Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[jimf41]

Over 20,000 reads and 500 posts. Can we end it now. It's fascinating to see people vent . Just like reality TV. Nothing more to be discussed. No more new information to be disclosed. Can we just end this now?

 

[billymach4]

I for one find this thread very educating. Nobody is compelled to continue to read. Why close this thread? Obviously this issue has really hit a raw nerve on both sides of the issue. Please do not close.

 

[lovearuba]

change is not easy

Marksue is working hard to keep owners aware of what is happening. I am not surprised there is a lot of razzing going on because folks are uncomfortable that their cherished Marriott is taking some heat. You can defend Marriott. If you don't own at the ocean club and you are not paying these fees and paying some of them for a building that leaks like a sieve when it rains then you may not be able to appreciate the situation. The leaking started before many of us bought the place. It really should have been fixed by Marriott, that would have taken one of the most important trust issues off the table.

A lot of folks are suggesting the thread be closed. I think you may be afraid that your timeshares that have Marriott names will be less valuable if people come to this site and see what happened to ocean club owners. Your values are going down and will continue because of the economy alone. Marriott Owners do have a right to know and we are using this thread to keep the message alive. Regardless of what you may think there are plenty of folks that appreciate the thread. Some folks actually see humor in the situation. That is unfortunate. I would have a hard time seeing humor in a situation as sad as this.

 

[Eric]

Really ? that's what you see going on here ? You have a completly different take than Dave. I wonder which person, people tend to think makes the most sense ?

Marksue is working hard to keep owners aware of what is happening. I am not surprised there is a lot of razzing going on because folks are uncomfortable that their cherished Marriott is taking some heat. You can defend Marriott. If you don't own at the ocean club and you are not paying these fees and paying some of them for a building that leaks like a sieve when it rains then you may not be able to appreciate the situation. The leaking started before many of us bought the place. It really should have been fixed by Marriott, that would have taken one of the most important trust issues off the table.

A lot of folks are suggesting the thread be closed. I think you may be afraid that your timeshares that have Marriott names will be less valuable if people come to this site and see what happened to ocean club owners. Your values are going down and will continue because of the economy alone. Marriott Owners do have a right to know and we are using this thread to keep the message alive. Regardless of what you may think there are plenty of folks that appreciate the thread. Some folks actually see humor in the situation. That is unfortunate. I would have a hard time seeing humor in a situation as sad as this.

 

[Eric]

!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zac495]

I trust Dave. He's wise.
I think Marksue is trying to help - I have no idea if it will help or not help. I'm a clueless second grade teacher.

I do wonder why Eric hates Marksue - that's the way it seems to me, Eric.
Dave is very diplomatic in disagreeing with Marksue - his posts and Marksue's interest me. Marksue has OC members' interests (and his own) at heart - right or wrong.

Dave is a sweetie who disagrees with Marksue and makes his points without being unpleasant.

Eric seems to want to show that Marksue is wrong in a mean way.

This is Ellen the teacher wanting everyone to disagree in an agreeable way.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Diplomacy.

This is Ellen the teacher wanting everyone to disagree in an agreeable way.

Diplomacy has been defined as the art of telling people to go to hell in such a nice way that they look forward to the trip.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Dave M]

A lot of folks are suggesting the thread be closed.

Most other threads on this BBS that include the type of bickering that has transpired in this thread would have been closed long before now. However, the issues that have been raised in this thread deserve discussion, as long as the discussion is civil.

I have had to edit and delete more posts in this thread than in any other, but I will close it only if absolutely necessary. The previous warnings I have given should be clear.

I am not surprised there is a lot of razzing going on because folks are uncomfortable that their cherished Marriott is taking some heat.

I don't see it that way at all. I believe all of the naysayers have concerns that the owners who are most vocal here about the issues may be more passionate than realistic about how to accomplish what they want and how much they can accomplish.

I'm definitely pro-Marriott. But Marriott isn't perfect. No company is. And if (emphasizing the "if") Marriott has made a mistake in this situation, that mistake should be corrected.

 

[Eric]

First of all, lets get out of character. I have nothing against Mark and in fact can understand his anger. I just think, as I have stated many times, the way he is handling this is counter productive and doomed to failure. At a minimum, he should learn from Dave's approach as it would be far more successful.

I trust Dave. He's wise.
I think Marksue is trying to help - I have no idea if it will help or not help. I'm a clueless second grade teacher.

I do wonder why Eric hates Marksue - that's the way it seems to me, Eric.
Dave is very diplomatic in disagreeing with Marksue - his posts and Marksue's interest me. Marksue has OC members' interests (and his own) at heart - right or wrong.

Dave is a sweetie who disagrees with Marksue and makes his points without being unpleasant.

Eric seems to want to show that Marksue is wrong in a mean way.

