Living thru Hell Week Aruba right now

[jimf41]

The thread continues because folks are outraged by the behavior. Since this particular group has done this year after year it's time to put put the PC stuff away and call them out on every possible forum.

No problem has ever been resolved by people refusing to discuss it or having others try to dissuade you from discussing it. Personally I hope this is the top thread throughout the year.

 

[SueDonJ]

Please, use the "Report Post" function if you have a problem with a certain post. We mods are doing what we can but it doesn't help if you add further commentary to a questionable post.

As has been stated in this and other related threads many times, the reason TUG allows the discussion is because without it, folks may find themselves in the center of what some have come to believe is a terrible situation. I don't think any of us would prefer that the topic be forever banned because we're not able to discuss it civilly.

 

[SueDonJ]

As the NYS Regents Week theory has now been discredited, it seems to me that the week usually coincides with MLK week. At least that's what it has coiincided with over the past several years from my readings on the topic. Sometimes MLK week falls on the 15th, sometimes on the 21st. That would explain the difference in Hell Week seemingly falling in the middle of the month sometimes rather than later.

Thanks, I wondered about that connection, too. A few different things in the Sticky posts will be reviewed during the next week or so and this is one of them.

 

[rpk113]

[Link disabled, post being reviewed.]

Is this school affiliated with the trip to Aruba? Did you mean to include this link as a way to verify the dates for upcoming years? Because I can't get the calendar to load past October 2014.

just calendar...

 

[SueDonJ]

just calendar...

Are you able to load it through January and verify that the school is involved? The link is useless if not.

 

[rpk113]

Are you able to load it through January and verify that the school is involved? The link is useless if not.

Perhaps.. but could be helpful to others.. You can usually assume its MLK week (not all the time, but I give it a safe 90%)

 

[Fern Modena]

:::sigh::: "Sephardic" Jewish refers to the area where they or their ancestors come from. The other main group is Ashkenazic. Neither group is a group of people who go to Aruba, who you are painting with a wide brush. There is a group of Sephardi who are organized by a specific Rabbi who go every year. I have no idea if they are from the same synaguage or not.

Sephardi generally come from Spain, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, and the Spanish speaking areas of Mexico, Central and south America (although some South American Jewish people are decendents of Ashkenazi). Ashkenazi come from Europe (except as above) and eastern Rurope.

I am Ashkenazi. End of history lesson.

Fern

Seth, i'm not referring to the Orthodox community whatsoever. It's the Sephardics I'm talking about. Completely different. Again, it's not a religious issue. It's an issue of respect for others.

 

[rpk113]

Why is this year's thread permitted to languish and prosper for so long. We all get the drift here, but I am really perplexed as to why the mods continue to permit bashing of this particular group.

While I don't agree with the abuse that the guests have to endure. (BTW I own at this resort) there is blatant prejudice, and stereotyping in this thread.

This needs to stop now!

Especially from post #172 and the link.

By the way RPK113 you may live in Rockland, but this particular subgroup appears to be from Queens, or other parts of NYC.

I would venture to say they come from parts of Nassau County, like Great Neck and the South Shore including the 5 towns area rather than the Rockland sect.

Billy did I give away my childhood home that easily? I disagree with you, but its fair to have your point. Like psguru said, i have friends in these communities and I enjoy their company so I dont lump them all into one "faction". But I'll throw another old saying out there "One rotten apple spoils the bunch".

 

[billymach4]

I have a suggestion. Perhaps the OP or anyone that is at the Aruba Surf Club now can gather some real "Intel".

Seriously... Please get friendly with one of the Adults of this group, or perhaps a few of the adult couples. Find out Who, How, or What arranges this gathering year after year. Use a cover story like " I really think it is great that you all get together every year" Blah Blah Blah.

Get some real useful info. PM to me or anyone else. I will assist in finding out who, and how this is organized.

Then we can start to maybe let the organization know how foolish they are being viewed to the outside world.

Otherwise we are all guessing , beating around the bush, looking at useless links and calendars trying to nail it down.

 

[billymach4]

Billy did I give away my childhood home that easily? I disagree with you, but its fair to have your point. Like psguru said, i have friends in these communities and I enjoy their company so I dont lump them all into one "faction". But I'll throw another old saying out there "One rotten apple spoils the bunch".

Believe me... I know the kind of "Rotten Apples" that are being discussed here. I have witnessed this behavior outside of Aruba.

 

[rpk113]

I too, at least we agree on that...

 

[SueDonJ]

I have a suggestion. Perhaps the OP or anyone that is at the Aruba Surf Club now can gather some real "Intel".

Seriously... Please get friendly with one of the Adults of this group, or perhaps a few of the adult couples. Find out Who, How, or What arranges this gathering year after year. Use a cover story like " I really think it is great that you all get together every year" Blah Blah Blah.

Get some real useful info. PM to me or anyone else. I will assist in finding out who, and how this is organized.

Then we can start to maybe let the organization know how foolish they are being viewed to the outside world.

