Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) purchase of Interval Leisure Group (ILG) discussion!

[JIMinNC]

So many unknowns at this time regarding the acquisition of ILG. We own in both worlds and love the quality of the Vistana properties (I don’t care what they call it the quality of the units are better than some Marriotts. We love Kierland, Palm Desert and Kanapali. We’ve got some decissions to make regardless of the acquisition.

Just completed one of the least stressful presentations at Marriott in Marbella. Our sales Associate, Clifford, was pleasant straight forward and made us what we felt was one of the best offers we’ve ever scene by a developer. As urgent Marriott owners we we offered the following:
1) Membership in Destination Club at the executive level. (We opted not to join when the program was first implemented) Our current property has a value of 4950 points.
2) Two bedroom property here in silver week with a value of 2225 points.
3) maintenance fee was about $1300/year.
4) Regular price: $21990: $09.9/point; current owner discount price: $14235: 06.4/point;Special promotional price: $12,200: 05.5/point.
5) 10% down due within 15 days.
6) One year financing at 5%

This seems like a very good deal. I’m not sure I can buy after market points at that price point.

Anyone have any insights into what after market points sell for?

What’s the real value of Executive membership?

Also wondering if it’s a good idea to switch to destination club now whether we purchase or not?

We also own two weeks in VST, Palm Desert (53,600) and St John (196,000). So we are points rich in that regard.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Seems like a very efficient way to get to Executive. You are correct that $5.50 per point is cheaper than what it would cost on the secondary resale market. With Marriott activation fees on resale points, you would likely pay at least $6 to $7/point on the after market. Just be sure to verify the maintenance fee on the Silver Marbella week and make sure it is not significantly higher than the $0.553 maintenance fee on DC Trust Points. If the maintenance fee on your silver week is the $1239 that is shown in the 2018 maintenance fee thread, that is $0.557 per point for the 2225 points, almost the same as Trust points. So this would indeed be a sweet deal to get 2225 points for $12.2K and only a $0.56 maintenance fee per point. One of the best I've seen reported.

In my opinion, the real value of Executive is access to booking shorter than 7 night stays at 13 months out, plus 13 month access to the Ritz properties. Getting to Executive cost effectively is our main goal as well.

And just to clarify something you said in your next to last line...you do not "switch" to the Destination Club when you enroll your existing week. When you enroll, you can still use your week as you always have at your home resort or trade it in II. All enrollment does is ADD the option to exchange it for DC points in any given year and use points instead. One year you may decide to elect for points, one year you may decide to use your home resort, and another year you an decide to deposit your week in II and trade.

 

[Steve A]

I have been a Marriott timeshare owner since 2001. I’ve seen lots of changes. I’ve never drank the Marriott Kool-Aid. Let’s be clear, changes in the system are designed to make the Marriotts’ richer. Any benefits to us are purely by happenstance.

 

[Steve Fatula]

So many unknowns at this time regarding the acquisition of ILG. We own in both worlds and love the quality of the Vistana properties (I don’t care what they call it the quality of the units are better than some Marriotts. We love Kierland, Palm Desert and Kanapali. We’ve got some decissions to make regardless of the acquisition.

Just completed one of the least stressful presentations at Marriott in Marbella. Our sales Associate, Clifford, was pleasant straight forward and made us what we felt was one of the best offers we’ve ever scene by a developer. As urgent Marriott owners we we offered the following:
1) Membership in Destination Club at the executive level. (We opted not to join when the program was first implemented) Our current property has a value of 4950 points.
2) Two bedroom property here in silver week with a value of 2225 points.
3) maintenance fee was about $1300/year.
4) Regular price: $21990: $09.9/point; current owner discount price: $14235: 06.4/point;Special promotional price: $12,200: 05.5/point.

