Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[Dave M]

And as I have always been saying, it is not what any of us want. But action fo last resort. I have said that over and over. SO I ahvent been taking anything back.

I just don't believe that's true. Nowhere in your first posts on this forum in the early part of October did you suggest that a lawsuit would be a "last resort" or anything other than your primary focus.

 

[marksue]

Dave you will pick out what you want. I have been saying for the longest time that a lawsuit was the action of last resort.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You're Kidding, Right ?

Dave you will pick out what you want. I have been saying for the longest time that a lawsuit was the action of last resort.

What do you mean Pick Out What You Want ?

The bottom line in Entry 1 on Day 1 was an invitation for folks to let you know if they're interested in pursuing a class action lawsuit.

You could look it up.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[marksue]

And read the rest of my posts as time went on. You can say what you want I know what I have posted so slam me all you want. Why not post the times I said it is the last resort. Of course you won't.

Last I will say about this I have made myself quite clear.

I will stick to the topocs I posted before this ridiculous tangent.

 

[Dave M]

No one has suggested that you didn't eventually say that a lawsuit is a last resort. You did. However, that's much different than the mistatement you made earlier today...

And as I have always been saying, it is not what any of us want. But action fo last resort.

Being straightforward with the people you hope will join your cause is just as important for you to do as it is for the Board. It takes a tall man to admit having made a mistake.

 

[lovearuba]

pick on mark day

Sounds like pick on Mark day. Can we stop accusing folks and stick to the issues orignally raised and whether or not people still feel additional steps will help our cause.

 

[Eric]

Its still amazes me at how hard of a time you are having, grasping what people are posting. There was no accusations, they are just reminding Mark what his original intent of the thread was. He was looking for people to join in on a lawsuit. Do you want a cut n paste to refresh your memory ?

here it is::

Let me know if you are interested in pursuing a class action suit against Marriott.



Mark

Sounds like pick on Mark day. Can we stop accusing folks and stick to the issues orignally raised and whether or not people still feel additional steps will help our cause.

 

[arubafan1]

I got the link to this site from an email. Being an owner I have been reading all these posts with a great deal of interest. It is quite obvious to me there is a group of owners who have strong feelings about the Ocean Club problems. Being an owner as well, I am not happy about this high increase and assessments. I have been aware of many of the problems mentioned and had called Marriott on numerous occasions. I am hoping something can be worked out to reduce the amount I am going to have to pay out. I have written to the board and not yet received any responses from them.

I also see a people like Eric and Dave being quite negative and antagonistic to the owners who post here. This battle regarding law suits, and who says what, is so stupid. I have read what marksue has said and yes his initial email talks about a lawsuit, but his statement prior to that line talks about getting enough owners to contact customer care and maybe if enough people speak up Marriott will do the right think. I also noticed throughout his posts where he did say he didn’t want a lawsuit but it was the last thing anyone wanted. Why what he initially stated means anything when he has been clear since that. I would look at the messages throughout and he is saying he would prefer to not have a lawsuit.

My personal opinion is that Eric, Dave and others have their own personal agenda to discredit this effort and the owners who are posting here. I personally think the owners who are posting here have more credibility then the non-owners. The owners are living this nightmare and I do not believe you non-owners really get it.

 

[dioxide45]

What is trying to be pointed out is that once you make the threat of a lawsuit you really can't go back on that. You will have a hard time getting anyone on the other side to work with you to resolve issues. You can say you have gone back on that as much as you want but the threat is still there.

 

[Eric]

Most negative things had to do with "THE WAY" it was being handled and some less than real world solutions. Nobody wants to see the fees stay that high if it can be helped. For the record, you don't have to actually own Ocean Club to understand it, I swear.

I got the link to this site from an email. Being an owner I have been reading all these posts with a great deal of interest. It is quite obvious to me there is a group of owners who have strong feelings about the Ocean Club problems. Being an owner as well, I am not happy about this high increase and assessments. I have been aware of many of the problems mentioned and had called Marriott on numerous occasions. I am hoping something can be worked out to reduce the amount I am going to have to pay out. I have written to the board and not yet received any responses from them.

