Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[tlwmkw]

m61376- I agree with you

The old saying is keep your friends close and your enemies closer. In this case you have already pushed Marriott away by threatening lawsuits so you will have to do the best you can in the circumstances. The goal should be to get the building fixed properly so that you don't have more of these expenses in the future and can either sell once it all dies down and the OC is back in good standing, or use the resort for vacations. Hopefully you'll be able to get Marriott to cover much of the expense but I wouldn't hold my breath for that. Even the lawyers that Allen quotes in his letters state that the situation is open to interpretation which means it will be hard to prove one way or another.

I did note that Allen states that the board shut down communication after all the threats started- this shows that the threats of lawsuits were the cause of the shut down. Also it sounds as if Allen himself initiated a lot of the talk of lawsuits- maybe he should have negotiated a little more carefully. This is a good lesson to learn- subtlety is best in this situation. Certainly you shouldn't sit back and just take it but do try to compromise- you won't get everything you want but something is certainly better than nothing.

I have noticed some people saying they are considering not paying MF's. That would be a bad idea because once this all resolves (and it will) then you will not longer be in good standing and won't be able to participate in it or even use your timeshare.

 

[timeos2]

Not our goal

timesharing has certainly changed during that time, and not for the better, at the beginning it certainly made sense to own since it was a lot cheaper than paying for a week's lodging of vacationing. Today it makes absolutely no sense with the present maintenance fees charged, anyone can find a weeks lodging almost anywhere in the country for far less than most maintenance fees, and that is even not counting any exchange fees.

If all you want is an inexpensive place to stay and are willing to live with a hotel room type then timesharing isn't a great choice. We didn't get into it for that. We like the upscale, larger, often multiple bedroom/bath units that timesharing offers while giving us access for a reasonable cost. We don't find mere hotel rooms - regardless of cost or quality - to meet that requirement. We also got in and own at places we love to go back to! We like to know we have a right to go to OUR resort and maybe date /unit (depending on how the resort is set up to operate - some float) rather than having to plan to contact third parties for rentals or reservations. We never purchased for exchange as the main use (although we get to choose from many resorts by using our points based timeshare systems) thus we mostly avoid the costs and hassles of those systems. Timesharing has worked out very well for our purposes. Marriott resorts tend to be some of the nicer ones and, until the recent value meltdown in all of timeshare/real estate, held a better resale value than most. They still hold an attraction for quality experience that not all timeshares offer. But it is the overall operation of the timeshare NOT that name that really matters.

Most BOD if not all are allowed to charge "special assessments" to the association members without any approval from them, in the case of timeshare BOD i don't know if those directors are from the developer or from the owners, i guess it depends on how the declaration papers for the association were filed, the only way to find out is to get a hold of those papers and read them.
the ugly bottom line is that we are seeing more and more "special assessments" being charged to owners all over the place and the only solution as i said is to read the contract that we all signed at the time, something unfortunately we didn't do.

Yes, resorts can and do have special assessments. Hopefully they are limited to true emergency type needs not just bad management / planning. But even if they do need assessments for the wrong reasons the goal should be to improve the resort for the owners and thus the guests as well. It can certainly be expected that the Board/Management minimize the impact and get the most for every dollar (and paying a 10-15% overhead to management and being limited to only contractors THEY approve is NOT, IMO, getting the most for your improvement dollar) but the need to have an assessment cannot always be avoided. In the case of the OC it appears things were underfunded and neglected (both all too common with developer rather than owner control) and now the costs there have come due. I certainly think the owners speaking out here have legitimate concerns about the overall costs but talking of lawsuits or cutting the scope of work (rather than the costs of ACCOMPLISHING that much needed work) are counter productive. But it will somehow work out in the end and hopefully both the owners and whoever ends up as the acting Board and ongoing management will be happy with the results. If it were my resort I'd have a management change on the list rather than blindly assuming we MUST have the Marriott name. But that's just me and my view of the tactics Marriott employs to seemingly keep the resorts they manage "in line". I don't care for it myself and I'd like to see it challenged regularly. The "value" of the Marriott name has been getting diluted for years vs the cost they demand to keep it. Again just MHO.

Make no mistake the owners at OC have real concerns. I hope they focus on each (the management, the Board and costs) until they are resolved and don't end up fighting never ending battles that hurt them as resort owners and the resort reputation. No one wins if that occurs.

 

[dioxide45]

If you read the letter from Allan it is obvious that it was the ORIGINAL board who was talking about a lawsuit before Mark or anyone else got involved.

I wasn't talking about the board filing lawsuit against Marriott. There have been threats by owners of filing lawsuit against the board. This is why the board has gone in to secret.

