Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[troy12n]

I had no idea the CEO of Wyndham is in his 40's or very early 50's... that's surprising.

 

[Eric B]

The membership directory prior to the current directory contained verbiage that explicitly stated that VIP benefits do not apply to resale points. You know this better than most, having explicitly stated this repeatedly in your own posts. The current directory omitted this statement and only included the resale statements with respect to VIP level eligibility. Wyndham likely omitted the statement from the current directory to avoid taking continual heat over this topic from non-VIP owners until they could actually do something about it. I don’t disagree that it is a major change - but it is a compliance change regardless - bringing the online systems into compliance can sometimes result in minor changes and sometimes result in major changes, in this instance for a very small proportion of the ownership base which is overly represented here on TUG IME.


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Haven’t been an owner that long and didn’t pay enough attention to the verbiage regarding resale contracts when I purchased initially because I didn’t have any. For my education, can you provide the wording that had been used and its source? It does make a difference, and may be why they prefer to settle rather than litigate.

 

[VAlegacy]

This does not affect anything having to do with PIC Plus. It only applies to resales. PIC Plus points will be treated the same as before. I confirmed this with Owner Care today. If anyone hears otherwise, please let us know.

I would have PIC'd to make all points eligible for VIP benefits, not just those obtained from PICs

 

[Ty1on]

Glad I never did a PIC.

A PIC doesn't count as resale points, so having done a PIC wouldn't have any negative consequence from this change.

 

[Ty1on]

I would have PIC'd to make all points eligible for VIP benefits, not just those obtained from PICs

PIC doesn't make resale points eligible for VIP. VIP level is calculated using developer points, PIC points, and date of contracts (for grandfathering purposes)

 

[bnoble]

I think what @VAlegacy means is: they were considering using PIC plus a purchase to qualify an account that already had a fair number of resale points, to apply benefits to those points as well.

 

[dgalati]

Haven’t been an owner that long and didn’t pay enough attention to the verbiage regarding resale contracts when I purchased initially because I didn’t have any. For my education, can you provide the wording that had been used and its source? It does make a difference, and may be why they prefer to settle rather than litigate.

To save you time looking up past threads here it is. It was discussed many times over the last 3 years.

 

[Ty1on]

I think what @VAlegacy means is: they were considering using PIC plus a purchase to qualify an account that already had a fair number of resale points, to apply benefits to those points as well.

If that's what they are saying, then it's a good thing they didn't do PIC

On that note, lots of people probably took the dive into developer points knowing they could leverage that purchase with benefits applicable to resale points. I do also empathize with those being hurt by this change.

 

[dgalati]

If that's what they are saying, then it's a good thing they didn't do PIC

On that note, lots of people probably took the dive into developer points knowing they could leverage that purchase with benefits applicable to resale points. I do also empathize with those being hurt by this change.

It was never a benefit to use resale points with VIP benefits. It was discussed here many times but fell on deaf ears. It was a loophole that was abused by VIP owners. Please dont empathize or feel anyone was hurt in a change.. It was all clearly stated in the members directory.

 

[Ty1on]

It was never a benefit to use resale points with VIP benefits. It was discussed here many times but fell on deaf ears. It was a loophole that was abused by VIP owners. Please dont empathize or feel anyone was hurt in a change.. It was all clearly stated in the members directory.
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Okay Mr. Broken Record. Some folks were coached by salesmen or otherwise believed this was a benefit of buying developer. Rather than constantly trolling others, if you can't say something nice, how about only be an AH once and not repeatedly?

 

[DeniseM]

I am closing this thread for a timeout until tomorrow. If you want it reopened tomorrow, consider being civil.

 

[DeniseM]

Good morning, boys and girls! If I have to close this thread again, it won't be just a timeout.

Please attack the ISSUES not each other.

 

[Eric B]

It's not really a change - but rather a compliance issue coming into full swing. For years all of the documentation for CWP owners has either directly stated that VIP benefits don't apply toward resale points - or any verbiage either way is just plain omitted altogether - leaving it as a perk. The fact that Wyndham is now enforcing the policy directive via the online systems many years after stating the policies in the documentation isn't surprising. Many of us have expected a change like this to come eventually - though admittedly I didn't think it would come this quickly - I figured it would align with the next iteration of changes to the VIP program itself - but that's the game we play when it comes to speculation - it's anyone's guess at the end of the day.