This is Ellen the teacher wanting everyone to disagree in an agreeable way.

 

[marksue]

This thread has gotten to the point where I feel I always have to defend what I say and do. I keep trying to get back to the issues but am always being attacked for what I am saying. That is the part of any thread. I can tell you I have had many emails from people here who support what is going on and a couple who do not support it, and I respect thier views.

As I stated earlier, I have tried the diplomatic approach with Marriott prior to starting this thread. I had calls in to Marriott starting back in the June timeframe.

Yes our fees have gone up, more than most if not all other Marriott TS. The issue is not the fee but what has occurred that has caused the higher fees and assessments. If those issues are addressed then our increase and assessments would be minimized. The Surf Club increase is clearly defined. I own at the Surf Club and fully understand that increase, it is also only a 12% increase VS 35% from the OC.

All we the owners want is honest answers from Marriott and the Board, which they have yet to deliver. I have information that backs my point, but I am not able to reveal here at this time. The board talked about things that they did that support the information I have, yet they refuse to reveal it.

I would love to have a handful of owners, and it doesn’t have to be me, sit with the board and Marriott to openly share all the documentation regarding the building, the costs over time to repair the building, the financials surrounding the rental space at the OC as well as the sales desk at the OC. If that occurs this thread would be closed fairly quickly because I do believe all information would be out in the open, and I believe owners would get some form of reimbursement (like I said I have information that can not be revealed).


Eric then we can go grab a drink .

 

[timeos2]

This one is on target

All we the owners want is honest answers from Marriott and the Board, which they have yet to deliver. I have information that backs my point, but I am not able to reveal here at this time. The board talked about things that they did that support the information I have, yet they refuse to reveal it.

I would love to have a handful of owners, and it doesn’t have to be me, sit with the board and Marriott to openly share all the documentation regarding the building, the costs over time to repair the building, the financials surrounding the rental space at the OC as well as the sales desk at the OC. If that occurs this thread would be closed fairly quickly because I do believe all information would be out in the open, and I believe owners would get some form of reimbursement (like I said I have information that can not be revealed).


Eric then we can go grab a drink .

If this tone continues then this thread could live quite awhile longer and end up being very productive. Don't ever be afraid to be active at your resort(s) or to ask tough questions. My best wishes for a good outcome to all owners at OC. Happy New Year and many years of great vacations!

 

[Dave M]

I would love to have a handful of owners, and it doesn’t have to be me, sit with the board and Marriott to openly share all the documentation regarding the building, the costs over time to repair the building, the financials surrounding the rental space at the OC as well as the sales desk at the OC.

That would be nice. However, it's a sure bet that it won't happen. There is too much risk to the Board that you and others would decide that the information wasn't good enough to satisfy you and that you would use that information to sue the Board. You can say that wouldn't happen, but there is no way at this point to take back your constant threats of legal action, starting with your very first post on this forum.

Had you started this thread by stating that all you wanted was information so that you could understand the reasons for the various Board actions and that you were seeking support from other owners to find a way to force that to happen, it might have happened. Maybe, maybe not.

Too late now.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Hard To Un-Ring The Bell.

Too late now.

I think that's right.

Yet it's easy to understand why somebody so seriously aggrieved would come on strong.

I also think there's a certain something about timeshares that just happens to bring out the inner litigator lurking inside many if not most of us.

When it comes to going to court over timeshare disputes, however, the essential question is still How Much Justice Can You Afford ?

Unfortunately, there may be timeshare companies out there which deliberately stick it to the owners, knowing full well that we won't run up $10,000 in attorney fees & court costs over a $5,000 timeshare just to prove we're right.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[ecwinch]

EC, not sure what your goal is in here since you don't own at the Ocean Club, but you seem to chanllenge anyone who has something negative to say against Marriott or the board. It is easy for an outsider to say the board is responding etc.

My goal is offer a counter-point to the interpretation of events that you offer to add some balance to the discussion.

For me, too much of what you post here falls in the category of “I have information I cannot reveal” or unverifiable information from third-parties who do not post here. I think there has to be some portion of what you post that is correct, but without unbiased verification, I have trouble accepting it at face value. Something does not become a fact just because you believe it to be true.

You are taking to current board to task for a lack of transparency and for being unwilling to answer the "hard" questions. But you have demonstrated a similar inclination. When faced with "hard" questions, you attempt to marginalize the person asking the question due to their standing (non-owner, Marriott employee, bogus e-mail address,etc) or hide behind "I have information I cannot reveal".

And I bear no ill will to anyone that has posted here. I simply want a balanced presentation of the facts so people can reach their own conclusions. Let me know when you and Eric have that drink, and I will gladly pay the bill.

