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Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2022 [MERGED]

HitchHiker71

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On your My Ownership page on the current version of the website, do those who own Resale contracts see any indication that a contract is flagged as resale now? There is more info here than there used to be, but just curious if it is showing flagged as resale anywhere yet.
I’m on my iPhone at present and I do not see any reference to resale or retail status on any of my contracts.


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cbyrne1174

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I think the next step Wyndham might take would be to raise the resale transfer fee to Marriott levels. DC resale points still cost 1/3rd of the retail price. The points usually will pass ROFR at $2/pt and also require about $3/pt transfer fee. Last I checked, retail was about $14/pt, so resale is about 1/3rd the price.
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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I think the next step Wyndham might take would be to raise the resale transfer fee to Marriott levels. DC resale points still cost 1/3rd of the retail price. The points usually will pass ROFR at $2/pt and also require about $3/pt transfer fee. Last I checked, retail was about $14/pt, so resale is about 1/3rd the price.
Hindsight is 20/20 & I bet your glad you avoided the VIP itch.
 

bryjake

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Could "he next step Wyndham might take would be to raise the resale transfer fee to Marriott levels. DC resale points still cost 1/3rd of the retail price. The points usually will pass ROFR at $2/pt and also require about $3/pt transfer fee. Last I checked, retail was about $14/pt, so resale is about 1/3rd the price."

Yes they could (That would be generous of CW)

They also could not do anything or further differentiate resale from developer by minimizing other features like granting HK credits and and transaction charges from resale as well. I believe those are not be guaranteed or should be taken for granted as well. Other TS clubs have further stripped down versions of resale, why not CW. (I do not foresee this near term, but longer term who knows)

Extra resale HK and transaction fee's would be like printing money for revenue

I do not fully believe the argument that CW fears having excess inventory from Ovation resale carries as much mass as other do. Having extra Ovations inventory allows for additional developer sales at desired properties without expanding and building or acquiring additional resorts. Excessive inventory could be rolled into CWA sausage trust as well.

Near term, I suspect CW loves keeping their sales happy and sales revenue flowing. So process to "make dirty clean" could work

Longer term, who knows and clearly falls into the "it depends" bucket
 

paxsarah

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Question:
If you need to combine both VIP eligible and non eligible points for a large reservation and thus book using non-VIP eligible and borrow some of your VIP-eligible points, will those combine for ARP purposes (e.g. if you own both retail and resale CWA contracts)?
 

VacayKat

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Question:
If you need to combine both VIP eligible and non eligible points for a large reservation and thus book using non-VIP eligible and borrow some of your VIP-eligible points, will those combine for ARP purposes (e.g. if you own both retail and resale CWA contracts)?
I would guess the most restrictive ARP would prevail. But if they are both the same ARP, as of right now Wyndham has not stated they are stripping that from the resale points. I think were they to do that they would have bigger problems on their hands as that has always been a contractual right not a perk.
 

raygo123

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Gah. That was a huge perk of VIP - not having to think about when I had to deposit points by. Super glad you thought of that, I don't know I would have.
Recommend everyone put a reminder on their calendar for a few days before the deadline for both sets of points as soon as things go live. You don't want to miss those deadlines.
I would suggest that all VIPs with resale deposit those points before august.

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Manzana

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My big question would be if you are short points on a VIP reservation could you choose to borrow points from the next Use Year if you have resale points available in same use year.
 

raygo123

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I'll try to give you some sense of relief as requested. The reality is this. The points buckets have existed within the back office systems for a long time now. These points buckets simply haven't been exposed to the front office website. So the good news is that most the core functionalities for the points buckets - those are a known quantity and changes to the back office systems shouldn't be necessary - or somewhat minimal when compared to the front office changes. The bad news is that the logic for processing resale reservations separately likely either didn't exist or must be changed as a result of the recently announced changes. That said, the overall the changes to how the reservation components work isn't rocket science. As long as the logic is programmed correctly - making net new reservations after mid-August when these changes are moved into production - I expect we'll see some bugs as always - but it should work for the majority of use cases from the outset. That said, I'd expect Wyndham TUG owners to fair worse than most normal owners - since many Wyndham TUG owner accounts - especially those who fall into the commercial rental business bucket - are far from normal accounts and are outliers by definition. Expect problems if you have millions of points, hundreds of transactions, dozens or hundreds of GC/HK/RT activities. Just one man's opinion.;)

