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New Data Suggest the Coronavirus Isn’t as Deadly as We Thought

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TravelTime

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I read that the Stanford researchers are re-doing their study. It is too bad that their study had so many holes in it as it has hurt their credibility. Plus many people do not want these results to be true. The authors said they have been the black sheep of the research community, even before the study was released.

I suspect it might still be accurate since other locations (LA, NYC, Germany and others) that have done these types of studies have had similar results and/or even higher immunity rates. Plus all the experts are saying the virus may have been circulating in Santa Clara county as early as January, maybe sooner. It makes sense that more people in Santa Clara County may have had the virus already given what the experts are uncovering here.

This is simply an anecdotal observation. My DH works in Santa Clara County. He was really sick for 3 weeks in February. He said everyone at work was sick. He had an upper respiratory virus that could have actually been Covid. Fortunately I did not get it.
 
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DannyTS

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Can these studies be improved? Probably but even if they had a 50% false positive (and salon.com has no evidence of that), we are still talking about a lot of people who already had the virus.
Governor Cuomo announced 20% infection rate in NYC, Sweden 20% as well. Are they all wrong and those that stay at home critiquing them right?

We were told to rely on science. As perfectible as these studies are, they are a lot more scientific than the data we based our initial decisions on.
 

MrockStar

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This is some interesting information from Talkspace, an online therapy program. It shows how people's concerns are evolving from worry about the virus and health to finances and relationship issues due to the shut downs.

Talkspace, which connects users to therapists via video and text, says it has seen a 65% rise in demand. As the pandemic grinds on, the company is seeing people’s concerns change: Initially, many users had intense anxiety about the virus and their and their loved ones’ health, says Neil Leibowitz, the company’s chief medical officer. That has shifted to worries about finances. More recently, relationship issues have come to the fore. “People aren’t used to spending so much time together,” Dr. Leibowitz says.​
Iam still working full time, away from home, however my better half is a teacher and working from home. We get along very well, but have noticed this is affecting us ad well. I need a VACATION !!!
 

TravelTime

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Iam still working full time, away from home, however my better half is a teacher and working from home. We get along very well, but have noticed this is affecting us ad well. I need a VACATION !!!

We are lucky that we have a very large home. My DH goes downstairs into the big wine cellar that we converted into his office. I work upstairs in my office. My DH takes the 3 dogs with him and only comes out for lunch and to walk the dogs. He works from 7:30 am until 5 pm consistently. So I do not really see him during the day. I like that he is home 24/7 even if I do not see him during the day. We are able to have dinner together at a decent time. I like that a lot. We get along really well and I enjoy his company. So no relationship problems for us. The SIP has actually increased my happiness in terms of having my DH close by all the time. He is the love of my life and I like having him close by, especially in these difficult times.
 

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Dr. Deborah Birx said that “social distancing will be with us through the summer to really ensure that we protect one another as we move through these phases.



To think the general public will continue this that long, is simply wishful thinking. :rolleyes:
 

TravelTime

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Dr. Deborah Birx said that “social distancing will be with us through the summer to really ensure that we protect one another as we move through these phases.



To think the general public will continue this that long, is simply wishful thinking. :rolleyes:

Social distancing is different than shut downs. I suspect many people will still try to practice social distancing when they go out. Most businesses will be putting social distancing rules in place before re-opening, if they are smart. I know I will not re-open my office after the shut downs end. But that is mostly due to liability. I do not want to get sued if one of my employees or clients gets Covid-19. If the government passes a law saying business owners are not liable for Covid-19 unless it is intentional, I might have a different opinion.
 

Luanne

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Dr. Deborah Birx said that “social distancing will be with us through the summer to really ensure that we protect one another as we move through these phases.



To think the general public will continue this that long, is simply wishful thinking. :rolleyes:
Or maybe the general public who care about themselves and others will.
 

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I would like to compare Sweden with the province of Quebec, Canada.

Quebec has had very strict rules including closed restaurants, bars, schools, parks, all non-essential businesses and has given tickets to enforce the rules when necessary. According to Google’s COVID-19 Community Mobility Report, Quebec has one of the highest rates of compliance in North America and people did stay home during the past month as requested.

