Lies currently being told by Marriott sales staff

[jme]

Wow, this comment is the "Statement of the Century," and should cause Marriott Vacation Club Sales Leaders to stop in their tracks, and reassess how they do business and who they are, professionally and personally. But, I have no hope for that, as MVC continues to move some of the most deplorable people, of highly questionable character, to leadership positions in their organization.

To read, Marty (JME), one of the most loyal, enthusiastic MVC supporters that I know, present such an assessment of an MVC sales employee, and her deception, is a disgrace. But, Marty and others, don't kid yourself, this lady's leaders and leadership know exactly how this lady operates, they know all about her lies and deception, but, they benefit financially/profit from her lies and deception, and they likely consider her dishonesty, and behaviors (that one day will capture the Security and Exchange Commisssion's attention), "the cost of doing business."

I am reminded of how a Pimp makes sures that his/her prostitutes are fed and drugged-up, to do their job.

I believe she gets away with it because a scant few are somehow (unwittingly) convinced by her, and follow thru with a purchase. “Bottom line is what matters”….not integrity

 

[WBP]

I believe she gets away with it because a scant few are somehow (unwittingly) convinced by her, and follow thru with a purchase. “Bottom line is what matters”….not integrity

Marty, your comments should bring the leadership at MVC's Headquarters to a standstill, on Monday morning.

To see such a brand loyal, ardent supporter of MVC (you), tell the story that you have, and to think that you were preyed on (as a distinguished MVC Owner) by an MVC employee, is just disgraceful. I think MVC is entirely out of order; their lack of integrity and ethical behaviors and business conduct, and the extent to which MVC is willing to prey on, and compromise their owners, is just disgusting.

These people should be held accountable for that:

https://ir.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/corporate-governance/management

 

[claraj]

I believe she gets away with it because a scant few are somehow (unwittingly) convinced by her, and follow thru with a purchase. “Bottom line is what matters”….not integrity

I got a taste of this at my last meeting at CS when they tried to sell me a few thousand more points with financing (which I would never opt for) and when I started to say "thanks, but no thanks" (I remembered she said at the beginning I could give a simple 'no' after her presentation) she asked "how is $200+ a month going to impact your life, you have more money than me." That kind of did it for me. Even if it was a true statement, I was appalled they would make such a statement to try and manipulate you into making a sale.

 

[ChiefIlliniwek]

The last few presentations at Vistana Villages have been pretty nasty. Last September I got offered points when staying at Cypress Harbor to attend a presentation at Vistana Villages. At the end of the presentation the saleswoman flung the door open and said something like "this is over!" She was very insulting. So was the salesman I had with Hilton over at Parc Soleil last year. I'm starting to find all of it amusing. Just last week I did another presentation at Parc Soleil, and the salesman started off by talking about caring for his 104-year-old mom. Great fun. As long as they get their sales pitch over in an hour or so, I don't care what they say.

 

[grrrah]

What's this new claim that Club Points purchased resale even when paying junk fees cannot see all trust inventory at new properties (like Westins and any new purchases going forward)? Resales points can only see inventory when a week owner, like Westin, chooses to elect Club Points for their week.

That's a lie stretched from their usual stretched truth to get weeks owners to buy points so they can see the full inventory. Club points are club points and can see all inventory now. Hard to believe that someone that owns trust points can't have access to the trust

Legally they could separate inventory pots between points trust and deposited weeks, but IF they separate the inventory, almost all of the valuable dedicated weeks (Like Westins in Maui) would not be deposited by their owners, and that would ruin the attractiveness to both sides and would probably kill their program.

 

[wuv pooh]

