Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[ecwinch]

So that is why you see me pan the responses by the board. They are not answering the hard questions.

I think if you go back to beginning of this thread, you will find your "hard" questions are a moving target. They have delivered two lengthy responses to your hard questions - one general in nature and one more specifically aimed at the questions you raised. Clearly this issue is consuming some portion of their limited time. Now you have a slightly different set of questions. Since you clearly have their attention, my recommendation is that you follow the same process, and ask them follow-ups to any new questions you have in the proper format. But do not belabor items they have answered or answers that you do not like. For instance:

There is no resale value today for the Ocean Club. Why would you buy a unit at the Ocean club when you can pay almost the same price and save 500 in MF from the surf club?

Not really an issue the BOD can respond to. The BOD only indirectly influences the resale value of the OC, but providing good stewardship of the resources at hand. They have no control on the economic situation in the US. Also see other threads regarding significant drops in resale prices of most MVCI properties.

Yes the letter says this was a planned switching of power. I can not reveal how I know but I do. Allan was forced out as president. He was forced out the day prior to the owners meeting; he was caught completely off guard. You could see how uncomfortable he was presenting to the owners. Frank wasn't even at the meeting. Allan also had to let Marriott answer most of the questions.

So this statement from their response is inaccurate:

"During the January 2008 Board of Directors Meeting, the Board developed a succession plan to ensure a seamless transition from Mr. Cohen’s long and distinguished service to a new administration."

So at the Jan 2008 meeting, no succession plan was developed, and Mr. Cohen did not participate in the development of the plan. I think, the timing and mechanics of how the plan was executed is really not germane to the conversation unless you are Allan Cohen or a close relative.

Why in the papers for a lawsuit they said the building was defective, but now they don't. I and others want to know why the discrepancy.

I really think they answered this in the section regarding the roof and in "Does the Board represent Owners or does it represent Marriott Vacation Club?". In the initial demand letter, they used strong language to characterize the building, as you will often do in such cases. It does not make that characterization a fact. Now after reflection and reviewing the engineers report, they have decided to pursue a different course of action, and have been successful in obtaining financial concessions from MVCI. In light of the uncertainity of legal proceedings this might be the prudent course of action, but can always be second-guessed.

Why was a board member not aware of this document, why is a board member not given access to the email sent to the board’s mailbox. Tells you that if you support the owners you are blocked and your opinion does not matter.

I think this is an internal board issue. I assume Allan would ask this question of the board. Since you and he are in communication, what answer did they give him? On a side note, having multiple people with access to a single mailbox raises it own set of challenges. And I why would every e-mail be provided to every Board member.

Why has the board refused to share with owners the engineers report on the roof and building? There is a lot of info they do not want us to know

When was the request made and what response did they provide to the requestor? If you have specific information on what is in the report to support your assertion that they are hiding information - then provide it.

Again, I will reiterate my point that you are viewing every response they provide as validation that they are MVCI "puppets". I do not think you are objectively viewing the responses they are providing.

 

[marksue]

You are entitled to you opinion. thanks

 

[marksue]

To all the supporters, adversaries and those just passing through I want to wish you all a happy and healthy holiday season. Enjoy your time with family and friends.


Mark

 

[luvmypt]

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[lovearuba]

Happy Holidays to you Mark

Many thanks for keeping this alive. Have wonderful holiday season.

 

[Luckybee]

misquoted to be replaced

 

[Luckybee]

So this statement from their response is inaccurate:

"During the January 2008 Board of Directors Meeting, the Board developed a succession plan to ensure a seamless transition from Mr. Cohen’s long and distinguished service to a new administration."

So at the Jan 2008 meeting, no succession plan was developed, and Mr. Cohen did not participate in the development of the plan. I think, the timing and mechanics of how the plan was executed is really not germane to the conversation unless you are Allan Cohen or a close relative.

