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Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

marksue

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I spoke to Stephen Weisz president of MVCI. Stephen I appreciate you giving your time today to speak. I speak to him directly as he did mention that he reads Tug. Even though we do not agree about the state of the Ocean Club he did stress that if we the owners do not like what the board is doing we need to change the makeup of the board.

We the owners know the building has leaked since the Ocean Club opened yet this is denied by MVCI. He said if we have proof that it was defective then the board needs to direct this to MVCI and MVCI will defend their stance on the building.

I do believe there is enough information from the engineering reports, the environmental report and the list of all the repairs due to the leaking and flooding for the board to be proactive and go to MVCI to get a fair deal for owners. I would recommend the board bring in some owners to partake in this effort to provide transparency and trust.
 

dioxide45

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I do believe there is enough information from the engineering reports, the environmental report and the list of all the repairs due to the leaking and flooding for the board to be proactive and go to MVCI to get a fair deal for owners. I would recommend the board bring in some owners to partake in this effort to provide transparency and trust.

Isn't the board a group of owners voted in by the owners to work on the other owner’s behalf?
 

Zac495

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Ellen,

The letter ha
s been distributed to all owners who have responded to the calling of the special board meeting. I have asked that all the letters be sent out if possible within the week.

Great - did you update it from the one you sent with the red marks? :)
 

marksue

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I got it this morning and sent him an email about posting it here. I will post when I get the ok. Very informative and supports a lot of what many of us have said here.
 

OCsun

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Has anybody else received an update from Allen Cohen today?

Yes, I received the letter and I am very grateful to Allan for sharing that information. The part regarding Marriott retaining 10% of annual maintenance fees for managing the resort is really upsetting to me. I agree with the opinion that Marriott's fee should be a based on the services they provide and should not be tied to the cost of electricity going up on the island. What a rip off!! I am sooooo mad at Marriott that I would be selling my unit immediately if the market was in better shape. I will never buy another Marriott timeshare, they have left a very bitter taste in my mouth. :mad:
 

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Ok, here we go again. Has that changed since you bought ? of course not. They have been doing it that way for 20 years and you decide now, thats not the way they should do it and you are mad. Amazing logic .... When you sold a house last year , the realtor got 5% of the selling price. This year they STILL get 5% even though the selling price is probably much lower. Lots of fees are based on percentages.

The part regarding Marriott retaining 10% of annual maintenance fees for managing the resort is really upsetting to me. I agree with the opinion that Marriott's fee should be a based on the services they provide and should not be tied to the cost of electricity going up on the island. :
 
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ecwinch

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I agree with the opinion that Marriott's fee should be a based on the services they provide and should not be tied to the cost of electricity going up on the island.

Ditto to Eric's point.

Also, how to you value the following services they provide:

1) Use of and /affiliation with Marriott brand. A brand they have built and maintain
2) The value of internal trading system within II - including reduced exchange fee and 30 day preference. It is important to note that no other resort brand has the same level of rights as the MVCI brand within II
 
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dioxide45

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Ditto to Eric's point.

Also, how to you value the following services they provide:

1) Use of and /affiliation with Marriott brand. A brand they have built and maintain
2) The value of internal trading system within II - including reduced exchange fee and 30 day preference. It is important to note that no other resort brand has the same level of rights as the MVCI brand within II

These are very important, while the owners now may not be happy with Marriott, they should be happy that the resort carries its name. That name makes it worth more than it would be without it.
 

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Allan's Letter pt 1

Now since you have received your shocking 2009 Maintenance bill an d await the assessment bill in a few months I wish to update you and to respond to the many emails and call I have received regarding this a nd the recent correspondence forwarded by Marriott Management (MM) headed Frequently Asked Questions and signed by the Board of Directors.

I wish to make it clear that I had never seen or were ever informed about this document prior to it being sent. Since my removal as President and my vote against the current Maintenance fee the Board has not kept me informed of any correspondence to Owners or from Owners. During my tenure as President I always shared with the other Owner Board members all my correspondence for c omments and review prior to it being sent. We may not all agree, but this lack of open communications, has lead to a lot of mistrust by&nb sp;Owners who feel that they do not have complete or accurate information.

In my continued efforts to keep you, my fellow Owners informed in a truthful and factual manner I wish to comment on some on the FAQ responses from (MM) and the rest of the Board and share my proposals to the Board.

