Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[pianodinosaur]

I own TSs in Orlando. There has been hurricane damage on several occasions but Hilton has not clobbered us with massive MF increases. If there was hurricane damage to Hilton TSs in Orlando there must have been some to the Marriott TSs in Orlando. Perhaps some of you Marriott owners in Aruba also own in Orlando. Were there massive MF increases after hurricane damage in Orlando? Would a Tsunami in Hawaii result in massive MF increases? I think this issue affects all of us who own timeshares.

 

[marksue]

I was just out at the Ocean Club website. It looks like the board has now removed all documents, meeting minutes, and other documents owners have legal access to. They were there the other day and now they are gone.

What is this board afraid of? It certainly seems like they are not in the owners corner. Did Marriott tell them to remove the documents? As owners we should have rights to all public notices.

I understand from the board meeting the owners paid for a consultant to look over the roof, why not share that report with the owners? What is the board and Marriott afraid of.

I have to tell you this behavior by our board lends me to wonder if there is a way we can recall the board members. I am going to read the details of the bylaws to see if there is a way to recall the members and get owner friendly members on the board.

If anyone knows if this is possible please reply to this thread.

 

[marksue]

I received an email this morning from an owner asking what we the owners are looking for. I am going to layout what I consider to be our issues. All numbers posted here were supplied at the annual meeting

1) Marriott did not disclose that the building was not a Marriott built building but a building they purchased from a bankrupt company
2) It seems obvious that Marriott did not due the proper due diligence on the building or when they finished the building they did not do a quality job, as the building was not waterproofed, as there were leaks from the windows and roof since day 1 thus resulting in constant repair costs including 200k from Omar
3) Did they or the bankrupt company put on a metal roof, (and who puts on a metal roof in the Caribbean) which was replaced a few years ago which the owners had to pay a portion of the cost
4) The cost to repair the roof is 1.6 m, Marriott is paying 43% of that cost or about 688k
5) Marriott is also giving an additional 1.9 million through waived fees and money float
6) The cost to the owners is 900k for the roof
7) Omar is costing us 200k
8) To waterproof the building is costing us 750k
9) There was additional work outside the refurbishment of about 300 – 500k
10) That is a total cost of about 2.3 million
11) What is not know is how much have we the owners paid for the repair work due to the constant leaking and flooding since Marriott opened the doors to the Ocean Club. I would guess in the 1.5 – 3 million range. This does not include wear and tear maintenance costs which we are responsible.
12) So we could say the owners have about $5 million
13) There are a total of 11,118 weeks sold (51 weeks x 218 rooms). This comes out to just about $450 an owner in operating costs we should not have paid for.
14) So if you are asking me what I want, I want Marriott to pay the $450 that we now have to pay in our maintenance costs, which would bring our annual costs more inline to wear it should be.
15) Another item which needs to be investigated is to see if over the years Marriott has been paying their fair costs for the space taken up by the sales office and desks of the outside companies. As an owner I asked for and have yet to receive a full accounting and comparison of fair market costs over the years. How much more is due the owners is unknown.

MARRIOTT AND THE OCEAN CLUB BOARD DO RIGHT BY THE OWNERS, DON’T RAPE US WITH THESE OUTRAGIOUS CHARGES. WE WILL NOT SIT STILL FOR IT. THE FIGHT WILL CONTINUE UNTIL WE ARE TREATED FAIRLY.

 

[Dave M]

Marriott said they're not buying back Ocean Club at this time. They said they have enough inventory.

...and...

If Marriott has too much inventory, then you know that there is a problem....

One of my internal Marriott sources states that Marriott is not currently buying back any weeks at any resorts. It has nothing to do with Ocean Club.

 

[thinze3]

...and...One of my internal Marriott sources states that Marriott is not currently buying back any weeks at any resorts. It has nothing to do with Ocean Club.

My saleperson at Intervalmax (an eBay resale company) just assured me again this morning that Marriott has not executed a ROFR with them in months and that the response time for waivers is now only days.

