John Oliver’s take on Timeshares

[dioxide45]

I think many timeshares could be sold on the merits--and for the prices they sell for now. If the prevailing rental rate is such that owning still makes sense when accounting for it properly, then owning still makes sense. Note that "prevailing" means going to that company's web site and finding a rental. It does not mean scouring the back alleys of RedWeek for Joe who has the perfect deal for me. Most regular people will not put up with that nonsense. (And no, TUGgers are not regular people in this sense, but there are many more of them than there are of us.)

The problem is, it's easier to sell by lying, and there are no penalties for doing it that way. Since this is a volume business all the way down, guess what happens?

Over the years, timeshare companies went away from doing presentations based on time value and how you save over renting. In the past, we were often pushed lots of numbers and adding up all the fees over time and how it actually came out ahead of renting. They don't do that anymore. The cost to buy in and annual maintenance fees has increased so significantly that the numbers no longer make sense.

 

[HuskerATL]

The cost to buy in and annual maintenance fees has increased so significantly that the numbers no longer

If you buy retail and then pay MFs, it would be many years before you break even....and if you compare to ad hoc renting from other TS owners, vacation packages, specialty vacation clubs like the Heros or Armed Forces clubs, etc., you may never break even.

 

[TUGBrian]

When a new resort opens -- let's say in Aspen, to compete with the Hyatt -- where are the initial resale weeks?

That's my point.

dodge only producing 100 srt ghoul chargers, and they are already sold out.

doesnt mean every other potential car buyer shouldnt consider a pre-owned camry...or not realize thats an option when you cant buy the limited edition brand new charger!

 

[TUGBrian]

on this very subject, yall are going to love this weeks talking timeshare episode on "the first thing you should do after buying a new timeshare"

=)

yes, it goes exactly how youd imagine it would!

I also totally expect 3.4 million views in a week like the john oliver video, so yall get your mouse clickers ready!

 

[sail27bill]

I love JO but I was a little disappointed in his timeshare segment. It was more horror stories than balanced. I wish he had emphasized Redweek/Tug/brokers for resale properties and sent them to Tug for insight and knowledge. That would have been a great service to those watching who had already purchased a timeshare and needed help with how to use it or get rid of it.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

What has changed is that MVC and Vistana (and possibly Hyatt) are not really building new properties.so this maxim no longer applies.

They are now recycling the old ones into trusts and selling points.

 

[ScoopKona]

Yes, it's possible. But it's highly unlikely, and as you wrote at the end, there's no penalties for the current sales method.

People seem to forget I sold timeshares in Key West for years. I gave restaurant and attraction advice to people instead of a tour because I could wrap the entire thing up in 30 minutes. That's all I needed. Either the light went on after 30 minutes, or the light went on but they couldn't afford it, or they were dumb-asses.

My typical tour was a couple who flew down in their own plane and were staying at the Hyatt hotel. I knew how much they were paying to stay in Key West. And I knew how often they visited. For these people, the numbers worked so well that they could use what they owned for 10 years, light the place on fire, and come out ahead.

My favorite tour was the woman who simply turned up at the front desk and asked to see the program because she was sick of paying rack rate for Fantasy Fest/Lobster Mini-Season/Powerboat Races/Sailboat Races/Poker Run/whatever. (It was always a woman who came alone, without her husband. I got one sale like this every month.) This was pretty much a guaranteed sale. She knew what she paid for a week every year. All I had to do was beat that -- and point out that the airport isn't an issue because they don't take off or land at night, only during the day when tourists are out and about.

I liked what I was selling so much that I bought one myself. And used it to trade to Europe for three weeks every summer when it was blazing hot in Key West.

For the right person, none of the song and dance is necessary -- and it is COSTING developers sales. The kind of people they want to do business with. The ones who aren't going to slam the entire industry. Anyone good with numbers can see how much the "free" gifts given to timeshare moochers is costing actual buyers. (It's about half the total purchase price.)

 

[dioxide45]

People seem to forget I sold timeshares in Key West for years. I gave restaurant and attraction advice to people instead of a tour because I could wrap the entire thing up in 30 minutes. That's all I needed. Either the light went on after 30 minutes, or the light went on but they couldn't afford it, or they were dumb-asses.