I also have been reading with interest owner comments on the Timeshare Users Group (TUG2) Bulletin Board forum tread http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t =82564. I never had regularly looked at Blogs before it was brought to my attention the day after the AOC annual meeting in a phone call from the new President in which he stated that he had been told by (MM), who read the Blogs on a daily basis, that unless I stopped the Blog comments from owners that "MM would sue me personally".


I did not start this Blog nor had anything to do with it, and do not appreciate the threat by the Board and MM. Because of the actions taken at the Annual Meeting many Owners feel that they are not being heard and started this Bulletin Board which now seems to be a focal point for owners to get information and vent their concerns about the actions taken by MM and the Board of Directors.

I have always believed in open communications and although I have been reluctant to respond on the blogs, I have and will continue to talk to any owner who emails me at C20854@aol.com or calls me at 301-299-2118.

I would like to further explain my removal as President, but must inform you that The Board after removing me as President held a special meeting and passed a resolution (4 to 1) which made all information privy to the Board as confidential including all minutes, resolutions etc which cannot be divulged without prior written approval of the Board of Directors. All information that I had previously posted on the web site was immediately removed and any violation of this resolution, the Board has the right to sue the individual personally and seek monetary damages. After passage of this resolution I made a motion that the resolution having been adopted be forwarded to owners and be posted on our web site. My motion was not seconded nor commented on by any Board member. Since I cannot share the resolution with you all the information I am sharing has been discussed an d shared with numerous owners previously.

I strongly feel that every owner has an equal right to know what is happening. I do not understand what information that I as a Board member and Owner should have that you as a fellow Owner cannot be made aware of. We all have an ownership and financial interest in the Aruba Ocean Club.

I feel that the gag order that has been imposed on me is very unfortunate for all owners. I hope that we can amend our bylaws very soon to insure open communications.

My responses to the document: Marriott’s AOC Frequently Asked Questions & 13 Action Items

Question: Is Allan Cohen, the previous President of the Association, still serving on the Association Board?


Yes, I am still on the Board but do not remember any discussion of a succession plan being discussed at the January meeting and the minutes do not reflect any. My only information came after I heard about a private meeting being scheduled by two of our Board members with the new GM in Aruba for September. When asked about what was going on - I was told that the owner members wanted to remove me as President since this was my last year on the Board. At the same time they rescinded the resolution which had been passed by the Board and was to be mailed to all owners for a vote on the removal of the term limit provision of our by laws. MM was adamantly opposed to any changes in the term limit provision and spoke to the Board about it. It is interesting that the Marriott Corporate Board does not have term limits.

Since they had the votes needed - I had no say, but I was told that this was to take place at an organizational meeting sometime after the annual meeting. What happened at the Board meeting the day prior to the Annual meeting was a surprise to me and was to insure th at I would not be able to conduct the Annual meeting the next day. This occurred after MM met with the other members of the Board two times - one showing them a copy of a blog posting stating that Allan Cohen and the Board were considering a class action effort against MM. When asked about this - I stated that the Board had received letters from owners stating that a class action effort would be considered if MM did not take some responsibility for the building issues. MM and the Board wrote a response posted on the blog and our web site. The second meeting with the other Board members occurred the same day after MM obtained a copy of a confidential private email sent that morning from the Boards Aruba attorney David Koch addressed to me. I had requested action options to be presented at the annual meeting if necessary depending on MM resolution of the Building cost issues.

The email:
-----Original Message-----
From: David Kock <david@dkwlegal.com>
To: C20854@aol.com< /A>
Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 7:38 pm
Subject: motion

Dear Allan,

As discussed on the phone I would recommend a text for the motion containing the following:

Motion to transfer the further negotiations with and/or required lawsuit(s) against the developer (and possible allied or parent company/companies) regarding all the indicated defects which have not been remedied and have, among others, caused the recent water and related damages to the resort, to the attorneys of the AOC with instructions to proceed immediately in this matter. The attorneys must firstly pursue all means to resolve these matters in favor of the AOC in an amicable manner wi thin a short period of time and in the event that such a resolution cannot be obtained, to pursue all legal avenues to obtain the desired results within the shortest possible timeframe.

Please let me know if this text covers what you intended or if you want it to be amended or simplified. I know its kind of long, but I wanted to word it in such a way that it would clearly remove doubts as what the exact instructions to the lawyers are. Sorry for the delay.