We can probably assume that the credit crunch is in play here somewhat.

 

[Steve]

...and...One of my internal Marriott sources states that Marriott is not currently buying back any weeks at any resorts. It has nothing to do with Ocean Club.

Is the issue that Marriott isn't buying back weeks (for trade or "upgrade" for another, higher priced week purchase in another Marriott resort)? Or is it that Marriott is no longer accepting listings where they will sell your ownership for you at their current prices for a 40% commission?

If Marriott is no longer accepting listings of resale weeks at any resorts, then this is a very recent change.

Steve

 

[lovearuba]

Marriott buying back weeks

We spoke to them a couple of days ago and they said they would put our unit on their list so the information is not consistent. What else is new?

 

[regatta333]

I own TSs in Orlando. There has been hurricane damage on several occasions but Hilton has not clobbered us with massive MF increases. If there was hurricane damage to Hilton TSs in Orlando there must have been some to the Marriott TSs in Orlando. Perhaps some of you Marriott owners in Aruba also own in Orlando. Were there massive MF increases after hurricane damage in Orlando? Would a Tsunami in Hawaii result in massive MF increases? I think this issue affects all of us who own timeshares.

Why wouldn't hurricane damage be covered by insurance?

 

[gmarine]

Why wouldn't hurricane damage be covered by insurance?

It is but the deductable can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[OCsun]

I just completed a meeting with one of the Sales Representatives and he said that they would be happy to take my one bedroom ocean front unit as a resale. He quoted $19,000 as the price they would sell it for before commission. Maybe it is because there are only 12 ocean front one bedroom units in the building or maybe he is mis-informed! Since dear hubby loves this ocean front unit, we have not pursued that option yet - so time will tell. Pam

 

[thinze3]

I think there is some confusion going on here.

When Dave mentioned that Marriott is not buying back units at this time, he did NOT say that Marriott would not put your unit on a list for resale. I believe he meant that Marriott is not buying direct or executing ROFR for the simple purpose of holding inventory.

I too put one of my units on the resale list two weeks ago Most likely that unit won't actually sale for a very long time as the resort is not quite sold out. Marriott did not offer to buy it.

Terry

 

[lll1929]

I spoke with Allen today. He is on the board but no longer the president so he didn't have many answers. He did mention the increase in the Maint Fees.

I am still very disappointed in the new Board (President). I don't think its right to remove all documents off the website as well as the contact information.

I too wonder what the Board is trying to hide.

 

[pianodinosaur]

gmarine & regatta333:

You raised good points. Why wouldn't the problems at Aruba Ocean Club be handled by insurance? Why is all this cost being passed on to the TS owners instead of the general partner, Marriott?

 

[Dave M]

If Marriott is no longer accepting listings of resale weeks at any resorts, then this is a very recent change.

My statement intentionally did not address whether Marriott would accept listings. My comment addressed only Marriott buybacks (e.g., exercising ROFR).

 

[lovearuba]

Lets do the math

Hey owners:
Why dont we figure out what it actually cost for maintenance. There are at least 311 rooms per Marriotts Hotel facts sheet for the ocean club. Lets divide that number by two and we get 155 units, 2 bedroom units. I know this is an approximation but its the simplest way I can figure it out.

Now since I've judiciously made these two bedroom units by my calculation, lets multiply that by the maintenance for a two bedroom, last year that was approximately $1100.00 Going up to $1600 in 2009, so I've heard, this does not include the special assessment.

Multiply either one of the mainenance fees by 50 weeks because we only get one week for our usage and I am not using 52 because I'm being generous.

When I do the math, I come up with 8.5 million dollars in maintenance fees. In 2009 the figure goes up to $12.4 million dollars. Both of those numbers are unreasonable by any ones math. How is it I still am paying the assessment fee on top of these huge maintenance fees. I will be paying over $2300.00 for two years. Ouch, there goes Christmas.

Feel free to take apart my math if you feel I should be including other things. Maintenance to me means maintenance not Marriotts ad on fees to make them all rich.

