Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[marksue]

I do not know if Allan has seen it or not. I saw it from another source and not sure how he got it. Only Allan can say if he has seen it or not.

 

[ecwinch]

I do not know if Allan has seen it or not. I saw it from another source and not sure how he got it. Only Allan can say if he has seen it or not.

Do you even read what you post from Allan? Here is from the e-mail he sent you.

"I have not seen any final report from our consultants that our roof was not defective or met the original design specifications."

So, since he did not show you the report, you must have gotten from another source. So now you have two sources feeding you information that only the BOD or Marriott has access to? If so, I think you have missed your calling. This Ocean Club stuff is small potatoes. Get out there and figure out where Osama bin Laden is at.

 

[lovearuba]

Marriott Owners

Hi
I would like to hear from more owners, how do you really feel after reading Allan's letter. Try to digest exactly what he is saying. I am sure many of the owners that read this site were happy with Allan representing them. Now you have heard from him directly and he gave you the truth.

Do you plan to write to Marriott or have you already? Do you plan to write to the board or have you already? Do you plan to sign up for a vote to change the board or have you already? I'm just interested in why you would choose one action over another.

If you have decided to just throw the towel in and try and sell your unit, or if you choose to never buy or recommend Marriott again, I am also interested in hearing that. Lastly, if you plan an sticking it out, have already paid your $1670 and cant wait for the next $700 bill around the corner and stick with Marriott, I am wondering what criteria you used to make that decision. I do appreciate your candor.

 

[dioxide45]

I would like to further explain my removal as President, but must inform you that The Board after removing me as President held a special meeting and passed a resolution (4 to 1) which made all information privy to the Board as confidential including all minutes, resolutions etc which cannot be divulged without prior written approval of the Board of Directors. All information that I had previously posted on the web site was immediately removed and any violation of this resolution, the Board has the right to sue the individual personally and seek monetary damages. After passage of this resolution I made a motion that the resolution having been adopted be forwarded to owners and be posted on our web site. My motion was not seconded nor commented on by any Board member. Since I cannot share the resolution with you all the information I am sharing has been discussed an d shared with numerous owners previously.

I strongly feel that every owner has an equal right to know what is happening. I do not understand what information that I as a Board member and Owner should have that you as a fellow Owner cannot be made aware of. We all have an ownership and financial interest in the Aruba Ocean Club.

I think I can understand why the BOD took these actions. There was mention of a lawsuit. Any organization in a similar situation where they were being threatened with a lawsuit would take similar action. They quickly move to defense mode and that is exactly what happened here.

 

[m61376]

I think I can understand why the BOD took these actions. There was mention of a lawsuit. Any organization in a similar situation where they were being threatened with a lawsuit would take similar action. They quickly move to defense mode and that is exactly what happened here.

Unfortunately, I think you're right and, now that they are in a defensive posture I think making inroads and getting information is going to be MUCH more difficult. At this point, it is likely that Marriott will only release needed information if forced to by legal action. I think owners are now backed into a catch 22 situation, in which semi-amicable discussions are no longer tenable and in which the only way Marriott is going to release any information is if they are forced to do so.

It is unfortunate for all parties involved and, I think, a bad situation which can have more far reaching effects (certainly on OC owner morale, but setting precedents, etc.).

 

[mnook]

To the AOC Board...your post sounds just like the newsletter you have sent the members recently...there is no doubt in my mind that you are representing the Marriott Corporation and not the owners. When is Marriott going to start paying for the space it uses to sell other properties. I went upstairs and now see the floor plans for San Marco. If Marriott paid rent for their sales office space, it would put a lot less burden on the timeshare owners. That of course is addition to the windows, roof and other sub-standard work that was put into this building. Quit making Marriott out like they are a bunch of saints because they are willing to pay 43 or 48% of the replacement costs on the roof...they should be paying for it all.

 

[qlaval]

I think that it is now obvious that the new BOD has been lying about many things now.

