Living thru Hell Week Aruba right now

[csxjohn]

Until someone posts a video or photos I still think this is all a hoax.

I got into an argument over a parking space yesterday - there were three people video taping me and two others taking pictures of my license plate - one with a professional camera - and it was like 10 degrees outside.

This board and the Aruba-bb board scream bloody murder every year about Hell week, yet not a video exists. Not even a random picture. Just a bunch of embellished third hand BS.

I should just quit being frustrated and go down there next year and find out for myself.

I've never seen the North Pole or a video or photo of it but I'm pretty sure it's there none the less based on other people's accounts.

If you're going to argue over a parking space to the extent that others are photographing your license, I nominate you to go down there and give us the straight dope.

I don't think you'd let anyone bully you around so you'd be a good candidate to tape the proceedings.

 

[Weimaraner]

You're right Wally. It's just one elaborate grand scheme to ruin the reputation of the Surf Club and Ocean Club and the 4 weeks I've invested in with Marriott. Go the third week in January, get yourself a waterproof camera, and keep it rolling all day long in the pool mid-week and have some fun. Better yet, have your wife and small child do it for you. I can guarantee I won't be there and have made my reservations for other dates.

 

[chris5]

Chutzpah

From Wikipedia:

Leo Rosten in The Joys of Yiddish defines chutzpah as "gall, brazen nerve, effrontery, incredible 'guts,' presumption plus arrogance such as no other word and no other language can do justice to." In this sense, chutzpah expresses both strong disapproval and condemnation. In the same work, Rosten also defined the term as "that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan." Chutzpah amounts to a total denial of personal responsibility, that renders others speechless and incredulous ... one cannot quite believe that another person totally lacks common human traits like remorse, regret, guilt, sympathy and insight. The implication is at least some degree of psychopathy in the subject, as well as the awestruck amazement of the observer at the display.

The quality of Chutzpah in recent comments about bonds and property damage as reflected here:

Gang/Group: We posted a surety bond, with a third party insurer, to take care of all property damage we might inflict on Marriott and Marriott owners at Aruba.

Marriott Rep: We really don't want the property damaged; the bond might be an incentive for you not to do any damage, since it covers just ordinary negligence inflicted by your group; the insurer normally carves out intentional wrongdoing or criminal acts and we don't want to get into a hassle with the insurer over coverage anyway. (Marriott Rep. thinking this is one pain-in-the-butt hassle.)

Marriott Owner overhearing this conversation: So, they have a surety bond for property damage -- that's just great! They can damage the property with impunity; shift the burden to someone else for some small fee; meanwhile if the property is damaged, it's out of commission for a while and I can't enjoy it for the time I'm here, and who knows what impact this might have on assessments, especially if the insurer does not provide for new replacement value of the property. I hope they don't damage that new pool table; it has a classic feel to it.

Gang/Group: Well, I think under the circumstances we're doing everyone a favor here; our bond takes care of any property damage -- and it would prevent special assessments from occurring for replacing old, antiquated equipment that we damage! It could even lower future assessments too.(Gang thinking: if you can't adjust your behavior, money can solve this problem. Marriott should see it that way as they're in the business of making money and this is right up their alley)

Marriott Rep: I don't think you're doing anyone a favor if we have to exercise payment under the bonds; we don't want the property damaged -- it's upsetting to the other owners and I have the hassle of getting it replaced or repaired. But the bond and payment obligations help. (Marriott thinking: I can tell the front office that I'm being tough on this group with the bond, but WTF is he talking about preventing special assessments or lowering assessments. We have a scheduled replacement reserve fund for equipment and property obsolescence. I don't understand this line of thinking. We all know that insurance coverage rarely covers full cost of new property or repairs.)

Marriott Owner: I can't believe the gall and audacity of this group to believe that throwing money to repair or replace property they damage, in some cases recklessly, is somehow doing us a favor. What chutzpah!

 

[billymach4]

You're right Wally. It's just one elaborate grand scheme to ruin the reputation of the Surf Club and Ocean Club and the 4 weeks I've invested in with Marriott. Go the third week in January, get yourself a waterproof camera, and keep it rolling all day long in the pool mid-week and have some fun. Better yet, have your wife and small child do it for you. I can guarantee I won't be there and have made my reservations for other dates.

I at least hope you will contact Marriott and the congregation.

If you don't take any personal actions then what is the point of this thread.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I wouldn't be surprised if not one penny has ever been paid out of the bond. Obviously I am speculating but it sounds to me like the bond is there to appease the board. Never mind the pics and videos of urinating in the elevator and such, but does anyone have documentation on the damage reimbursements from the bond or is it just for show? Shouldn't something like that be reflected in the financials if transactions existed?