I also see a people like Eric and Dave being quite negative and antagonistic to the owners who post here. This battle regarding law suits, and who says what, is so stupid. I have read what marksue has said and yes his initial email talks about a lawsuit, but his statement prior to that line talks about getting enough owners to contact customer care and maybe if enough people speak up Marriott will do the right think. I also noticed throughout his posts where he did say he didn’t want a lawsuit but it was the last thing anyone wanted. Why what he initially stated means anything when he has been clear since that. I would look at the messages throughout and he is saying he would prefer to not have a lawsuit.

My personal opinion is that Eric, Dave and others have their own personal agenda to discredit this effort and the owners who are posting here. I personally think the owners who are posting here have more credibility then the non-owners. The owners are living this nightmare and I do not believe you non-owners really get it.

 

[m61376]

What is going on at the Ocean Club affects every Marriott owner, at least potentially, because setting a precedent is a hard thing to undo. I think that's why this thread has generated so much interest in part.

That said, I don't think Dave's comments were meant as attacks or to further a personal agenda; in his usual fashion, he was trying to instill a sense of diplomacy. Anger and frustration can lend itself to being like a bull in a china shop, and nothing good comes out of it. While the thought of a lawsuit being necessary down the road might have been in the back of a lot of minds, verbalizing it has effectively made Marriott close its ranks, so to speak, and it may be much more difficult going forward than if that threat was never aired.

I, as well as many others here, give Mark a lot of credit for trying to get something done, but I hope he hasn't injured his cause by taking such an animus position. As posted above, once a lawsuit is threatened, the threat can't be taken back and people (in this case the Marriott reps and the Board) will likely act accordingly.

 

[Dave M]

I got the link to this site from an email.

I think there is a new low in this thread. "arubafan1" and Mark ("marksue") post from the same computer. No one else other than Mark has posted from the same computer as arubafan1.

I'll let readers draw their own conclusions.

 

[Eric]

Mark,

You credibility went from bad to worse. If I did own at Ocean Club, I would not want you to represent me in any way , shape of form. As far as I am concerned, you have hurt the Ocean Club owners case.

I think there is a new low in this thread. "arubafan1" and Mark ("marksue") post from the same computer. No one else other than Mark has posted from the same computer as arubafan1.

I'll let readers draw their own conclusions.

 

[AwayWeGo]

That Eases My Guilty Conscience A Bit.

I'll let readers draw their own conclusions.

Whoa !

My conscience was beating me up for wondering whether those 2 might be 1 & the same.

Of course, I have no way to know who's sending in stuff from what computers, so I wrote off my suspicion as 1 more manifestation of the defects in my own character.

So in a tiny & semi-insignificant way, it's a relief to know that possibly my unworthy thoughts weren't so unworthy after all.

A TUG-BBS sock puppet -- who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Luckybee]

No one has suggested that you didn't eventually say that a lawsuit is a last resort. You did. However, that's much different than the mistatement you made earlier today... Being straightforward with the people you hope will join your cause is just as important for you to do as it is for the Board. It takes a tall man to admit having made a mistake.

Perceptions are an amazing thing. It was abundantly clear to me and I expect to most "owners" that the "lawsuit" Mark was discussing was the last resort. But lets talk about what we do know.

1. For a lenghty period of time the board had been in discussions with Marriott about what the board felt were some significant concerns surrounding the Ocean Club including roof, windows, use of space etc. etc., as evidenced by the material that "used to be" on the web site.
2 All owners were able to have any info available to the board provided to them by the board and everyone was living happily ever after. Questions posed were always responded to.
3 The board had made a motion to continue the presidents tenure on the board
4 The discussions suddenly ceased
5 The president was removed without any prior knowledge to him. Prior motions were withdrawn
6 The maintenance fees went up significantly
7 An information lockdown took place..the board wouldnt answer questions posed both by pnhone and in writing, all info was removed from website, the new president refused to attend the meeting(very unusual). The new president and board would not answer any questions about anything and directed all enquiries to the general manager who still, as of 4 days ago is giving out contradictory info
8 The "new" board seems to take the position that they represent Marriott
9 AFTER all this happened Mark began "rallying the troops" to try to accomplish something

The chronology here is important. Many non owners who were not aware of exactly what went on here seem to be implying that the board was reacting to Marks comments and not providing info because of them. I'd venture a guess that had the board not acted in the manner in which they did Mark would have had no comments to make. But for Mark threatenting a lawsuit, and/or threatening to get the 10% of votes needed to call the meeting the board would simply still be ignoring owners. By the time he came on Tug and made the comments he made the damage was already done. The actions of the board were pretty transparent by then. Many of the "owners" are grateful that he took the steps he has taken.