 

[Skippy1]

To all Marriott Ocean Club owners. I am not sure if you are aware but you are about to be hit with 2 assessments that could be $1,000 for each of the next 2 years. The reason is Marriott has to completely replace the roof and some of the supports due to poor construction.

How many of you realize that the building was bought by Marriott after it was partially completed? Of course you were never told that. Did you ever wonder why when ever it rained the building flooded? It seems there were problems to the roof from day one and Marriott ignored the problems until they could get the owners to pay a portion of the repairs. Marriott is requiring the Owners to pay a major portion of the repairs. So therefore the roof repair and regular refurbishing projects will costs us additional funds over our already high maintenance.

I have been in touch with the board and have gotten the details of what is taking place. A board member said to me if you find a lawyer who would like to take on a class action suit there would be many people who would be willing to be part of the suit.

I have been in touch with Marriott but they have refused to give me a satisfactory response except to agree to what I have mentioned here.

If you are unhappy about this you should contact customer care. Maybe if enough people speak up Marriott will do the right thing.

Let me know if you are interested in pursuing a class action suit against Marriott.



Mark

would love to, Pease keep us informed.

 

[Luckybee]

I wasn't talking about the board filing lawsuit against Marriott. There have been threats by owners of filing lawsuit against the board. This is why the board has gone in to secret.

Sorry but I (and many other owners I suspect) dont agree with you. The "board" (lol....I guess I should say the MM controlled portion of the board)began doing things in a secretive manner prior to any threats of lawsuit by any specific owner.
As an aside, and I am digressing here, I have to say that the actions by Marriott here really shouldnt surprise me. Their corporate culture does tend to be one of let your customer know as little as possible. A number of years ago while we were in Aruba there was a major power blackout. This ended up going on for days. The govt was providing info to the various resorts as to what they expected ie rotating power etc, lack of A/c etc.. While dh and I were staying at the OC we were speaking each day to the front desk of the Hyatt(we've stayed there many times) who were advising their customers of the daily updates, which often werent good. Marriott (both hotel and OC) were advising "we expect the power to be on soon". Same record each day even when they knew different. The major difference was that the Hyatt(and other properties on the island) was offering free nights to the hotel guests , Marriott wasnt . Part way through Marriott did get one of the generators being used for building the surf club to power the oc. There were still many unhapppy hotel guests who were still not being told what Marriott knew. I specifically asked a manager(there were a couple of cocktail parties for hotel guest and owners as a Marriott "goodwill gesture") about the info we had gleaned and his response at the time was and this is a direct quote"how did you find out about that, no one was allowed to provide that info, who told you, we didnt want to worry our guests?" What amazed us the most was that he was entirely unapologetic for the lack of info , rather more concerned about heads rolling if an employee dare tell the guests the truth

 

[marksue]

Having been at the annual meeting the board was already in stealth mode. Any owner who asked a question that challenged teh board was answered by Marriott. Each board member would pass the question on to Troy or Dirk, and then we got roundabout answers. Even when Allan started to answer questions, Troy or Dirk would interupt and say let me answer that.

 

[lovearuba]

Hoping this is a good sign

Just received this email from Marriott


At the 2009 Annual Meeting, Members will elect two (2) directors to serve on the Association Board of Directors. Any Owner desiring to become a candidate for election to the Board of Directors must complete and submit a Volunteer Form to the Association.

To obtain a Volunteer Form please click here, or contact Gail Sahit-Mahabeer via e-mail at gail.mahabeer@marriotthotels.com or by calling 011-297-520-6089.

Best Regards,



General Manager

It was for Marriott Aruba Ocean club owners

 

[AOC LOVER]

Suddenly there are 2 board vacancies

Does anyone know why there are 2 vacancies? Are two board members leaving?

 

[billymach4]

May just be that 2 seats are up for re-election. There may not be 2 departures.

 

[marksue]

There are 2 seats up becuase Frank Knox's term is up as is Allans. Allan will not run due to term limits, which I think should be overturned. If Frank is running for relection then we need to start a grass root effort to keep him from winning.

My concern is there may be owners who will want to run, but the nomination committee which includes Marriott will prevent owners who are vocally against what is occuring from having thier names submitted for the positions. We will see what happens as I know of a few members who are putting thier names up for nomination.

 

[LARRY T]

Can someone please direct to me to where I can find all these owners that are looking to sell their units -- preferably 2 bedroom platinum units. Thanks

 

[marksue]

Upcoming Board meeting

If any of you are in Aruba next week or know someone that is - I understand the Board is planning a phone board meeting for next Tuesday January 27th, in the evening at 8 p.m. - It might be of interest for any owners to sit in on the conference call. The last call was witnessed by Ken Berkowitz and there was a great deal revealed about our boards actions in that call.

