Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[m61376]

Its important to note that there are both ocean club and surf club units for sale on ebay at really low prices and people are not buying them. I have seen surf club two bedroom sell for 9900.00. You have to know where to look. I posted my two bedroom ocean on ebay and the highest offer was 9900.00, it wasnt enough for me to sell so the point is that you can get them really cheap but its not limited to the ocean

Yeah- I was aware of that and actually came home an hour late or I would have bought it. Interestingly, though, other sellers won't even consider that offer, and a broker touted by many here at Tug is pretty sure it won't pass ROFR (although in these times I tend to disagree, but I'm no expert here). I had e-mailed offers to several sellers and included a link to that auction and not one even responded with a counter offer.

Like Modo, I think most sellers are still holding out. I would think that OC weeks would sell for less than SC's- not getting into a "which resort is better" argument- just based on the fees for the next two years and the much higher base MF's on-going. I am just not seeing more of a dive in prices beyond the overall bottoming out of the market due to the economy. Admittedly, I was hoping to be one of those bottom feeders....

 

[Kelly&Sean]

Has anyone actually seen the details of the Budget and/or the Assessment? I viewed my bill online and hit the link for the details but there was nothing to be found. I called Marriott but they did not have any details either. I have emailed the BOD and Corey but you know that they have not responded. Please post a link or details if you have them.

 

[autumn]

2008 budget

Hi Kelly ,

THere is a letter from the treasurer Melissa date 12/12/2008 with the break down and explanation of expenses and copy of 2008 budget on the Marriott Ocean Club website.

 

[marksue]

I just reviewed the letter from Michelle. Here are my comments:

In 2008, the AOC Board reviewed the allocation details for shared labor and services between the Marriott hotel, Marriott’s Aruba Ocean Club and Marriott’s Aruba Surf Club resorts. As a result of this review and an evaluation of owner feedback, a decision was made to proceed with dedicated Aruba Ocean Club General Manager, Administrative Assistant and Director of Finance positions. Although this represents a material change to the cost structure of AOC, the Board felt the additional expense was justified by the complexity of operating the resort at a consistent, annual occupancy of approximately 95%.Why do we need to hire 3 people at an expense to the owners without getting owners agreement. Ok, we bring on a GM, lets eliminate the FT assistant and Director of Finance. We can still share those resources if necessary. This is not financial responsibility

• Utility and Storm Deficit Recovery: This one-time expense offsets the 2008 year-end operating fund shortfall, driven by unforeseen utility cost increases, as well as from water intrusion related expenses due to Hurricane Omar. Furthermore, although Hurricane Omar had little visibility in the U.S., the extensive winds and rain created water intrusion and unbudgeted cleaning and repair expenses, which are estimated between $85,000 and $100,000 and will put additional strain on the Association's operating fund; particularly as they are expected to fall short of our current insurance deductible, which equals 1% of the total building value. This should be paid by Marriott due to a defective building. THe hotel and the SC had no such damage. WHy would the OC only have the damage and it has nothing to do with the storm, it has to do with a building that was not properly waterproofed


The increase in the Residential Reserve Fund contributions are needed to offset recent increases in local sales tax, BBO tax, customs duties, overseas shipping and international construction costs. These cost factors increased by almost 50% during the past 3 years, relative to prior years. Additional funding of the Reserve is necessary to maintain the resort at current high level of standards we all expect. Furthermore, the resort is now 9 years old, and it will be necessary to replace villa case goods, appliances and to refurbish our building façade. While the Association has and will continue to work with MVCI to ensure all construction and product warranties are honored by the developer and manufacturer, the combination of high occupancy, a tropical climate, trade winds and salt air have unfortunately resulted in a reduction of the normal life expectancy of some specific assetswhy is the reserve fee 2 /12 time higher than the Surf Club. Should not be this much of a difference. It is either SC owners will get walloped or the OC is out of touch.


o Replacement of the Main Building flat roof is scheduled to be completed no later than the end of the second week of December 2008. Upon completion of this work, all roofs will have a manufacturer's and installer's warranty that protects the roof integrity for the next decade. MVCI is paying more than 43% of the total roof replacement cost, including the prorated value related to the 5-year period the concrete skeleton and roof of the current AOC building sat idle and MVCI's 12.2% share resulting from its ownership of the commercial areas in the AOC building.Ok here it is the building sat idle for 5 years, yet Marriott built the skin around a shell that sat exposed for 5 years. THis is validation that they should pay for the entire replacement since there have been problems since day 1.. The building was defective, the board knows it and yet refuses to fight marriott to do the right thing.


