it, Ka'anapali and residences being the ones I notice.

 

[heathpack]

How about for internal trading ?

The internal trading is decent but:
1. Not a bargain
2. Limited locations

The interval trading was excellent and notable for:
1. Being a bargain
2. Lots of locations

It depends on what you’re looking for. To me, owning an expensive week to trade into only a few locations isn’t worth it. If you love Hyatt resorts and are cost-insensitive, then the value with internal trading might be there for you.

But Im just plain disgusted with Hyatt. The Portfolio program is insultingly terrible, and then rather than fix it, Hyatt doubles down on it and changes the II points charts with zero notice. The points chart change is a blatant attempt to try to force folks into buying Portfolio points. A decent company would grandfather existing interval deposits at the value designated by the previous points charts because folks parsed out points based on how they expected to be able to use them. Once you move points to II, you can’t move them back (Hyatt’s rule). But then they change the points charts and leave folks not enough points to make their intended trades. They effectively render points unusable for some folks.

Hyatt is showing contempt for their owners. It’s naive to expect they will do anything but continue to treat owners contemptuously. There is nothing to stop them from deciding next Tuesday that trading into an internal unit takes 2x the points that it currently does, while still assigning owners the old 1x point value for their unit. This would be another way to try to force folks to buy Portfolio points. I absolutely would not put it past them.

Caveat emptor. This is indeed a sleazeball timeshare company.

 

[ScoopKona]

But Im just plain disgusted with Hyatt. The Portfolio program is insultingly terrible, and then rather than fix it, Hyatt doubles down on it and changes the II points charts with zero notice.

Hyatt -- the real Hyatt, the ones who created this program in the first place -- had NOTHING to do with this. This is Marriott. None of this stupidity started until Interval bought the Hyatt Residence Club and then Marriott bought Interval.

It's Hyatt in name only. I'm naturally upset that the Pritzkers chose to sell the timeshare division to Interval. But everything worked great until a few years ago when the mergers happened.

 

[Hindsite]

Has anyone seen a Platinum/Welk points chart for II? It used to be flat regardless of season:
240,000 for 2BR
120,000 for 1BR
90,000 for Studio

I wonder if they put the screws to us, because they see the future there.

Welk and Diamond also seem to have had points chart changes in II at the start of the year.
Somewhere I have seen the Welk change and it looks a lot like the structure for the Hyatt change except the numbers of points needed are a lot larger.
I've not seen Diamond changes, just read that they changed.

 

[GTLINZ]

Hyatt is showing contempt for their owners. It’s naive to expect they will do anything but continue to treat owners contemptuously. There is nothing to stop them from deciding next Tuesday that trading into an internal unit takes 2x the points that it currently does, while still assigning owners the old 1x point value for their unit. This would be another way to try to force folks to buy Portfolio points. I absolutely would not put it past them.

Caveat emptor. This is indeed a sleazeball timeshare company.

Could it be that they are trying to encourage existing HRC owners to give up their deeds on the cheap so that the pathetic Portfolio program will actually garner some inventory ?

Based on how Hyatt is treating their owners, why would any informed buyer have anything to do with Hyatt (now HPP)? The younger generation is not buying, and they are alienating the older generation.

The wheel is starting to wobble on the MVC bus. Their stock is way down because you can only reinvent the wheel so many times and what was once a good deal is not so much anymore. They are messing with their owners on rentals, also, which was a huge incentive for owners.

When they drive away owners, the MFs rise and eventually they can destroy the foundation that holds up the house. They original deeded model was pretty stable.

 

[ScoopKona]

They original deeded model was pretty stable.

The original model also required building new resorts for growth. Building resorts in high-demand tourist towns is difficult. (The best man at my wedding built the Key West resorts. He's still there -- running a real estate empire.) Permits are hard and require city commission approval, which usually requires large "campaign donations."

As soon as they realized the average person will buy any damned thing, they moved to selling the same resorts over and over because that's simple. They already have the building. There aren't any commissioners or planning departments to bribe. They thought they could keep this wheel spinning in perpetuity. Some deeded owner ages out? Grab their deed and sell the points to someone else.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul worked longer than I thought it would. I expect that they will keep slinging pizzas at the wall, hoping something sticks. Going back to "build a resort and sell it" is unlikely. They'll sell their non-performing assets off before they do that -- leaving the few deeded owners on the hook for massive HOA fees because you can't go after "points" for non-payment.

I think we're years away from seeing that happen. And it will start with the marginal properties. They're the canary in the coal mine. Have an exit strategy, though.

 

[Mongoose]

Could it be that they are trying to encourage existing HRC owners to give up their deeds on the cheap so that the pathetic Portfolio program will actually garner some inventory ?

Based on how Hyatt is treating their owners, why would any informed buyer have anything to do with Hyatt (now HPP)? The younger generation is not buying, and they are alienating the older generation.

The wheel is starting to wobble on the MVC bus. Their stock is way down because you can only reinvent the wheel so many times and what was once a good deal is not so much anymore. They are messing with their owners on rentals, also, which was a huge incentive for owners.