My typical tour was a couple who flew down in their own plane and were staying at the Hyatt hotel. I knew how much they were paying to stay in Key West. And I knew how often they visited. For these people, the numbers worked so well that they could use what they owned for 10 years, light the place on fire, and come out ahead.

My favorite tour was the woman who simply turned up at the front desk and asked to see the program because she was sick of paying rack rate for Fantasy Fest/Lobster Mini-Season/Powerboat Races/Sailboat Races/Poker Run/whatever. (It was always a woman who came alone, without her husband. I got one sale like this every month.) This was pretty much a guaranteed sale. She knew what she paid for a week every year. All I had to do was beat that -- and point out that the airport isn't an issue because they don't take off or land at night, only during the day when tourists are out and about.

I liked what I was selling so much that I bought one myself. And used it to trade to Europe for three weeks every summer when it was blazing hot in Key West.

For the right person, none of the song and dance is necessary -- and it is COSTING developers sales. The kind of people they want to do business with. The ones who aren't going to slam the entire industry. Anyone good with numbers can see how much the "free" gifts given to timeshare moochers is costing actual buyers. (It's about half the total purchase price.)

Somehow you got all the rich people with private planes? Who got all the ones that drove in with their minivan stuffed with groceries from home?

 

[Ken555]

People seem to forget I sold timeshares in Key West for years. I gave restaurant and attraction advice to people instead of a tour because I could wrap the entire thing up in 30 minutes. That's all I needed. Either the light went on after 30 minutes, or the light went on but they couldn't afford it, or they were dumb-asses.

My typical tour was a couple who flew down in their own plane and were staying at the Hyatt hotel. I knew how much they were paying to stay in Key West. And I knew how often they visited. For these people, the numbers worked so well that they could use what they owned for 10 years, light the place on fire, and come out ahead.

My favorite tour was the woman who simply turned up at the front desk and asked to see the program because she was sick of paying rack rate for Fantasy Fest/Lobster Mini-Season/Powerboat Races/Sailboat Races/Poker Run/whatever. (It was always a woman who came alone, without her husband. I got one sale like this every month.) This was pretty much a guaranteed sale. She knew what she paid for a week every year. All I had to do was beat that -- and point out that the airport isn't an issue because they don't take off or land at night, only during the day when tourists are out and about.

I liked what I was selling so much that I bought one myself. And used it to trade to Europe for three weeks every summer when it was blazing hot in Key West.

For the right person, none of the song and dance is necessary -- and it is COSTING developers sales. The kind of people they want to do business with. The ones who aren't going to slam the entire industry. Anyone good with numbers can see how much the "free" gifts given to timeshare moochers is costing actual buyers. (It's about half the total purchase price.)

This is hilarious. I didn’t forget anything…I don’t know your history other than you sold timeshares at some point. It’s so nice to see that honest timeshare sales exists…


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[ScoopKona]

This is hilarious. I didn’t forget anything…I don’t know your history other than you sold timeshares at some point. It’s so nice to see that honest timeshare sales exists…

It was me and two friends -- one is dying of liver failure, one already died during the pandemic -- working there at the same time. We all used the "here's how it works" approach because none of us knew anything about how to sell timeshares. All three of us ended up buying a week.

All three of us used the week precisely how we explained it.

I sold weeks to professional race car drivers, sports fishermen, motorcycle dealership owners who made a fortune on Poker Run, loads of physicians who loved Fantasy Fest (says something about physicians.)

The only group I COULDN'T ever sell to was engineers. I gave up on them. As soon as I found out I had a Dilbert, I'd just tell him (it was always him), "Look, we both know you're not buying anything and just want the free gift. How about I tell you about Key West for 90 minutes while you pretend to look at this book and I can get you out of here."

 

[Ken555]

It was me and two friends -- one is dying of liver failure, one already died during the pandemic -- working there at the same time. We all used the "here's how it works" approach because none of us knew anything about how to sell timeshares. All three of us ended up buying a week.

All three of us used the week precisely how we explained it.