The bigger change that I'd be more concerned about is the points adjustments based upon account audits that have been announced. Essentially they are doing an account audit for the current use year for all impacted VIP owners and performing changes to points buckets and GC/HK/RT counts retroactively best estimate. I tend to agree with the consensus - take screenshots of your account information the day before the changes are rolled out. This is the area where I'd expect the most heartache.
Thank you I have been telling people on here since the new website that buckets still exist and you JUST DON'T SEE THEM!

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VacayKat

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I would suggest that all VIPs with resale deposit those points before august.

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I get your point, but TBH, I think this will backfire and end up causing more VIP rentals to hit the market. I mean if you have the option between recouping some MF or sending the points to RCI, pretty sure everyone is taking the cash. I really doubt the best move for all folk’s resale points is to dump them to next use year - especially if your use year just started.
 

Eric B

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My big question would be if you are short points on a VIP reservation could you choose to borrow points from the next Use Year if you have resale points available in same use year.
The rule set they provided would allow that if you're in the proper reservation window (express reservation window in general, plus possibly to complete the amount needed for the final day for the standard reservation window).
 

VacayKat

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My big question would be if you are short points on a VIP reservation could you choose to borrow points from the next Use Year if you have resale points available in same use year.
And I think this brings us back to the question of how resale and developer points with different rules can be seen as one account. Will the website function properly for all the contingencies? Will CS actually understand all the rules and the complexities? Or will resale be considered second class citizens and everything need to be fought tooth and nail for at every interaction?
I think Wyndham might need to hire some folks with psychology understanding - best way to strike fear in folks is to give them just enough info that they are in a position to not know much. And that fear and uncertainty leads to anger and lashing out. And with that - a reminder that the follow-up email had originally been scheduled to be sent today. Watch your inboxes.
 

Eric B

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I would suggest that all VIPs with resale deposit those points before august.

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In the announcement email I received, they indicated that "from the August system update through Dec. 31, 2021, you will have the option to convert your Non-VIP Eligible Points to maintenance fees or utilize the Points Deposit Feature to move your Non-VIP Eligible Points into a future Use Year." The interesting thing about this is that for folks that are VIPG or below with a December/January use year that provides a longer window than exists for the VIP points. Since that window will exist, I'm not entirely sure that it would be universally beneficial to deposit the points before August.

One thing that isn't entirely clear to me is whether they will require a separate PDF fee for VIP and non-VIP points.
 

paxsarah

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Will the website function properly for all the contingencies? Will CS actually understand all the rules and the complexities?
This really is the biggest question. There are a lot of ways that different types of points can or should be able to combine. Do we trust that they've thought through them all?

This is also why I'm watching this closely although the VIP changes don't directly effect me - because the website will. I'm prepared for the website to behave erratically for the foreseeable future.
 

Eric B

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Will the website function properly for all the contingencies?
This really is the biggest question. There are a lot of ways that different types of points can or should be able to combine. Do we trust that they've thought through them all?

This is also why I'm watching this closely although the VIP changes don't directly effect me - because the website will. I'm prepared for the website to behave erratically for the foreseeable future.
The video they provided on the website doesn't instill confidence for me in that. They didn't take the time to think about how they want the system to work well enough to communicate to the folks putting that together how to depict it realistically, which calls into question how well they've drafted the requirements for the IT folks to develop the system to implement it. If you look at the listing of transactions, it seems like for some reason depositing points in an external exchange is a positive transaction while reservations are negative ones. There's also one example of a week being booked at Bonnet Creek that cost 400,000 each from four different benefit categories, making a total of 1,600,000 (which wasn't displayed). It had dates from November 10-17, 2020, which would put it in Value season. Seems a bit unrealistic on both counts. (Edited - frame is at 1:00 in video)
 

raygo123

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Question:
If you need to combine both VIP eligible and non eligible points for a large reservation and thus book using non-VIP eligible and borrow some of your VIP-eligible points, will those combine for ARP purposes (e.g. if you own both retail and resale CWA contracts)?
There is no reason why they should not combine. CWA benefits are not VIP BENEFITS.

