Lies currently being told by Marriott sales staff

[dougp26364]

Agreed. I have received a fair return on my investments in this area, but it has not been a monetary return.

If maintenance fees continue to increase as they have this year, I may need to reevaluate the feasibility of continuing to support the investment.

I have had the same thought, and then I look at hotel room rates. They’re are ridiculous themselves. One night in a decent hotel in a popular tourist destination runs around $200 to $300/night. That’s not even ocean front, mountain top or near all the entertainment. Granted $200/night is less for a week than what I pay in MF’s, but it’s a hotel room, not a condo.

 

[pedro47]

I have had the same thought, and then I look at hotel room rates. They’re are ridiculous themselves. One night in a decent hotel in a popular tourist destination runs around $200 to $300/night. That’s not even ocean front, mountain top or near all the entertainment. Granted $200/night is less for a week than what I pay in MF’s, but it’s a hotel room, not a condo.

A nice hotel room in Fort Lauderdale, Fl during cruising season is now averaging $250.00 and $350.00 per night, before taxes. A bedroom , a bathroom, and maybe a small balcony.

 

[jmhpsu93]

Had a sales presentation on Saturday at Oceana Palms - pretty low key as he knew within five minutes we weren't buying.

Mentioned that Interval inventory will be lower than in the past (true considering the pandemic glut) and that I'd better off exercising my weeks for points vs. trading. Not really a total lie but a bit of an exaggeration. He then got really confused on what we own and how we own it and said something to the effect of our Chairman's status being at risk if Marriott decides to not include our enrolled weeks in the status calculation and I gave him a polite but firm response to that as "you will have thousands of owners divesting in your product if MVC does that" and he backed off.

We do have a pretty complex portfolio of trust points (direct purchased and resale), 3 unenrolled resale weeks, and 3 enrolled resale weeks.

We did discuss renting strategies for a while and he told me not to worry about the name request thing - there's no way MVC is going to limit individual renters offsetting their MFs with rental stays reserved with points.

Out a little before 90 minutes but enjoyed our time with him, especially with the lousy weather we had last week in south Florida. $275 in gift cards for our time.

 

[dioxide45]

Had a sales presentation on Saturday at Oceana Palms - pretty low key as he knew within five minutes we weren't buying.

Mentioned that Interval inventory will be lower than in the past (true considering the pandemic glut) and that I'd better off exercising my weeks for points vs. trading. Not really a total lie but a bit of an exaggeration. He then got really confused on what we own and how we own it and said something to the effect of our Chairman's status being at risk if Marriott decides to not include our enrolled weeks in the status calculation and I gave him a polite but firm response to that as "you will have thousands of owners divesting in your product if MVC does that" and he backed off.

We do have a pretty complex portfolio of trust points (direct purchased and resale), 3 unenrolled resale weeks, and 3 enrolled resale weeks.

We did discuss renting strategies for a while and he told me not to worry about the name request thing - there's no way MVC is going to limit individual renters offsetting their MFs with rental stays reserved with points.

Out a little before 90 minutes but enjoyed our time with him, especially with the lousy weather we had last week in south Florida. $275 in gift cards for our time.

Strange how many different lies the same sales office can dream up. We had a presentation there two weeks ago and the deal was that we should trade in our deeded Florida weeks for Trust points because maintenance fees in Florida will be $4,000-$5,000 in 2025.

 

[cubigbird]

Strange how many different lies the same sales office can dream up. We had a presentation there two weeks ago and the deal was that we should trade in our deeded Florida weeks for Trust points because maintenance fees in Florida will be $4,000-$5,000 in 2025.

That is probably true, but they also probably neglected to say that the trust points fees would be higher than that.

 

[dioxide45]

That is probably true, but they also probably neglected to say that the trust points fees would be higher than that.

Well. I challenged on that and they said it wouldn't be as bad because trust points are the average. I still doubt the $5000 in fees and also questioned why Marriott would be taking so many of these weeks back in (as trade ins) when fees would go so high.

 

[dougp26364]

Strange how many different lies the same sales office can dream up. We had a presentation there two weeks ago and the deal was that we should trade in our deeded Florida weeks for Trust points because maintenance fees in Florida will be $4,000-$5,000 in 2025.

And ours, with. Chairman level only sales rep, was trying to convince us there was an animal called “BonVoy Cash Points” and that benefit would be unlocked if we bought as little as another 3,000 trust points. Those special points would be worth between 35 cents and 75 cents per point. I’m well aware that BonVoy points are worth less than 1 cent per point on average. His own math made it look like such a horrible seal for Marriott a person would have to have been drinking all morning to believe them.

 

[Superchief]

I actually think there will be an increase in II exchange availability in gold and silver seasons due the significant increase in MF's. The cost per point for many of these weeks are now higher than for trust points. I have two resorts that I will no longer redeem for points due to their reduced values and the fact they are lockoffs so I can get two for one.

 

[dougp26364]

I actually think there will be an increase in II exchange availability in gold and silver seasons due the significant increase in MF's. The cost per point for many of these weeks are now higher than for trust points. I have two resorts that I will no longer redeem for points due to their reduced values and the fact they are lockoffs so I can get two for one.