If I understand correctly, you have a pre 2010 week. That week is not currently enrolled. There have been offers lately to be able to enroll such weeks for free. That being the case, what they are essentially selling you is a silver resale week, and, enrolling it. For a silver resale week at Marbella, that's very expensive. But, if you feel the value is there for the points aspect, go for it. Understand you could always enroll your week for free, and then merely purchase points on the resale market as you need them for 65c/pt or so. The gain would be no upfront money at all. The loss would be no executive level. Executive has a few perks like using points very cheaply within 30 days of the stay, and, the ability to often arrange for less than a weeks stay. I agree with JimInNC that the per point cost is very cheap.

 

[JIMinNC]

Well here's my first reaction. . .Make friends.

Hello to all my Vistana and Hyatt friends. Want to come over for a cuppa?

If getting into these new options means buying points I'm planning to stay with the MVC properties that are near and dear to my heart.

The sales department's mission is to make you think you NEED to buy. At this stage I'm not feeling compelled to buy anything and I'm confident I'll be able to vacation just fine without doing so.

While I think it's way too early to really speculate on what we might do as a result of the merger, since we have no idea what the post-merger landscape will even look like, or what offers the new company might make to participate in the expanded network, I will take the opposite side of this question as a different perspective.

Ever since we bought our resale Maui Ocean Club week a few months ago, I've said if we were ever offered one of the promotions where a points purchase allowed us to enroll any previously un-enrollable week(s), I would be really tempted to do so. If, such a purchase would also give us access to some sort of an expanded exchange network that includes the Westin and Hyatt locations, that would make me even more interested. Being able to alternate between MOC and the Westin resorts on Maui, having access to the Westin in Princeville, the new Westin in Los Cabos, the Westin St John, Harbourside Atlantis, the Hyatts in Key West, Carmel, and Sedona, among other locations, would almost guarantee that we need a lot more points than we have today. However I slice it and dice it, if I need more points, it's going to cost me money, so the important thing becomes "what is my all-in cost per point?" If the new VAC would ever put an offer on the table that would enroll any un-enrollable weeks I might own at the time, plus give me more points to spend at Marriott, Westin, and Hyatt resorts, and if that resulted in a blended cost per point of the new trust points plus the enrolled points of less than about $7/point or so with an attractive MF/point cost, I would be hard-pressed to turn that down. If it were as attractive as the per point costs quoted just above in post #73 by iqmavin, I would be really excited.

Obviously, the devil will be in the details when and if some sort of an expanded exchange program is announced, but given that it's likely that any such program will be points-based rather than weeks-based, I think this will make owning/controlling an adequate number of points more important.

 

[Pathways]

If I understand correctly, you have a pre 2010 week. That week is not currently enrolled. There have been offers lately to be able to enroll such weeks for free. That being the case, what they are essentially selling you is a silver resale week, and, enrolling it. For a silver resale week at Marbella, that's very expensive.

I guess that's where I was going - if you are only buying the silver week for points, I would consider not just the buy-in but also the exit. That Marbella silver is almost a give-away to unload, whereas the resale points have (as of today) only a 3.00/p loss. (B/C of the junk fees)

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I can speculate as well as the next person. . .

Here's my most likely scenario, and why.
A brand new "super DC" trust/club. Access to this club will be by joining with your points, and/or existing non-point weeks. There will be a fee to join, and there will be a skim. The "Super DC" will have weeks from all systems in it, whereas the existing points based systems for all prior groups will only have access to that old system's pool. As people join the new "Super DC", their "ownership" fraction will transfer to the new "Super DC", shrinking the old ownership pool. For early seeding, I suspect that post 2010 Marriott weeks will be allowed to join, probably in a restrictive manner, with equivalent deals for the other merged timeshare groups.

Why.
Trying to merge all the disparate groups, from a legal sense, would be a nightmarish task. Better to start a new super pool that all the old point pools could feed into. That way each system could have a custom conversion deal, as best fits the legal landscape. Since most point owners don't have a one-to-one ownership correspondence with the underlying weeks, that should not be a problem. With shrinking old point pools and therefore shrinking inventory, there will be both a carrot (all system access) and the stick (shrinking old pools) to convince people to join the new "Super DC". Once set up, all new sales will be for the "Super DC" only.