Regards
NOTICE
Unless otherwise indicated or obvious from the na ture of the transmittal, the information contained in this e-mail message is attorney privileged and confi dential information intended for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is directed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are not sure whether it is privileged, please immediately notify the sender by telephone, and return the original message to the sender at the above address. Our general terms and conditions, which include a limitation of professional liability, are applicable to all service rendered by the firm and its employees.
==================================================================================================


This resolution was similar to the one that the Board passed in Jan uary 2008, which I feel is the only reason that we got any action from MM on several of our demands. The removal action taken by the Board was to insure that MM did not have to deal with my questions and concerns.

==================================================================================================
Question: Why are roof and other repairs needed at Marriott’s Aruba Ocean Club? Was the building defective?

It was MM consultant that stated the immediate need for the roof replacement and it could not be repaired stating: “The weight of the wet/saturated substrate is greater than the original design loads of the roof structure and hence represents a risk of failure of the roof structure.”... I have not seen any final report from our consultants that our roof was not defective or met the original design specifications.

After MM hired a roof contractor, the Board on behalf of the Owners retained a nationally recognized mold consultant Connie Morback CEO of Sanit-Air, Inc.(also an owner at the Ocean Club) to bring a team to Aruba and review the on going repair work undertaken by MM. Her team consisted of herself and two engineers James Partridge of James Partridge Consulting, LLC and Stephen Rudner of Robert Darvas Associates Consulting Structural Engineers. They visited Aruba the week of September 7-11, 2008. I was fortunate to be with them and witness the professionalism and detail review. MM at the same time retained Gobbell Hays Partners to follow=2 0our team and take samples and observations where ever Connie's team did. Gobbell Hays in their brochure state that they had provided project management and design for the safe removal of moisture-contaminated building materials and finishes as well as corrective action to fight moisture growth from the interior of the Aruba Suirf Club.

Since my removal as President, I have not been given any information from or allowed contact with our consultants per the Board directive.

I have complete faith in the findings of Connie and her team and feel that it is important that Connie's report or summary be shared with the entire Board and owners to see her recommendations and expert opinion on mold remediation, the roof structure and the quality of the work being undertaken. We must understand the condition of our Building and not just take MM statements. I have also asked that MM share their report from Gobbell Hayes so we as owners can see what they are also saying about the conditions at the Aruba Ocean Club.

Question: Does the Board represent Owners or does it represent Marriott Vacation Club?

The Board has on retainer two excellent Aruba Attorney's Antonio De Carlo and David Koch for review and consultation. Of course we want to have a long term positive relationship, but we want fair and equitable treatment also. MM feels that our retention of legal experts and consultants has caused an "adversarial relationship". This is unfortunate,=2 0then why does everything that we request goes thru their legal department?&n bsp; Our legal counsels have stated that many issues that MM state as fact are open to interpretation. Like the issue of the Sales and Marketing desk in the Lobby and some of the building repair and maintenance costs which represents millions of dollars in lost revenue and expenses. MM financial concessions may only be a small portion of what owners have already spent or about to spend on repairs or lost in revenue.

Should we just accept MM legal opinion as fact when it continues to cost us greatly. As ou r attorney's have stated many times - remember - MM works for the Owners" - they are your management company.

I understand that every document that we have was drafted, written, and signed by MM for MM since no owners existed when the AOC was created. We bought into something where there were no arm length transactions and it was because of the fine reputation and our faith and belief in Marriott as a corporation. I would like to continue to believe in this.
 
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marksue

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Allans letter pt 2

Question: Why are we getting such a big increase in annual maintenance fees, approved by the Board?

Yes, we have had a number of large increases in utilities on the Island this year. But I continue to question how much we could have saved if we did not spend so much on repair and maintenance items. I did not support the maintenance fee amount yet the Board (4/1) accepted the amount that MM stated they needed. I asked MM if they could reduce the amount and the answer was yes, but we might have to reduce some services. I feel that it would have been worth looking into what services might be reduced or done more efficiently in order to get our maintenance fee to a reasonable figure.
Q uestion: What are our assurances that maintenance fees won't continue to escalate each year?

We had over 40 well qualified owners who volunteered for the Board finance committee. Two owners were selected under the direction of our Treasurer. I am hopeful that they will be given all the information necessary in a timely fashion to provide guidance and not be restricted from openly sharing their views with the entire Board and Owners. I have not been informed if they have been consulted as of yet.
Question: Why is an assessment needed at this time, what will it accomplish and why are we paying for it?