When they drive away owners, the MFs rise and eventually they can destroy the foundation that holds up the house. They original deeded model was pretty stable.

I think their focus is now the Welk/Platinum Program. Welk has 20,000 more owners and more unit weeks available for sale than Heritage and Portfolio combined. Be on the look out in the next 2 years for a new program that will “benefit” Heritage and Portfolio owners to buy into Platinum.

 

[bnoble]

It could just be that they decided the supply/demand balance was out of alignment, and they re-aligned the charts. The fact that many Hyatt owners constantly crowed about how awesome Hyatt was in Interval lends at least some credence to this theory--they were probably not wrong, but screaming good deals tend to disappear over time.

I know such a suggestion is odd here at TUG where we are sure that everything a timeshare company does is targeted at cheating us each individually, but still.

 

[ScoopKona]

I know such a suggestion is odd here at TUG where we are sure that everything a timeshare company does is targeted at cheating us each individually, but still.

Basically, we've lost a (possible) week in Interval. That's what this amounts to. Instead of getting 3-5 weeks each year, I now get 2-4.

That being said, families who need 2 bedrooms in high season are losing even more -- to the point where Bronze and Silver weeks may be completely unusable. Couple the Interval change with what happened with Sunset Harbor, the awful new website, the Welk silliness, and everything else they've done, and Marriott doesn't look like they're trying to do right by legacy Hyatt owners.

The cynic in me says they'd prefer it if all of the Deeded Legacy Owners walk away so they can sell the points again and again. There are enough people who will buy without doing any research at all, thanks to the lure of a free "gift" headache. So long as people will buy without reading, this business model will keep chugging along. "I got a free dinner! And bought a $50,000 point package!"

 

[fleecer]

Hyatt's current efforts to wring more out of their Welk owners while simultaneously hosing them is contemptuous bordering on laughable. One of my 3-4 e-mails from them this week offered a 4-day stay at Sirena del Mar Cabo (a resort I've enjoyed using), with a few "exciting" bennies (tequila tasting, whale watch, etc.) for a mandatory ownership meet-up. And it would only cost me 150K points -- which is more points than it would cost if I just made the reservation internally on my own, thru the Hyatt site.

 

[Hindsite]

Based on how Hyatt is treating their owners, why would any informed buyer have anything to do with Hyatt (now HPP)? The younger generation is not buying, and they are alienating the older generation.

You mean MVW, not MVC.

 

[Mongoose]

Hyatt's current efforts to wring more out of their Welk owners while simultaneously hosing them is contemptuous bordering on laughable. One of my 3-4 e-mails from them this week offered a 4-day stay at Sirena del Mar Cabo (a resort I've enjoyed using), with a few "exciting" bennies (tequila tasting, whale watch, etc.) for a mandatory ownership meet-up. And it would only cost me 150K points -- which is more points than it would cost if I just made the reservation on my own, thru the Hyatt site.

Can you pull up the new Welk/Platinum exchange points table in II? I’d love to see it.

 

[fleecer]

Can you pull up the new Welk/Platinum exchange points table in II? I’d love to see it.

I'm uncertain of the "points table" to which you're referring. All of the II units require different Welk points, depending on the resort and time of year. Particularly since our points "devaluation" for II trading, the new inflated trade point costs are all over the map, i.e., studios and 1 BRs in one resort won't always be the same at other resorts.

I'm a former Welk (now Hyatt) points owner. My original post was referring to the points SDM would cost me if I exchanged internally through Hyatt -- which haven't changed.

 

[Mongoose]

I'm uncertain of the "points table" to which you're referring. All of the II units require different Welk points, depending on the resort and time of year. Particularly since our points "devaluation" for II trading, the new inflated trade point costs are all over the map, i.e., studios and 1 BRs in one resort won't always be the same at other resorts.

I'm a former Welk (now Hyatt) points owner. My original post was referring to the points SDM would cost me if I exchanged internally through Hyatt -- which haven't changed.

See post #12. Platinum should have a similar table.

 

[heathpack]

It could just be that they decided the supply/demand balance was out of alignment, and they re-aligned the charts. The fact that many Hyatt owners constantly crowed about how awesome Hyatt was in Interval lends at least some credence to this theory--they were probably not wrong, but screaming good deals tend to disappear over time.

I know such a suggestion is odd here at TUG where we are sure that everything a timeshare company does is targeted at cheating us each individually, but still.

Hyatt owners were no more crowing about their interval exchanges than do Marriott owners about their internal trading preference into Marriott inventory or their killer flexchange upgrades. Ha, I can imagine the drama from Marriott owners if MVCI decided to “rebalance” interval trading by eliminating the Marriott-Marriott preference period.

Jeez- Hyatt has always had its disadvantages in II trading. No flex change, no free unit size upgrade in available inventory (which existed for years for everyone BUT Hyatt owners who always paid more points for a bigger unit), no ability to trade into Hyatt properties in II. It did however had one great advantage- the favorable points charts for II trading. The elimination of which makes II trading now a very poor proposition for Hyatt owners. Hmm, I wonder what *your* reaction would be should this occur with your timeshare system. I’m sure you’d calmly accept it as a “rebalancing” with nary a peep.