This is all speculation, of course. But it would provide a clear path to the future, and an easier way to incorporate new systems as they are acquired.

 

[AlmostRetired]

I can speculate as well as the next person. . .

Here's my most likely scenario, and why.
For early seeding, I suspect that post 2010 Marriott weeks will be allowed to join, probably in a restrictive manner, with equivalent deals for the other merged timeshare groups.
.

I believe you are 100% correct.

Has there been a recent posted update to the deeded weeks in the trust? I think you still find that a significant majority of the inventory for platinum and "valuable" gold weeks are still outside the trust. Whatever strategy is used to consolidate or rationalize the point systems, you will need more inventory if that strategy includes access to Marriott timeshares. I think that there will be a line drawn in the sand that will give legacy status to all weeks pre that line. This will again require a fee but not require the purchase of additional DP's. It will be the only way to get additional Marriott timeshare inventory. The fee will also provide a short term cash inflow.

If Marriott is still not exercising RORF at the Grand Chateau and I can convince my wife, I might look to pick up an EOY 3 BR. The price is worth the risk. If they do not allow enrollment, I have been very happy (maybe lucky) with breaking up and trading my EOY 2 BR so the risk in minimized.

 

[Superchief]

I can speculate as well as the next person. . .

Here's my most likely scenario, and why.
A brand new "super DC" trust/club. Access to this club will be by joining with your points, and/or existing non-point weeks. There will be a fee to join, and there will be a skim. The "Super DC" will have weeks from all systems in it, whereas the existing points based systems for all prior groups will only have access to that old system's pool. As people join the new "Super DC", their "ownership" fraction will transfer to the new "Super DC", shrinking the old ownership pool. For early seeding, I suspect that post 2010 Marriott weeks will be allowed to join, probably in a restrictive manner, with equivalent deals for the other merged timeshare groups.

This is one of my fears. If we think there is a 'black box' inventory process going on now with just the MVC resorts and points, imagine what will happen in a 'super DC' trust/club. There will be no transparency regarding how our owned weeks and points are being utilized. Any equity that we have built under the legacy weeks and MVC points programs will be diminished by the overwhelming number of 'new' members. I bought my timeshares more as vacation condos and the new program is more like a network of hotels. This new company will also basically control the industry, so what incentive do they have to keep owners happy.

 

[VacationForever]

I really would like all 3 systems be kept separate. We paid quite alot to get us to Presidential level and it was a careful decision to go with Marriott as opposed to Hyatt and Vistana as we like Marriott resorts and system much more than the other 2 brands, with no offence intended to owners of the other 2 brands. Marriott DC system meets our needs.

I will be very upset if owners of the other 2 systems have easy / cheap access to Marriott DC system or if a super DC is created, rendering the current DC system inferior with reduced access to existing inventory.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

This is one of my fears. If we think there is a 'black box' inventory process going on now with just the MVC resorts and points, imagine what will happen in a 'super DC' trust/club. There will be no transparency regarding how our owned weeks and points are being utilized. Any equity that we have built under the legacy weeks and MVC points programs will be diminished by the overwhelming number of 'new' members. I bought my timeshares more as vacation condos and the new program is more like a network of hotels. This new company will also basically control the industry, so what incentive do they have to keep owners happy.

I don't want to sound like sour grapes, Superchief, but that is why I sold back my Marriotts a few years ago (back to Marriott). The MVC system was being evolved into a pre-paid hotel network. (with condos instead of rooms)

Now if prepaid hotel condos are what "floats your boat", then by all means look forward to the changes. If not, this system is steadily becoming an albatross. I went to a HGVC affiliate. . .