My apologies re: the historical wording on VIP-eligibility for resale points, it was pretty explicit in the 2014 directory that predated my initial Wyndham purchase and wasn’t in effect when I picked up resale points. This does raise a pretty major question of why there haven’t been any shareholder lawsuits against Wyndham for the gross mismanagement and undercharging for those reservations over the years.

 

[Ty1on]

My apologies re: the historical wording on VIP-eligibility for resale points, it was pretty explicit in the 2014 directory that predated my initial Wyndham purchase and wasn’t in effect when I picked up resale points. This does raise a pretty major question of why there haven’t been any shareholder lawsuits against Wyndham for the gross mismanagement and undercharging for those reservations over the years.

Wyndham hasn't undercharged for the reservations. They backfill the discounted points with developer owned points.

 

[Cyrus24]

I'm not a moderator and have done my share of stirring over time, but, we do need to keep this conversation civil. A few people are in for a real shocking adjustment as it relates to their individual Wyndham account while many others are looking forward to the change with something between excitement and real trepidation. We need to respect how this is impacting the individual owners and their real like situations. Whether you are VIP or not, owned resale or just developer or or owned a combination of resale/developer, we will all be impacted by the coming change. I'd like us to stick to the change that is coming and look forward. Sharing what we are seeing more than sharing what we are feeling about the feelings of others. Try not to blame each other or attack. We are all in this together. Staying relaxed about the change is relatively easy for me. As a VIPP with some resale, my biggest concern is over how Wyndham will roll this out from an IT perspective. Wyndham has a horrible track record in that regard. On that, I'm sure we all feel the same. I may dump my Grand Desert resale just to eliminate clutter in my account, or, I may book a high demand week/resort at 10 months strictly for the purpose of renting or try to do the balancing act with 2 RT's and 2 HK's sitting over on the side, away from the VIP account.

What I'm interested in, mostly, is what we are seeing, things that can be backed up with data. Little nuances, big bugs, changes in availability, rental prices, Extra Holidays, etc. Those are things that impact myself and others. Share that. Let people vent about Wyndham, show some respect, don't brag and don't fuel the flames. I like having threads open so that I can learn. Let keep this one open.

 

[Jan M.]

My apologies re: the historical wording on VIP-eligibility for resale points, it was pretty explicit in the 2014 directory that predated my initial Wyndham purchase and wasn’t in effect when I picked up resale points. This does raise a pretty major question of why there haven’t been any shareholder lawsuits against Wyndham for the gross mismanagement and undercharging for those reservations over the years.

This may answer your question. DH is a former president of the board of directors for the HOA where we live. There was something in our bylaws that hadn't been enforced but became necessary to enforce. The attorney for the HOA advised him that as long they announced that going forward it would be enforced for all residents they were in the clear. Wyndham announced it.

We've owned since 2002 and were always told when we bought and I believe it was also in all the directories over the years that resale points aren't eligible to receive VIP benefits.

 

[HitchHiker71]

My apologies re: the historical wording on VIP-eligibility for resale points, it was pretty explicit in the 2014 directory that predated my initial Wyndham purchase and wasn’t in effect when I picked up resale points. This does raise a pretty major question of why there haven’t been any shareholder lawsuits against Wyndham for the gross mismanagement and undercharging for those reservations over the years.

No need to apologize - it's not necessarily common knowledge. I haven't been an owner for that long either, having joined Wyndham in July 2018. Yes - it was explicitly stated in the past member directories - but was omitted from the 2018-2019 directory as discussed. Omission doesn't equate with tacit approval - it simply creates a gray area that we often refer to as a perk.

As another poster already indicated - there really isn't any undercharging per se. The VIP program overall, to the best of my understanding, is paid for via a mixture of the program fees and monies provided from the Sales & Marketing division. My current understanding is that the points discounts enjoyed by VIPs in the discount window - along with the free room upgrades - are paid for by the Sales & Marketing division. This division pays for the points discount program because it's their biggest upsell opportunity for developer sales. If the discounting becomes too expensive, which may have been the case with resale points enjoying VIP discounts as a perk, then any change would likely be driven by this same division, since removing this perk will make it more difficult to upsell existing VIP owners as well as prospective non-VIP owners considering the VIP benefits. This is only speculation on my part to be clear, but it makes sense at least on the surface.

 

[Jan M.]

my biggest concern is over how Wyndham will roll this out from an IT perspective. Wyndham has a horrible track record in that regard. On that, I'm sure we all feel the same.