 

[dioxide45]

I wouldn't be surprised if not one penny has ever been paid out of the bond. Obviously I am speculating but it sounds to me like the bond is there to appease the board. Never mind the pics and videos of urinating in the elevator and such, but does anyone have documentation on the damage reimbursements from the bond or is it just for show? Shouldn't something like that be reflected in the financials if transactions existed?

Would it show on the financials as income, or just offset already existing expenses?

 

[Weimaraner]

I at least hope you will contact Marriott and the congregation.

If you don't take any personal actions then what is the point of this thread.

I agree-it's the right thing to do. I will. But I did want to raise issue to help TUGgers be aware and to avoid making my mistake. I have been there in January before without issue and wasnt concerned about kids or investigating the dates. I don't mind a little horseplay on vacation or a lot of kids at play but it was worse than I anticipated. The reason I like TUG is I get such great advice from seasoned travel experts and I hope I helped a Tugger from making my mistake.

 

[billymach4]

I agree-it's the right thing to do. I will. But I did want to raise issue to help TUGgers be aware and to avoid making my mistake. I have been there in January before without issue and wasnt concerned about kids or investigating the dates. I don't mind a little horseplay on vacation or a lot of kids at play but it was worse than I anticipated. The reason I like TUG is I get such great advice from seasoned travel experts and I hope I helped a Tugger from making my mistake.

Good I am glad you plan to follow up. I can sympathize with your experience. After all these resorts are a "shared" experience, and we all deserve common courtesy and common sense behavior. I appreciate the fact that the mods have kept this topic open for adult discussion.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Never mind the pics and videos of urinating in the elevator and such, but does anyone have documentation on the damage reimbursements from the bond or is it just for show?

Are there pictures or videos of that? Do you we have any evidence that they ever HAVE created damage to the resorts? Or are we just assuming they have because of the bond? The bond may just be to cover the extra insurance to cover 'freelance' chefs and elevator operators....Bringing in someone to operate machinery and a kitchen who isn't on the marriott payroll could easily be an insurance issue, so a bond would make sense for that.

So far the only first hand thing i've heard on here was just kid who didn't respect his elders and needed a good smack, but nothing about any actual damage.

I have been there in January before without issue and wasnt concerned about kids or investigating the dates.

I don't mind a little horseplay on vacation or a lot of kids at play but it was worse than I anticipate

These statements conflict. Was there incidences when you went or not?

 

[Weimaraner]

I've been there in January without any problems in the past. Owner for 9 years but haven't been there in awhile. Had heard of the group and Regents. Didn't think much of investigating the dates before we went this Jan since I like kids and didn't think a little horseplay would be an issue. But it was way worse than "horseplay" since the kids are without supervision and out of control.

 

[davidvel]

Are there pictures or videos of that? Do you we have any evidence that they ever HAVE created damage to the resorts? Or are we just assuming they have because of the bond? The bond may just be to cover the extra insurance to cover 'freelance' chefs and elevator operators....Bringing in someone to operate machinery and a kitchen who isn't on the marriott payroll could easily be an insurance issue, so a bond would make sense for that.

So far the only first hand thing i've heard on here was just kid who didn't respect his elders and needed a good smack, but nothing about any actual damage.

These statements conflict. Was there incidences when you went or not?

I've seen no evidence of any bond. Just rumors.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I forgot you were the OP.

Not everyone is bad and I've met parents of other small children who are friendly and provide the same level of supervision for their 6 year olds as I do. I'm talking about the others.

Don't forget, not everyone parents the same way, my daughter was 7yrs old when we went to Sheraton Broadway Plantation. I'm not a helicopter parent, I don't follow her around the whole trip, most of the time, when we were at the pool, i was relaxing in a chair while she was in the pool, lazy river and splash park 'unsupervised', making friends. She's 8yrs old now and we are going to Massanutten next month, odds are pretty good she'll be out skiing or snowboarding without me standing over her also. Now that doesn't mean i'm a horrible parent, i always made sure she knew 100% of the time where *I* was, but I don't think kids can be kids if their parents are always standing over their shoulders. We didn't grow up like that and we did just fine. Why would you treat a kid like a prison inmate that has to be followed around everywhere they go?

Today was last straw when a teen threw a kid in the hot tub. He saw me and said "what is she going to call the police?" And soon after security showed up and I pulled him aside to talk to him when the teenager started to verbally assault me for telling on him.