Your input has been very valuable to the Board of Directors in setting the strategy for Marriott’s Aruba Ocean Club. We have heard loud and clear from the Owners that we must have a Resort that meets our needs and expectations for now and the future. We can and will make this our priority. I hope that you agree with our financial plan and can assure you that your Board of Directors will continue to manage and reduce expenses at every opportunity.I think the board many owners do not agree with the financial plan. In fact many owners wrote and complained about the upcoming fees and yet they raised them even more from what was announced at the General owners Meeting in October. So my question to the board, who were you listening to, was it Marriott?



FOr thos that have not seen the fees, here it is:


1 Bedroom 2 Bedroom

2009 Maintenance Fee (Annual Operating & Reserve) 1,186.02 1,595.64

Utility and Storm Deficit Recovery from 2008 ** 71.02 101.96

Total 1,257.04 1,697.60
** The Deficit Recovery for the 2009 billing is for one year only.

 

[Kelly&Sean]

I am looking for the actual budget. Every year we get a line item budget that shows the costs and the increase from the prior year for each revenue and expense item. I can not find this document anywhere. The treasurers comments are all just self serving. I want to see the costs.

 

[marksue]

I know the document you are talking about. It usually comes with the bill. I ahvent recieved the actual Bill yet, Have you?

 

[Dave M]

...and unless Marriott does something differently this time, the detailed budget will eventually be posted in the Owners' section of the resort's page at the MVCI website, but normally not until about February.

 

[ecwinch]

Is this what you are looking for...

MarkSue,

just curious - is this the solution you are looking for:

- That 10%+ of the owners request a special election
- That at this special election, enough votes are present to elect a "owner-orientated" Board that will aggressively pursue an agenda that will force Marriott to pay 100% of the cost of replacing the roof
- That the same Board will take action to "rollback" fees to 2008 levels - by reducing the reserve funding, eliminating the added staff, and reducing the planned refurbishment to some unclear "minimum" levels
- That the volunteer board commit to a policy of increased owner communication - which in some of the posts seem to be a standard of responding to any and all e-mail correspondence/phone calls they receive from any owner, regardless of the time commitment that may require, and not shuffling this responsibility off to a paid employee of MCVI
- That Allan be reinstated to his role as Board President, assuming he is willing to resume this role.

Am I missing anything...

And just so it's clear... while my first name is Eric, I do not work for Marriott and am not in their pocket. That seems to be the standard reply to anyone that fails to 100% agree with the prevailing tone of this thread. And no, I do not own at Ocean Club. I am a MCVI owner, but at HarbourPoint, which has endured a different set of challenges with MCVI. Only concerned as a fellow MCVI owner.

The one thing I am finding curious in this thread, is the absence of any input from Allan.

 

[Luckybee]

MarkSue,

just curious - is this the solution you are looking for:

-That 10%+ of the owners request a special election
- That at this special election, enough votes are present to elect a "owner-orientated" Board that will aggressively pursue an agenda that will force Marriott to pay 100% of the cost of replacing the roof
- That the same Board will take action to "rollback" fees to 2008 levels - by reducing the reserve funding, eliminating the added staff, and reducing the planned refurbishment to some unclear "minimum" levels
- That the volunteer board commit to a policy of increased owner communication - which in some of the posts seem to be a standard of responding to any and all e-mail correspondence/phone calls they receive from any owner, regardless of the time commitment that may require, and not shuffling this responsibility off to a paid employee of MCVI

- That Allan be reinstated to his role as Board President, assuming he is willing to resume this role.

Am I missing anything...

And just so it's clear... while my first name is Eric, I do not work for Marriott and am not in their pocket. That seems to be the standard reply to anyone that fails to 100% agree with the prevailing tone of this thread. And no, I do not own at Ocean Club. I am a MCVI owner, but at HarbourPoint, which has endured a different set of challenges with MCVI. Only concerned as a fellow MCVI owner.

The one thing I am finding curious in this thread, is the absence of any input from Allan.

I cant speak for Mark or anyone else but let me tell you what I, and a few other owners who I have spoken to wish to see.