I still want to hear the pros and cons and why people are not doing something about this.

Marriott needs to turn the other cheek and do the right thing.

 

[marksue]

The reason insurance does not cover the damage is we have a 500k deductable. So the owners are told by Marriott to bend over, while they give us the shaft. Time to pass the shaft back to Marriott.

I have found in our bylaws how to remove board members. I will be typing it up and posting it here.

If you want to read it go to page 17 section 6.3 of the Marriott's AOC governing Documents.

I am open in trying to get 10% of all the rooms sold to call for a meeting and vote out the current board.

Isn't it amazing that the board has yet let owners know what the fees are nor have we had a letter from the new president introducing himself.

 

[Steve]

My statement intentionally did not address whether Marriott would accept listings. My comment addressed only Marriott buybacks (e.g., exercising ROFR).

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the clarification. I have read a number of posts from various people stating that Marriott will (or will not) "buy back" a week when they are actually referring to whether or not Marriott will list the week for resale to another 3rd party. Some people use those terms somewhat interchangeably.

I had thought that Ellen was considering listing her weeks for sale through Marriott...and that that was what she had meant when she referred to Marriott not "buying back" weeks at Ocean Club. So, I was confused...but your explanation regarding Marriott not exercising ROFR makes complete sense.

Thanks again,

Steve

 

[marksue]

Foillowing is the rule for recalling a board member.

6.3 Removal of Directors: At any duly convened regular or special meeting, any one or more of the Directors other than the developer elected directors may be removed, with or without cause, by the vote or agreement in writing of a majority of all the voting interests. Developer elected Directors may be removed only for good cause.

The calling of a special meeting of members to recall members of the board of directors may be called by voting members representing not less than 10% of the total votes. Notice of such meeting shall be given 14 days prior to such meeting and shall state the purpose of the meeting. In the event that a majority of the voting members at a duly convened meeting vote to recall a director, the directorship of the recalled member shall be terminated effective immediately and the recalled member shall turn over to the board all records and property of the association in his possession within 5 full business days.

 

[lovearuba]

Removing members

So does this mean that Marriott illegally removed Allan? I doubt that they got a 10% consensus and I dont think this was communicated? I sure didnt hear about it and I am signed up to receive email updates? This really needs to be explained.

 

[concernedowner]

I received an email this morning from an owner asking what we the owners are looking for. I am going to layout what I consider to be our issues. All numbers posted here were supplied at the annual meeting

1) Marriott did not disclose that the building was not a Marriott built building but a building they purchased from a bankrupt company
2) It seems obvious that Marriott did not due the proper due diligence on the building or when they finished the building they did not do a quality job, as the building was not waterproofed, as there were leaks from the windows and roof since day 1 thus resulting in constant repair costs including 200k from Omar
3) Did they or the bankrupt company put on a metal roof, (and who puts on a metal roof in the Caribbean) which was replaced a few years ago which the owners had to pay a portion of the cost
4) The cost to repair the roof is 1.6 m, Marriott is paying 43% of that cost or about 688k
5) Marriott is also giving an additional 1.9 million through waived fees and money float
6) The cost to the owners is 900k for the roof
7) Omar is costing us 200k
8) To waterproof the building is costing us 750k
9) There was additional work outside the refurbishment of about 300 – 500k
10) That is a total cost of about 2.3 million
11) What is not know is how much have we the owners paid for the repair work due to the constant leaking and flooding since Marriott opened the doors to the Ocean Club. I would guess in the 1.5 – 3 million range. This does not include wear and tear maintenance costs which we are responsible.
12) So we could say the owners have about $5 million
13) There are a total of 11,118 weeks sold (51 weeks x 218 rooms). This comes out to just about $450 an owner in operating costs we should not have paid for.
14) So if you are asking me what I want, I want Marriott to pay the $450 that we now have to pay in our maintenance costs, which would bring our annual costs more inline to wear it should be.
15) Another item which needs to be investigated is to see if over the years Marriott has been paying their fair costs for the space taken up by the sales office and desks of the outside companies. As an owner I asked for and have yet to receive a full accounting and comparison of fair market costs over the years. How much more is due the owners is unknown.