I don't know you, but i know what i would have done. That kid would have been grabbed up by his arm and either brought to his parents or to the front desk where I would have them 'call' for his parents and his parents would get an earful from me. There is no way some kid should get away with that. Have you seen that child since with adults around him? I'd bring this to their attention immediately! Speaking to you disrespectfully like that was completely unacceptable and i understand you being upset about it.

 

[EducatedConsumer]

I forgot you were the OP

I don't know you, but i know what i would have done. That kid would have been grabbed up by his arm and either brought to his parents or to the front desk where I would have them 'call' for his parents and his parents would get an earful from me. There is no way some kid should get away with that. Have you seen that child since with adults around him? I'd bring this to their attention immediately! Speaking to you disrespectfully like that was completely unacceptable and i understand you being upset about it.

Spring Break in Cancun = allow the partygoers to do what they want, and look the other way. Marriott's Order of Operations for Hell Week in Aruba.

 

[laurac260]

Well, apparently I'm late to the party, but once again, I am thoroughly disgusted that this thread is here, for how many years in a row??? I have complained two years in a row that the thread is called "Hell week". Last year the title was changed by the mods, but not this year apparently. Yes, we all know it exists, yes, we all know that the folks who don't have enough sense to steer clear of the place it dubbed it Hell Week, yes we all know that there are 6 pages of threads, once again, from folks who have nothing better to do with their time than post about it. And Yes, I'm sure posting about it HERE will change the world. After all, it has worked so well before, huh?

Whatever. My problem is, that a group of grownups can't seem to avoid a thread that evokes hate. Hate you ask? Well, look at the title.

I'd complain to the Mods AGAIN, but AGAIN I see they are here too, putting in their two cents. So I'm going to post here to express my utter DISGUST again, that we have this thread going, again. And, next, my thread will be deleted, and I will get one or two PM's from Mods telling me about proper "rules". Whatever. Ban me again, if you must. I'm embarrassed for a group that allows this stuff to continue, every year, like watching a train wreck and doing nothing about it.

Amazing. One disparaging comment about a certain president who's name starts with an O can get an entire thread shut down, but 6 pages of thinly veiled "Jew Bashing" can go on and on for 6+ pages, every year.

If you ask me, HELL WEEK has become the weeks that this boorish behavior is allowed to continue on this forum.

 

[VivianLynne]

Well, apparently I'm late to the party, but once again, I am thoroughly disgusted that this thread is here, for how many years in a row??? ......

I will not quote the remainder of your post, Laura.

What is your post about? That you think it is posters on TUG who are jerks or the moderators or both?

Sorry, but this post has NOT been about religion (as the mods have worked very hard to be sure it is a post about actions by others which interfere with a vacation others have booked at a well respected resort chain).

Readers of TUG change every year or two or three. Yes, there are "core" people who might remember ALL the prior years, but MOST guests and readers who find TUG are not that core group. I know I have NOT been reading TUG for exchanging into or buying a Marriott Vacation Club stay. I own at RCI resorts - not II.

As for the title using the "H, E, double LL" reference --- sorry, if you ever lived through such an experience, YOU might use that term yourself. I know, I have used that word to describe my 9 month stay at a state college - totally out of control place of robberies, attacks, hate crimes, sexual assaults -- so bad, the state CLOSED DOWN THAT COLLEGE within 20 years. Erasing its existence from all references to the well thought of university it was partnered with.

And if you are defending a major corporation who PROFITS from NOT enforcing a standard of reasonable personal behavior to ensure a vacation stay worthy of it "CORPORATE BRAND" --- I would ask, WHY (are you defending them)?

So, this thread is NOT to your personal likely? Disregard it then.

And to slam the moderators - who have been very involved to keep a calm and non-hateful stance on the posters - I think you are in error.

Respectfully,

 

[windje2000]

Well, apparently I'm late to the party, but once again, I am thoroughly disgusted that this thread is here, for how many years in a row??? I have complained two years in a row that the thread is called "Hell week". Last year the title was changed by the mods, but not this year apparently. Yes, we all know it exists, yes, we all know that the folks who don't have enough sense to steer clear of the place it dubbed it Hell Week, yes we all know that there are 6 pages of threads, once again, from folks who have nothing better to do with their time than post about it. And Yes, I'm sure posting about it HERE will change the world. After all, it has worked so well before, huh?

Whatever. My problem is, that a group of grownups can't seem to avoid a thread that evokes hate. Hate you ask? Well, look at the title.