What bothers me the most is that the BOD is supposed to represent the owners interests first. I think that this is now more and more questionable to say the least.
If the new BOD think that what they are presently doing is in the best owners interest FINE. But tell us WHY and without lying. I just can't stand that they need to lie to achieve that.

One of their first big lie was release on the OC owners website itself on October 29, 2008.
Where they were denying any class action rumor and that everything was perfect under the sun.
This was absolutely not the case...

Then when questioned about the president Mr. A. Cohen situation their answer was that it was part of a planned succession elaborate by the BOD and by Mr. Cohen himself!
Again another BIG lie...

If only the BOD reply was:
We the new BOD members have decided to push Mr. Cohen aside for the following reasons:
1- We think that his approach isn't....
2- To let him start a probable class action wasn't in the best...
3- etc...

NO they lied instead. Why?
Owners are not children, we don't need to be spoon feed.
Maybe the new BOD doesn't want the owners to decide by themselves?
Under the present situation it is very easy to think that they might already have an agenda.

The big question is, if they lied for the simple questions what about the rest?...

Also why are they keeping the owners in the dark?
Bylaws clearly stated that the minutes of all meetings should be available for inspection by members.
And now they just decide to take that democracy right to the toilet!
I understand that the BOD need to make decisions without the approval of owners but to hide those decisions is another thing...
If you hide yourself it is because you either want to protect yourself or you don't want others to know.
If the BOD is doing things right and lawfully they don't need the secrecy nor the protection.
As a director if you can't justify or stand by your decisions then don't take the job.
Taking decisions isn't a popularity contest it is a conclusion process after consideration.

It's the owners right to be OWNERS IN THEIR OWN RESORT!

Is Marriott behind all this?
Just ask yourself who's interests are best served by all those lies and secrecy?
It's obvious that they want to keep the golden chick at all cost.

Will it backfire on them?
The conditions to retake the power of the BOD are very difficult to meet.
Will the number of owners reached and convinced to act be enough?
Looks like Marriott take the guess that it won't.

Time will tell...

To the other Marriott resorts owners don't make the mistake to think that it cannot happen to you as well.

As for myself the Marriott experience has already left me with a sour taste!

 

[marksue]

GLaval,

And to clarify it is the board that threatned the lawsuit in Jan of 2008 not anything that was stated on this or any other blog. I did post on this thread early on a copy of that suit document. I saved a copy prior to them removing it fromthe website. Just think how screwed we would be if that threat wasn't out there in january. Its too bad they forced Allan out cause I believe he would have continued the fight and gotten a fair shake. I appreciate Allan writing his letter as it confirms what I and others have been saying.

 

[ecwinch]

And to clarify it is the board that threatned the lawsuit in Jan of 2008 not anything that was stated on this or any other blog.

Except for your post over on timeshareforums.com on Dec. 16, 2008

"This is far from old or dead, there will be a class action suit filed against Marriott for deceptive sales practices as well as to recover the costs for all repairs due to a defective building."

You seem to keep forgetting about that post.

 

[marksue]

I hav ent forgotten anything. I was respopnding to glaval post on the boards suit. Next time read what I am responding to versus your constant attacks.

 

[Eric]

[Message deleted. Personal attacks are not permitted on these forums. Dave M, BBS Moderator]

 

[m61376]

[Message deleted. Personal attacks are not permitted on these forums. Dave M, BBS Moderator]

Despite being on a wonderful vacation, Dave just couldn't stay away . He misses us as much as we miss him.
Sorry for getting off topic....

 

[Luckybee]

I think I can understand why the BOD took these actions. There was mention of a lawsuit. Any organization in a similar situation where they were being threatened with a lawsuit would take similar action. They quickly move to defense mode and that is exactly what happened here.

If you read the letter from Allan it is obvious that it was the ORIGINAL board who was talking about a lawsuit before Mark or anyone else got involved.