- "That 10%+ of the owners request a special election
- That at this special election, enough votes are present to elect a "owner-orientated" Board that will aggressively pursue an agenda that will force Marriott to pay 100% of the cost of replacing the roof"


We very much hope that a special meeting is called and that at that special election, the current board explains why it is that there position has changed so dramatically, and further , that why when Allan started raising some of the issues mentioned here with Marriott, it was then, and only then that he was "removed" as president. I dont personally know whether 100%, 50%, 43% etc. is fair but what I do know is that I cant make that decision because the "new" board will not provide any info about the basis upon which they made their decision. They, along with Marriott simply say"the roof wasnt defective" which seems to run counter to the earlier opinion held by them which were apparently as a result of consultants hired by them . I would like for the board to "actively pursue Marriott for the engineering reports which Im sure they had prior to purchasing the original"shell" . I think as owners we are entitled to an explanation, so that a rational decision can be made as to whether Marriott needs to be pursued, and if one is not forthcoming from this board then absolutely one should be elected that would be accountable to the owners.

"That the same Board will take action to "rollback" fees to 2008 levels - by reducing the reserve funding, eliminating the added staff, and reducing the planned refurbishment to some unclear "minimum" levels "

The board had told us of the special assesment and I think it would be fair to say that it was expected. What most didnt know about at the time was that there were some significant issues surrounding the reason for the special assesment ie windows, roof, history of repairs and just who shoukd have been responsible. But to be hit with the special assesment at the same time as a huge increase in maintenance seems rather outrageous, particularily when no one was warned, again particularily when times are pretty darn tough for some people. Again I would like a resonable explanation before I would be prepared to say that this extensive refurbishment is justified now. Quite frankly the memos/letters put out by the board so far sound imho like Marriott advertising.

"That the volunteer board commit to a policy of increased owner communication - which in some of the posts seem to be a standard of responding to any and all e-mail correspondence/phone calls they receive from any owner, regardless of the time commitment that may require, and not shuffling this responsibility off to a paid employee of MCVI"

There's an old expression...if u cant take the heat ...I have sat on various "volunteer" boards. I make the choice given time constraints as to whether I am prepared to do so. If I dont have time to fulfill my obligations then I dont take the post. That is why currently Im not sitting on anything right now. I simply dont have the time. Anyone who takes on this position has to be willing to devote the time or simply not take it on.
Our owners since inception have always had, until now , excellent communication from our board. I have owned since the first year the building was built. Over the years I had the need to contact Allan 4 times, once to offer a suggestion, once to sort out a problem that Marriott wasnt initially being responsive to, and on 2 further occasions regarding a specific request I needed to make because of my personal circumstances. When we first had communication many moons ago he didnt know me from Adam(or Eve as the case may be In each and every instance he was able to assist and communicated both by email and phone with me. Again without sounding like a broken record, it is only after the tough questions were asked and our president "removed" that communication ceased. Doesnt that seem a tad odd ? It does to me, and I want to know why. Why would you remove someone who is prepared to do that? Ask yourself this question. You have a president, that both the owners and Marriott both are apparently happy with. He communicates with all, spends countless hours of his time for no renumeration dealing with Marriott, and owners and represents the owners well. Would you remove this person as president..hmmmm...lets see....oops Marriott is no longer happy with him because he is asking for info and asking questions now....but the owners are still quite happy with him because he is protecting their interests.

"That Allan be reinstated to his role as Board President, assuming he is willing to resume this role"

If I were him I run for the hills but that would remain to be seen. I do want a president who doesnt hide behind the coatails of Marriott and who is willing to look out for my interests. I want to know what is going on at my building. I want a president who doesnt think that there should be a veil of secrecy and is willing to provide info to owners. I would be thrilled if Allan were prepared to resume that role but if it isnt Allan I am sure there are many others who would be willing to fulfill that position.

"And just so it's clear... while my first name is Eric, I do not work for Marriott and am not in their pocket. That seems to be the standard reply to anyone that fails to 100% agree with the prevailing tone of this thread. And no, I do not own at Ocean Club. I am a MCVI owner, but at HarbourPoint, which has endured a different set of challenges with MCVI. Only concerned as a fellow MCVI owner"

Are you reading a different thread than I am. The only time it was suggested that there was a Marriott employee "working" the thread was in relation to one individual. Some of the things he was saying made no sense if he truly was an owner. You are asking some interesting questions as we all are at this point. I dont think you honestly believe that if this was your resort you wouldnt be entitled to know what was going on at your resort.