I'd complain to the Mods AGAIN, but AGAIN I see they are here too, putting in their two cents. So I'm going to post here to express my utter DISGUST again, that we have this thread going, again. And, next, my thread will be deleted, and I will get one or two PM's from Mods telling me about proper "rules". Whatever. Ban me again, if you must. I'm embarrassed for a group that allows this stuff to continue, every year, like watching a train wreck and doing nothing about it.

Amazing. One disparaging comment about a certain president who's name starts with an O can get an entire thread shut down, but 6 pages of thinly veiled "Jew Bashing" can go on and on for 6+ pages, every year.

If you ask me, HELL WEEK has become the weeks that this boorish behavior is allowed to continue on this forum.

The only train wreck here is that Marriott allows the boorish behaviors of this group to affect the quiet enjoyment of the resort by its owners and guests, which most certainly affects the unsuspecting visitor.

If your view is that those knowledgeable about this problem at this resort should steer clear of it and shut up, I suggest you take your own advice - - - steer clear of this thread and shut up.

 

[laurac260]

Viv,

Respectfully, "hell week" refers to a "specific" group, traveling at a specific time, to this specific location.

A quick google search will show this.

History on this board shows that THIS thread title brings out the worst in some people. Yes, the mods have deleted THOSE posts. But, there is atleast 4 years of "history" already on this board. A quick search will show this. So why do we allow the hate to continue, year after year? Enough already.

 

[suzannesimon]

I agree with the Poster (quite a few posts ago) that said the best way to deal with the problem is with Tripadvisor. If you are actually there during the week(s) in question, put a detailed post on Tripadvisor. That is more likely to get Marriott's attention and possibly the attention of the offending group as well. I don't know if any of the problem guests are members of TUG or not, but a more public forum might get everyone's attention.

 

[SueDonJ]

Viv,

Respectfully, "hell week" refers to a "specific" group, traveling at a specific time, to this specific location.

A quick google search will show this.

History on this board shows that THIS thread title brings out the worst in some people. Yes, the mods have deleted THOSE posts. But, there is atleast 4 years of "history" already on this board. A quick search will show this. So why do we allow the hate to continue, year after year? Enough already.

Why we allow these reports is simple - because this specific problem at the Aruba Marriotts continues, year after year. I'm glad TUG is a place where folks can learn about it, glad that we mods make the effort to be sure it is adult behavior being exhibited in the threads, and glad that TUG Admin is in agreement that the topic is important enough that we should be able to discuss it respectfully.

"History on the topic" is hopefully what will eventually force some changes at the Marriott resorts in Aruba, and every year that the situation continues adds to that history.

A note - "Hell Week" is a term that was adopted from other websites when the topic was first addressed on TUG years ago. We tried last year to stop it but all that did was make more work for the mods - it didn't change the fact that the term is immediately recognized and not just on TUG. Just like allowing the use of the group's name, it simply doesn't appear to matter whether we use the term "Hell Week" or not.

 

[laurac260]

Look, I agree that I would be pissed if my vacation was ruined like that. And I would be even more pissed if a "particular group of people" ANY PARTICULAR group, felt they had a sense of entitlement to a particular week. (I'm not implying this is the case).

The problem here is two fold. #1, someone, at some point in time, dubbed THIS week, with THIS group as hell week, and #2, that this forum allows the thread to be created anew, every year. Search history on here. Look at how many comments have to be deleted. We have beat this dead horse, HERE ad nauseum, year after year. Why???

Enough already!

Just close the darn thread and stop letting folks open a thread that draws hateful speech toward a minority group already. Or, should we start a thread about traveling to SF DURING GAY PRIDE WEEK???

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree with the Poster (quite a few posts ago) that said the best way to deal with the problem is with Tripadvisor. If you are actually there during the week(s) in question, put a detailed post on Tripadvisor. That is more likely to get Marriott's attention and possibly the attention of the offending group as well. I don't know if any of the problem guests are members of TUG or not, but a more public forum might get everyone's attention.

It's been reported on TA and practically every other travel-related website for years. That's why I am so disgusted by Marriott's inaction - because there is NO WAY that they're not aware of the negative reputation attached to this event. The group's leaders as well - all they did when the topic exploded on different websites was inactivate their own website.

But I don't see, like you and others do, that it's useless to post about it on TUG unless the purpose is to force Marriott and the group leaders to do something to prevent this situation from negatively impacting other owners/guests. Nope. One good reason I've always wanted us to be able to post on TUG about it, is because posts here might prevent just one person from having his/her vacation ruined. That's enough for me - that we spread the word.