I'll have to eat my own words about telling people to stop saying Wyndham can't or won't do something. I always thought when it happened that they would set up separate accounts for developer and resale points. I didn't see how they could possibly do what they're doing in one account. That it would be too complex to even contemplate especially with a system that has had so many issues.

I'd be breathing a sigh of relief if some of our IT experts here on TUG were saying it's easy peasy to do and there's nothing to worry about.

 

[VacayKat]

So here’s a question - any ideas on whether Wyndham might be breaking things like the transaction history accidentally in their behind the scenes prep for this major change? In my account right now the pt # available in the upper right hand doesn’t match the one on the transaction history. And my previous years??? either they are missing or wildly wrong (i’m in the hole like 700k for last year). I think coupled with the assertion that this is an enhancement for owners the ongoing appearance of ineptitude adds to the fear that the repercussions of this change will be felt harshly.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I'm not a moderator and have done my share of stirring over time, but, we do need to keep this conversation civil. A few people are in for a real shocking adjustment as it relates to their individual Wyndham account while many others are looking forward to the change with something between excitement and real trepidation. We need to respect how this is impacting the individual owners and their real like situations. Whether you are VIP or not, owned resale or just developer or or owned a combination of resale/developer, we will all be impacted by the coming change. I'd like us to stick to the change that is coming and look forward. Sharing what we are seeing more than sharing what we are feeling about the feelings of others. Try not to blame each other or attack. We are all in this together. Staying relaxed about the change is relatively easy for me. As a VIPP with some resale, my biggest concern is over how Wyndham will roll this out from an IT perspective. Wyndham has a horrible track record in that regard. On that, I'm sure we all feel the same. I may dump my Grand Desert resale just to eliminate clutter in my account, or, I may book a high demand week/resort at 10 months strictly for the purpose of renting or try to do the balancing act with 2 RT's and 2 HK's sitting over on the side, away from the VIP account.

What I'm interested in, mostly, is what we are seeing, things that can be backed up with data. Little nuances, big bugs, changes in availability, rental prices, Extra Holidays, etc. Those are things that impact myself and others. Share that. Let people vent about Wyndham, show some respect, don't brag and don't fuel the flames. I like having threads open so that I can learn. Let keep this one open.

Agreed. I try my best not to stir the pot - and I try to practice using the Ignore function With respect to my own account, I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to adapt, but here's how my ownership breaks down right now:

• 210k CWA developer points
• 508k PIC Plus developer points
• 688.5k CWS National Harbor resale points

Given I own a somewhat large resale contract, my current thinking is to use the resale contract for my larger family vacation bookings - since we typically book 1-2 week+ long family vacations in larger units. For example, next year we've already got one and a half weeks booked at TOTG - which unfortunately will come out of our developer points bucket since I booked it using RARP. I'd have to wait until 7/23/2022 - just a couple of days from now - to book it in the standard window - so I may end up canceling the RARP reservation and rebooking within the standard window - in the hopes that when they process the changes in mid-August - the system will deduct the points from our resale bucket. Given we will only receive 2 GCs, 8 HK credits, and 9 RTs for our resale contract - it would be better using it for larger reservations. I'd also use our resale points when booking for other family members. For our developer points - I'd reserve these for the couples trips my wife and I typically take - long weekend getaways either with just the two of us - or with another couple - mostly booked within the 60 day discount window and requesting free room upgrades. My strategy may change moving forward since these changes were just announced - but this is my current plan at least.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I'll have to eat my own words about telling people to stop saying Wyndham can't or won't do something. I always thought when it happened that they would set up separate accounts for developer and resale points. I didn't see how they could possibly do what they're doing in one account. That it would be too complex to even contemplate especially with a system that has had so many issues.

I'd be breathing a sigh of relief if some of our IT experts here on TUG were saying it's easy peasy to do and there's nothing to worry about.

As an IT person this is actually easy if the database is right and you have organized it sufficiently (something call 3rd normal form). We know that pointa in an account are from a contract. We know we have information about that contract, ie. CWA vs CWP vs PR, # points associated, etc. Wyndham does all that now and does know resale vs developer on those same points. So now it only has to add logic that looks at the rules of booking: How many points, what is involved (VIP Discount, upgrade, ARP, SRP, ERP etc) and flag that transaction. It just has to do some YTD calculations (total Annual account points by bucket, Used YTD by bucket, and it can use that will use that to determine if the booking you are requesting can fit.