What does amaze me is that many of the non owners seem to find the boards actions here acceptable. Then again I guess there were those who thought what happened at Enron was okay too.

 

[Eric]

[Edited to delete unsupported accusation that runs afoul of the "Be Courteous" posting rule. Dave M, BBS Moderator]

 

[Dave M]

I should modify my above comment to:

"arubafan1" and Mark ("marksue") appear to post from the same computer.

Like DNA evidence, there is, in this case, a slim chance that they aren't posting from the same computer. However, of the more than 31,000 BBS registrants, they are the only two who have posted from the I.P. address used by arubafan1.

 

[timeos2]

Pay attention as to why

1. For a lenghty period of time the board had been in discussions with Marriott about what the board felt were some significant concerns surrounding the Ocean Club including roof, windows, use of space etc. etc., as evidenced by the material that "used to be" on the web site.

You skipped the part where an INDEPENDENT outside engineering firm was done and, apparently after review of that professional document (s?), the majority of the Board decided that the offer by Marriott was fair. That is how an informed Board - not shooting from the hip or actions based on guesses - should do things. Get outside advice, weigh the options and move ahead. Sounds perfect to me and if I were an owner that would be the process I would want to know occurred. Does the Board have to release those studies? No, but it would be nice if they made it available to any owner who wanted to sit down and look at them. They certainly don't have to publicize it as it would be an internal document.

As repeatedly stated the answer may not be the one desired but that doesn't mean its wrong or somehow tainted. It may be the most reasonable and result in a cost to owners as most repairs/maintenance/upgrades will. Nothing is free and the Board is the group charged with operating and maintaining the resort as your representatives. By all means let them know your opinions but threats carry less than no weight and are usaully counterproductive. This whole appraoch started with the ultimate threat (since toned down but the bell already rang...)

 

[jm2020]

Mark,
I have not been able to read all the posts listed for the AOC. However, for those I have read, I have not seen any reference to another major issue facing the Owners.

Due to the leaky roof, which has been leaking for some 10 plus years, a mold and mildew incursion exists in the Ocean Club property. Mold and mildew constitutes a health hazard which could be of great proportion to all occupants but particularly to those more sensitive to such polluting factors. Obviously, ill-health could be a result, and even worse. Mold and mildew are insidious by nature.

In addition, due to the incursion of water, the internal steel structure has rusted and affected to some undetermined degree of integrity.

I chose to advise you of this in the TUG format as opposed to a private Email in order to make this information known to a wider, and possibily concerned or even affected, audience.

This is probably another issue the AOC Board and Marriott management wishes to remain contained.

 

[lovearuba]

Question for Dave

Do you check all postings to see if this was done or is it just ones where you feel Mark wrote it? Sounds bias to me

 

[Dave M]

lovearuba -

It was not a witch hunt of any kind. I received several Private Messages with accusations. So I did the I.P. search. It wouldn't have occurred to me to consider doing that. Based on what I found and posted above, I have searched I.P. addresses for every poster in this thread - both owners and nonowners - who registered for the BBS after the date this thread was started. I found no other indications of posts from one I.P. address by multiple user names.

Those who have followed all of my posts in this thread will recall that I am neutral regarding the overall issue. I'm not an owner at Ocean Club, but I have stated repeatedly that I believe the issues raised in this thread seem legitimate and should be resolved.

I have edited and deleted inappropriate posts by both owners and by those who believe that something is wrong with the approach that has been taken here (i.e., on both "sides" that have been taken here). I have called some "opponents" to task for a lack of understanding or accuracy (e.g. challenges to Mark's accurate description of how to call a special meeting for the purpose of considering the recall of one or more directors).

Although I have challenged some owners in this thread on various specifics, not about the validity of the issues, that in no way signals that I am an opponent of the effort. To the contrary, I hope a way can be found to resolve these big issues in a manner that makes everyone somewhat - but not hugely - unhappy. That's what a compromise generally does.