I sold weeks to professional race car drivers, sports fishermen, motorcycle dealership owners who made a fortune on Poker Run, loads of physicians who loved Fantasy Fest (says something about physicians.)

The only group I COULDN'T ever sell to was engineers. I gave up on them. As soon as I found out I had a Dilbert, I'd just tell him (it was always him), "Look, we both know you're not buying anything and just want the free gift. How about I tell you about Key West for 90 minutes while you pretend to look at this book and I can get you out of here."

Sorry, I have never been so lucky as to meet an honest timeshare sales before. I just don’t think they exist. That you’re good at sales I don’t doubt. And…I’ve had sales tell me before they just explain the program and let it do the selling…yeah, I’ve heard that story before.


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[ScoopKona]

Sorry, I have never been so lucky as to meet an honest timeshare sales before. I just don’t think they exist. That you’re good at sales I don’t doubt. And…I’ve had sales tell me before they just explain the program and let it do the selling…yeah, I’ve heard that story before.

I am absolutely no good at sales. I *AM* good at breaking down complex systems and explaining it to people.

"Here's how to get a full month of vacations for $800 per year."

Buyer: "What about the cost of the timeshare!?!?!?!!??!"

"It's the same as your car. You spend too much on the car and then spend more on gas, registration, taxes and insurance because you want to get from point A to B. Your other option is taxis or public transportation. It's the same with lodging. It's either this or go back to The Pink Poofter Bed and Breakfast for $600 per night. Your choice."

 

[Ken555]

I am absolutely no good at sales.

Really? Based on all your other posts, I had thought you were expert at everything.

 

[ScoopKona]

Really? Based on all your other posts, I had thought you were expert at everything.

Just cooking, brewing, distilling, travel, editing, renovating houses, designing furniture, astronomy, diving and high-fidelity stereo. I'm not even an expert at growing coffee -- although I get better each year.

 

[bnoble]

The only group I COULDN'T ever sell to was engineers.

Too bad we didn't meet earlier, because I would have bought what you were selling. Well, at the time you were selling it I might not have been able to afford it, but I would have understood why I should buy one when I could.

In fairness, I'm "can't do, teach" engineer, so maybe that doesn't qualify.

 

[ScoopKona]

Too bad we didn't meet earlier, because I would have bought what you were selling. Well, at the time you were selling it I might not have been able to afford it, but I would have understood why I should buy one when I could.

In fairness, I'm "can't do, teach" engineer, so maybe that doesn't qualify.

My engineers were always the sort who knew the price of everything but not the value of anything. Also the sort who asked, "If it's 10 minutes in a 400 degree oven, why not one minute in a 4000 degree oven?" The sort who were proud to announce that they wouldn't drink a $100 bottle of cabernet sauvignon because Two-Buck Chuck has the same alcohol content.

These are the people who would completely stress out over "the price of money." ("Dude, it's a TOY. You're buying a TOY. Treat it like a TOY.") Meanwhile their wife's Rolodex was filled with prospective divorce lawyers and paramours -- because their life was so stultifyingly dull living with Dilbert.

 

[bnoble]

"If it's 10 minutes in a 400 degree oven, why not one minute in a 4000 degree oven?"

Those people never cook anything. Good Lord. I tell my students this a lot: things need to simmer for the flavors to meld. You can cheat with more heat, or maybe a pressure cooker, but it never tastes the same. [This is to try to keep them from cramming the week before finals rather than just keeping up as we go. It never works.]

I also drank expensive booze, because I thought that would help me keep a lid on volume. That turns out not to work, at least it didn't for me.

I do care about time value of money, but I can still make one of these purchases pencil out vs. renting as you go. It is not that hard.

 

[ScoopKona]

Those people never cook anything. Good Lord. I tell my students this a lot: things need to simmer for the flavors to meld. You can cheat with more heat, or maybe a pressure cooker, but it never tastes the same. [This is to try to keep them from cramming the week before finals rather than just keeping up as we go. It never works.]

I also drank expensive booze, because I thought that would help me keep a lid on volume. That didn't work out all that well.

I do care about time value of money, but I can still make one of these purchases pencil out vs. renting as you go. It is not that hard.

