New Data Suggest the Coronavirus Isn’t as Deadly as We Thought

[Rolltydr]

...and be willing to critically examine one's own views.

I agree and the last part is what gets most of us. I read op-ed pieces by people I don’t necessarily agree with. BUT, and it is a big BUT with me, they have to come with facts and evidence to support their opinion. I don‘t really care what anyone thinks as long as they can tell me why and support it with more than just that’s what they believe. It’s like me saying I think the Miami Dolphins are going to win the Super Bowl in 2050. So? I have nothing to back up that thinking so why would anyone care what I think? I will, or I at least will try, to examine my views as long as you give me a reason to do so.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Read this today and really thought it hit the nail on the head......

We are not in the same boat
Something to think about... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME BOAT ... I heard that we are all in the same boat, but it's not like that. We are in the same storm, but not in the same boat. Your ship could be shipwrecked and mine might not be. Or vice versa.

For some, quarantine is optimal. A moment of reflection, of re-connection, easy in flip flops, with a cocktail or coffee. For others, this is a desperate financial & family crisis. For some that live alone they're facing endless loneliness. While for others it is peace, rest & time with their mother, father, sons & daughters.

With the $600 weekly increase in unemployment some are bringing in more money to their households than they were working. Others are working more hours for less money due to pay cuts or loss in sales.

Some families of 4 just received $3400 from the stimulus while other families of 4 saw $0. Some were concerned about getting a certain candy for Easter while others were concerned if there would be enough bread, milk and eggs for the weekend.

Some want to go back to work because they don't qualify for unemployment and are running out of money. Others want to kill those who break the quarantine.

Some are home spending 2-3 hours/day helping their child with online schooling while others are spending 2-3 hours/day to educate their children on top of a 10-12 hour workday.

Some have experienced the near death of the virus, some have already lost someone from it and some are not sure if their loved ones are going to make it. Others don't believe this is a big deal.

Some have faith in God and expect miracles during this 2020. Others say the worst is yet to come.

So, friends, we are not in the same boat. We are going through a time when our perceptions and needs are completely different. Each of us will emerge, in our own way, from this storm. It is very important to see beyond what is seen at first glance. Not just looking, actually seeing. We are all on different ships during this storm experiencing a very different journey.

Unknown author #DontJudgeOthers

I love this. It is so true. We are retired and enjoy pension and Medicare (now that we are both 65, which just happened recently). We have kids who are all devastated by this virus. I can easily see our son losing his house, and maybe both of our sons will lose their homes. We are frantically getting rid of stuff, in case our son and his family need to move into our home. Our house is paid off, so we don't have to worry.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Careful, you'll be mocked as a fool and deny-er for even posting an alternative thought.

Yep, and I thought the article was spot on, so I guess that is also me.

 

[Monykalyn]

DD was born in 1987. Was diagnosed with asthma about 3 yo. We would use a nebulizer when she got a cold. We called it "The Cloud". I had her in a Ladies Room at a restaurant when I heard someone light a cigarette in the next stall. So glad cigarette smoking has been banned in restaurants.

Me too! and banned on hospital grounds here. Hope your DD is doing well!

 

[easyrider]

the WSJ "good news" article was marked View attachment 19633

plenty of opinions in these pandemic times
(including using disinfectants)

What I am refering to is the studies that were recently completed in California that after testing reveals that many more people than they estimated actually had and recovered from covid 19. These two studies prove that by under reporting the cases of covid 19 and over reporting the covid 19 deaths , the reported death rate is much higher. ................. But lets keep using the CDC models, that have been proven wrong and show a very high death rate to make policy that impacts our lives. Certainly, most news outlets will keep their bias in favor of the CDC.

Then there is the hydrochoriquin zpak treatment that many doctors have used with success. The news reports that is only accedontal and is dangerous even as many people have recovered from covid 19 from the use.

Instead , the CDC and many others are pushing for a vacine. The time line for a vacine is about 12 -18 months. There are many political reasons why some groups would rather wait for the vacine instead of using a treatment.

Bill

 

[TravelTime]

the WSJ "good news" article was marked View attachment 19633

plenty of opinions in these pandemic times
(including using disinfectants)

This is not intended just for you but I am replying to your post since it mentions this topic. This has been discussed many times on TUG.