 

[Luckybee]

I think that it is now obvious that the new BOD has been lying about many things now.

What bothers me the most is that the BOD is supposed to represent the owners interests first. I think that this is now more and more questionable to say the least.
If the new BOD think that what they are presently doing is in the best owners interest FINE. But tell us WHY and without lying. I just can't stand that they need to lie to achieve that.

One of their first big lie was release on the OC owners website itself on October 29, 2008.
Where they were denying any class action rumor and that everything was perfect under the sun.
This was absolutely not the case...

Then when questioned about the president Mr. A. Cohen situation their answer was that it was part of a planned succession elaborate by the BOD and by Mr. Cohen himself!
Again another BIG lie...

If only the BOD reply was:
We the new BOD members have decided to push Mr. Cohen aside for the following reasons:
1- We think that his approach isn't....
2- To let him start a probable class action wasn't in the best...
3- etc...

NO they lied instead. Why?
Owners are not children, we don't need to be spoon feed.
Maybe the new BOD doesn't want the owners to decide by themselves?
Under the present situation it is very easy to think that they might already have an agenda.

The big question is, if they lied for the simple questions what about the rest?...

Also why are they keeping the owners in the dark?
Bylaws clearly stated that the minutes of all meetings should be available for inspection by members.
And now they just decide to take that democracy right to the toilet!
I understand that the BOD need to make decisions without the approval of owners but to hide those decisions is another thing...
If you hide yourself it is because you either want to protect yourself or you don't want others to know.
If the BOD is doing things right and lawfully they don't need the secrecy nor the protection.
As a director if you can't justify or stand by your decisions then don't take the job.
Taking decisions isn't a popularity contest it is a conclusion process after consideration.

It's the owners right to be OWNERS IN THEIR OWN RESORT!

Is Marriott behind all this?
Just ask yourself who's interests are best served by all those lies and secrecy?
It's obvious that they want to keep the golden chick at all cost.

Will it backfire on them?
The conditions to retake the power of the BOD are very difficult to meet.
Will the number of owners reached and convinced to act be enough?
Looks like Marriott take the guess that it won't.

Time will tell...

To the other Marriott resorts owners don't make the mistake to think that it cannot happen to you as well.

As for myself the Marriott experience has already left me with a sour taste!

As an owner I agree with everything you have said. Esp the part about the sour taste I now have as a result of what Ive seen throughout this game of smoke and mirrors the current board(save and except Allan)is now playing.

 

[Luckybee]

Hi
I would like to hear from more owners, how do you really feel after reading Allan's letter. Try to digest exactly what he is saying. I am sure many of the owners that read this site were happy with Allan representing them. Now you have heard from him directly and he gave you the truth.

Do you plan to write to Marriott or have you already? Do you plan to write to the board or have you already? Do you plan to sign up for a vote to change the board or have you already? I'm just interested in why you would choose one action over another.

If you have decided to just throw the towel in and try and sell your unit, or if you choose to never buy or recommend Marriott again, I am also interested in hearing that. Lastly, if you plan an sticking it out, have already paid your $1670 and cant wait for the next $700 bill around the corner and stick with Marriott, I am wondering what criteria you used to make that decision. I do appreciate your candor.

I've added my name to the list that Mark has been putting together. Call me cynical, but I haven't written to Marriott or the board(isnt it the same thing now ? . Just mho but I think we have already heard how Marriott feels about this whole thing through the "board" correspondence. I think it is a complete waste of time at this point to write but if it works for those who have, or will then more power to them. Havent paid the MF's yet, probably will since the last day is tommorrow. Have cancelled our plans to buy 4-8 more weeks(and these were very solid plans), have also talked a few friends out of purchasing and previewing. I will not refer anyone further with the referral program, wouldnt be doing them a favour. Wouldnt sell now, that would be a losing proposition, but likely will in a few years(never thought i'd say that , but I just dont see the point in keeping a few weeks when the original plan was to put together enough weeks to spend 2 or 3 months in Aruba each year in retirement. Looking at other(more expensive options now
), but ones where we have some control...lol