Yes you are right, the statement from the board(better phrased as "part" of the board, and Marriott ) is not accurate. Pure and simple ! When the president doesnt know he's being ousted, I wouldnt say thats a plan . At least not one meant to "ensure a seamless transition". It is these kinds of mistatements that have led to the mistrust in the first place, and quite frankly why I personally have trouble with anything that faction of the board are saying. If someone says three things to me, and I know they arent being truthful about the first of the three, but I have little info about the other last two, I am likely to be skeptical about the last two, because after all they arent being honest about the first one. Same scenario here. Not once have those members of the board answered for why they handled his removal(and make no mistake it was a removal) in the manner in which they did, nor why they then placed a lockdown on info provided to the owners immediately afterwards. Trust me Im not him, nor am I a relative but I certainly think that this is very relevant to all of the owners. There is only one possible explanation for why this was done, and one only, and that is for the members to not get the info that he was providing. Yes that worries me alot.

On a more immediate note, Happy holidays to all

 

[marksue]

Very true lucky. And why all of a sudden do they not want to speak directlywith owners and why is Allan not allowed to see emails sent to the address they say to send email.

Tells you something when a board member doesn't even know the board is sending out a letter.

 

[timeos2]

Yes you are right, the statement from the board(better phrased as "part" of the board, and Marriott ) is not accurate. Pure and simple ! When the president doesnt know he's being ousted, I wouldnt say thats a plan . At least not one meant to "ensure a seamless transition". It is these kinds of mistatements that have led to the mistrust in the first place, and quite frankly why I personally have trouble with anything that faction of the board are saying. If someone says three things to me, and I know they arent being truthful about the first of the three, but I have little info about the other last two, I am likely to be skeptical about the last two, because after all they arent being honest about the first one. Same scenario here. Not once have those members of the board answered for why they handled his removal(and make no mistake it was a removal) in the manner in which they did, nor why they then placed a lockdown on info provided to the owners immediately afterwards. Trust me Im not him, nor am I a relative but I certainly think that this is very relevant to all of the owners. There is only one possible explanation for why this was done, and one only, and that is for the members to not get the info that he was providing. Yes that worries me alot.

On a more immediate note, Happy holidays to all

A Board member doesn't have to have a title to disseminate information. President or not he knows what is going on and can present his view. Even when President, unless he's releasing a Board approved message, he was speaking for himself. Who is President has very little to no impact on owners.

 

[ecwinch]

Yes you are right, the statement from the board(better phrased as "part" of the board, and Marriott ) is not accurate.

I just want to understand this. You specifically know that there was not a plan developed in the Jan 2008 meeting. The board is lying about this fact.

Your response seems to focused on the timing of the plan rather then the fact that a plan was developed. I infer from MarkSue's previous post that Allan had no idea that the BOD had set a timetable for executing the plan - i.e. that they were going to do so prior to the meeting.

But that is different then the fact that the BOD had developed a transition plan.

More and more, those issues seem related to internal board politics. How and why the BOD president was replaced, and who has access to a board mailbox. That is a much different issue then a BOD that is not properly fulfilling their fiduciary responsibility to the HOA. While you may use one issue to support your opinions on the other, it does not make a fact.

If you are correct - that no plan was previously discussed, and they are lying in their public disclosures, then I think you should throw them out on their ear on that issue alone. If they are in fact lying about the simple stuff, then they cannot be trusted to make the hard decisions on the tough issues your resort faces.

 

[ecwinch]

I think better to speak with owner & deal this and I know that board members doesn't have a title to desseminate information.I don't think about
President!!unless he's releasing a Board approved message !!

Please clarify your message - it is not clear.

 

[ecwinch]

why is Allan not allowed to see emails sent to the address they say to send email.

Tells you something when a board member doesn't even know the board is sending out a letter.

One possible scenario is when you have a board member that is providing e-mail addresses to third-parties that were accumulated in his official capacity as a member of the BOD. Then you would definitely want to limit his access to the e-mail system to reduce his capability to accumulate additional addresses. This would only be a prudent thing to do, as to limit the potential exposure of the BOD for failing to safeguard the e-mail addresses of the members.

Just a thought.... or opinion.