Here is my opinion on Opinion pieces:

Just because something is mentioned in an Opinion piece does not make it an opinion. What the author writes about the study is his opinion but the study is still something that happened that is being reported on. It is possible that the study is not good or gets disputed later on or it might be supported by other studies. It is still scientific inquiry that is progressing the field, regardless of the results or whether it is mentioned in an Opinion piece. For the immunity studies, there have now been many done in Santa Clara County, Los Angeles, Germany and other places. They are getting similar results that the percentage of people with the virus is much higher than projected and the mortality rate is lower than projected. This is not yet a “fact” but with more studies, eventually science will get to the facts. I think if people dismiss an opinion article simply because it says Opinion at the top, then they are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Quilter]

Me too! and banned on hospital grounds here. Hope your DD is doing well!

She is. She grew up to be an ER and post op nurse.

 

[DannyTS]

If anyone else likes Bill Maher, this is an interview with Dr. David Katz who wrote the op ed in the NYT "Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?"

 

[Gypsy65]

I love this. It is so true. We are retired and enjoy pension and Medicare (now that we are both 65, which just happened recently). We have kids who are all devastated by this virus. I can easily see our son losing his house, and maybe both of our sons will lose their homes. We are frantically getting rid of stuff, in case our son and his family need to move into our home. Our house is paid off, so we don't have to worry.

have your sons been in contact with their banks etc??

we have been involved with real estate for years and I’m thinking that one thing that banks don’t want at any price is to take a home back
Not when there is the possibility of the market getting flooded with foreclosures and the ability to re sell them to others either in the same situation or those who are holding on to their finances

 

[Brett]

This is not intended just for you but I am replying to your post since it mentions this topic. This has been discussed many times on TUG.

Here is my opinion on Opinion pieces:

Just because something is mentioned in an Opinion piece does not make it an opinion. What the author writes about the study is his opinion but the study is still something that happened that is being reported on. It is possible that the study is not good or gets disputed later on or it might be supported by other studies. It is still scientific inquiry that is progressing the field, regardless of the results or whether it is mentioned in an Opinion piece. For the immunity studies, there have now been many done in Santa Clara County, Los Angeles, Germany and other places. They are getting similar results that the percentage of people with the virus is much higher than projected and the mortality rate is lower than projected. This is not yet a “fact” but with more studies, eventually science will get to the facts. I think if people dismiss an opinion article simply because it says Opinion at the top, then they are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

My opinion on Opinion pieces:
too often someone here posts an opinion piece or a "study" claiming it's fact. Then someone else points to another opinion that seems to show the opposite
It's fine to read them but maybe not appropriate for posting to the TUG lounge .... but hey - I'm certainly no moderator !!

 

[x3 skier]

Opinions and studies are two different animals.

If the study assumptions and how it was conducted are reported accurately (usually but not always true), then the results should be considered accurate. Of course there’s always a possibility of academic fraud. This can be minimized by peer reviews and similar studies with similar results.

When someone then states what it means for a decision or applicability to a different set of circumstances, that’s an opinion.

As many have said in one way or another,
Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
— Bernard Baruch

Cheers

 

[Maple_Leaf]

According to WaPo getting infected with coronavirus increases morbidity from strokes and blood clots.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/?utm_campaign

 

[Monykalyn]

According to WaPo getting infected with coronavirus increases morbidity from strokes and blood clots.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/?utm_campaign

This isn't new for infections though
From 1999

Review: Infectious Diseases and Coagulation Disorders

Abstract. Infection, both bacterial and nonbacterial, may be associated with coagulation disorders, resulting in disseminated intravascular coagulation and

academic.oup.com

Severe stress can also cause blood pressure problems-leading to clots as well. This situation is almost a perfect storm of stress/infection....
Also-thanks to alarming media headlines this struck me as ominous, and perhaps why the cases are among the younger and severe:
"Oxley, the interventional neurologist, said one striking aspect of the cases is how long many waited before seeking emergency care." They were afraid of contracting Covid19!