Yes, our reserve account has been underestimated since day one. We have relied on MM as the professionals wh o set the Brand standards which include a ten year refurbishment and what ever dollar amount they and their outside experts requested we funded. It is also probably true that if we had added $100 per unit to our reserves each of the past ten years, we would not need any assessment for the refurbishment. But as one owner stated - during the first 5 years alone - MM would have had to pay millions of dollars extra into the reserves under this scenario since the units would not have been sold. Although owners at that time would also have had to pay the additional $100 each year - it would have been a lot easier than the huge increases today.

I have always been supportive of the need for updating our facility. The Ten year refurbishment assessment had been mentioned to owners for the past two years so it should not have been a surprise. But I did not want to spend any funds until we knew that our building was water tight. Unfortunately, after the storm where 120 rooms were damaged MM informed us that the need for a complete re caulking of all openings was needed ASAP. I am still concerned about any improvements to the rooms and lobby area until the roof and drainage system are repaired, tested and I hope signed off by our consultants.

Question: Why do we even need a renovation or at a minimum, why can't it be put off for 2-3 years?

I have always been supportive of the need to update our facility because it is showing wear, but with the unexpected large increases in the maintenance fee and today's economic climate, I proposed to the Board a motion to let the owners have an opportunity to vote on the timing of the refurbishment and assessment. The Board refused to consider my motion.

I have heard from many owners who are really struggling to make ends meet at this time. ; They say "What good is a beautiful new villa if you can barely afford to own it any longer". We will never know if the majority of owners would be willing to live with the existing villas and briefly delay the refurbishment because of today's economics conditions.

=================================================================================================================

Question: Owners used to be able to contact the former President about issues and concerns and he would respond directly back to them with an answer. Owners are now being asked to send their questions to a general email address for the Board instead of directly to the President of the Association. Why the change?

This was never discussed at a Board meeting or with me. Owner satisfaction with my ability to get a response back to them from me or the GM was always praised. I feel that those elected to the Board should be willing to respond to those who they represent. Even MM own Customer Relations Manager requested his contact information be removed from our web site because he was getting to many questions from owners.

Prior to my removal as President and complaints from MM - the Board had stated that I would continue to communicate with Owners and maintain the web site. Now it is the Board and MM opinion that I provide too much information to the Owners. In the past MM has tried to control what I say to Owners and what was placed on www.Arubaoceanclub.com web site. I had always shared with the other owner members of the Board all information prior to posting on the web site seeking their comments and advice. I have also stated that if MM found any information that I posted that is not correct I will correct it immediately. They never informed me of any.

The current new policy is that MM with the other Board members control all information going to Owners. All your emails to the new aocbod@vacationclub.com are not shared with all members of the Board and responses are made thru MM. I am not convinced that the Board's goal of "open and re sponsive communications" is being met.

===============================================================
13 ACTION ITEMS FOR OWNER MEETING
I am urging the Board on behalf of the Owners to formally for the record take action on all items regarding the building repairs. No action by the Board has been taken. I will request a special meeting of Owners to act on these.

1. A motion that the Board/Owners consultant (Connie) provide the entire Board and Owners a copy of her report and a written acknowledgement of all items that they continue t o differ with MM (if any) so that we as a Board on behalf of the Owners either accept MM responses or our Consultants. Where a difference of opinion occurs we should take appropriate action.
We are spending millions of dollars and it has been obvious from prior work that some of our MM maintenance has not been satisfactory and oversight questionable. A draft consultant's report had raised a number of serious concerns regarding the installation of the new roof. In particular the quality and changes of material, the drain size, the lack of fastening of the under layment as requested by the mfg, and the ability of the underground storage facility to hold the runoff thus causing the continued flooding of the rear managers patio and our lobby. To my knowledge these items have not been resolved and signed off by our Consultant. Who is to pay for this? Also, what is the final solution for the repairs necessary for the rear front office walls that has leaked since the building was built? Has the Board/Owner consultant approved of this remedy and who will be paying for this repair?

2. A motion that the warranty for all the work conducted for MM be reviewed by the Boards/Owners consultant and our attorney for comment and recommendations prior to approval by the Board.
After review of the consultants recommendations the Board on behalf of the Owners should vote on whether to accept the terms of this warranty or amend it before any approval of payment is made for the work. The entire Board and Owners should be given in writing the details of the warranty.