You’re assuming a lot of owners pay attention to that metric. Unfortunately I believe the vast majority isn’t as tuned in as TUG members.

 

[dioxide45]

You’re assuming a lot of owners pay attention to that metric. Unfortunately I believe the vast majority isn’t as tuned in as TUG members.

For as long as the DC program has been around, it has almost always been a better use of a lock off week through II than to elect club points. I am sure there are a few exceptions, but our travel seems to indicate we do way better without lock off weeks in II than if we would have been electing them for points.

 

[dougp26364]

For as long as the DC program has been around, it has almost always been a better use of a lock off week through II than to elect club points. I am sure there are a few exceptions, but our travel seems to indicate we do way better without lock off weeks in II than if we would have been electing them for points.

While this is true, travel preferences have changed. People use to complain about being locked into a 7 night stay starting on specified days of the week, most commonly Sat and Sun with Friday being an option at a few resorts. We choose to utilize points reservations for the flexibility of choosing the check in day (any day of the week), view and length of stay.

I was pointing out that many timeshare owners that aren’t around TUG aren’t likely to bother to figure out whether or not their MF/point ratio is good or bad. For that matter I’m not convinced the majority of timeshare owners have figured out it’s a better financial deal to utilize the weeks trading metric vs exchanging to points when it comes to getting the most bang for their buck

 

[Bodie]

Does anyone know how many additional people were folded in with Vistana? In the past, I could look three to four months out for a property in the Caribbean - Feb-May timeframe - and generally get something. Even with the addition of Sheraton/Westin, it's been near impossible. Is it too many chasing too little, now? Anyone else having the same experience? We have the 13 month window of opportunity, but I never plan that far ahead.

 

[davidvel]

Does anyone know how many additional people were folded in with Vistana? In the past, I could look three to four months out for a property in the Caribbean - Feb-May timeframe - and generally get something. Even with the addition of Sheraton/Westin, it's been near impossible. Is it too many chasing too little, now? Anyone else having the same experience? We have the 13 month window of opportunity, but I never plan that far ahead.

Can't people only chase if they have antied-up for the game? I understand that people's buy in may be a mud week and they all want a beach front week, but this depends on what is exchanged, not on how many people are playing.

Salespeople have said this about II for a long time now, "Owners will elect for points and not deposit to II so II inventory will dry up and you need to buy points to go anywhere." But you can only ask for an exchange (a drink) if you deposit, so those that don't deposit won't be looking for an exchange (a drink.)

 

[Hindsite]

Does anyone know how many additional people were folded in with Vistana?

Its in the MVW investor presentations somewhere if you want to check. If I recall its around 200k vs MVC/Abound 400k, so a big jump in numbers. How many actually use Abound is what really matters, just the same as for MVC weeks owners electing. I'd look to other reasons such as owner rentals or demand for peak times being the driver of the issue you identify.

 

[dougp26364]

Can't people only chase if they have antied-up for the game? I understand that people's buy in may be a mud week and they all want a beach front week, but this depends on what is exchanged, not on how many people are playing.

Salespeople have said this about II for a long time now, "Owners will elect for points and not deposit to II so II inventory will dry up and you need to buy points to go anywhere." But you can only ask for an exchange (a drink) if you deposit, so those that don't deposit won't be looking for an exchange (a drink.)

I’ve heard this story from day one of any points based system dating back to the old Sunterra days (pre-DRI). So far experience has proven this out as a false narrative.

What I have noticed is a decline in instant exchange opportunities at certain resorts or destinations we frequent. However, that decline has also coincided with those particular resorts either selling our or being nearly sold out. One example is Grand Lodge on Peak 7. When it was in developement, getting an instant exchange thru II was pretty easy. Now that it’s reached the “sold out” phase, instant exchanges are much harder to come by. This isn’t a true points based resort. It is a weeks based resort with a weak points overlay system where an owner can deposit their week for points, then book individual nights at the 6 month mark using those points at their home resort (maybe all three BGV resorts in Breck, I’m not 100% certain).

I think the distinction isn’t so much weeks vs points as it is a lack of new builds for timeshares. For the past decade there’s been very few new resorts being developed. Most of what’s been done as far as sales is what I call churning current owners by reselling them what they already own.

 

[Hindsite]

I’ve heard this story from day one of any points based system dating back to the old Sunterra days (pre-DRI).

Same for MVC when they initiated the destinations club points system in 2010, and before that if I recall correctly. It sprouted again when MVW bought II with a slightly different twist that MVW were going to take all the good inventory from II and put it int he points system. Until I actually have a problem getting great value from II its irrelevant and just more sale rubbish. Funnily enough, when they only have points to sell and you say you don't need them as you do great with II, their sales spin is to trash II. Its all about the salesperson getting their commission and they adapt their story to achieve that.