I am assuming it is actually storing these *transaction logs") and not dynamically calculating it, as it appears on the dashboard summary and is persistently displayed.

If you have the right data and relationships, you can get to what you need. It is when the data and keys are lacking that makes reporting very difficult to NOT possible.

 

[dgalati]

I'll have to eat my own words about telling people to stop saying Wyndham can't or won't do something. I always thought when it happened that they would set up separate accounts for developer and resale points. I didn't see how they could possibly do what they're doing in one account. That it would be too complex to even contemplate especially with a system that has had so many issues.

I'd be breathing a sigh of relief if some of our IT experts here on TUG were saying it's easy peasy to do and there's nothing to worry about.

Jan Wyndham used to have separate buckets before the system changed in 2016. I used to be able to book a reservation and request what deed the points came out of by calling in. As I used the points from each deed I would give the deed away or sell it for a small amount to cover what I had in it. It also allowed APR based on what deed had points available. As you know this all changed and it became one bucket of points. It looks like Wyndham is going back to operating the way it used to be but with the visibility of seeing it online. I am not a expert on IT but IMHO This shouldn't be a problem if Wyndham hires a competent IT team.

 

[Cyrus24]

So here’s a question - any ideas on whether Wyndham might be breaking things like the transaction history accidentally in their behind the scenes prep for this major change? In my account right now the pt # available in the upper right hand doesn’t match the one on the transaction history. And my previous years??? either they are missing or wildly wrong (i’m in the hole like 700k for last year). I think coupled with the assertion that this is an enhancement for owners the ongoing appearance of ineptitude adds to the fear that the repercussions of this change will be felt harshly.

It’s sad that they will not fix this and is part of my concern regarding the change. The concern over a butchered account far outweighs the concern over the change, itself.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I'll have to eat my own words about telling people to stop saying Wyndham can't or won't do something. I always thought when it happened that they would set up separate accounts for developer and resale points. I didn't see how they could possibly do what they're doing in one account. That it would be too complex to even contemplate especially with a system that has had so many issues.

I'd be breathing a sigh of relief if some of our IT experts here on TUG were saying it's easy peasy to do and there's nothing to worry about.

I'll try to give you some sense of relief as requested. The reality is this. The points buckets have existed within the back office systems for a long time now. These points buckets simply haven't been exposed to the front office website. So the good news is that most the core functionalities for the points buckets - those are a known quantity and changes to the back office systems shouldn't be necessary - or somewhat minimal when compared to the front office changes. The bad news is that the logic for processing resale reservations separately likely either didn't exist or must be changed as a result of the recently announced changes. That said, the overall the changes to how the reservation components work isn't rocket science. As long as the logic is programmed correctly - making net new reservations after mid-August when these changes are moved into production - I expect we'll see some bugs as always - but it should work for the majority of use cases from the outset. That said, I'd expect Wyndham TUG owners to fair worse than most normal owners - since many Wyndham TUG owner accounts - especially those who fall into the commercial rental business bucket - are far from normal accounts and are outliers by definition. Expect problems if you have millions of points, hundreds of transactions, dozens or hundreds of GC/HK/RT activities. Just one man's opinion.

The bigger change that I'd be more concerned about is the points adjustments based upon account audits that have been announced. Essentially they are doing an account audit for the current use year for all impacted VIP owners and performing changes to points buckets and GC/HK/RT counts retroactively best estimate. I tend to agree with the consensus - take screenshots of your account information the day before the changes are rolled out. This is the area where I'd expect the most heartache.

 

[HitchHiker71]

So here’s a question - any ideas on whether Wyndham might be breaking things like the transaction history accidentally in their behind the scenes prep for this major change? In my account right now the pt # available in the upper right hand doesn’t match the one on the transaction history. And my previous years??? either they are missing or wildly wrong (i’m in the hole like 700k for last year). I think coupled with the assertion that this is an enhancement for owners the ongoing appearance of ineptitude adds to the fear that the repercussions of this change will be felt harshly.

If you don't typically look at your Tx history - go back and look at it again after running through it initially. I saw some odd behavior back a couple weeks ago when I went looking for some older transactions. When initially loading the Tx history - it was completely jacked up. I went back in like 30 minutes later and looked at my transaction history again - and it was fine at that point. From what I could tell - the data from the back end doesn't populate in entirety right away - and the browser therefore may only show a subset of the data on initial load. The problem resolved itself within 30 minutes IME.