 

[marksue]

EC, not sure what your goal is in here since you don't own at the Ocean Club, but you seem to chanllenge anyone who has something negative to say against Marriott or the board. It is easy for an outsider to say the board is responding etc. The owners know better. What the board is saying is the same thing Dirk and Troy, from Marriott, were saying at the board meeting. The board hasn't even answered the questions the owners are asking.

Ocean Club owners know when they hear Marriott speaking. So many owners have written and said this sounds just like Marriott speaking when they go tthe board letter. When MVCI was talking to owners it is exactly what they said on the phone

Why does the board, who is pro MArriott, not allow,Allan who is pro owner, know that a letter is going out?

 

[Luckybee]

If you are correct - that no plan was previously discussed, and they are lying in their public disclosures, then I think you should throw them out on their ear on that issue alone. If they are in fact lying about the simple stuff, then they cannot be trusted to make the hard decisions on the tough issues your resort faces.

Now perhaps you understand

 

[Luckybee]

One possible scenario is when you have a board member that is providing e-mail addresses to third-parties that were accumulated in his official capacity as a member of the BOD. Then you would definitely want to limit his access to the e-mail system to reduce his capability to accumulate additional addresses. This would only be a prudent thing to do, as to limit the potential exposure of the BOD for failing to safeguard the e-mail addresses of the members.

Just a thought.... or opinion.

Only problem with your theory is that the board member in question had his access limited BEFORE this stuff started(in other words, before any members were being contacted by email ). So your reasoning wouldnt make sense under the circumstances....want to guess again?

 

[dioxide45]

EC, not sure what your goal is in here since you don't own at the Ocean Club, but you seem to chanllenge anyone who has something negative to say against Marriott or the board.

If you don't want to hear opinions from everyone then this should be taken to a Yahoo group or something that can be limited to only owners at OC. You post in an open forum that is open to even non TS owners, you will get many responses, many you like and others you don't. You always seem to challenge anyone who has something good to say about Marriott.:ignore:

 

[marksue]

I have no porblem with anyone posting. I challenge people who don't understand what is happening at the Ocean CLub and the anger of so many owners. Its ok to question, but when you don't know the facts of what has occured at the OC, and understand how we have lost transparency and how Marriott is actually controlling our board, not sure you can question what people are saying. When myself and other owners explain what the issues are and what has occured at teh Ocean CLub, and you say it is not true that is the issue I have. We have lived it for months.

 

[Eric]

Mark,

First off let me address the fact that people have said you should run for the HOA. In my opinion you would be terrible, no offense. Your diplomacy stinks and you accusations at Marriott would have you looking for a new managing partner quickly. That said, I don't think anyone is happy about the big increases but your bull in a china shop attitude will get you no where. I will bet money on that !! You can change HOA members all you want but Marriott’s stance will not change IMHO. Most of the changes have been explained. Replacing a roof after 14 years and saying it was defect day 1 makes no sense. A judge would tell you, how bad was the roof if it lasted 14 years ? The fact that you don't want the updates now is great but you don't speak for the HOA. I like a good fight as good as the next person but you will probably cause more harm than good when all is said and done.

EC, not sure what your goal is in here since you don't own at the Ocean Club, but you seem to chanllenge anyone who has something negative to say against Marriott or the board. It is easy for an outsider to say the board is responding etc. The owners know better. What the board is saying is the same thing Dirk and Troy, from Marriott, were saying at the board meeting. The board hasn't even answered the questions the owners are asking.

Ocean Club owners know when they hear Marriott speaking. So many owners have written and said this sounds just like Marriott speaking when they go tthe board letter. When MVCI was talking to owners it is exactly what they said on the phone

Why does the board, who is pro MArriott, not allow,Allan who is pro owner, know that a letter is going out?

 

[marksue]

LIke i said if you are not an owner you don't understand what is going on at the ocean club. It is not just a roof we are talking about. Eric, I really don't care what you think about my diplomacy, I don't need or want your approval. I will keep my comments to myself cause I know if I wrote what I wanted the message would be deleted, hows that for diplomacy.