MARRIOTT AND THE OCEAN CLUB BOARD DO RIGHT BY THE OWNERS, DON’T RAPE US WITH THESE OUTRAGIOUS CHARGES. WE WILL NOT SIT STILL FOR IT. THE FIGHT WILL CONTINUE UNTIL WE ARE TREATED FAIRLY.

I have only recently discovered this forum. Apparently, much time and thought has been put into these concerns. Please forgive me if I sound naive.
So what would happen if the owners sue for $450 each. How much would an attorney get? My experience with class action suits has been that the plaintiffs end up with very little of the money. Are there other options? Even if I get $450, it does not seem worth increasing the angst between Marriott and the owners.
However, I do agree that a response from the board is in order.
It does sound like we are being forced to give money to pay for repairs that would not have been necessary if the building had been well constructed. Are there any similar resorts (size, age, etc, climatic conditions) to which we can compare maintenance costs. How do we know that the Ocean Club is poorly constructed? Do we know that repairs are being done appropriately?
I don't like to see an increase in maintenance fees, but also don't want the Ocean Club to experience more damage due to lack of funding. Do we know for sure that the underlying problems have been corrected before more money is spent on cosmetic issues?

 

[Zac495]

...and...One of my internal Marriott sources states that Marriott is not currently buying back any weeks at any resorts. It has nothing to do with Ocean Club.

Resale yes. I edited this after misunderstanding sweet Dave's post.

 

[Zac495]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the clarification. I have read a number of posts from various people stating that Marriott will (or will not) "buy back" a week when they are actually referring to whether or not Marriott will list the week for resale to another 3rd party. Some people use those terms somewhat interchangeably.

I had thought that Ellen was considering listing her weeks for sale through Marriott...and that that was what she had meant when she referred to Marriott not "buying back" weeks at Ocean Club. So, I was confused...but your explanation regarding Marriott not exercising ROFR makes complete sense.

Thanks again,



Steve

Me too - that's what I thought you meant.

 

[vincenzi]

I e-mailed the new president of the board

We own two weeks (2 bedroom units) at the Marriott Aruba Ocean Club. After reading different posts on TUG, I e-mailed Frank Knox, the new president of the board, on November 2nd. I asked him to please clarify how much the maintenance and assessment fees were going to cost me next year. As of yet, he has not responded to my e-mail. I am very concerned.

 

[lll1929]

We own two weeks (2 bedroom units) at the Marriott Aruba Ocean Club. After reading different posts on TUG, I e-mailed Frank Knox, the new president of the board, on November 2nd. I asked him to please clarify how much the maintenance and assessment fees were going to cost me next year. As of yet, he has not responded to my e-mail. I am very concerned.

I also email Frank and Alan on 10/30 regarding Maint fees. Alan returned my call and the Maint fee's in this thread are accurate for Marriott Aruba Ocean Club. Frank has not responded. It's very disappointing.

 

[Kelly&Sean]

Total maintenance fee

Above, someone was estimating what the total maintenance fees collected were. I went back and did the actual math based on last years information and what has been reported on this site for this year.

The total maintenance fees collected for 2008 was $10,704,671. This is from the Vacation Club website. Based on this information, I have calculated that the total maintenance fees for this year will be $15,452,166. This is a 44 percent increase. I determined this years costs based on 6,437 1 bedroom units at $1,198 and 4,790 2 bedroom units at $1,616. Please note that the total units come straight from last years maintenance fee schedule.

The special assessment in 2009 will equal a total of $7,183,440 and for 2010 of $5,603,137 for a total of $12,786,577. Again, this is determined based on the special assessment per unit reported on this site. Since I beleive that there is a total of 218 2 & 1 bedroom units, the per unit cost of the assessment would be about $59,000 per unit.

Again these are estimates based on what has been written, so if something has been written wrong, these numbers could be incorrect. Yes, I am a nerdy accountant.