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rapmarks

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I spoke to someone I have known over twenty years who formerly Worked in sales for Wyndham about the rental issues. He said that one thanksgiving weekend, 94% of the bookings at Glacier Canyon were rentals.
 

paxsarah

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There is no reason why they should not combine. CWA benefits are not VIP BENEFITS.
I think we can all agree that there is no reason why they should not combine. That's quite a different question than "will they combine?". ;)
 

Ty1on

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There is no reason why they should not combine. CWA benefits are not VIP BENEFITS.

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I believe this is incorrect, if I understand you. While CWA benefits are not VIP benefits, CWA has unique ARP benefits and non-CWA cannot combine with CWA for CWA ARP benefits any more so than Bonnet Creek points can combine with National Harbor points for National Harbor ARP.
 

paxsarah

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I believe this is incorrect, if I understand you. While CWA benefits are not VIP benefits, CWA has unique ARP benefits and non-CWA cannot combine with CWA for CWA ARP benefits any more so than Bonnet Creek points can combine with National Harbor points for National Harbor ARP.
My original question, though, was can a VIP-eligible CWA contract and a non-VIP eligible CWA contract combine for VIP. According to the documentation, this would require booking with non-VIP points and borrowing VIP points - in that instance, will the system allow them to combine for ARP? Obviously they should, but will they?
 

Ty1on

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My original question, though, was can a VIP-eligible CWA contract and a non-VIP eligible CWA contract combine for VIP. According to the documentation, this would require booking with non-VIP points and borrowing VIP points - in that instance, will the system allow them to combine for ARP? Obviously they should, but will they?
That is a really good question now that I understand it, because I've always understood that CWA ARP inventory has been sequestered from deeded ARP inventory.
 

raygo123

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The video they provided on the website doesn't instill confidence for me in that. They didn't take the time to think about how they want the system to work well enough to communicate to the folks putting that together how to depict it realistically, which calls into question how well they've drafted the requirements for the IT folks to develop the system to implement it. If you look at the listing of transactions, it seems like for some reason depositing points in an external exchange is a positive transaction while reservations are negative ones. There's also one example of a week being booked at Bonnet Creek that cost 400,000 each from four different benefit categories, making a total of 1,600,000 (which wasn't displayed). It had dates from November 10-17, 2020, which would put it in Value season. Seems a bit unrealistic on both counts. (Edited - frame is at 1:00 in video)
I am working off memory but I recall someone saying that either Worldmark or Shell had the technology to distinguish between retail and resale.

As far as booking with a combination of both kinds of points,. That's easy. One only has to look at the old pay phones. A nickel was on tone, a quarter another and so on. In stead of tones, it is yes or no. If in the 10 month window all coins drop, or all points are good. so any point Will work. If ARP ONLY THE DEEDED POINTS OR CWA DEPENDING on use. If RARP only VIP and deposit forward points will drop.

Your resale points are now slugs, we used the metal punch out from electrical boxes to make phone calls. Using resale points was no more than cutting a hole in a quarter and attaching a wire.

Wyndham was not talking about the owner that uses the 50% discount window once or twice,. Wyndham went to the automatic upgrade to curb giving points away. This is merely an extension of reducing the number of points given to ALL VIP OWNERS. If Wyndham could have done everything they wanted to implement when the new website came out I believe this would have been one of them. Not only does it keep money in their pocket but a possible revenue stream, rentals, or additional VIP benefits.

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raygo123

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I believe this is incorrect, if I understand you. While CWA benefits are not VIP benefits, CWA has unique ARP benefits and non-CWA cannot combine with CWA for CWA ARP benefits any more so than Bonnet Creek points can combine with National Harbor points for National Harbor ARP.
Not in the standard window. There are no benefits in the 10 month window.

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Ty1on

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Worldmark distinguishes between Travelshare and standard, which is essentially between store bought and resale, with the understanding that you can buy developer points and opt out of Travelshare.
 

Ty1on

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Not in the standard window. There are no benefits in the 10 month window.

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Can you point out where in my post I used the term, "Standard window"?
 
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