3. A motion to recover the entire costs of the front atrium windows since a warranty did exist but we were informed incorrectly at the time. Also, request reimbursement for the repair and maintenance costs involved because of the water intrusion.
During the consultants visit in September I witnessed the Island mold remediation company under what was stated as mold remediation standards remove all the sheet rock on floors 2-6 in the atrium area because of water intrusion. This had to cost us thousands of dollars. What did our consultants recommend ? The replacement of some of the rusted interior metal studs in these walls was noted for removal. This was stated as a temporary fix - when will this be redone? During the past 10 years how many times have we done this and who should pay for this?

4. A motion that we seek a hold harmless agreement from MM drafted by our attorney on behalf of the Board and Owners for all work done including any future injury or environmental health claims. Also seek payment for all interior/exterior repairs as a result of the work being undertaken. Any future claims for illness related t o wat er intrusion and mold could be a great expense unless we are sure that all water intrusion issues are handled correctly.
The consultant draft report including the comments from the Boards/Owners structural engineers questioned a number of issues relating to blue prints provided by MM that seemed to be inconsistent with how the building was accurately built. Two of the items questioned included the ground drainage off the roof as well as flashing around the building. Mold remediation standards must be adhered to. MM has stated that everything is being done correctly. Since this may be the cause for some of the water intrusion since the building was built, recovery of all costs should be sought.

5. A motion to accept or reject MM proposal as it relates to the remaining original windows that have not been replaced but continue to fail.
C urrently MM has paid for the installation of the failed windows after getting the new windows free from the original manufacturer. It has been stated verbally by MM last year that all windows would be replaced now we they are only replacing failed windows. We need assurance in writing that they will continue to replace all windows that fail at no cost. The manufacturer warranty is about to expired and this could cost Owners a lot of money in the future.

6. A motion that the repainting of the front exterior be completed at no cost to the owners.
This was stated by MM engineer. If this is not true - seek recovery of all costs involved and damages if any.

7. A motion to withhold all payments relating to the construction on all items not approved and signed off by the Boards/Owners independent consultant.
We must have outside professional oversight to insure that the work is being done correctly, so we do not have the problems that exist today with our Building.
 

marksue

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Allan's letter pt 3

8. A motion to seek recovery of the $26,000 expenditure for the site survey from MM our developer.
The document given to the Board was not an accurate survey (the building shape was not even the same).

9. A motion to accept or reject the offer of 48% of costs for the roof replacement from MM as their total resp onsibility as fair and equitable or insufficient.
What is the recommendations of our consultant as to the quality of the old roof, the installation and maintenance of it and if possible explain why it failed? Is the new roof's costs reasonable, the installation correct and 10 year warranty industry standard?

10. A motion that a Board consultant review the proposed scope of work and costs required to re caulk and tighten the entire building as recommended by MM.
After the recent storm 120 rooms were damaged and MM consultant stated that we must re caulk the entire building to make it water tight. =2 0 What have we been doing during the last 10 years in our repair and maintenance program to maintain our building from water intrusion? Were these funds spent appropriately? Who should pay the estimated $750,000 for this? What preventative measures do we have to insure that we have the correct ongoing maintenance?

11. A motion to accept or reject the resolution from MM as to the structural repairs that their consultant noted in his report.
After receiving written comments from the Board/Owners consultant regarding MM consultants original recommendation to sand blast and paint the steel structure, we should take formal action on this. Do we have the steel sand blasted at a cost estimate of $100,000 or do nothing if the damage will not effect us for many years? Since MM consultant stated that the structural steel rusted because "the erected frame stood exposed to weather for approximately five years ... and the roofing membrane is reportedly original construction and there have been numerous leaks and subsequent patches". Who should pay these costs and should we seek recovery for previous repairs and damages?

12. A motion to accept or reject the offer from MM the sum of $500 per month (as a good will gesture) for the future use of the sales and marketing desk located in the Ocean Club lobby as reasonable and fair.
On 4/13/07 MM informed the Board that "income derived from outside venders in AOC lobby space rental ... si nce the inception of outside rental income has been $103,128 and was incorrectly applied to the management company..." It was also stated that this does not include the use of the 2-4 Sales & Marketing desks in the Ocean club lobby. MM stated they had a legal right to continue a sale presence in the lobby area without financial consideration according to MM legal counsel.