 

[Luckybee]

You skipped the part where an INDEPENDENT outside engineering firm was done and, apparently after review of that professional document (s?), the majority of the Board decided that the offer by Marriott was fair. That is how an informed Board - not shooting from the hip or actions based on guesses - should do things. Get outside advice, weigh the options and move ahead. Sounds perfect to me and if I were an owner that would be the process I would want to know occurred. Does the Board have to release those studies? No, but it would be nice if they made it available to any owner who wanted to sit down and look at them. They certainly don't have to publicize it as it would be an internal document.

As repeatedly stated the answer may not be the one desired but that doesn't mean its wrong or somehow tainted. It may be the most reasonable and result in a cost to owners as most repairs/maintenance/upgrades will. Nothing is free and the Board is the group charged with operating and maintaining the resort as your representatives. By all means let them know your opinions but threats carry less than no weight and are usaully counterproductive. This whole appraoch started with the ultimate threat (since toned down but the bell already rang...)

I didnt skip that part at all....more questions arose as a result of that report...are you truly aware of the contents of that report, and the others? I dont think it serves us(the owners) well to get into the specifics here so I wont, but perhaps before you refer to something you should be sure of what your referring to.

I also disagree with you in regards to your last sentence. The whole approach started not with the "ultimate threat" but rather with the "board" refusing to be accountable to owners, and rather being concerned only with Marriott. That was the point of my last post. The chronolgy here is very important and should not be overlooked, although I see that the Marriott apologists wish to do just that. IT was AFTER everything happened that Mark began his fight. Im sure it would be easier for the Marriott cheerleaders to believe otherwise(I used to be one of those btw). I am firmly convinced that if Mark had not raised the issues in the manner in which he did, the owners would still be ignored. I am also truly saddened by what has gone on here because my faith in Marriott no longer exsists. Dh and I were debating between a condo and a significant number of other weeks for retirement purposes. Although the costs are much higher, given what we have seen here it has become a no brainer for us. I had 2 friends who were going on a freinds share promo(not to the OC but other Marriott properties), 1 of whom has cancelled outright, another of whom I have told not to purchase under any circumstances. Another friend was lookin at resales having been to the property twice. I have strongly suggested they not purchase at this time and they are taking my advice. This doesnt make me happy, but having talked up the property for years to friends and colleagues I owe them honesty and I would have a difficult time living with myself if they were to buy given what I now know to be true. I used to say that Marriott was different than the timeshares that have the "reputation". Sadly I dont feel that way any longer.

I for one am certainly grateful that Mark decided to fight the fight. Everyone else(myself included) probably would have been far too apathetic and simply let the stuff go. That is unfortunate because as I said before , this is how unscrupulous activity never gets brought into the light.

 

[AwayWeGo]

How Can You Say That ?

The whole approach started not with the "ultimate threat" but rather with the "board" refusing to be accountable to owners, and rather being concerned only with Marriott.

The bottom line, literally, in the original entry that got this ball rolling was an invitation for people to let the originator know if they're interested in pursuing a class action lawsuit.

The soft-pedaling & diplomacy & sharing of information -- such as they were -- came later.

You could look it up.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[iamnotshopgirl]

Hey Dave

Time to put this thread to bed! You got both sides of the story. Does not matter what side your on enough is enough. Twenty pages of this topic. What had to be said was said. I'm not an owner. I'm not reading the posts for information now...I'm reading it for the snipes and other sarcasims. I don't think (respectfully) that you can be neutral in this scituation even though you (Dave) have tried to be IMHO. Let it run it's course...get your lawyers and file the law suit...then you'll get your decision. Your not going to get one in this thread.

bob

 

[Luckybee]

The bottom line, literally, in the original entry that got this ball rolling was an invitation for people to let the originator know if they're interested in pursuing a class action lawsuit.

The soft-pedaling & diplomacy & sharing of information -- such as they were -- came later.

You could look it up.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

You are assuming that the world revolves around TUG. Things happened before TUG was involved. The "board" took various steps. As a result of what happened after as I indicated in the earlier post Mark and others tried to have things accomplished . They got nowhere. THEN he came to TUG. Believe it or not the whole situation didnt just start here