Otherwise we are all guessing , beating around the bush, looking at useless links and calendars trying to nail it down.

You have that contact information in the link previously discussed that's outdated. (sephardicaruba.com) Just because it's not updated with current dates and activities, doesn't mean it can't be used as a point of reference for the folks who organize this same trip every year.

In the hope of advancing a civil conversation on TUG about this, I hope you'll share any relevant or positive feedback that you receive.

 

[SueDonJ]

:::sigh::: "Sephardic" Jewish refers to the area where they or their ancestors come from. The other main group is Ashkenazic. Neither group is a group of people who go to Aruba, who you are painting with a wide brush. There is a group of Sephardi who are organized by a specific Rabbi who go every year. I have no idea if they are from the same synaguage or not.

Sephardi generally come from Spain, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, and the Spanish speaking areas of Mexico, Central and south America (although some South American Jewish people are decendents of Ashkenazi). Ashkenazi come from Europe (except as above) and eastern Rurope.

I am Ashkenazi. End of history lesson.

Fern

Thank you, Fern. I do worry that I don't know enough to know whether the things I say can be construed as insulting when that's certainly not my intent. Every little bit of knowledge helps.

 

[DB-Wis]

After 188 posts over three days, I think this horse (i.e., this topic) has been beat to death.

I suggest that anyone who feels compelled to say something more on this topic should write it down, wait 24 hours, and then, if it still seems important, post it.

I'm all for open discussion, but sometimes these things just have to end.

 

[caterina25]

I don't understand what's wrong with that. I was a very strong swimmer from a young age, my daughter was about average. I wouldn't have had a problem with her in a lazy river at 3 or 4.

That is another question i have.....If they are doing damage to the resort that is a major issue and something that needs to be dealt with and the disrespect to the OP is NOT to be tolerated, i would have dragged that kid by its arm back to mom and dad and made sure they learned better....But, kids being kids, playing catch, climbing on rocks, running/jumping, swimming....may annoy you, but kids deserve to enjoy their vacation also.

Signed,
Seth from NY

Then make sure you book that week, if you go.We could then get your perspective of the kids being kids.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Then make sure you book that week, if you go.We could then get your perspective of the kids being kids.

I'm booked at Smugglers Notch for the July 4th holiday....I doubt it'll be much different

 

[Larry]

"The Group"

:::sigh::: "Sephardic" Jewish refers to the area where they or their ancestors come from. The other main group is Ashkenazic. Neither group is a group of people who go to Aruba, who you are painting with a wide brush. There is a group of Sephardi who are organized by a specific Rabbi who go every year. I have no idea if they are from the same synaguage or not.

Sephardi generally come from Spain, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, and the Spanish speaking areas of Mexico, Central and south America (although some South American Jewish people are decendents of Ashkenazi). Ashkenazi come from Europe (except as above) and eastern Rurope.

I am Ashkenazi. End of history lesson.

Fern

Fern you are the first person on this board who has any idea of what you are talking about when referring to "The Group". Again as others have said trying to identify a group in order to "out" them is not what anyone on this board should be concerned about. Several people on this board are painting a wide brush in a disparaging and sometimes nasty manner and chastising and entire group when this is a very small faction within the sephardic community.

As Fern states and I will enlighten everyone even further Sepahardic jews come from all of the areas that Fern mentioned plus Northern Africa (ie Ethiopia and Morroco) Middle Eastern countries such as Syria, Egypt, or Iran and many spanish speaking countries. As you can see this is a wide and diverse group of people and I for one take offense to outing "sephardic Jews, orthodox jews and jews in general" etc etc as these threads have degenerated to and I am glad that the powers that be at TUG have eliminated most of these threads.

So getting back on point most private Hebrew schools are closed in NY and NJ during January. The week in question always starts on the third Thursday in January and that is why it is usually week 3 but can be week 4 depending on what your check in day is. Check in days at Surf Club start Thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday ( I am not sure if they have a Monday Check in day). I own at the Ocean Club and their check in days are Friday-Monday.

As you can see the week that "the group" is there falls within that timeframe every year and although that will almost always coincide with ML King day or NY Regents neither, has anything to do with when the group is there.

Let's be sure we are talking of a small group relative to the entire Sephardic community and they almost all own two Platinum weeks at either the Surf Club or the Ocean club. They are also mostly part of a few extended sephardic families of Syrian origin and come every year. If you don't want to be there in the future it should be pretty easy for everyone to now figure out the dates. Most of my friends are appalled by the behavior that is exhibited by some within this group of about 200 people but to condemn all who practice a common religion or come from one of the sephardic regions mentioned should not be part of any discussion on this or any other board.

 

[SueDonJ]

Thank you, Larry. Just like my response to Fern, it's appreciated that you're sharing your knowledge. If we'd been able to discuss the topic fully for all these years, maybe any misinformation wouldn't have persisted.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm booked at Smugglers Notch for the July 4th holiday....I doubt it'll be much different

If not, I hope you share your experiences then.