 

[Monykalyn]

If anyone else likes Bill Maher, this is an interview with Dr. David Katz who wrote the op ed in the NYT "Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?"

not a huge fan of Maher but this was a pretty good interview, especially the end where he promotes healthy lifestyles. Thanks for sharing

 

[Maple_Leaf]

This isn't new for infections though

So, probably just another good reason to avoid any infections, including COVID-19.

 

[Monykalyn]

So, probably just another good reason to avoid any infections, including COVID-19.

Or if you do get sick to not delay diagnosis and treatment

 

[TravelTime]

not a huge fan of Maher but this was a pretty good interview, especially the end where he promotes healthy lifestyles. Thanks for sharing

The part about healthy lifestyles was rather funny. Maybe covid will scare people into eating healthy and exercising? Good luck! Heart disease, diabetes, cancer and hypertension has not worked yet.

 

[TravelTime]

The other thing about opinion vs news articles. News articles can also be biased based on the headlines, the content selected for the article, who is quoted, and what part of the “facts” the reporters choose to report on.

 

[DannyTS]

The part about healthy lifestyles was rather funny. Maybe covid will scare people into eating healthy and exercising? Good luck! Heart disease, diabetes, cancer and hypertension has not worked yet.

We can all do more for our health, maybe some people should see this as a wake up call. He mentioned that you can get an immunity boost right away (hours and days) with better nutrition and exercising.

 

[Gypsy65]

The part about healthy lifestyles was rather funny. Maybe covid will scare people into eating healthy and exercising? Good luck! Heart disease, diabetes, cancer and hypertension has not worked yet.

I just want to see people washing their hands on a regular basis. Especially after using a restroom
It is disgusting how many people NEVER wash
The other day I watched a guy brushing his teeth in a public restroom and set his toothbrush on the nasty wet counter

I don’t even set mine on my own counter in my own home or keep it in the bathroom

 

[WVBaker]

So, probably just another good reason to avoid any infections, including COVID-19.

As there are countless ways to acquire an infection, I doubt there is anyone living that can "avoid any infections".

 

[Monykalyn]

The other day I watched a guy brushing his teeth in a public restroom and set his toothbrush on the nasty wet counter

That made me gag! I've got large supply of tooth brushes (new) as when someone gets sick the toothbrush is tossed. its tossed again when better and start a fresh one. Mouth/gum health is underrated-especially with links to so many chronic diseases.

 

[TravelTime]

This is some interesting information from Talkspace, an online therapy program. It shows how people's concerns are evolving from worry about the virus and health to finances and relationship issues due to the shut downs.

Talkspace, which connects users to therapists via video and text, says it has seen a 65% rise in demand. As the pandemic grinds on, the company is seeing people’s concerns change: Initially, many users had intense anxiety about the virus and their and their loved ones’ health, says Neil Leibowitz, the company’s chief medical officer. That has shifted to worries about finances. More recently, relationship issues have come to the fore. “People aren’t used to spending so much time together,” Dr. Leibowitz says.​

 

[Sugarcubesea]

have your sons been in contact with their banks etc??

we have been involved with real estate for years and I’m thinking that one thing that banks don’t want at any price is to take a home back
Not when there is the possibility of the market getting flooded with foreclosures and the ability to re sell them to others either in the same situation or those who are holding on to their finances

RickandCindy23, I echo saying to have your kids talk to the mortgage company holding their loans...

Back in 2008, when the Great Recession hit Michigan, by the time 2009 rolled in, my subdivision had 79 homes in bankruptcy or foreclosure... Both of my neighbors on either side of me stopped paying their mortgage in 2008 (when both spouses lost their jobs) and were not forced to move out of the homes till 2011 when the market started getting better in MI. The mortgage companies made deals with them that if they kept the house up and cut the grass, shoveled the snow, kept the utilities on (as our sub has penalties from the city) they could stay in the house. Both sets of neighbors came out the recession and went on to move to other states and were able to get mortgages years later.

Mortgage lenders can not have millions of homes sitting vacant and vandalized they will most likely work out a deal.

 

[queenofthehive]

“Authors owe us all an apology”: Experts doubt Stanford antibody study

A study estimating that there were 85 times the reported number of cases in Santa Clara County is an example of "how NOT to do statistics," experts say.

www.salon.com