Say what you like I will continue what I am doing, say what I am saying and continue this fight as long as it takes. We the owners want and deserve transparency. Marriott needs to come clean on what they know about the building. If they are so sure there was no problem, let Marriott release the engineering report they had done. They won't cause it would prove what is being said here.

 

[Eric]

I realize maybe I don't have the super top secret info you have but to most people its pretty clear. Don't worry, saying bad words to me are not that scary so I am sure I could handle it ! LOL
As far as reports and anything else you want, as soon as they did, you would say they are doctored so what's the point. My suggestion would be sell your units because you are spinning your wheels.

LIke i said if you are not an owner you don't understand what is going on at the ocean club. It is not just a roof we are talking about. Eric, I really don't care what you think about my diplomacy, I don't need or want your approval. I will keep my comments to myself cause I know if I wrote what I wanted the message would be deleted, hows that for diplomacy.

Say what you like I will continue what I am doing, say what I am saying and continue this fight as long as it takes. We the owners want and deserve transparency. Marriott needs to come clean on what they know about the building. If they are so sure there was no problem, let Marriott release the engineering report they had done. They won't cause it would prove what is being said here.

 

[Dave M]

....Marriott is actually controlling our board....

There is no way that Marriott can control Board decisions unless Marriott has the majority of Board members. They certainly didn't control the Board when the Board threatened to sue Marriott earlier this year. Even you seem to contradict that quoted statement by conceding that the Board (except for Allen) is acting like you believe Marriott would ("pro Marriott").

However, you can safely bet every last dollar that you have that some high-paid attorneys, probably Marriott's attorneys, are making strong recommendations to the Board that they carefully limit what they say in communications to owners. You can probably thank yourself for that. Any time someone publicly threatens legal action against a Board, as you have threatened, those who might become defendants (and that includes all Board members) must carefully consider the words that they disseminate out of concern that such words might get misinterpreted and come back to haunt them in a courtroom.

And the answer to your oft repeated question about why Allen is being left out of the loop is in my previous paragraph and in your own statements. He is trying to do things that are counter to decisions the Board has made. Thus, you can bet that legal counsel has authorized the Board to leave him out of the loop. He can challenge that decision in court if he wishes, but he has an uphill battle. No one can order the Board to make him an outcast. The Board did that themselves.

You have received some excellent advice in this thread. And a fair number of non-owners who understand some of the legal issues you are dealing with and the science of effective communication have given such advice. But it's apparent that you believe any non-owner is incapable of providing any useful advice. You seem to refuse to believe that there is any way to get what you want to accomplish other than bad-mouthing both Marriott and the Board at every opportunity. I believe that's too bad - for you and for the owners for whom you could provide a very useful service.

 

[Retired to Travel]

Dave deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for moderating this thread. Seriously, thank you, Dave, for treading the fine line. You know my privately expressed opinion.

 

[marksue]

I have heard what people have said, and I have followed some of the advice, but at the same time Marriott wants me and others to be quite and go away. We wont., and if attacking MVCI is what I need to do I will continue until the owners get what is righfully thiers.

The board has continued refused to give all the facts to the owners, the board has called the building defective and now says it isnt defective. They have yet to responded to any owner as to why they no longer think the building is defective. There are documents out there that prove that the extended exposure to the environment and failure to correct roof leak problems, has caused building issues.


They have stated Marriott has not paid thier fair share for the common space and the revenue from the stores. That issues has yet to be resolved, yet the board no longer talks about it.

Long before this thread started, this issue was being dealt with by me and others diplomatically with Marriott. They wanted nothing to do with it and basically said it is what it is and nothing is going to change. So thsi thread was born.

 

[marksue]

Eric, you want to buy my units, they are for sale. If I could sell them I would. I have been trying to sell for months, but there is no market for them.

 

[Eric]

no thanks. I hear there may be a lawsuit pending that will cost the HOA more money and raise owner costs even higher.

Eric, you want to buy my units, they are for sale. If I could sell them I would. I have been trying to sell for months, but there is no market for them.