 

[lovearuba]

luckbee

Hi
I understand your decision not to support the letter writing campaign, I initiated one of them because of all the grief Mark was getting on this site. It was an effort to make sure we gave the board an option to reply to our concerns and to make sure other owners knew we were being reasonable first. Unfortunately that didnt work. The next step was to go directly to Marriott and I'm not sure enough time has actually lapsed that would allow Marriott's president to digest everything he's received and to have the opportunity to get the information he needs to address it. Thats assumming he will address it. If he gets the information and he is an honest person he will look into it. The next option is to remove the board. We really don't have much choice and it will be a hard process to get the needed signatures but most of us that are going to Aruba will meet other owners there and we will share the information.

I absolutely have no issue with wandering around the sales area and filling in those folks that look like they are headed into or out of a timeshare presentation. They may be purchasing a surf club and my experience is that word of mouth is a powerful tool. Have a great day and I am so sorry that your plans to purchase additional units to allow you to spend 2-3 months there a year have changed.

 

[marksue]

Lucky, I certainly understand your feelings and I share them. I had always considered buying more TS over time, but after this experience I am done. As soon as the market turns around I will be selling my Surf Club unit and if things don't turn around with the OCean club I will sell those as well. It would be cheaper for me to rent a unit then to continue to pay the fees.

I know when I was down in Aruba, I was speaking with people who were thinking of buying, and after listening to what was going on with the Ocean Club they decided not to buy in the surf club. Word of mouth is very powerful. I know owners who jsut got back and they talked people out of buying. There is also a group going down over the next month or so that have thier own plans for when they get there. Should be quite interesting.

 

[m61376]

Lucky, I certainly understand your feelings and I share them. I had always considered buying more TS over time, but after this experience I am done. As soon as the market turns around I will be selling my Surf Club unit and if things don't turn around with the OCean club I will sell those as well. It would be cheaper for me to rent a unit then to continue to pay the fees.

I know when I was down in Aruba, I was speaking with people who were thinking of buying, and after listening to what was going on with the Ocean Club they decided not to buy in the surf club. Word of mouth is very powerful. I know owners who jsut got back and they talked people out of buying. There is also a group going down over the next month or so that have thier own plans for when they get there. Should be quite interesting.

While I understand your frustration and anger, do you really think it is in anyone's best interest to start a Marriott Aruba hate campaign, so to speak? I am not sure what positive benefits you will reap by telling people they'd be crazy to buy at either the Ocean Club or the Surf Club.

While I am not getting into an Ocean Club versus Surf Club controversy here, I think the distinction is important. What is going on at the OC impacts the SC in so far as it impacts all Marriott owners, but the construction issues and even the BOD personalities are an Ocean Club issue. These resorts are two separate entities.

I don't think it is in any Ocean Club owner's best interests to engage in a bad-mouthing campaign that makes it so no one wants to own/purchase at the OC and, as a Surf Club owner, I have to admit that I'm not thrilled with a campaign to discourage people from buying. Word of mouth can help destroy a great, healthy resort- something which I personally don't think is in anybody's best interests.

I don't think this is the way to advance your cause.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Learning Through Vicarious Experience.

Paying to find that out can be extremely expensive but many have to learn the hard way.

Not everything has to be learned the hard way.

One major serious advantage of TUG-BBS participation is learning things easily that others in the past have already found out the hard way.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[marksue]

I certainly am not making it a Ocean Club Surf Club thing. I would not recommend Marriott Timeshare to anyone based on this experience. So if someone asks me about my experience with Marriott timeshare I will share it. What they choose to do is up to them.

I know many people have nothing but positive things to say, and if I didn’t own the Ocean club I would have as well, but the experience prevents me from recommending Marriott TS.