Our legal counsel states: "It can be debated whether these contractual "access rights" under article 5.1 of the Construction and Use Agreement (CUA) grant MVCIA the right to "conduct the sales and marketing activities from the sales desk in the AOC-lobby without having to pay rent. In the context of this articles the contractual right to "access" seems to give right to egress, right to enter upon and transit within the premises, but it does not specifically give the right to install sales desks in the lobby. "Access" to the common facilities is of a different order than occupation of the common facilities. I am not sure the CUA would give the right for annexation of portions of the common facilities for the installation of sales desks. .. Furthermore, it can be argued that the access rights, even in the elastic view of MVCIA, are applicable for the sales and marketing with respect to the resort which was the subject of the CUA...."

At a rate of $2000 to $7000 per desk paid by other vendors for lobby space per month - you can see how this would add to our bottom line. MM response is that the lobby sales desks continue to serve ;our owners and and has helped owners resell hundreds of weeks. The Resale's of our villa with Marriott's 40% commission rate has generated Millions of dollars worth of revenue for Marriott and should not be a reason not to pay for current and past use of lobby space to the Association. This is a great deal of lost revenue (could be as high as $1 million) to Owners and the Board should take action now.

13. A Motion to look at other options to MM response to the Boards resolution pertaining to the Management fee structure:

On October 17, 2007 - the Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club Board of Directors passed the following motion.
Moved: That the Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club Board of Director's initiate discussions with MVCI=2 0to amend our management agreement from its current management fee of "10% of all money that we collect pursuant to the annual budget and Maintenance fee schedule for the Ocean Club including all special assessments (not including the management fee)" to a fixed annual fee with a periodic adjustment for inflation. Per our contract this can be implemented with mutual agreement between both parties.


MM response was "MVCI is currently not agreeing to any changes in the management fee structure for AOC. Although we might consider changes in the future, we would only contemplate doing this if we were to amend the management fee structure for all MVCI resorts, not for individual resorts. ... MVCI is not obligated to do so under the terms of the current management agreement, and is not prepared to enter into any discussions and/or negotiations to this extend. Furthermore, I would like to emphasize that no changes have ever been made to the fee structure as it was first communicated to our owners at the time of purchas e. In fact, MVCI has always been very up front about the 10% management fee it charges to AOC owners, as well as to owners of most other MVCI resorts."

Most owners do not realize that our contract call for " the payment of 10% of all money MRHA is required to collect pursuant to the annual Budget and Maintenance fee schedule for the Timeshare plan and the Resort Property and special assessments, excluding for such Budget and maintenance fee schedule for purposes of such calculation the management fee hereunder." This means that for every dollar we spend and thus have to collect for we must pay an additional ten cents as part of our management fee. I do not see how any taxes, renovations, or increases in utilities fees should effect the management fee. The management fee should be based on the reasonable cost to manage the property and not other factors. MM told us that they would be working on changes for all resorts last year. No further action has been announced. We must be prepared before our 15 year contract is automatically renewed.

===============================================================================================
I hope that every Owner will support a special meeting of Owners if the Board does not act. I will be seeking action on my motions and By Law changes to insure that you will be given timely and correct information. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Allan
c20854@aol.com
301-299-2118
 

qlaval

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Finally the REAL story is out.....
 

atlcycle

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very concerned

I am very concerned with what I am hearing unfortunately blogs are NOT a dependable way of communicating usually. People tend to post VERY one sided comments that tend to not know the whole picture.

Having sat on a condo board with one board member that always wanted to put off maintenance that would cause long term damage to the building. I also hear that MM will put extreme pressure on the association to not blame them for any "things" they may have done in their own interest. This including threatening to sue the board members each personally which few people have time or money to defend.

Having said all that I think there is only two ways to resolve the problem. I support FIRST a completely open AND published arbitration (non-binding) intervention. This allowing a independent arbiter to publish information that MUST be released from BOTH parties (ie reports, Board communication, MM communication with the board and reports from any consultant brought onto the property no matter who hired them).

If either party chooses to not participate, I believe it is time to file a lawsuit against MM AND the Association Board. Remembering that based on what I have read the Board has gone secret with its communications. That is NOT THE RIGHT of the Board unless dealing with individual resident problems.

I have put my name on this communications because I am not scared of the Board or MM. I am MORE than capable of defending myself from either or both.

