Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[AwayWeGo]

You Are Making Assumptions About What You Think I Assusme.

You are assuming that the world revolves around TUG.

I just tell it the way it is.

My comments & observations on all this do not go beyond the bounds of the various entries in this particular discussion topic.

That says nothing about what I assume the world revolves around -- e.g., the sun.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Dave M]

Time to put this thread to bed!

I don't agree that this thread should be closed. Mark and others have raised some issues that seem legitimate, even though the discussion gets off track frequently.

Those who would like to see the thread closed don't have to read it.

 

[Luckybee]

I just tell it the way it is.

My comments & observations on all this do not go beyond the bounds of the various entries in this particular discussion topic.

That says nothing about what I assume the world revolves around -- e.g., the sun.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

You made my point for me. You are saying that the whole thing started here when you refer to what got the ball rolling. My point is it didnt start on Tug. Although I cant speak for Mark, I have never spoken with him, although I did email him once, it was only after everything happened that he spoke on TUG. In order to get a response from the board or better put, to be ignored no longer it took the steps he took. Prior to that no one was getting anywhere, not even responses from anyone.
Im not sure what the world revolves around....hubby says sometimes I think its me Funny how that goes...I always though it was him....lol

 

[marksue]

Lucky,

thank you. I could not have said it better. Like I said this started for me back in the June timeframe.

 

[m61376]

What does amaze me is that many of the non owners seem to find the boards actions here acceptable. Then again I guess there were those who thought what happened at Enron was okay too.

I can only speak for myself, but I think what many of us here are trying to say that, while Mark may be very right in theory, if he took a less antagonistic approach he might be more successful. From what I've read I think owners at the OC have a right to be very angry, but sometimes you win more flies with honey....

 

[vincenzi]

Luckybee Has a Point

In order to get a response from the board or better put, to be ignored no longer it took the steps he took. Prior to that no one was getting anywhere, not even responses from anyone.

The same is true for me. I had written an e-mail to the President of the Board stating to him my concerns but did not receive a reply from him. After reading the numerous posts on this thread that was initiated by Mark, I sent another e-mail. It was then and only then that the Board responded. Whatever the outcome, Mark, in my humble opinion has been extremely helpful in opening up the communication between the owners and the Board.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Almost But Not Just Exactly.

You are saying that the whole thing started here when you refer to what got the ball rolling.

I'm saying that I offered no comments or observations about anything other than the various entries in this 1 discussion topic.

And if you will note, most of those observations & comments, etc., had to do with diplomacy, attempts at unringing the bell, Internet sock puppetry, recycling timeshare furnishings, etc., rather than with anything to do about who's right & who's wrong.

With regard to rights & wrongs in the fuss with Marriott, I suspect that the advice freely given by Dave & John about finding a reasonable compromise will produce quicker & more satisfactory results all round than anything coming out of a court fight or resulting from efforts to oust the HOA-BOD. We'll see, eh ?

Also, I greatly admire Dave's & John's restraint, maturity of tone, & overall politeness in their contributions to the discussion. There's a reason those guys got elevated to Moderator, no ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Could Look It Up.

Like I said this started for me back in the June timeframe.

Others didn't get in on it till October 1, 2008.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[ecwinch]

If EC is paying everyone is invited.

But anytime anyone goes into a negotiation or battle you always know a lawsuit is a remote possibility.

I am not advocating a lawsuit, so Eric and EC don't say I am .

I AM JUST GIVING THE FACTS HERE SO LETS NOT GET ON RAMPAGE I AM ADVOCATING A LAWSUIT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I AM NOT. I JUST WANT TO SHARE WHAT I HAVE UNCOVERED IN CONVERSATIONS WITH LAWYERS.

Mark,

This is from your post over on timeshareforums.com on Dec. 16, 2008

"This is far from old or dead, there will be a class action suit filed against Marriott for deceptive sales practices as well as to recover the costs for all repairs due to a defective building."

And yes, everyone who posted is invited for the drink. I get to pick the bar of course. And I think it is only fitting that I post the time and location on a 3x5 card behind the check-in desk at the Ocean Club. :rofl:

Sorry Dave - could not resist that last one.

 

[ecwinch]

From my previous posts I have been accused of being a blinded Marriott fan. I am not. In fact, I own at HarbourPoint and we have recently had a number of assessments and there are some parallels with OC. Taking everything that has been said, I do believe that you have some valid complaints about how the BOD is operating and that your passion should focus on those issues. The ones I am aware of are:

1. In the BOD response, they indicate that a succession plan developed at the Jan 2008 meeting. Can the board provide the minutes of this meeting?