Information on the meeting location should be posted in Aruba or you can ask Corey the GM. It has to be open to owners so any owner down in Aruba is eligible to attend.

 

[Sunbum]

Larry T

Can someone please direct to me to where I can find all these owners that are looking to sell their units -- preferably 2 bedroom platinum units. Thanks

There are not alot for sale. (2bdrm plat.) There are 3 or 4 on www.redweek.com. There are 4 on http://www.arubaoceanclub.com/pages/resales.html
There might be a dozen on the market in total.

 

[MikeM132]

This is not intended to hijack any thread. I am at the Ocean Club now. Never been here (or Aruba) before. You owners may have issues with Marriott, the HOA, etc. but you sure have a great place here.
Oh, btw, I am on first floor with probably the worst view in the place. I could care less. It's still nice.

 

[Sunbum]

Thanks MikeM. I agree

 

[lovearuba]

Mike

You are right, we do have the best resort on the island. We just don't want to have to pay such high maintenance fees.

 

[esitt]

Marriott Aruba Ocean Club

I would like to get onto the Board of directors so I can see what is going on first hand.
I am in the Real Estate Business and a developer as well.
I know the tricks of the trade!
I also have a few hundred owners who would vote for me.
How do I go about it?

 

[AwayWeGo]

Forget Attracting Individual Voters. Find Out Who Votes The Proxies.

How do I go about it?

Find out who votes the proxies & get that person to back you.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[london]

Proxies

Find out who votes the proxies & get that person to back you.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Good point Alan, who on the BOD votes the proxies.

Over 650 posts on this subject. Maintenance fees will always be an issue at resorts.

The costs to keep nice resorts in top notch shape will alway be on the increase.

We do not mind paying MF of $800.00, provided we get value for the money.

 

[marksue]

From what I have been told there is a gorup that is considered the nominating committee.. This committee does consit of Mariott Personnel. Seems interesting that Marriott would have a say as to who can run for the owners board.

As ofr the Maintenance fees, it is what is happening and what has happened to cause a 35% yoy increase as well as the 2 assessments. No on objects to paying the MF. What we want is realistic fee increases. We want Marriott to step up and take responsibility for the defective building they sold the owners and to cover the costs the owners have laid out ove the last 10 years to repair the damage caused by the defective building.

We want Marriott to pay a fair rate for utilizing the OC property. Why should the increase in electricity and labor costs increase the amount paid to manage the porperty. Marriott is performing a service what is the cost of that service. Did the cost of the service jump 35% yoy i doubt it.

We need to have board members that have the chutpah to stand up to Marriott and fight the battle for the owners.

 

[billymach4]

I would like to get onto the Board of directors so I can see what is going on first hand.
I am in the Real Estate Business and a developer as well.
I know the tricks of the trade!
I also have a few hundred owners who would vote for me.
How do I go about it?

I am not an owner at AOC. However you come here on the scene with one post, and claim you have all of these credentials? Maybe so. You need to be more persuasive than one post and all of this backing.

Real name an location would be a start. Anyone can put up a shingle and say I am Trump Jr?

If you knew so much about Real Estate you would not even ask "How to go about it"

 

[ecwinch]

If you knew so much about Real Estate you would not even ask "How to go about it"

point......

 

[ecwinch]

Seems interesting that Marriott would have a say as to who can run for the owners board.

Think about. If the CEO of Wyndham was to buy a week, should they let him run for the BOD. Do you know they have precluded anyone from running? Sorry, I do not see the bogeyman here.

Why should the increase in electricity and labor costs increase the amount paid to manage the porperty. Marriott is performing a service what is the cost of that service. Did the cost of the service jump 35% yoy i doubt it.

Because it directs impacts their operating costs and the cost to maintain the brand in that area. What do you suggest they use to value their services? In a fixed fee/profit environment, their profit margin erodes over time, and they assume undesirable risk expense. I want a healthy partner, not one that is looking to cut corners to maintain profit margins.

 

[lovearuba]

ecwinch

Hi ECWINCH,
I am confused, are you Eric or just quoting him.

 

[marksue]

Because it directs impacts their operating costs and the cost to maintain the brand in that area. What do you suggest they use to value their services? In a fixed fee/profit environment, their profit margin erodes over time, and they assume undesirable risk expense. I want a healthy partner, not one that is looking to cut corners to maintain profit margins.

No one is saying they shouldnt get increases over time, even in a fixed cost contract, but why should thier fees go up becuase we are having to pay higher fees due to Marriott's inability to build a solid building. Many service contracts are written as fixed fee with periodic increases so they remain profitable, but it is a set amount. No reason Marriotts contract couldn't be written the same way. Whats wrong with fixed fee and cost of living increase. Certainly wouldn't amount to 35% increase in 1 year and almost 50% over 2 years.