 

[SueDonJ]

I forgot you were the OP.



Don't forget, not everyone parents the same way, my daughter was 7yrs old when we went to Sheraton Broadway Plantation. I'm not a helicopter parent, I don't follow her around the whole trip, most of the time, when we were at the pool, i was relaxing in a chair while she was in the pool, lazy river and splash park 'unsupervised', making friends. She's 8yrs old now and we are going to Massanutten next month, odds are pretty good she'll be out skiing or snowboarding without me standing over her also. Now that doesn't mean i'm a horrible parent, i always made sure she knew 100% of the time where *I* was, but I don't think kids can be kids if their parents are always standing over their shoulders. We didn't grow up like that and we did just fine. Why would you treat a kid like a prison inmate that has to be followed around everywhere they go?



I don't know you, but i know what i would have done. That kid would have been grabbed up by his arm and either brought to his parents or to the front desk where I would have them 'call' for his parents and his parents would get an earful from me. There is no way some kid should get away with that. Have you seen that child since with adults around him? I'd bring this to their attention immediately! Speaking to you disrespectfully like that was completely unacceptable and i understand you being upset about it.

Honestly, what good does this type of bluster do?! You'd grab a kid by the arm and drag him around looking for his parents?! If you did that to my kid I'd have you arrested, and I'm not an obnoxious helicopter parent who thinks my kids can do no wrong!

Cripes. How you can think this would introduce helpful behavior into a bad situation is beyond me.

 

[SueDonJ]

Look, I agree that I would be pissed if my vacation was ruined like that. And I would be even more pissed if a "particular group of people" ANY PARTICULAR group, felt they had a sense of entitlement to a particular week. (I'm not implying this is the case).

The problem here is two fold. #1, someone, at some point in time, dubbed THIS week, with THIS group as hell week, and #2, that this forum allows the thread to be created anew, every year. Search history on here. Look at how many comments have to be deleted. We have beat this dead horse, HERE ad nauseum, year after year. Why???

Enough already!

Just close the darn thread and stop letting folks open a thread that draws hateful speech toward a minority group already. Or, should we start a thread about traveling to SF DURING GAY PRIDE WEEK???

Laura, the thread is staying open. The only posts that will be edited/removed are those that are not helpful, including yours.

If you're not satisfied with this, take your concerns to TUGBrian in a PM - he's stated his position here already.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Honestly, what good does this type of bluster do?! You'd grab a kid by the arm and drag him around looking for his parents?! If you did that to my kid I'd have you arrested, and I'm not an obnoxious helicopter parent who thinks my kids can do no wrong!.

Absolutely, i wouldn't hesitate!!! I would grab the kid by the arm and if he fought with me, he'd be dragged around by his neck instead of just by the arm. I'd expect ANYONE to do the same with my child(you touch my kid ANY other way then that and we will have issues)! There are many reasons to do this, you shame the kid and bring his actions out in the open for everyone around. You also are shaming his parents if they don't respond to it.

You would have (tried) to have me arrested? Are you kidding? This is a major problem with modern parenting. Sue(I don't think that post was by Don) what would YOUR parents have done if you acted that way? My parents weren't 'spankers' but if i was brought to them in this situation.....I wouldn't have done it again....Do you REALLY believe attempting to have an adult arrested is the BETTER response?

What i don't get, what do you guys think security could have done?

 

[SueDonJ]

Absolutely, i wouldn't hesitate!!! I would grab the kid by the arm and if he fought with me, he'd be dragged around by his neck instead of just by the arm. I'd expect ANYONE to do the same with my child(you touch my kid ANY other way then that and we will have issues)! There are many reasons to do this, you shame the kid and bring his actions out in the open for everyone around. You also are shaming his parents if they don't respond to it.

You would have (tried) to have me arrested? Are you kidding? This is a major problem with modern parenting. Sue(I don't think that post was by Don) what would YOUR parents have done if you acted that way? My parents weren't 'spankers' but if i was brought to them in this situation.....I wouldn't have done it again....Do you REALLY believe attempting to have an adult arrested is the BETTER response?

Not kidding. If somebody wants to come along and tell me my kids are being holy terrors, no problem, I'll believe there's a reason for it and deal with my kids my way. (And for the record, my kids had a nickname for me while they were growing up - "The General" - because I didn't let them get away with anything!)

But my choice was to deal with my kids without resorting to physical actions/punishments. You can bet that if I didn't grab my own kids' arms, no one else would have gotten away with it either.