 

[dioxide45]

See post #12. Platinum should have a similar table.

I thought, for a while, Hyatt through II didn't have the grid. One would just search for inventory and it would show how many points. Then the grids came back. Have they fixed the issue yet with the unclickable point values on the grids? I believe that Sheraton Flex has a grid, but the grid doesn't show up online when initiating a search.

The grids should all be in the II Buyers Guide for the respective ownership. I would suggest reaching out to II or even Hyatt to obtain a copy of the most recent guide which should have the most recent grid. It will be in that guide regardless if you can see it online when initiating a search for inventory.

 

[sponger76]

Hyatt owners were no more crowing about their interval exchanges than do Marriott owners about their internal trading preference into Marriott inventory or their killer flexchange upgrades.

The Marriott preference period in II came about as the original version of internal exchanges since Marriott didn't have their own booking system between different resorts. Hyatt has their equivalent through the actual Hyatt internal system, where they have access to all Hyatt resorts well before that inventory ever becomes available to others in II. Yes, Marriott has their own system now, but it's not available to all owners, while II is.

The crowing I've seen from Hyatt owners is about the ability to get multiple weeks of II trades, by some accounts as many as five, out of one MF. The Marriott week owner's equivalent is using a lockoff to get multiple weeks, but it is capped at the number of sides of the lockoff, which in all or at least nearly all cases is two.

Jeez- Hyatt has always had its disadvantages in II trading. No flex change, no free unit size upgrade in available inventory (which existed for years for everyone BUT Hyatt owners who always paid more points for a bigger unit)

Vistana points owners also don't get flexchange, no discounts on number of points or free unit size upgrades. They always use exactly the number of points based on unit size and TDI. So that's not just Hyatt.

no ability to trade into Hyatt properties in II.

If exchanging in II using Marriott's points product (formerly Destination Club, now Abound), one cannot exchange into Marriott, Sheraton or Westin resorts.

While I'm sure I wouldn't be happy if I owned Hyatt, based on the above, it basically seems the playing field was essentially made more even, not less.

 

[GTLINZ]

The crowing I've seen from Hyatt owners is about the ability to get multiple weeks of II trades, by some accounts as many as five, out of one MF. The Marriott week owner's equivalent is using a lockoff to get multiple weeks, but it is capped at the number of sides of the lockoff, which in all or at least nearly all cases is two.

@sponger76 You are missing an important point. Getting 5 weeks out of one was using the points from a peak 2br for 5 studios in interval. And lesser seasons also have less points.

We never had enough points to trade in Interval with a 2 br lockoff and get 2 reservations with 2 brs (but before we could pull a 2br and 1br) - because in our points system we could never "upgrade" in Interval (or internally). We always have to pay the points equivalent by unit size. I would think the Marriott points system works the same way. And within II, a lower Marriott season week can do it but may not have compete as well as a peak week. And Marriott weeks owners would still see the inventory before Hyatt would.

So we did have an unique advantage before within II. And within our system, 1 peak 2br week would only pull 3 peak studios. Or on peak 1br and one peak studio. Or one peak 2br. We can stretch for more lesser seasons and shorter stays, as can Marriott points owners. So the "advantage" we had in Interval was for people who were willing to stay in studios... (which is great for someone like Scoop who travels internationally).

I would argue that trading a lockoff using Marriott preference would have a better advantage than what we USED to have. And the inventory often nevers makes it to Hyatt owners.

 

[fleecer]

See post #12. Platinum should have a similar table.

Here's what I found in the II Buyer's Guide as a Welk Owner. There's nothing identifying a Platinum table breakout, and none of this makes immediate sense to me.
************

Collection Points Weekly Values

TDI

Range Studio 1-Bedroom 2-Bedroom 3-Bedroom 4/5-Bedroom

135 – 150 5,200 – 5,720 9,000 – 9,900 14,500 – 15,950 20,000 – 22,000 25,000 – 27,500

115 – 130 4,400 – 4,840 7,000 – 7,700 11,500 – 12,650 17,000 – 18,700 21,000 – 23,100

90 – 110 3,600 – 3,960 5,400 – 5,940 9,000 – 9,900 14,000 – 15,400 17,000 – 18,700

65 – 85 2,800 – 3,080 4,200 – 4,620 7,000 – 7,700 10,500 – 11,550 12,500 – 13,750

50 – 60 2,000 – 2,200 3,000 – 3,300 4,000 – 4,400 6,000 – 6,600 8,000 – 8,800

 

[Hindsite]

You are missing an important point.

So are you. Consider the MVC preference period to be the MVC internal weeks exchange platform, because that is what it is. They just happen to use II for that and don't have their own one, like other TS systems do. Imagine that they built their own like Hyatt have and that is why some inventory never gets to II for general release, same as it does for the internal exchange systems for other brands, and for the MVC Florida club, which was the trial MVC did for a weeks internal exchange platform.