 

[marksue]

I do have information that can not be revealed in this thread that supports what I have been saying. I am more than willing to share it with the board, but I am sure the board has seen it already. But on the other hand the board is not open to sharing thier information with the owners. Send me an email with your phone number and I will gladly share it with you over a conversation.

I have already shared this information with other owners who have contacted me.

 

[timeos2]

There is a bottom line and it isn't 100% back in most cases

I do have information that can not be revealed in this thread that supports what I have been saying. I am more than willing to share it with the board, but I am sure the board has seen it already. But on the other hand the board is not open to sharing thier information with the owners. Send me an email with your phone number and I will gladly share it with you over a conversation.

I have already shared this information with other owners who have contacted me.

Unfortunately if that is the type hinted at here - that 14 or 15 years ago there was a roof leak or a window that wasn't sealed, etc- that isn't going to cut it in any court as has been previously noted. The clock starts running on construction defects and other issues and doesn't go on forever. If the Board sitting at that time accepted the building and/or repairs as complete then there is little chance it will be successfully revisited now. That's why the 48% payment deal this Board has worked out may not be as bad as you seem to believe. 14 years of use is a LONG time in the construction/building/warranty world. I only wish we had been able to get 48% of our $3.5 million dollar replacement of incorrectly designed and installed roofs paid for at our resort. And we (as well as our sister resort next door that was newer and also had the same problems) DID go through the legal process only to find out we would get nothing if we proceeded to throw legal fees at the effort. It appears your Board has done a great job of getting something that could have easily been (or still be) nothing from a management that felt an obligation to the project. They don't all do that (or have the money to give). Take what you can is often the best answer.

 

[billymach4]

What Jurisdiction does this issue fall under?

Since all of this is taking place in a property in Aruba, by a corporate entity managed in the US, and from owners literally the world over....

Where do you take this issue to be settled in court if it ever comes to being a legal proceeding?

Aruba? The US? Dutch Courts?

 

[dioxide45]

Since all of this is taking place in a property in Aruba, by a corporate entity managed in the US, and from owners literally the world over....

Where do you take this issue to be settled in court if it ever comes to being a legal proceeding?

Aruba? The US? Dutch Courts?

I believe Marriott has a seperate entity that operates in Aruba. So it would be litigated under the Aruba laws.

 

[Dave M]

I believe Marriott has a seperate entity that operates in Aruba.

You are correct - Marriott Resorts Hospitality of Aruba, N.V. (MRHA).

 

[Zac495]

My goal is offer a counter-point to the interpretation of events that you offer to add some balance to the discussion.



And I bear no ill will to anyone that has posted here. I simply want a balanced presentation of the facts so people can reach their own conclusions. Let me know when you and Eric have that drink, and I will gladly pay the bill.

Can I come?

 

[modoaruba]

Aruban law

If indeed Aruba is the place for litigation consider:

A country that has a red light district.
Advertises prostitution in their papers.
Legalized gambling.

I'm not complaining since I do frequent the casinos(not the former).

The protection that the corporations have under such conditions is enormous.
This is not the USA.

Aruba will not bite the hands that feed it. And vice versa.

Think of DIPLOMACY which was well put by a prior post.

I hate to be right but I do not think I am wrong.

 

[marksue]

If EC is paying everyone is invited.

To file a class action to get Marriott to cover costs has to be done by the board in Aruba. Now based on how MVCI operates you could certainly make a point on filing in the US as thier is enough of a discrepency in some of thier business practices where they represent themselves as MVCI and not MVCI Aruba.

As I have said a lawsuit is the last thing anyone wants to do, yes including me. But anytime anyone goes into a negotiation or battle you always know a lawsuit is a remote possibility.

I am not advocating a lawsuit, so Eric and EC don't say I am . Have I investigated if we have no other choice, yes I have because I needed to know what we would have to do. Before you say how much would it cost. It would be done on a contingency basis with no cost to any owner. I AM JUST GIVING THE FACTS HERE SO LETS NOT GET ON RAMPAGE I AM ADVOCATING A LAWSUIT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I AM NOT. I JUST WANT TO SHARE WHAT I HAVE UNCOVERED IN CONVERSATIONS WITH LAWYERS.

SO i am just sharing what I know at this time.

 

[AwayWeGo]

What Is The Sound Of A Bell Un-Ringing ?

12-28-2008 . . .

SO i am just sharing what I know at this time.

12-27-2008 . . .

I do have information that can not be revealed in this thread that supports what I have been saying.

Not all that easy getting the toothpaste back inside the tube.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Dave M]

I am not advocating a lawsuit....

Huh?

From your very first post in this thread, a theme that has frequently been one of your primary threats here:

Let me know if you are interested in pursuing a class action suit against Marriott.

No matter how much you try, you can't take that back.

 

[marksue]

And as I have always been saying, it is not what any of us want. But action fo last resort. I have said that over and over. SO I ahvent been taking anything back.