"The one thing I am finding curious in this thread, is the absence of any input from Allan"

Do not forget for one moment that Allan is still "on the board" and is I expect in a rather difficult position at this point. Many things could perhaps change the "difficulty " of his position at some point. I wouldnt think he'd be in a position to comment right now.

 

[Kelly&Sean]

I know the document you are talking about. It usually comes with the bill. I ahvent recieved the actual Bill yet, Have you?

The bills are now on your account if you go to MVCI website. There is an Adobe file. It just shows the amount of money I owe.

 

[marksue]

Eric (and I am not accusing you of working for Marriott ) you are asking clarifying questions and I have no problem addressing them. Other owners may have their own input as well.

Here is what I am trying to accomplish:

1) Get 10% of the sold units to call a special board meeting.
In this meeting the goal is to:
a) Change by-laws to promote more transparency enabling owners to be more informed of events from the board. This mean:
i) Posting minutes of all board meetings on the web within a reasonable time
ii) Owners have input to major financial impacts to the Ocean
iii) Ability to recall B-members of the board when Ocean Club best interests are not supported
iv) Ensure accountability upon all board members
v) Make it easier for owners to call special board members
vi) Allow owners to attend or listen in to board members
vii) President of the board is elected by the owners and can not be removed unless voted on by the owners

b) Recall certain board members who have not performed their fiduciary duty to the Owners who elected them

c) For me personally I would like to get Allan back as president as he has been a fighter for the owners. That is why Marriot board members and Ocean club board members forced him out as president the day before the general members meeting. And the new president left prior to the general owners meeting so he wouldn’t have to face the owners.

d) Elect a board that will look out for owners best interests currently Marriott is walking all over this board and dictating what to say and what to do. This is obvious when you read the board memos, attend the owner meeting and speak to Marriott representatives (as I have spoken to a few of them).

2) I am looking for a board willing to do what ever is necessary to get Marriott to pay a fair share as well as recover costs associated with all the damages caused by the defective building since they started selling the units. The owners have been paying all repair costs due to flooding leaks etc, since inception. As stated previously, they never revealed to owners that the building shell stood for 5 years before they bought it.

3) I am not asking to a roll back to 2008, what I am asking for is a reasonable increase, as we all expected, (not 35 - 40%). I do believe that if Marriott pays the Ocean club back for all the work we have paid, plus the 750k for water proofing the building which was never done, repairing the roof which they are responsible, the cost for storm damage by Omar, which is due to the poor building quality), and paying the fair share of rent for the common space and receiving fair share from the stores will get us to a fair and equitable increase.

4) Reevaluate what we are doing in the refurbishment. According to Marriott they recommended a refurbishment about 5 million less than the board is spending. Before we start this refurbishment, lets relook and cut the costs. This will prevent or at the minimum reduce the 2 years of assessments we a will be charged

4) You will not hear from Allan on this thread cause as a board member he could not post without the board authorizing the post. I do know that owners that have written to Allan and have gotten communications back from him, not like when you write to our current president who has not responded to anyone. I have been in touch with many owners who have written and spoken to Allan. He will not and can not get involved in this fight due to being on the board.

Eric I hope this answers your questions. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any others.

 

[modoaruba]

beach

there is talk on beach at the OC about integrating OUR beach with the SC.
That will increase our value even moreso if true:annoyed:

 

[marksue]

Please find out more if you can. I and others would certainly want to know what is going on down thier. The last I had heard was the Palapas were no longer available to SC owners. As for just the beach it is a public beach so people can go where they like, they just cant use the palapas. I have heard the SC is adding a 3rd pool or just more seating area.

 

[vincenzi]

The Fees Are As Previously Posted

The bills are now on your account if you go to MVCI website. There is an Adobe file. It just shows the amount of money I owe.

Yes, I checked out the website and the fees are indeed what had been posted in the earlier posts. Our fees for two weeks at the Marriott Aruba Ocean Club are $3,395.20. The fees are due on January 16, 2009. Of course, the assessment fees will have to paid in addition to this amount.

 

[Sunbum]

I wonder if the rental rates at the OC will go up to coincide with the increase in MF's????

Not likely.

Although....After the renos, it will be awesome

 

[lovearuba]

Rental fees at ocean club

Hi
I sure hope the rental fees go up, I for one would never rent it out if my maintenance costs more than the rental income.