 

[chris5]

:::sigh::: "Sephardic" Jewish refers to the area where they or their ancestors come from. The other main group is Ashkenazic. Neither group is a group of people who go to Aruba, who you are painting with a wide brush. There is a group of Sephardi who are organized by a specific Rabbi who go every year. I have no idea if they are from the same synaguage or not.

Sephardi generally come from Spain, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, and the Spanish speaking areas of Mexico, Central and south America (although some South American Jewish people are decendents of Ashkenazi). Ashkenazi come from Europe (except as above) and eastern Rurope.

I am Ashkenazi. End of history lesson.

Fern

Sigh, your history lesson appears incomplete. You left out Sephardi from the African Continent in the Sahara region. Not to mention the omission of Beta Israel of Ethiopia. I'll let knowledgeable historians discuss Mizrahi, which is another story altogether.

I'm not competent to discuss this history and all of this is beside the point of the thread. The confusion it appears to me about painting with a broad brush resulted from not placing the object of attention on the one Rabbi, one Temple, one group of people who vacation at the Marriott Aruba Resorts during one week in January every year. They received a free pass from appropriate condemnation for their rude, uncivil and, in some cases, outrageous behavior because of reluctance to call them out.

I agree that some of the condemnatory language used might have unfortunately included blatant stereotyping and anti-Semitic tones, but this language is now called out by the Moderators and over-the-top, clear anti-Semitism language will now, according to TUG, get you banned from this forum.

 

[TUGBrian]

I personally could care less what "group" they are a part of...other than being a group of people who appear to have no consideration of others.

I have read nearly every post, and have yet to see someone claim that every other person of the same ANYTHING other than this specific group of organized folk....are to blame for any of this.

If you are offended by a group of folks who go by a specific name themselves, being called that specific name...well then stop opening this post.

noone here will put down the jewish religion, or even this particular sect of it (if im even saying that right)....nor have I seen that happen to date in this thread.

 

[ilene13]

Fern you are the first person on this board who has any idea of what you are talking about when referring to "The Group". Again as others have said trying to identify a group in order to "out" them is not what anyone on this board should be concerned about. Several people on this board are painting a wide brush in a disparaging and sometimes nasty manner and chastising and entire group when this is a very small faction within the sephardic community.

As Fern states and I will enlighten everyone even further Sepahardic jews come from all of the areas that Fern mentioned plus Northern Africa (ie Ethiopia and Morroco) Middle Eastern countries such as Syria, Egypt, or Iran and many spanish speaking countries. As you can see this is a wide and diverse group of people and I for one take offense to outing "sephardic Jews, orthodox jews and jews in general" etc etc as these threads have degenerated to and I am glad that the powers that be at TUG have eliminated most of these threads.

So getting back on point most private Hebrew schools are closed in NY and NJ during January. The week in question always starts on the third Thursday in January and that is why it is usually week 3 but can be week 4 depending on what your check in day is. Check in days at Surf Club start Thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday ( I am not sure if they have a Monday Check in day). I own at the Ocean Club and their check in days are Friday-Monday.

As you can see the week that "the group" is there falls within that timeframe every year and although that will almost always coincide with ML King day or NY Regents neither, has anything to do with when the group is there.

Let's be sure we are talking of a small group relative to the entire Sephardic community and they almost all own two Platinum weeks at either the Surf Club or the Ocean club. They are also mostly part of a few extended sephardic families of Syrian origin and come every year. If you don't want to be there in the future it should be pretty easy for everyone to now figure out the dates. Most of my friends are appalled by the behavior that is exhibited by some within this group of about 200 people but to condemn all who practice a common religion or come from one of the sephardic regions mentioned should not be part of any discussion on this or any other board.

Thank you both. My heritage is both Ashkenazi and Sephardic. The behaviors of the group has absolutely nothing to do with their heritage only their entitlement issues.

 

[HatTrick]

BUMP

It's been over an hour since the last post.

 

[billymach4]

You have that contact information in the link previously discussed that's outdated. (sephardicaruba.com) Just because it's not updated with current dates and activities, doesn't mean it can't be used as a point of reference for the folks who organize this same trip every year.

In the hope of advancing a civil conversation on TUG about this, I hope you'll share any relevant or positive feedback that you receive.

Bingo!!! Great!

Do a reverse look up on 718-627-5300.
This is the number to the Sephardic Lebanese Congregation. The phone number is in the sehpardicaruba.com site.

Here is the link. http://slcsynagogue.org/

Rabbi Elbaz is mentioned in the sephardicaruba.com, and the synagogue site.

Sue we can take this offline if you would like? I am of the opinion that the leaders of this community should be aware of the "perceived" behavior of this group. How would should we proceed. I am willing to help but I don't want to offend anyone in the group. I need the support of the TUG community, if I am going to represent TUG.

 

[billymach4]

BUMP

It's been over an hour since the last post.

Why so quiet? Sue must be off shift?