 

[mariawolf]

So I own a fixed Harborside week 52 one bedroom and week 1 two bedroom lock off—never trade due to high fees
Right now Atlantis hotel run by Marriott only has 100 rooms per day for Marriott Rewards members-this May have changed recently—but my son is platinum due to work travel and was told that
Bought gold season Frenchman’s cove and love it there so last trip bought into vacation club and got gold for life as rewards member
I actually like the points idea and bought for the Spain beach resorts so hope that is still reasonable in summer-except air fare—because grandchildren now in school week 1 and week 52 Harborside is too crazy

 

[JIMinNC]

I don't want to sound like sour grapes, Superchief, but that is why I sold back my Marriotts a few years ago (back to Marriott). The MVC system was being evolved into a pre-paid hotel network. (with condos instead of rooms)

Now if prepaid hotel condos are what "floats your boat", then by all means look forward to the changes. If not, this system is steadily becoming an albatross. I went to a HGVC affiliate. . .

I think Ralph's point here very succinctly defines why some people hate the points systems and others of us love them. Those who favor the week-based timeshare model and want a more traditional timeshare experience strongly favor the cost efficiency of the traditional timeshare product and don't care about or need the other things the points systems bring to the table. Those of us who want a more flexible system and are willing to pay more for that flexibility - and are willing to "pre-pay" for ongoing access to that network - tend to prefer the "prepaid hotel condo" approach that points offer. We are primarily in this latter category, so we are intrigued by the potential this new combination might offer us, but we also see a place for traditional deeded week(s) in places we want to visit repeatedly.

 

[BocaBoy]

Lots of cynicism and cautions here about how we're going to get hosed, it will take forever to devise a workable merged system, blah blah blah.

Sorry, I'm not buying into that.

I started as a real skeptic of the DC system. As a Marriott Lake Tahoe Grand Residence legacy quarter share weeks owner, they took awhile longer to figure out how to incorporate us into the DC system, because we own a specific unit for each of 13 weeks per year (one per month). But they did it, and it worked.

At first, I thought the skim would be a real rip off from what I'd read on TUG, and I didn't understand that buying into the system didn't commit me to enrolling weeks, but just offered another option, fully flexible every year. Now, I mix use of our weeks, occupying our favored weeks, renting out some weeks, trading in 5 different exchange systems, and electing weeks for points stays of 1 day to 2 weeks or more at Marriott and Ritz timeshares all over. It is extremely flexible, and they let us buy into the DC system with our 13 legacy weeks at the standard multi week rate. It has really enhanced our overall use of our Marriott timeshares. I barely notice the skim, and get pretty much what I want with sufficient lead time.

I think they really want to make this work well, and become the premier high end timeshare system with satisfied customers. I also believe they will find a way to make it easy to use, minimizing multiple system confusions, and overcome any legal or logistical issues that some think may make it difficult to incorporate the new systems. These will all be a part of Marriott now, regardless of their branding. Marriott knows how to manage, and I'm relieved that they are the lead on this and not ILG, or Diamond taking over.

Sure, they want to make money, but I think they'll have a whole new market of eager customers once those potential buyers find out what will be available through this system. I think Marriott will do it faster than many here seem to imagine - they've been through it before. They incorporated Ritz and Grand Residences relatively smoothly, with different levels of access for Ritz based on number of points owned, and I see the same with Vistana and Hyatt. They've probably been thinking about it for quite awhile already.

I agree with this. Several posts in this thread are quite antagonistic, looking for bad motives and predicting many negatives going forward. Seems a lot like the "consensus" when MVCI was spun off, and again when DC was introduced. I did not agree with either "consensus" at the time. And not surprisingly, both the spin off and the DC program have been very successful. With that track record, I am willing to give MVCI the benefit of the doubt as they deal with this acquisition. It is even possible that they will not merge systems at all. Time will tell, but I think it will turn out to be a plus for most current owners.

