New Point Requirements to Trade Hyatt in II?

[bnoble]

Travel Demand Index. It is II's way of trying to describe the supply and demand balance for units in a particular location for each week of the year. Here is an explanation:

US-travplan16

 

[ScoopKona]

What does TDI stand for?

Trade Demand Index. Up until two weeks ago, it's something that didn't apply to Hyatt owners. It's ridiculous because the TDI for Carmel, Maui, Key West, and even Sedona is always at/near the top. The TDI for the mountain ski and hike weeks is at the top. We're not getting any bonuses for owning high-demand, only-game-in-town resorts. We're just getting less than before because Marriott wants to sell more points to low-information consumers.

 

[Hindsite]

Delete

 

[Jon NJ]

Trade Demand Index. Up until two weeks ago, it's something that didn't apply to Hyatt owners. It's ridiculous because the TDI for Carmel, Maui, Key West, and even Sedona is always at/near the top. The TDI for the mountain ski and hike weeks is at the top. We're not getting any bonuses for owning high-demand, only-game-in-town resorts. We're just getting less than before because Marriott wants to sell more points to low-information consumers.

We own at Hacienda Del Mar since 2001 and have converted our points to II every year since they shut down the Cerromar Hotel and all its wonderful amenities. II provided an acceptable alternative.

Now we see further loss of value with the significant erosion of our II trading value. Kinda the straw that broke the camel’s back from where we sit.

i reviewed my purchase documents (from 2001) where we were provided an II points chart documenting our II trading power And there was NO mention of II/Hyatt having the right to change the EEE exchange program. Any lawyers in the group look at the legality of Hyatt/II’s change here?

Over the years we have seen our MF’s more than double, a significant loss in home resort amenities and now a devaluation of our II trading power. There must be a recourse here???

 

[ScoopKona]

Over the years we have seen our MF’s more than double, a significant loss in home resort amenities and now a devaluation of our II trading power. There must be a recourse here???

You signed a document that said Hyatt was allowed to change the plan (not your deeded ownership) at will. When I was selling these, I explained it as "we're allowed to monkey with the system."

In general, Hyatt monkeying was a good thing -- people got bumped from Copper and Bronze to gold as demand changed. Then Interval took over. And then Marriott took over.

 

[AJCts411]

New Hyatt brand marketing by MVW...pay more get less

 

[GTLINZ]

You signed a document that said Hyatt was allowed to change the plan (not your deeded ownership) at will.

That is the bottom line. I found it in the rules document before I bought into both HGVC and HRC and knew i was playing with fire (which under control is great).

I hate to see my suspicions come to fruition.

 

[Scavanjer]

It appears resales on Hyatt properties have increased and asking price has decreased in the past month, or is it my imagination? Probably a result of large annual MF increases and now II exchange devaluations….a bad combo

 

[AJCts411]

It appears resales on Hyatt properties have increased and asking price has decreased in the past month, or is it my imagination? Probably a result of large annual MF increases and now II exchange devaluations….a bad combo

I think it depends on which property. I have no data, but HSH there seems to be many long time owners who are at the time to sell stage, and a sprinkling of selling owners that trade more than use their week. Yes maintenance fees jumped due to Florida new bill (154), and the second strike inflation, now add in a corporation MVW that needs profits (not a criticism) we end up with these large increases, and devaluation of our properties/points in II. Only time will tell if this is a spike or steep slope on the cost graph.

 

[NWTRVLRS]

We had booked an E-Plus Retrade last year, which is good until 2025. I just tried to do a retrade and was advised I would need to have extra points to book from a 1 bedroom to a 1 bedroom for the time/place we want to trade into. So even retrades are seeing this new rule.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

We had booked an E-Plus Retrade last year, which is good until 2025. I just tried to do a retrade and was advised I would need to have extra points to book from a 1 bedroom to a 1 bedroom for the time/place we want to trade into. So even retrades are seeing this new rule.

That doesn't seem right especially for folks who don't have the extra points.

 

[ScoopKona]

That doesn't seem right especially for folks who don't have the extra points.

That actually makes perfect sense. Hyatt has always wanted to limit cancellations and rebookings because it's bad for overall business -- what may be inconvenient for the individual is a boon to the group as a whole.

The increase in resales? That's a bonus as far as Marriott is concerned. That means more chances for ROFR and more points for the Portfolio grist mill. Near as I can tell, that's the big Marriott strategy -- resell the same resorts over and over again. Sell, ROFR/foreclose, resell. It beats going through the bother of building actual resorts.