Quebec has a similar climate with Sweden, a comparable population size. Both have universal health care and very strong social programs. Despite the very restrictive measures in Quebec, the numbers are not that different..



Situation in Québec

April 26th, 2020, 13:15

Confirmed cases

24 107

Negative cases

171 470

Number of hospitalizations

1 518

Number of deaths

1 515



Sweden

Confirmed cases

18640

Number of deaths

2194
 
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VacationForever

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Social distancing is different than shut downs. I suspect many people will still try to practice social distancing when they go out. Most businesses will be putting social distancing rules in place before re-opening, if they are smart. I know I will not re-open my office after the shut downs end. But that is mostly due to liability. I do not want to get sued if one of my employees or clients gets Covid-19. If the government passes a law saying business owners are not liable for Covid-19 unless it is intentional, I might have a different opinion.
A business owner can never be too careful about liability and getting sued. One of the "perks" of being a business owner and employer. I would do the same if I were to be in your position.
 

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Or maybe the general public who care about themselves and others will.

And therein lies the problem. All one needs to do is look at the beaches that have opened. I've seen it every day in person just driving. You can look in the background at a live news story. These are the people who flaunt the science and if or when getting the virus, bring it to others. I believe it will only get worse as months go by. Obviously people question their rights being taken and the longer this goes on, more and more will also do so.
 

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This is simply an anecdotal observation. My DH works in Santa Clara County. He was really sick for 3 weeks in February. He said everyone at work was sick. He had an upper respiratory virus that could have actually been Covid. Fortunately I did not get it.
I know the "official scientists" want to knock this, and that the sample wasn't representative-but even if only 50% are actually true that's still alot of people who had this like you said. And it means the amount of mild illness is way way higher than estimated, then the Asymptomatic should be higher as well. The "experts" tell us to rely on science-except when it goes against their dug in position. I don't know what poster put it as the politicians are now vested in being proven "right" with the lockdown and wreckage of global economy. It will be interesting the next few weeks as things slowly open up. If severe spikes don't happen the media will lose interest.
 

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I know the "official scientists" want to knock this, and that the sample wasn't representative-but even if only 50% are actually true that's still alot of people who had this like you said. And it means the amount of mild illness is way way higher than estimated, then the Asymptomatic should be higher as well. The "experts" tell us to rely on science-except when it goes against their dug in position. I don't know what poster put it as the politicians are now vested in being proven "right" with the lockdown and wreckage of global economy. It will be interesting the next few weeks as things slowly open up. If severe spikes don't happen the media will lose interest.

We should all be hoping that when things start slowly opening up, that the covid cases and deaths do not spike significantly. That would be great news and save many lives. It is still beyond my understanding as to why the experts and many in the general public want this to be a catastrophe.
 

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And therein lies the problem. All one needs to do is look at the beaches that have opened. I've seen it every day in person just driving. You can look in the background at a live news story. These are the people who flaunt the science and if or when getting the virus, bring it to others. I believe it will only get worse as months go by. Obviously people question their rights being taken and the longer this goes on, more and more will also do so.
or we could stop the virtue signaling that people who are out are "selfish" because the local government said they could. Especially as more evidence comes out how deeply flawed the original models were, and more evidence comes out that a higher percent of population has already been exposed-especially as the "models" havent bothered to update themselves with the FIRST CONFIRMED death WEEKS before the models start.
 

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doctors are starting to speak out more and more and question the CDC approach
Dr. Daniel W. Erickson of Bakersfield, California, is a former emergency-room physician who co-owns, with his partner Dr. Artin Massih, Accelerated Urgent Care in Bakersfield. They are interviewed by a hostile reporter.

 

Luanne

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Panina

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Social distancing is different than shut downs. I suspect many people will still try to practice social distancing when they go out. Most businesses will be putting social distancing rules in place before re-opening, if they are smart. I know I will not re-open my office after the shut downs end. But that is mostly due to liability. I do not want to get sued if one of my employees or clients gets Covid-19. If the government passes a law saying business owners are not liable for Covid-19 unless it is intentional, I might have a different opinion.
Sadly many will not practice social distancing. My state opened phase 1 and if the rest of the US does what I am seeing by me the numbers will rise again. Stores are not practicing the limit allowed in stores, in jam packed parking lots I have noticed only a few wearing mask, in my neighborhood neighbors are not social distancing, they are within inches talking and even two resident just planned a block party early May with open buffet.