My condolences---it shouldn't be that way.
Sounds like the same lady we had this past February at MGO....(btw, we only went for the incentives).....but she was so awful repeating previously debunked "phrases and facts"
(aka "lies") that for the very first time in our 25 year ownership we are considering never doing it again "despite the sometimes usable gifts".
Her tack was the old disproven advice that we could buy trust points which were going to super-charge our enrolled points.
That didn't last long because I flat-out smiled and said "oh please, that's an old one, and you KNOW it's not the case".
She kept repeatedly patting herself on the back so much, and touting her many accomplishments with "high-end clients", and extolling the advantages of doing things her way,
that we just got truly sick of her spiel and exited quicker than usual. I had stopped her a couple of times and called her bluff on some of the statements,
and when she tried to explain, it only blew wide open that she was bending the truth with out & out lies.
She finally realized that we were more well-schooled than she thought, and experienced to boot,
so she had to wind it down quickly or be thoroughly embarrassed more. She finally had no more comebacks because she was obviously spinning, bobbing, and weaving.
Not exactly a complimentary set of tactics when she was supposedly "one of the best".
She said she usually only "presented" to the highest percentile of owners with the most superior portfolios....
if so, why was she "fast-talking" and telling untruths and moving on so quickly?
Definitely not impressed.

Think I had the same woman in February. The best, knew the most, etc. Her pitch was buy more points because Abound was here and you couldn't get the new resorts with your current stuff. After we estalished that was incorrect her next pitch was that there were big changes in non Marriott usage and I should buy more points to do cruises and rent houses. She tried to tell me a Viking cruise cost $20k cash and got upset when I looked up a suite at $9k for a week. Said I could not get DVC through II and I was doing it wrong. She showed me points cost on the computer for cruises and tours that looked great and I was very excited because she said this was a big change. Turns out it was single occupancy, so the cost was double and the same as always. Was so upset at the lies and exaggerations that I actually called her manager the next day to get her some more training. Hopefully it at least gets put in her file, but I have my doubts.

 

[WBP]

Think I had the same woman in February. The best, knew the most, etc. Her pitch was buy more points because Abound was here and you couldn't get the new resorts with your current stuff. After we estalished that was incorrect her next pitch was that there were big changes in non Marriott usage and I should buy more points to do cruises and rent houses. She tried to tell me a Viking cruise cost $20k cash and got upset when I looked up a suite at $9k for a week. Said I could not get DVC through II and I was doing it wrong. She showed me points cost on the computer for cruises and tours that looked great and I was very excited because she said this was a big change. Turns out it was single occupancy, so the cost was double and the same as always. Was so upset at the lies and exaggerations that I actually called her manager the next day to get her some more training. Hopefully it at least gets put in her file, but I have my doubts.

Put in her file?

That's funny.

How about she's been promoted to Director of Sales, or Director of Business Integrity and Corporate Compliance. I've seen that very play before.

My mother used to say, in the context of companies moving bad employees from one place to another, "you don't move dirty laundry from one laundromat to another." I wonder if MVC has diversified their portfolio to include laundromats; if so, I assume MVC has a robust supply of employees to staff their laundromats.

 

[SunandFun83]

I am at Surf Watch in Hilton Head Island and have attended a sales presentation. Our first in a few years. We are Chairman’s level in MVC. It is incredible to me that the sales staff cannot seem to stick to the truth. Our salesman stated that resale points in the MVC system, if bought on the after market, would never count towards status in the MVC system, regardless of whether one pays the repatriation fees or not. As I read the rules, I think that this is simply a lie, but if I am wrong, please respond and let me know.

I went to a timeshare sales presentation and the lying SOB told me something that was not true in order to manipulate me into buying timeshare points. Nah! That has never happened to anyone, ever.

I read on timeshare groups on Facebook that "The timeshare ADVISOR told me. blah, blah, blah, so that must be true"

 

[JMSH]

I know it's pervasive in the industry, but does it bother anyone that the company we've hitched our wagons to tells lies for money?

LOL......I know one former leader of the free world that has made a full blown industry out of this type thing. Sorry about that but I could not resist.

 

[pedro47]

I just wish when you become seventy years old or older, you would not be asked to attend a sales presentation or an owner update. IMHO

 

[dioxide45]

I heard several whoppers at a presentation today. By October, points will cost $19 per point because three new properties will be added to Abound. Those are; Harborside, Westin Riverfront and get this. Marriott Grande Residences Mayfair London. The price always goes up when they add new properties. I indicated the price goes up several times a year even when there are no new properties... Chairman's will be going to 20,000 points but you will get early checkin and late checkout. Destination Escapes are great (there are currently only two resorts available for September). StarOptions for Vistana owners will be going away. I am sure there are a few I forgot.