 

[lovearuba]

advancing our case

Hi
I do think sharing the information here has advanced our case and I think the more folks that know about it the better chance we have at getting Marriott to address it.

The type of information I share with folks on purchasing through Marriott is factual. You can call it badmouthing or you can call it disclosing information that buyers should have before they make a purchase. I want to know what buyer would willingly buy a timeshare knowing that it cost more to pay for the maintenance fee than it cost to rent it on the retail market.

 

[Luckybee]

There is also a group going down over the next month or so that have thier own plans for when they get there. Should be quite interesting.

Im aware of this as well and I agree it will be very interesting

 

[Luckybee]

While I understand your frustration and anger, do you really think it is in anyone's best interest to start a Marriott Aruba hate campaign, so to speak? I am not sure what positive benefits you will reap by telling people they'd be crazy to buy at either the Ocean Club or the Surf Club.

While I am not getting into an Ocean Club versus Surf Club controversy here, I think the distinction is important. What is going on at the OC impacts the SC in so far as it impacts all Marriott owners, but the construction issues and even the BOD personalities are an Ocean Club issue. These resorts are two separate entities.

I don't think it is in any Ocean Club owner's best interests to engage in a bad-mouthing campaign that makes it so no one wants to own/purchase at the OC and, as a Surf Club owner, I have to admit that I'm not thrilled with a campaign to discourage people from buying. Word of mouth can help destroy a great, healthy resort- something which I personally don't think is in anybody's best interests.

I don't think this is the way to advance your cause.

I understand your feelings, but that said do you really think that what is happening at the OC cant just as easily happen at the SC with Marriott controlling the board in both places? Im sorry but I have had friends who were looking at purchasing SC, and I dont want it on my conscience if they do at this point(at least not until I see how this pans out). For years I have always told those who were skeptical about TS and the preview program is that "dont think of it like a stereotypical timeshare, this is Marriott, and its different ". Had it not been I would have never bought, now it isnt and so I cant refer others nor recommend the purchase to my friends. I wouldnt be a friend if I did.

 

[m61376]

I agree that what is happening at the OC affects all Marriott owners in that it sets a lousy precedent across the board. I don't feel it necessarily impacts the SC more than any other Marriott timeshare though.

I do think that while what is happening is certainly egregious and very unfair to OC owners, it is at least in part an atypical situation in that the OC, unlike most other Marriott timeshare properties, was not originally built as a Marriott timeshare structure and evidently the constructions standards were sub par. So I personally wouldn't condemn Marriott timeshares across the board because of what is happening at the Ocean Club.

I may be in the minority here, but I don't see much good coming from a badmouthing campaign. Why erode the value of expensive weeks? I just don't see that as helping your cause and it will likely just further alienate the Board.

Please understand I totally agree with you in principle and appreciate your frustration and anger. I'm just expressing my opinion (for what it is or isn't worth) on method. I truly hope you make headway and wish you the best of luck.

 

[viejoverde]

BOD in timeshares

hi, i am new here and have just a few observations after reading this thread on Marriott's board actions. I have owned 4 weeks in three different resorts on the last 20 years, now i only have one left.
timesharing has certainly changed during that time, and not for the better, at the beginning it certainly made sense to own since it was a lot cheaper than paying for a week's lodging of vacationing. Today it makes absolutely no sense with the present maintenance fees charged, anyone can find a weeks lodging almost anywhere in the country for far less than most maintenance fees, and that is even not counting any exchange fees.
Most BOD if not all are allowed to charge "special assessments" to the association members without any approval from them, in the case of timeshare BOD i don't know if those directors are from the developer or from the owners, i guess it depends on how the declaration papers for the association were filed, the only way to find out is to get a hold of those papers and read them.
the ugly bottom line is that we are seeing more and more "special assessments" being charged to owners all over the place and the only solution as i said is to read the contract that we all signed at the time, something unfortunately we didn't do.