Rad Slough
Atlanta
 

ecwinch

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I am very concerned with what I am hearing unfortunately blogs are NOT a dependable way of communicating usually. People tend to post VERY one sided comments that tend to not know the whole picture.

Just keep in mind that 90% of the information in this thread comes from one source.

And there are two issues here that keep getting blended together. First you have the unproven claim of a defective roof/building. Nothing in this letter proves that claim.

Secondly you have the allegation that MM is controlling the BOD.

Yes, there are some questionable BOD politics going on, and Allan is loser in that race. However, as you note above, this is a one-sided interpretation of the events. And it is so rife with bias and inconsistency, that I am not going to even belabor that point.

And before the mob marches off to the altar of the courts, keep in mind one comment from Allan's letter:

"Our legal counsels have stated that many issues that MM state as fact are open to interpretation."

My experience is that this is legalese, for - "we will be happy to take this case for you, how would you like to handle the billing?".
 

OCsun

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ORIGINALLY POSTED BY ERIC - "Ok, here we go again. Has that changed since you bought ? of course not. They have been doing it that way for 20 years and you decide now, thats not the way they should do it and you are mad. Amazing logic .... When you sold a house last year , the realtor got 5% of the selling price. This year they STILL get 5% even though the selling price is probably much lower. Lots of fees are based on percentages."


Eric,

You are right! I should have taken the time to investigate how Marriott charged for the use of their name – my mistake. The comparison to a realtor, is a good example of why Marriott’s method of charging for their management is outdated. Most people have discovered you can obtain realtor services for less than 5%, if you shop around.
I paid up front for the Marriott Brand and believed maintenance fees would average 5% a year – another mistake I made. Times have changed and so have I. IMHO, the value of a discounted trading fee is not worth the high maintenance fee and not being able to curtail the increases to annual maintenance fees, is fading the value of my Marriott. If others think the Marriott name is worth the high upfront purchase price and hefty maintenance fees, great! I will rent from them. Pam
 
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Eric

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To me, the way they charge thier commission is a non issue and very common and more importantly standard in the industry. Dumping the Pres of the HOA is yet another issue :)



ORIGINALLY POSTED BY ERIC - "Ok, here we go again. Has that changed since you bought ? of course not. They have been doing it that way for 20 years and you decide now, thats not the way they should do it and you are mad. Amazing logic .... When you sold a house last year , the realtor got 5% of the selling price. This year they STILL get 5% even though the selling price is probably much lower. Lots of fees are based on percentages."


Eric,

You are right! I should have taken the time to investigate how Marriott charged for the use of their name – my mistake. The comparison to a realtor, is a good example of why Marriott’s method of charging for their management is outdated. Most people have discovered you can obtain realtor services for less than 5%, if you shop around.
I paid up front for the Marriott Brand and believed maintenance fees would average 5% a year – another mistake I made. Times have changed and so have I. IMHO, the value of a discounted trading fee is not worth the high maintenance fee and not being able to curtail the increases to annual maintenance fees, is fading the value of my Marriott. If others think the Marriott name is worth the high upfront purchase price and hefty maintenance fees, great! I will rent from them. Pam
 

marksue

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There is proof that the building is defective. Its all in the engineering report that Marriott and the board each refuse to release publicly. I have seen the Marriott report and supports that the building was defective, how else can they have corrosion onthe steel beaks due to the buildup of water and exposure to the elements, as stated int he report. If the building was not defective, why has the board and Marriott refused to make the reports available.
 

nyreguy

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If I was MVCI, I would be concerned about my reputation in the industry. If words gets out that owners are thinking of suing them, that would certainly not help their marketing efforts on their other projects including the Surf Club which is not 100% sold.

Besides the maintenance and management fee issue, there is all of the rents that they collect from the lobby stores on OUR property which they keep all of. And that includes the poolside bar and restaurant which they operate and do not pay any rent for. Sweet deal. Can you imagine how much less our maintenance fees would be if we collected the rent?

It's almost as if I built your house, sold it to you, but kept the right to rent out the garage to anyone that I want without paying you anything. I know that MVCI contributes to the common area maintenance of the Ocean Club but that is a drop in the ocean (pardon my pun).

Does this scenario bother anyone else?
 

timeos2

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Too commom and very legal (at least in the US)

If I was MVCI, I would be concerned about my reputation in the industry. If words gets out that owners are thinking of suing them, that would certainly not help their marketing efforts on their other projects including the Surf Club which is not 100% sold.