 

[DRH90277]

I heard several whoppers at a presentation today. By October, points will cost $19 per point because three new properties will be added to Abound. Those are; Harborside, Westin Riverfront and get this. Marriott Grande Residences Mayfair London. The price always goes up when they add new properties. I indicated the price goes up several times a year even when there are no new properties... Chairman's will be going to 20,000 points but you will get early checkin and late checkout. Destination Escapes are great (there are currently only two resorts available for September). StarOptions for Vistana owners will be going away. I am sure there are a few I forgot.

$19 per point will certainly help their revenues "if they can get it." A gentle nudge toward improving the value proposition for their customers might help more.

 

[RookWDW]

Is there a list that shows what all is actually in the "trust" versus what is in the exchange point / weeks system? I know that in reality the become one and the same. But ... I wonder if eventually they will keep properties that are in the trust only available to trust points owners. Sort of similar to what DVC is slowing starting to implement to show some benefits to buying direct vs resale. From what I understand, there isn't a lot in the trust, mostly the Pluse properties and some left over weeks that were converted in 2010, so this likely would not work until they added on enough or ROFR enough to build up the trust inventory.

 

[dioxide45]

Is there a list that shows what all is actually in the "trust" versus what is in the exchange point / weeks system? I know that in reality the become one and the same. But ... I wonder if eventually they will keep properties that are in the trust only available to trust points owners. Sort of similar to what DVC is slowing starting to implement to show some benefits to buying direct vs resale. From what I understand, there isn't a lot in the trust, mostly the Pluse properties and some left over weeks that were converted in 2010, so this likely would not work until they added on enough or ROFR enough to build up the trust inventory.

I maintained a list through about 2015, but it was too much work. I am sure Marriott has a list of what they own in the trust, but they would consider that proprietary and wouldn't share with us. They may at some point keep trust inventory available for only trust bookings at some point in time, but right now they need weeks based inventory to fulfil trust based reservation requests. So trust inventory would make its way into the MVC Exchange Company anyway. We were told at that same presentation that when they first rolled out DC that 80% of the system was enrolled weeks and 20% was trust, well now it has flipped where 80% is trust and 20% is weeks. More lies. I think that the sales people really beleive this stuff though. They are just as gullible as they think some of their owners are.

 

[Dean]

Is there a list that shows what all is actually in the "trust" versus what is in the exchange point / weeks system? I know that in reality the become one and the same. But ... I wonder if eventually they will keep properties that are in the trust only available to trust points owners. Sort of similar to what DVC is slowing starting to implement to show some benefits to buying direct vs resale. From what I understand, there isn't a lot in the trust, mostly the Pluse properties and some left over weeks that were converted in 2010, so this likely would not work until they added on enough or ROFR enough to build up the trust inventory.

We do know that many resorts cannot be in the trust, basically non US resorts. There's also the Asia Pacific Points system. I don't see any chance of the system excluding new resorts. For DVC it only applies to non qualified resale owners and everyone who has access to the Points system for MVC is qualified. What could happen is that resorts could leave the system in some situations and one would lose access that way.

 

[DRH90277]

Is there a list that shows what all is actually in the "trust" versus what is in the exchange point / weeks system? I know that in reality the become one and the same. But ... I wonder if eventually they will keep properties that are in the trust only available to trust points owners. Sort of similar to what DVC is slowing starting to implement to show some benefits to buying direct vs resale. From what I understand, there isn't a lot in the trust, mostly the Pluse properties and some left over weeks that were converted in 2010, so this likely would not work until they added on enough or ROFR enough to build up the trust inventory.

They are selling a mirage. The mirage is an undisclosed listing of the weeks owned by the trust coupled with reliance on my deposits of weeks (for points) to fill reservation requests. The Abounds points program to me is merely a reseller of reservations they hope to obtain from others. Disclosure of the sources of point reservations as between the sources (Trust owned versus deposited weeks) should be mandatory.

How much are you willing to pay for this?

 

[bazzap]

Is there a list that shows what all is actually in the "trust" versus what is in the exchange point / weeks system? I know that in reality the become one and the same. But ... I wonder if eventually they will keep properties that are in the trust only available to trust points owners. Sort of similar to what DVC is slowing starting to implement to show some benefits to buying direct vs resale. From what I understand, there isn't a lot in the trust, mostly the Pluse properties and some left over weeks that were converted in 2010, so this likely would not work until they added on enough or ROFR enough to build up the trust inventory.