 

[ilene13]

We have owned Marriott timeshares since the late 1980’s when Marriott took over Harbour Pointe from the original developer. I have seen more changes that the majority of owners. Some I agree with, some I don’t. I am willing to give Marriott the benefit of the doubt at this point. Too many people are making speculations that may never come to fruition so it’s not worth aggravating myself over. For a point of information we are Chairman’s Club and our timeshares were all purchased from the developers because 35-40 years ago there was not a big secondary market!!

 

[Colt Seavers]

Lots of cynicism and cautions here about how we're going to get hosed, it will take forever to devise a workable merged system, blah blah blah.

Sorry, I'm not buying into that.

I started as a real skeptic of the DC system. As a Marriott Lake Tahoe Grand Residence legacy quarter share weeks owner, they took awhile longer to figure out how to incorporate us into the DC system, because we own a specific unit for each of 13 weeks per year (one per month). But they did it, and it worked.

I agree and I think your comparison with the DC program is right on point. The idea that Marriott would buy ILG just to devalue the ownership of its current customers is hard to accept.

When the DC first rolled out I was hesitant to enroll, mainly due to the amount of the enrollment fee. What bothered be most was the way they were marketing the DC as if we needed to purchase something new or lose the Marriott trade ability of our legacy week which was our main motivation for purchasing it. In the end we waited a few years, continuing to trade in Interval, until the encore offer came along and we were able to enroll for next to nothing.

MVC just put in the legal and technological effort to build the trust and the DC reservation system so I think they will just begin rolling the new brands into the existing trust once they have determined appropriate values for each property. My post above about $0 trades to Hyatt and Westin was mostly wishful thinking, but I also would not be surprised if that came to fruition as it would motivate more enrollment and thus increase the guaranteed club due revenue.

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree with this. Several posts in this thread are quite antagonistic, looking for bad motives and predicting many negatives going forward. Seems a lot like the "consensus" when MVCI was spun off, and again when DC was introduced. I did not agree with either "consensus" at the time. And not surprisingly, both the spin off and the DC program have been very successful. With that track record, I am willing to give MVCI the benefit of the doubt as they deal with this acquisition. It is even possible that they will not merge systems at all. Time will tell, but I think it will turn out to be a plus for most current owners.

I agree. Not all of the changes that MVC has gone through since we first bought in have been more-beneficial-than-not, but at each point we've been able to use our ownership in ways that we never would have expected then and fully appreciate now. Wait and see is the right approach to this, and I'm expecting that just like with the DC introduction many of the initial negative opinions will change over time.

From the DC inception I've thought that the DC Exchange Company was set up perfectly to give MVW options to get pieces of the other systems' pies. I didn't necessarily expect that they'd actually acquire the companies to do that but I'm not unhappy that's what they're doing. My first reaction is that MVW can and may keep the different timeshare companies separate from each other under the MVW umbrella for quite some time, but they'll take incremental steps at integration to allow cross-company exchanges with some limited favorability - existing Weeks ownerships via II that they're acquiring and existing Points ownerships via the DC Exchange Company, with the possibility that the two exchange companies will be merged. Later will come cross-company enrollment options that mostly conform to the DC model, and finally some rebranding of properties similar to what Marriott, Int'l is doing with the hotel properties following that Starwood acquisition.

I may be right, may be wrong, but no doubt these are exciting times once again! (And I'd be lying if I said this isn't making my OCD skyrocket with what it means for TUG moderation. )

 

[jme]

I may be right, may be wrong, but no doubt these are exciting times once again! (And I'd be lying if I said this isn't making my OCD skyrocket with what it means for TUG moderation. )

Everything in moderation, Susan........

 

[BigMac]

Woops - 4 law firms have already given notice they will "scrutinize' the deal between ILG and VAC for possible breaches of fiduciary responsibility by the ILG Board of Directors. Don't know if this is typical whenever an acquisition is announced but let's hope it does not lead to prolonged litigation.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ILG?p=ILG

 

[VacationForever]

I am wondering aloud whether this will pass the anti-trust scrutiny.