They could surprise me tomorrow and announce a slew of new properties in areas with no/few Timeshares currently. But I wouldn't bet the farm on that happening.

 

[jksung5295]

It appears resales on Hyatt properties have increased and asking price has decreased in the past month, or is it my imagination? Probably a result of large annual MF increases and now II exchange devaluations….a bad combo

I have been thinking about selling my weeks on/off for the last 3-4 years and selling prices have definitely gone down and the competition has been higher as well.

Now, i'm committed to selling off this week. Only way the math works for me is to keep exchanging into Disney and I feel like there are many other ways to accomplish that. Previously I could get my money's worth exchanging into Marriott as well but with 25-50% more points required. It definitely does not make sense for me anymore and it probably will be cheaper for me to pay cash.

 

[SteveinHNL]

I have been thinking about selling my weeks on/off for the last 3-4 years and selling prices have definitely gone down and the competition has been higher as well.

Now, i'm committed to selling off this week. Only way the math works for me is to keep exchanging into Disney and I feel like there are many other ways to accomplish that. Previously I could get my money's worth exchanging into Marriott as well but with 25-50% more points required. It definitely does not make sense for me anymore and it probably will be cheaper for me to pay cash.

If I understand correctly, you own at Hyatt Beach House in Florida, and the MFs are about $2300 this year. Not sure how many points you own, but unless it is 2,000 (Platinum) or 2,200 (Diamond), I agree the value proposition is a little on the grim side. The costs of owning Florida seem to have really increased due to hurricane, maintenance, and related legislative impacts. OTOH, since you already own this, and if doing Disney exchanges is still a good value proposition to you, that might be better than just jettisoning your Hyatt week? I know you mentioned there are other ways to do Disney exchanges, but since you already own this particular way, that is something to consider?

 

[heathpack]

That actually makes perfect sense. Hyatt has always wanted to limit cancellations and rebookings because it's bad for overall business -- what may be inconvenient for the individual is a boon to the group as a whole.

An EPlus exchange is not a cancellation and rebooking from the Hyatt perspective. Using Hyatt points in II is a one way street, and once the points have been moved to II it’s no skin off Hyatt‘s nose if that reservation is changed.

They may have never liked cancellations and rebooking in the Hyatt system (I really have no idea) but II seems to like EPlus just fine, and to consider it dandy for overall business.

The obviously fair solution is to use previous points charts for existing reservations made with the EPlus feature- because EPlus was bought to make retrading possible but the points reconfiguration has made that difficult to impossible. It’s not an “inconvenience” but rather something that is questionably legal- to sell someone a retrade feature and then make many or most retrades impossible, and the points associated with the reservation (if it can’t be used) worthless.

I‘m in the same boat as the poster whose concerns you’re so dismissive of. I have three interval reservations with EPlus, two of which I intended to retrade and now will have a hard time doing so. The sale of my Highlands Inn week fell out of escrow on account of Hyatts changes to the II points charts, and because there’s points left that were to go with the sale, I’m forced to keep the damn week a little longer in order to make my EPlus retrades. Then I have to figure out how to unload my week ideally in a manner such that Hyatt doesn’t get it back- because I really don’t want them screwing over their owners and benefitting from it.

Thank the lord that I sold my High Sierra week right before this happened!

 

[dioxide45]

An EPlus exchange is not a cancellation and rebooking from the Hyatt perspective. Using Hyatt points in II is a one way street, and once the points have been moved to II it’s no skin off Hyatt‘s nose if that reservation is changed.

They may have never liked cancellations and rebooking in the Hyatt system (I really have no idea) but II seems to like EPlus just fine, and to consider it dandy for overall business.

The obviously fair solution is to use previous points charts for existing reservations made with the EPlus feature- because EPlus was bought to make retrading possible but the points reconfiguration has made that difficult to impossible. It’s not an “inconvenience” but rather something that is questionably legal- to sell someone a retrade feature and then make many or most retrades impossible, and the points associated with the reservation (if it can’t be used) worthless.

I‘m in the same boat as the poster whose concerns you’re so dismissive of. I have three interval reservations with EPlus, two of which I intended to retrade and now will have a hard time doing so. The sale of my Highlands Inn week fell out of escrow on account of Hyatts changes to the II points charts, and because there’s points left that were to go with the sale, I’m forced to keep the damn week a little longer in order to make my EPlus retrades. Then I have to figure out how to unload my week ideally in a manner such that Hyatt doesn’t get it back- because I really don’t want them screwing over their owners and benefitting from it.

Thank the lord that I sold my High Sierra week right before this happened!