I suspect there is some attrition of inventory from weeks to points systems as developers get weeks returned to them, turn them into points (where they can) and then sell the points. To counter that, there is a relatively healthy resale weeks market where people understand the value of owning where they want to go, renting out or using II to exchange. I suspect the rate of attrition is such that I've got another 30 years or so of using II successfully and that will probably outlive me

 

[davidvel]

Same for MVC when they initiated the destinations club points system in 2010, and before that if I recall correctly. It sprouted again when MVW bought II with a slightly different twist that MVW were going to take all the good inventory from II and put it int he points system. Until I actually have a problem getting great value from II its irrelevant and just more sale rubbish. Funnily enough, when they only have points to sell and you say you don't need them as you do great with II, their sales spin is to trash II. Its all about the salesperson getting their commission and they adapt their story to achieve that.

I suspect there is some attrition of inventory from weeks to points systems as developers get weeks returned to them, turn them into points (where they can) and then sell the points. To counter that, there is a relatively healthy resale weeks market where people understand the value of owning where they want to go, renting out or using II to exchange. I suspect the rate of attrition is such that I've got another 30 years or so of using II successfully and that will probably outlive me

But if those weeks aren't being put in II that is one less exchange request for each week removed. It is all a wash and no harder to get a week. Yes, if the overall pool gets to be tiny one day, then that would be different.

 

[Hindsite]

But

What in my comment does your But refer to?

 

[davidvel]

What in my comment does your But refer to?

"I suspect there is some attrition of inventory from weeks to points systems as developers get weeks returned to them, turn them into points (where they can) and then sell the points. To counter that, there is a relatively healthy resale weeks market where people understand the value of owning where they want to go, renting out or using II to exchange. I suspect the rate of attrition is such that I've got another 30 years or so of using II successfully and that will probably outlive me."

 

[Hindsite]

It is all a wash and no harder to get a week.

There are sufficient leakage points across the networks, both in and out, for it not to be as simple as a 1 in 1 out.

 

[davidvel]

There are sufficient leakage points across the networks, both in and out, for it not to be as simple as a 1 in 1 out.

I agree, but we are talking about a claim that entire swaths of weeks not deposited by owners leads to a lack of weeks to trade into. I doubt anyone is allowed to take a week without ever depositing one. To the contrary, my guess is the opposite is true more often: people deposit weeks and never find something suitable, or just let the deposit lapse.

 

[Red elephant]

I agree, but we are talking about a claim that entire swaths of weeks not deposited by owners leads to a lack of weeks to trade into. I doubt anyone is allowed to take a week without ever depositing one. To the contrary, my guess is the opposite is true more often: people deposit weeks and never find something suitable, or just let the deposit lapse.

Does anyone really know the percentage of owners who exchange their weeks for points? Then you have owners who rent their weeks. If this has exponentially increased then interval availability would decrease as well especially with those prime weeks that everyone wants to trade into. After reading all these Tug posts as a new Marriott owner I chose to purchase resale at a resort I wanted to go to annually instead of exchanging . I purchased resale MGC to exchange into lakeshore reserve as their MF was just too high and HHI during shoulder season. I have actually done much better with abound points with my Vistana units. Maybe just luck.

 

[Eric B]

I agree, but we are talking about a claim that entire swaths of weeks not deposited by owners leads to a lack of weeks to trade into. I doubt anyone is allowed to take a week without ever depositing one. To the contrary, my guess is the opposite is true more often: people deposit weeks and never find something suitable, or just let the deposit lapse.

No doubt true wrt the letting deposits lapse - I've done that a couple of times. On the other hand, there are the random accommodation certificates that allow someone to take a week in II without depositing one and there are significant bulk developer deposits that make things even out in the long run. The latter might be more consequential but we should probably recognize that all developers have an incentive to get exchangers into the resorts to run them through sales presentations - that alone leads me to believe that availability in exchange systems of all sorts will never entirely wane.

 

[jellen613]

The biggest untrue that was told by all timeshare sale staff years ago; was that timeshare was an investment.

not just years ago, even last year they were still saying that to us......That being said, I never have thought of it as a financial investment. I have been pleased with all of my vacations. So I am not grumbling about this, I just think it is laughable because the sales people clearly have said purchasing more points would be a "financial" investment.

 

[Quilter]

Had a sales presentation on Saturday at Oceana Palms - pretty low key as he knew within five minutes we weren't buying.

Mentioned that Interval inventory will be lower than in the past (true considering the pandemic glut) and that I'd better off exercising my weeks for points vs. trading. Not really a total lie but a bit of an exaggeration. He then got really confused on what we own and how we own it and said something to the effect of our Chairman's status being at risk if Marriott decides to not include our enrolled weeks in the status calculation and I gave him a polite but firm response to that as "you will have thousands of owners divesting in your product if MVC does that" and he backed off.

We do have a pretty complex portfolio of trust points (direct purchased and resale), 3 unenrolled resale weeks, and 3 enrolled resale weeks.

We did discuss renting strategies for a while and he told me not to worry about the name request thing - there's no way MVC is going to limit individual renters offsetting their MFs with rental stays reserved with points.

Out a little before 90 minutes but enjoyed our time with him, especially with the lousy weather we had last week in south Florida. $275 in gift cards for our time.

Been away from the forums for a while. I've looked through 3 pages of posts headings and can't find the thread that had in-depth discussion of the "name request thing". Can someone lead me to it?