 

[chemteach]

Hey Marathoner,

People are speculating that every property gets assigned Destination Point value. I think we go back to 2011 and the push to "Enroll your Weeks" If you own Vistana, Hyatt, other II properties or points will you have to "Enroll your weeks" and buy destination points to play. The big money is to sell more points and enroll weeks.

I think VAC may be legally bound to let Hyatt and Vistana owners keep their rights inside their own systems. But, if you own Hyatt will you have to pay to enroll your weeks and add points if you want to play in the Marriott system? FYI, Hyatt is trying to role out a point system with a cost to enroll. Hyatt also has a big advantage for II exchanges, a Hyatt diamond week is 2,200 points and a 2br exchange only costs 1,300 points.

Unfortunately for Vistana purchasers, the staroptions associated with a unit are not deeded, and Vistana could change the system at their whim. Hopefully, they won't, but they could...

 

[dioxide45]

Woops - 4 law firms have already given notice they will "scrutinize' the deal between ILG and VAC for possible breaches of fiduciary responsibility by the ILG Board of Directors. Don't know if this is typical whenever an acquisition is announced but let's hope it does not lead to prolonged litigation.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ILG?p=ILG

The deal has to go before the shareholders for a vote. If they don't like it, can't they vote no?

Unfortunately for Vistana purchasers, the staroptions associated with a unit are not deeded, and Vistana could change the system at their whim. Hopefully, they won't, but they could...

While they aren't on the individual owns deed. There are 5 resorts where the club membership is written in to the recorded condo documents. They could wipe out the VSN program and say it is being replaced by DC to try to lock out resale owners, however an argument could be made that DC is the new club. It would provide an easy and perhaps cheap entry point in to DC through those mandatory resorts, of which only two have ROFR.

 

[controller1]

Woops - 4 law firms have already given notice they will "scrutinize' the deal between ILG and VAC for possible breaches of fiduciary responsibility by the ILG Board of Directors. Don't know if this is typical whenever an acquisition is announced but let's hope it does not lead to prolonged litigation.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ILG?p=ILG

That is very typical in all mergers. There will be other firms to join the four initial firms. The firms will solicit ILG shareholders to join in various suits. The only winners will be the law firms.

 

[nuwermj]

I am wondering aloud whether this will pass the anti-trust scrutiny.

I think it will very likely pass. The only way scrutiny would be made is if the anti-trust division's definition of the industry is restricted to hotel branded timeshares. This is a very narrow definition. In a broader market, this merger will not be seen as lessening competition.

 

[FunInTheSunForever]

With all of this going on, would it still be a good time to buy a Marriott or Westin resale week? Or Marriott DC points? Or would it be better to wait until we see how things work out? I am worried about overpaying especially for a Vistana mandatory resort with Star Options if they might go away.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Our base strategy is to continue to use/rent out our Westin Kaanapali OF (use rent to pay for another TS rental elsewhere) and TRADE using our HGVC system properties.

If VAC offers an incentive package at no/low cost to enroll in DC with reasonable MF while maintaining our Vistana Mandatory resale rights and deed, we might go for it. Of course I hope StarOption trades will still exist.

IMHO...I have been trying to follow this discussion on DC trust points - it's complicated! HGVC seems to be LOT simpler with all deeds automatically enrolled in their points program - no trust points which can be devalued or MF shell games. It is a very nice system - I wish it had more locations, but they are actively expanding. HGVC has also proven that they can operate quality resorts with reasonable MF.

Although access to Marriott and Hyatt would be nice, it might simply be too expensive and risky. To incent us to move from this position, VAC DC would have to offer much more than we can get from today with our HGVC trades and depositing our Westin week via II or another exchange.

Will invest in HGVC but hold off on incremental investment in VAC until the cards play out unless they offer a deal we cannot refuse - this will take a few years. YMMV, if we had a Vistana trader, we would probably approach this differently but we purchased WKORVN to use. I imagine that many Hyatt Residence owners on Kaanapali will approach the same way.