If ever MVC were to keep properties that are in the trust only available to trust point owners, then most enrolled weeks (non trust points) owners would stop electing their weeks for points, which would be self defeating for MVC.
So that will never happen.

 

[DRH90277]

If ever MVC were to keep properties that are in the trust only available to trust point owners, then most enrolled weeks (non trust points) owners would stop electing their weeks for points, which would be self defeating for MVC.
So that will never happen.

I agree and think it is even worse than that. Because of the difficulty in getting my reservations with points even at Chairmans Club level, I'm holding back week deposits for points. No owned week deposits for points results in even less reservations available for the Abound points program.

For example, notice the many great owned Hilton Head weeks posted for rent on Redweek, many of these could have been deposited to support the Abound points program.

 

[dioxide45]

I agree and think it is even worse than that. Because of the difficulty in getting my reservations with points even at Chairmans Club level, I'm holding back week deposits for points. No owned week deposits for points, even less reservations available for the Abound points program.

For example, notice the many great owned Hilton Head weeks posted for rent on Redweek, many of these could have been deposited to support the Abound points program.

I was told at our sales presentation yesterday that Chairman's Club level has a priority for inventory, then next level priority was Presidential. That was another lie...

 

[catbro]

Attended a presentation at Surf Watch 2 summers ago. Very pushy and lying sales person. We have a single deeded week enrolled. Told us we would never be able to book Westin or other TS properties with only a deeded week. Tried to sell us on posting our week on vacation candy and lots of smoke and mirrors. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

 

[dioxide45]

Attended a presentation at Surf Watch 2 summers ago. Very pushy and lying sales person. We have a single deeded week enrolled. Told us we would never be able to book Westin or other TS properties with only a deeded week. Tried to sell us on posting our week on vacation candy and lots of smoke and mirrors. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

Now you can't wait to go back so you can tell them they were lying. We were told once that they would never let "Interval folk" into Lakeshore Reserve. I wish I could have another presentation to that guy just so I could tell him about all the stays we have had there using II.

 

[winger]

Now you can't wait to go back so you can tell them they were lying. We were told once that they would never let "Interval folk" into Lakeshore Reserve. I wish I could have another presentation to that guy just so I could tell him about all the stays we have had there using II.

When I attended an 'update' recently, while in the waiting room, I saw a rep (passing by with another couple) we met with from about two years ago who at the time emphatically stated that Marriott will no longer be traded through II starting at the end of that year. I should have flagged him down and mentioned this is the third time (or second?) I've exchanged into his fine resort through II since we last spoke. We also now have another exchange back for next summer.

 

[Retired2025 aka AlmostRetired]

I separate MVCI’s selling of points and the management/running of the product.

Selling - The price of a point has nothing to do with the underlying value of the trust. The price of a point is based on the underlying value of the trust, SG&A (selling, general and administration expense) of the sales organization plus the profit that needs to get delivered to the company. The incentives to attend a presentation falls under SG&A. To get the price per point, sales has to justify the price by presenting the value a customer gets from the points at the price. When a sales person can’t, two things happen. With new customers, when he/she can’t, exaggeration and lying is required. With existing customers you add FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) because they have a better idea of value. I am 100% certain management in the sales organization knows what is being done and supports it. It is part of their playbook. It is too wide spread to not be part of the playbook. BTW, I am not saying all sales people behave this way, only the ones that can’t sell by truthfully representing the vacation value. You can figure out by your own experience on what percent falls under the truthful category.

Having managed many different sales teams in a large technology company that was depended on customer relationship and selling value because of price, everyone learned how to sell value. Lying to a customer was cause for immediate dismissal. I have always been amazed that MVCI allows lying and customers accept it. I stopped going to sales presentations but when I did, I did so only for the incentive. I made a personal game at getting out before 90 minutes. I guess I was being dishonest also (not a judgement for anyone else).

I think most people are happy with the management of the product. I know I am.

 

[Fasttr]

I separate MVCI’s selling of points and the management/running of the product.