Besides the maintenance and management fee issue, there is all of the rents that they collect from the lobby stores on OUR property which they keep all of. And that includes the poolside bar and restaurant which they operate and do not pay any rent for. Sweet deal. Can you imagine how much less our maintenance fees would be if we collected the rent?

It's almost as if I built your house, sold it to you, but kept the right to rent out the garage to anyone that I want without paying you anything. I know that MVCI contributes to the common area maintenance of the Ocean Club but that is a drop in the ocean (pardon my pun).

Does this scenario bother anyone else?

You will find this at nearly every resort built since the 80's as it was common for the developer to grant themselves ongoing rights to "sales areas" with zero provisions for rent or any other type of required payment. And guess what? The clauses stand up as they are clealy included in the 400+ pages of sales disclosures everyone reads so carefully. We fought that battle at two resorts and until we were able to negotiate - not force by courts edict - a different arrangement they could and would enforce the basically free use as they had originally granted themselves. Again it is far more productive to go in with a reasonable compromise for this type of thing than a "feeling" that the dissenting group is 100% right in their interpretation and would win a court argument. In reality they are probably 50% right and that means the other side is 50% right - hmm, sounds like what a much less costly agreement might also come up with! Assuming that the "good guys" (and who that really is depends on which side you align with) will win more than half is foolish. Paying to find that out can be extremely expensive but many have to learn the hard way.
 
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colonelron

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The Good and Bad

Hi:
My wife and I bought the timeshare at 10:00Pm while they only had a spot in the Marriott hotel and have used the timeshare since 1999 and will be using it next month. The advantages we got from purchaseing the timeshare and other points have been, a free week in Amsterdam, a free week in Tel Aviv, two buisness class tickets to China, we exchanged one week in 2007 for Playa Andulza in Casa Del Sol Spain and one week in 2008 for Marbella Marriott time share in Casa Del Sol Spain.

We certainly have gotten our money's worth from the time share. Just as a note there is daily maid service and the staff in both places in Spain is definelty more accomadating and friendly. Both timeshares are nicer than the Ocean Club and have multiple pools plus beach. An example is that they printed a 20 page email for me and after signing the email they re-scanned it and emailed it to me so I could email back to the states and not have to spend money faxing it. We tried to have an email printed last year with no success. The Concierge told us not to go to Morrocco because there is no telling how long the boat takes and it is dirty and full of pick pockets and the like.

We have been going to Aruba for over 18 years. The building the Ocean Club is in was exisiting and setting vacan for many years. As a matter of fact a crane fell into the roof before the Marriott either bought or started construction.

The Marriott is a large business and as we have learned in the last couple years only looking at how much the top echelon can put in their pocket. The crap about the Aruba weather on the roof is just that. The weather in Aruba has been the same forever. It sounds like they knew about the caulking but didn't care. The window fogging is a common problem in vinyl and aluminum windows because of the expansion and contraction breaks the seals and could occur again.

Other timeshares in Aruba have had similiar dissagreements with management companies and have replaced them. We cann't replace the Marriott but a strongly held owners association/group can and should force them into being more responsible. Obviously Alan Cohen has a master list and I am sure we can get it to send emails to everyone and hopefully get a response so we would know what dircetion to take. If there is not enough people who care and further action would most likely be fruitless.

As a owner we must have some rights to see a true financial picture of what is happening and I am sure there are accountants as owners that could look it over.

Another question is how many weeks and units does the Marriott still own and control over. I have heard unofficially it is a minimum of 20% they rent and make profit on. I feel that the owners should have this information.

The lost point is that Aruba is still a great vacation place and who really cares if the rooms have new sofas. I requested washer and dryers in the rooms-much better than new sofas and cabinet fronts or double bowl vanites.
 

ecwinch

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There is proof that the building is defective. Its all in the engineering report that Marriott and the board each refuse to release publicly. I have seen the Marriott report and supports that the building was defective, how else can they have corrosion onthe steel beaks due to the buildup of water and exposure to the elements, as stated int he report. If the building was not defective, why has the board and Marriott refused to make the reports available.

Mark,

Just want to make sure I understand this. You have seen the engineering report, and Allan has not? And the report clearly states that the building was defective. Not the roof - the entire structure of the building. It is a little confusing, because in the paragraph above you seem to be reaching a conclusion based on your reading of the report.
 
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