2. Previously, minutes for the BOD meetings were available on the owners website. They no longer seem to be available. Why were the previous minutes removed, and can we reinstate the policy of having the minutes available to owners?

3. MVCI has operated a sales office in the common areas of the OC for a number of years. What consideration has OC received for that space?

4. In the BOD response, they indicate the engineers report confirms that the building and roof are not structurally defective. As this goes to a health and safety issue that concerns all owners, can the owners be provided a copy of the report on the owners website. If this is not possible, can the BOD appoint a special committee to offer independent verification of this statement?

5. In the BOD response, they indicate that MVCI is willing to pay a portion of the roof replacement. What is the basis for MVCI doing so, and is the OC being asked to waive any legal rights in exchange for this consideration?

6. In the BOD response, they indicate that one of the reasons for increased MF is that the reserve fund was not properly funded in prior years, and the replacement costs of certain items is much higher then in the US. When was the last reserve study for the OC done, and did that reserve study take into consideration the higher cost of items/labor in Aruba. If not, when will a replacement study be conducted.

7. MVCI is currently the mgt company of the OC, working for the owners. When does their current mgt contact expire?

I think a well-crafted letter endorsed by Mark's supporters and focusing on the material issues would be the starting point. But all this innuendo about the BOD politics and the BOD being Marriot cheerleaders and puppets, detracts from the real issues. As someone else said, it makes for an interesting reality show, but it is so inflamatory that it drowns out your real issues.

And if you think you have it bad here, just pop over to the Wyndam or Worldmark forums where you have BOD's actually controlled by the developers with employees and former employees in the majority on the BOD. Even if everything said here about MVCI was true, MVCI still looks like angels in comparison.

 

[lovearuba]

To Dave

Thanks for explaining why you needed to check IP addresses. I take back my comment. I do appreciate the fact that you have tried to remain neutral and I recognize how hard that is for you. Have a great day.

 

[vincenzi]

Kudos to Dave

Dave, I want to thank you for doing such a wonderful job as Moderator. This has been a tough one. You have provided valuable information. I have learned a lot about timeshares, Board of Directors, and my rights as a owner. And, as Fox would say you have..."kept it fair and balanced".

 

[tlwmkw]

Have you tried going through Bill Marriott's office?

If you send a reasonable and diplomatic letter to Mr. Marriott's office that may be helpful. If you present your position in a well reasoned way and bring up your concerns then you may get some response, as well as some resolution. My understanding is that Mr. Marriott is an honest and ethical man and takes having his name on the company very seriously and would not allow any "funny business" to occur if he was aware of it. Of course he has a responsibility to his shareholders and needs to protect their interests but he may be helpful in this situation. I don't know how to get in touch with him but I believe others have tried to contact his office in the past. I would suggest that you should not threaten law suits when contacting him.

 

[Dave M]

I don't think a letter to Mr. Marriott would have any impact. People complain regularly about various things. Marrott can't change what it does merely because one person complains. But if 1,000 people all sent a well written letter....

 

[Zac495]

I don't think a letter to Mr. Marriott would have any impact. People complain regularly about various things. Marrott can't change what it does merely because one person complains. But if 1,000 people all sent a well written letter....

I'll help draft that letter. I'm a good writer...

 

[AOC LOVER]

My first post here -- after reading all the prior posts and the AOC timeshare documents.

I own 2 weeks at the Ocean Club, and have never traded them. I am considering buying a third week there.

I don't blame Marriott for this situation, and I think it would be better if the thread title was aimed at the BOD rather than Marriott.

Dave has wisely figured this out long ago.

There is overwhelming evidence that the BOD is not adequately representing the owners, and I am understating my true feelings on this point. However, I do not know how this situation can be corrected unless the BOD can be convinced to resign. Getting 1000 votes to convene a meeting seems almost impossible to me. Even electing new members of the Board who would effectively seek fair and reasonable dealings with Marriott is very difficult because we lack the ability to reach out to the members with information, and we probably lack the ability to coordinate and coalesce around the right people.

For sure it will take resources -- that is, time, energy and money.

It will also take focus. (I think Dave said something like this a few weeks ago.)

My suggestion is that we focus on ideas to effect change in the composition of the Board.

I haven't seen any discussion yet about what characteristics we would want in our Board members. Maybe that is a good place to start.

Also, it is not clear how the number of Board members is determined. At present there is one "A" member of the Board, and four "B" members. "B" members are the ones selected by the owners. The By laws allow up to six "B" members. I could not find in the by laws any indication of how the exact number of Board members is designated. Maybe those readers with experience at other time shares can shed some light on this.