I just don't understand why people don't get it.
 

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What is scaring the *bleep* out of me are these reports of young people who are barely sick with COVID-19 having strokes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

And if you can't get to the Washington Post article, here is another one:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-deaths-symptoms-covid-19-heart-a9484091.html


I am not sure I understand your point. People die for a lot of reasons at all ages, the risk of dying is not zero at any age. Did WP found something that we do not know or this is another scare tactic?

1587937678021.png



"Strokes can and do occur at ANY age. Nearly one fourth of strokes occur in people under the age of 65. "
 

Luanne

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I am not sure I understand your point. People die for a lot of reasons at all ages, the risk of dying is not zero at any age. Did WP found something that we do not know or this is another scare tactic?

Do I have to have a point? This scares me. Shows there is still a lot we don't know. Part of what scares me is that these are young people, like the ages of my daughters. Another thing is that they weren't very sick. Here is another article where they are indicating that COVID-19 appears to be causing the strokes. This was from a doctor at Mt. Sinai. And dh found an article, which I can find now where a surgeon was saying that as he was removing one clot another was forming.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html
 

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Part of what scares me is that these are young people, like the ages of my daughters. Another thing is that they weren't very sick. Here is another article where they are indicating that COVID-19 appears to be causing the strokes. This was from a doctor at Mt. Sinai. And dh found an article, which I can find now where a surgeon was saying that as he was removing one clot another was forming.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html
on one hand we are told to listen to science. On the other hand now we have to listen to anecdotal evidence. I actually know someone who had a stroke 2 years ago, he was 43 at the time and "perfectly healthy" As I quoted before:

"Strokes can and do occur at ANY age. Nearly one fourth of strokes occur in people under the age of 65. "

 

Luanne

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on one hand we are told to listen to science. On the other hand now we have to listen to anecdotal evidence. I actually know someone who had a stroke 2 years ago, he was 43 at the time and "perfectly healthy" As I quoted before:

"Strokes can and do occur at ANY age. Nearly one fourth of strokes occur in people under the age of 65. "

Forget it. I feel like I am getting beat up every time I post something.

You can have your thoughts and data and I can have my fears and "anecdotal evidence". I guess doctors don't qualify as scientific advice any longer.
 

TravelTime

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Doctors generally provide advice based on their clinical experience unless they have done a randomly controlled sample test or are using evidence-based findings to give advice. Doctors are just humans with a little more medical knowledge than most. There is a difference between medical professionals and scientists.
 
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Panina

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What is scaring the *bleep* out of me are these reports of young people who are barely sick with COVID-19 having strokes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

And if you can't get to the Washington Post article, here is another one:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-deaths-symptoms-covid-19-heart-a9484091.html
I can definitely understand your concern. I am thinking that due to more stress because of Covid-19 other factors then just the virus are contributing to increase of strokes such as stress due to being scared, the unknown, loss of job, etc. Add the covid-19 on top of stress related illnesses and it is just too much for the body.
 

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There are reports of young people with no underlying conditions dying. However, you need to look at the statistics and make sure you are looking at unbiased reports. The statistics still show that young people without underlying conditions are in the minority.
 

Luanne

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There are reports of young people with no underlying conditions dying. However, you need to look at the statistics and make sure you are looking at unbiased reports. The statistics still show that young people without underlying conditions are in the minority.
Hey, it doesn't take much to make me concerned, or scared.
 

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Forget it. I feel like I am getting beat up every time I post something.

You can have your thoughts and data and I can have my fears and "anecdotal evidence". I guess doctors don't qualify as scientific advice any longer.

Yes, they do, Luanne! It may not seem like it sometimes when so many with no medical education or experience want to drown out the experts, but, they do matter. And, I believe a big majority of us are listening to them and the factual data, not to the writers of unsubstantiated opinions.
 
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