Agreed. I penciled it out earlier in this thread. My cost per night has been $85 since purchasing this fun little toy. It costs less than a car when I bought it. And it wouldn't even buy a decent used car today.

I truly get why people have a sour taste for timeshares purchased at the Leaky Lake Lodge during Mosquito Season. I had an uncle -- long deceased -- who owned many weeks because he couldn't not take the tour for the free gift. And once at the presentation, he was incapable of saying no. So he had a slew of timeshares he paid for and never used. And he would swear up and down at anyone who would listen that timeshares are the work of the devil and none of them work at all.

My parents owned at a resort they loved. They enjoyed theirs so much they ended up with a few weeks -- which they always used at their home resort. Never trading, ever. They were content to work 48-50 weeks a year as long as they got their week getaways at their favorite resort. So they're another success story.

My friend who didn't survive the pandemic (nobody in his family will talk about how he died, and I don't press them), called me a few years back from a timeshare he had traded into in France. "Why does everyone hate France so much? This place is amazing! I'd move here if I could!"

And we talked for an hour about what to order when in France. And reminisced about our timesharing days in Key West. The biggest roadblock we had, every time, was getting people to believe that the program worked precisely the way we said it did. It still does -- at least for legacy owners who aren't falling for the Marriott's malarkey.

I know for certain that timeshares can be sold without the game show. No developer is interested in trying that -- because why risk change when the status quo is "working." (Badly, inefficiently. But weeks get sold.)

 

[rosco1e]

I found this video really helpful in getting out from under a timeshare. Clearly he has experience doing this.

 

[timsi]

Over the years, timeshare companies went away from doing presentations based on time value and how you save over renting. In the past, we were often pushed lots of numbers and adding up all the fees over time and how it actually came out ahead of renting. They don't do that anymore. The cost to buy in and annual maintenance fees has increased so significantly that the numbers no longer make sense.

This has not been my experience in the last 3-4 years, they continue to talk about how you save money over renting by owning timeshares. They always use extreme examples where the rental cost is for prime season at expensive resorts and the timeshare bookings are for medium or low season at average resorts. This is how they probably manage to sell entry level packages like 44k SO EOY that are actually useless and buyers will either have to sell at a huge loss or buy more later to reach a decent number of points. Maybe the treat you differently than the prospects they perceive to be less seasoned.

 

[elaine]

I had an honest Spinnaker HHI salesperson on an “upgrade” sell 10 years ago. They were taking back existing spinnaker deeds, giving full credit for purchase price towards Blue Water, then packaging those random deeds into a flex program. He looked at our resale purchase and said we got a good deal and it wasn’t worthwhile for us to trade up. (Ps-I talked to people at the pool the next 2 summer and the “recycled deed” flex program was working fine-folks able to book summer weeks).

 

[55534442]

Interesting episode. The Sponge Bob part made me laugh and the part about Timeshare sale's folks saving lives just like doctors and nurses....

,

I appreciate the humor and the strong encouragement to stay out of timeshares or to Get Out ASAP if you are already in. That said I wish there had been a warning to viewers about how much vulgar profanity was in what was otherwise a very entertainibg and educxational program about timeshares and timeshare exit companies.

 

[ScoopKona]

That said I wish there had been a warning to viewers about how much vulgar profanity

First time watching HBO?

 

[HuskerATL]

I appreciate the humor and the strong encouragement to stay out of timeshares or to Get Out ASAP if you are already in. That said I wish there had been a warning to viewers about how much vulgar profanity was in what was otherwise a very entertainibg and educxational program about timeshares and timeshare exit companies.

Actually we like our ownership and use our weeks often but folks do need to do their research and buy what makes sense for their lifestyle and finances. As for the f-bombs, is just a word so it doesn't bother me.

 

[TUGBrian]

I appreciate the humor and the strong encouragement to stay out of timeshares or to Get Out ASAP if you are already in. That said I wish there had been a warning to viewers about how much vulgar profanity was in what was otherwise a very entertainibg and educxational program about timeshares and timeshare exit companies.

apologies, that should have indeed been included!

I have put a warning on the first post.