 

[m61376]

I have found that a well written letter to the office of the president clearly explaining the problem/situation can often work wonders. Companies tend to take such letters seriously and, as Dave suggested, if many people write a similar letter it can have a big impact. The letter needs to clearly outline the issues/problems and ask for their assistance to remedy the problem(s) in a non-threatening manner.

 

[lovearuba]

Zak495

Hi
If you want to get this letter going I'll be happy to support it.

 

[ecwinch]

Dave, I want to thank you for doing such a wonderful job as Moderator. This has been a tough one. You have provided valuable information. I have learned a lot about timeshares, Board of Directors, and my rights as a owner. And, as Fox would say you have..."kept it fair and balanced".

I agree on all points - as Rush would say - Ditto....

 

[Zac495]

Hi
If you want to get this letter going I'll be happy to support it.

So let's think of the content - I'm not going to bore all of TUG with this publicly - perhaps lovearuba, Dave, and anyone else can email me and we'll talk. At least email me and say you want to see the letter upon completion. Dave, should it be to Mr. Marriott himself do you think? Where would we get the best address to use? We should send it certified mail.
I'll start with the expense and toll on the little guys (us). As for whether Marriott knew the roof was defective before, I really know if that's worthy of mention in THIS letter. He'll find out the details. I want to try to connect to him as a person. what do you think?
zac495@gmail.com
(Ellen)

 

[marksue]

Ellen,

That would be great if you want to draft the letter. Once it is done I have a list of a few hundred owners who have signed up for the special meeting who would proabably be interested in sending out the letter. Let me know if you need anything from me.

The only way to reach Mr. Marriott is through US Mail. I had done some searching on the web and was unable to come up with an email address for him. I would also send the letter to William Shaw who is the COO.

 

[Zac495]

Ellen,

That would be great if you want to draft the letter. Once it is done I have a list of a few hundred owners who have signed up for the special meeting who would proabably be interested in sending out the letter. Let me know if you need anything from me.

The only way to reach Mr. Marriott is through US Mail. I had done some searching on the web and was unable to come up with an email address for him. I would also send the letter to William Shaw who is the COO.

Thanks, Mark. I'm going to work on it over the next couple of days. I already received one pm - anyone who pm's me, I'll keep your name - but email would be easier for me to reach you - so do try to send me your email in a pm - then I can cut/paste it.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Diplomacy & Authenticity.

I have found that a well written letter to the office of the president clearly explaining the problem/situation can often work wonders. Companies tend to take such letters seriously and, as Dave suggested, if many people write a similar letter it can have a big impact. The letter needs to clearly outline the issues/problems and ask for their assistance to remedy the problem(s) in a non-threatening manner.

For purposes of effective diplomacy, it will be best if the letter does not start off saying Dear Sir, You Cur (or words to that effect).

For purposes of grassroots authenticity, it will be best if the letters don't all say exactly the same thing in exactly the same words. Lots of different letters in people's own words are apt to come across as more sincere than lots of copies of essentially the same boilerplate.

Best of success to you in reaching a workable & realistic resolution.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Zac495]

Aw Alan - me? Dear Sir? LOL. I have my own creative flair. I'll sound totally different. NOT saying I'll be any more successful than the others, but I'm going to give it the old college try.

Those who are already on Mark's distribution list - no need to email me - I'll send him the letter and he'll send it through you. Despite the little incident - we're all in this together.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Please add me to the unfortunate list of those here..

Hi,

I purchased earlier this year.. and got the fright of my life with the increase in the Maint. I own a 1 BR which was $850 or so, now $1250 or so.

Reading through a lot of what was posted.. I think what is stated below is really applicable. We are all in this together. It is actually good for Marriott to have division here. Let's unify on a couple of things:

1. There is no way in hell we should be faced with a 40% + increase. This is the worst economic time in our history.

2. Let's determine if the sales people did in fact know there was an issue on this last year. If so, isn't it misrepresentation not to inform new purchasers that this is going on?

3. Address the issue formally, and in writing from a large community here to Marriott to outline one and two.. and to then suggest this type of increase should not be passed down.. particularly in the economic climate we are in.

4. Address the BOD concerns.

Thanks for including me on your list

Aw Alan - me? Dear Sir? LOL. I have my own creative flair. I'll sound totally different. NOT saying I'll be any more successful than the others, but I'm going to give it the old college try.

Those who are already on Mark's distribution list - no need to email me - I'll send him the letter and he'll send it through you. Despite the little incident - we're all in this together.