 

[marksue]

I do not think the rents will go up. Supply and demand on the island will prevent an increase in rents. For most people it pays to rent especially since Marriott is charging 440 a nite for a 1 bedroom.

 

[Dave M]

Here is what I am trying to accomplish:

1) Get 10% of the sold units to call a special board meeting.

I'm confused, Mark. Are you really seeking a special Board meeting as you state, or are you seeking a special meeting of the owners? The Board doesn't have the power to do some of the things you want (such as change the by-laws) and isn't likely to vote to do most of the other things you want (such as recalling certain Board members).

 

[ilene13]

We will be there on the 21st for 2 weeks so I will try to find out any info you ask me for. During wks 51 and 52 SC owners have never been allowed to rent the palapas at our beach. Also, I sent an email to Corey about payment for some of the fees and his reply did not address any of my questions.

 

[marksue]

Dave according to our bylaws and I did post them previously, we the owners can call a special board meeting by having 10 % of the units requesting the meeting. At this meeting we can propose recalling board members and then it is submitted to all owners to vote. Additionally our bylaws do allow the board to present changes to the bylaws.

 

[timeos2]

Get the vote out

Dave according to our bylaws and I did post them previously, we the owners can call a special board meeting by having 10 % of the units requesting the meeting. At this meeting we can propose recalling board members and then it is submitted to all owners to vote. Additionally our bylaws do allow the board to present changes to the bylaws.

It isn't getting the changes proposed and up for a vote that's the problem. The BOARD does has to approve the proposal and then you have the real work to get at least 50% and often even a higher, super majority percentage, to vote yes. History at other resorts says that is nearly impossible to do. Getting even the 10% of owners you need to call a special meeting may be harder than you think. Getting a 50%+1 majority to vote yes to almost anything is a virtually impossible task. Not that you shouldn't try, but be aware that it is not an easy thing to do. As you can see from just this thread not everyone sees things as you do.

 

[marksue]

John,

Agreed it isnt easy, but it is worth the effort. As more and more people hear what is happening the more support we get. I am not concerned with getting the 10% we are getting closer to the goal. Once the mailing goes out for the special meeting i do believe there will a great deal of support for our recommendations.

There is already a request out to get a list of all owners and contact information. If we do not get it then Marriott will be required to supply it as part of a class action suit, which is close to being setup. With the lack of response from the board and Marriott more people are suggesting a suit. As always has been stated it is the path of last resort.

 

[timeos2]

Guarded list (for a reason)

John,

There is already a request out to get a list of all owners and contact information. If we do not get it then Marriott will be required to supply it as part of a class action suit, which is close to being setup. With the lack of response from the board and Marriott more people are suggesting a suit. As always has been stated it is the path of last resort.

At least in Florida - and most other areas from my understanding - you CANNOT get an owners list as an individual owner. Heck, we had to sue our developer to get it as the sitting Board members! The management is correct (again, at least in Florida) that due to privacy laws they cannot give that to owners. Those lists are golden to a marketing company or another developer - they are right to protect them (and us owners) from misuse.

The best we could do wass have the Board order the management to send out a mailing using the list (and they fought it but complied) but, again, you have to convince the Board to do that. We were the Board so it was our call. While things could be different in another country the rules may still apply to US owners as we do cherish what little right to privacy we have. It may be best if you research the laws to see if they can in fact legally release the owners list to you or anyone else that isn't on the Board/management before you spend any money chasing after something you cannot get.

 

[Dave M]

At least in Florida - and most other areas from my understanding - you CANNOT get an owners list as an individual owner.

I agree, John. That topic has been discussed frequently on these forums, typically by disgruntled owners who want access to such lists.

Even if Aruba's laws would allow release of an owner's list, the lawsuit would likely first have to be certified as a class action suit in a court (presumably in Aruba) that has jurisdiction over the Aruba timeshare management. Note that the timeshare is managed by an Aruba entity, not a U.S. entity. Marriott separates that management from its U.S. timeshare operations for most - if not all - of its non-U.S. timeshares.

So a U.S. court could order the release of the list and the Board and the Aruba management company could simply ignore the order with no repercussions.

 

[marksue]

Inthe case of a class action suit the list must be released and if that is the direction we have to go we will. It is up to the board and Marriott if we go in that direction.