Selling - The price of a point has nothing to do with the underlying value of the trust. The price of a point is based on the underlying value of the trust, SG&A (selling, general and administration expense) of the sales organization plus the profit that needs to get delivered to the company. The incentives to attend a presentation falls under SG&A. To get the price per point, sales has to justify the price by presenting the value a customer gets from the points at the price. When a sales person can’t, two things happen. With new customers, when he/she can’t, exaggeration and lying is required. With existing customers you add FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) because they have a better idea of value. I am 100% certain management in the sales organization knows what is being done and supports it. It is part of their playbook. It is too wide spread to not be part of the playbook. BTW, I am not saying all sales people behave this way, only the ones that can’t sell by truthfully representing the vacation value. You can figure out by your own experience on what percent falls under the truthful category.

Having managed many different sales teams in a large technology company that was depended on customer relationship and selling value because of price, everyone learned how to sell value. Lying to a customer was cause for immediate dismissal. I have always been amazed that MVCI allows lying and customers accept it. I stopped going to sales presentations but when I did, I did so only for the incentive. I made a personal game at getting out before 90 minutes. I guess I was being dishonest also (not a judgement for anyone else).

I think most people are happy with the management of the product. I know I am.

Agree with this...although on the management of the product side, I would like to see a bit more effort placed into the user website experience.

 

[WBP]

I separate MVCI’s selling of points and the management/running of the product.

Selling - The price of a point has nothing to do with the underlying value of the trust. The price of a point is based on the underlying value of the trust, SG&A (selling, general and administration expense) of the sales organization plus the profit that needs to get delivered to the company. The incentives to attend a presentation falls under SG&A. To get the price per point, sales has to justify the price by presenting the value a customer gets from the points at the price. When a sales person can’t, two things happen. With new customers, when he/she can’t, exaggeration and lying is required. With existing customers you add FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) because they have a better idea of value. I am 100% certain management in the sales organization knows what is being done and supports it. It is part of their playbook. It is too wide spread to not be part of the playbook. BTW, I am not saying all sales people behave this way, only the ones that can’t sell by truthfully representing the vacation value. You can figure out by your own experience on what percent falls under the truthful category.

Having managed many different sales teams in a large technology company that was depended on customer relationship and selling value because of price, everyone learned how to sell value. Lying to a customer was cause for immediate dismissal. I have always been amazed that MVCI allows lying and customers accept it. I stopped going to sales presentations but when I did, I did so only for the incentive. I made a personal game at getting out before 90 minutes. I guess I was being dishonest also (not a judgement for anyone else).

I think most people are happy with the management of the product. I know I am.

Very well stated, thank you!

I agree with all of your points. In our case, our on-site MVC resort experiences are often superb. I, personally, find that the MVC resorts that are managed by General Managers who come from Marriott (hotel company) lodging (hotel) division, FULL SERVICE Marriott hotels and resorts, are the most capable and skilled of MVC General Managers. In our experience, the MVC General Managers who do not have this pedigree, do not cut the mustard. The same is true for the MVC resorts that have effective, engaged HOA Boards of Directors. I remember, for years, Cypress Harbour had a fabulous GM, and a fabulous HOA Board of Directors. The same is true for Desert Springs Villas (Susan Belleville and Jane Berg, former DSV GM’s will forever be remembered for their contributions and leadership as GM’s of DSV).

In my opinion, MVC falls far short, when it comes to MVC Owner Services, and MVC's web, telephone and App technology. MVC Owner Services, in my opinion, has years of highly inconsistent service, that is more often than not, deplorable service. I blame that on MVC's leadership. Similarly, the antics of MVC's Sales and Marketing division, in my opinion, are disgraceful. You can be sure that MVC's senior-most leadership are well aware of the horrific, bully, deceptive, illegal tactics of these monsters, and does nothing about it, other than condone the culture, behavior, and antics.

In the context of MVC's Sales and Marketing, I've learned to fight back. I have a zero tolerance for their antics and culture, and I deploy every opportunity I have to make certain that MVC is impacted by our dissatisfaction with the horrific culture and deception in MVC's sales and marketing department. In my opinion, the fact that Marriott International (parent company) allows MVC, their "Franchisee," to operate as they do, is just disgraceful.