I would think that if you emailed Mark (II TUG Members Mailbox) that they may be willing to work with you on those retrades so they don't pull any more points. Not a guarantee, but definitely an avenue to explore. You would probably need to have a week ready to retrade into and it isn't as easy as just going online to do it yourself. At least it could be a viable option to use what you have.

 

[ScoopKona]

I‘m in the same boat as the poster whose concerns you’re so dismissive of. I have three interval reservations with EPlus,

I'm not happy with the changes either. And even though I don't use Eplus, it's just something else which is being taken away.

However, I learned how the Hyatt system worked from the people who designed the system. I was told "why things are" every time I was told a rule. This allowed me to formulate responses for objections. The people who set the system up wanted no procrastination, no changes, and no cancellations. And they were happy to let owners lose their entire year and the maintenance fee if they procrastinated or canceled at the last minute. Bad for the individual -- great for everyone else.

That's always been their operational philosophy.

 

[heathpack]

I would think that if you emailed Mark (II TUG Members Mailbox) that they may be willing to work with you on those retrades so they don't pull any more points. Not a guarantee, but definitely an avenue to explore. You would probably need to have a week ready to retrade into and it isn't as easy as just going online to do it yourself. At least it could be a viable option to use what you have.

I might try that, it’s a good thought. I considered just abandoning the two weeks I was intending to retrade and trying to recoup my costs somewhat by requesting II refund my exchange and Eplus fees. But the MF associated with those points are not insignificant and I’d rather use the weeks if I can.

 

[heathpack]

I'm not happy with the changes either. And even though I don't use Eplus, it's just something else which is being taken away.

However, I learned how the Hyatt system worked from the people who designed the system. I was told "why things are" every time I was told a rule. This allowed me to formulate responses for objections. The people who set the system up wanted no procrastination, no changes, and no cancellations. And they were happy to let owners lose their entire year and the maintenance fee if they procrastinated or canceled at the last minute. Bad for the individual -- great for everyone else.

That's always been their operational philosophy.

Right- But once the II exchange is done, changes to the exchange no longer affect Hyatt. So your rationale as to why Hyatt is keen to screw folks with EPlus II exchanges makes zero sense. EPlus changes have nothing to do with Hyatt, and it’s confusing to folks with a lesser degree of knowledge for you to be suggesting (based on your “insider information”) that they do. Hyatt I’m sure never had much of an operational philosophy as to what II did with II exchanges.

 

[ScoopKona]

Right- But once the II exchange is done, changes to the exchange no longer affect Hyatt. So your rationale as to why Hyatt is keen to screw folks with EPlus II exchanges makes zero sense. EPlus changes have nothing to do with Hyatt, and it’s confusing to folks with a lesser degree of knowledge for you to be suggesting (based on your “insider information”) that they do. Hyatt I’m sure never had much of an operational philosophy as to what II did with II exchanges.

Why? Because trading for less points, canceling and then rebooking a more-expensive week is, to Hyatt, like eating pork sausages with beer in Mecca during Ramadan.

 

[heathpack]

Why? Because trading for less points, canceling and then rebooking a more-expensive week is, to Hyatt, like eating pork sausages with beer in Mecca during Ramadan.

Yes absolutely, that makes total sense. What was I thinking?

 

[ScoopKona]

Yes absolutely, that makes total sense. What was I thinking?

As far as they're concerned, it's the same as owning a Bronze week and trading it in II for a Diamond Hyatt week (which was never possible). But that's their big-picture viewpoint. It now costs more. Everyone will pay it, no exceptions. Bad for the individual. Not particularly good for the rest, either. But better than special rights for some.

 

[heathpack]

As far as they're concerned, it's the same as owning a Bronze week and trading it in II for a Diamond Hyatt week (which was never possible). But that's their big-picture viewpoint. It now costs more. Everyone will pay it, no exceptions. Bad for the individual. Not particularly good for the rest, either. But better than special rights for some.

As I said- yes absolutely. You are correct in all matters Hyatt and you are the only one who knows anything. Congratulations.

 

[heathpack]

Now @ScoopKona why don’t you repeat yourself again for those in the back who might not have heard you?

 

[ScoopKona]

Now @ScoopKona why don’t you repeat yourself again for those in the back who might not have heard you?

Because I know the deal that Hyatt and II originally had. The point totals were not random. They were Hyatt's demand to join II. In exchange, they offered up II membership with every week owned. II wanted the revenue. Hyatt wanted lopsided trade power for their owners. I consider that a win -- but people who stay at their resort every year have every right to disagree. They're paying for a "feature" that has zero benefit to them