John Oliver’s take on Timeshares

[flindberg]

From John Oliver’s show last night. Let’s say he’s not a fan. ** Strong language in this video **

Wow. Sadly every word rings true...

 

[flindberg]

I would like a lawyer to weigh in on the requirement he cites for heirs to file a disclaimer by 9 months. Is that a Utah regulation only for deeds based in Utah? or is this a universal law? (in some ways his statement is feeding into exit industry fearmongering.)

What if no action is taken and no MF paid. Is that equivalent to abandonment/walking and would fall under the state timeshare laws in the Sticky prepared by @Grammarhero? If in a trust, would it fall back to the trust which will be eventually dissolved (and you don't care about the trust's creditworthiness anyway.)

Following...

 

[SkyBornDancer]

I would like a lawyer to weigh in on the requirement he cites for heirs to file a disclaimer by 9 months. Is that a Utah regulation only for deeds based in Utah? or is this a universal law? (in some ways his statement is feeding into exit industry fearmongering.)

What if no action is taken and no MF paid. Is that equivalent to abandonment/walking and would fall under the state timeshare laws in the Sticky prepared by @Grammarhero? If in a trust, would it fall back to the trust which will be eventually dissolved (and you don't care about the trust's creditworthiness anyway.)

I'm no lawyer, but I've always wondered what to stop people from "selling" their timeshares that they want to exit into an LLC and then "whoops" the LLC does bankrupt. That is to say, it's supposed to go bust. This way the developer is stuck chasing a LLC that's gone away for maintenance etc.

 

[TUGBrian]

that was how the timeshare "exit" industry actually started, as what was then called "viking ship" business models.

the industry pretty much put an end to that once they began denying ownership transfers to fake/new/empty/etc LLCs or similar.

 

[LMD]

I feel fortunate to have found TUG way back in the late 1990’s prior to ever buying my first timeshare. We have taken so many great vacations and saved thousands of dollars over the years. I have also attended many presentations - usually for the free stuff….LOL! Fortunately even with the high pressure I was never tempted to buy because what I have has worked for me so well! Those sales people HATE to hear about it ….believe me!!!

 

[heitmullerj02]

Let the buyer beware! We all own, we all enjoy them, we all bought resale or at least felt we got a deal when we purchased. So many people don't take the time to understand what they purchased. I have owned since 1998 and enjoyed every trip. I own a fixed week in Sheraton and points in Hilton and would still consider another purchase. I was insulted by the video, made us all out to be fools. Yes, now with VRBO there is a viable alternative but when I purchased there wasn't. My friends think I'm nuts to own, but they all say yes to a cheap vacation with me. I do not regret my purchases.

 

[escanoe]

I have enjoyed reading @ScoopKona’s posts in this thread. I also agree that on Earth 2.0 we could see a more honest approach to selling timeshares that would work today in what would be a different kind of timeshare industry.

If the cess pool of developer sales we have today were to disappear and we had a more honest sales force and better educated consumers — one place I suspect we would see a lot of change is the LOCATION of where timeshares are sold.

A big part of why @ScoopKona could honestly sell timeshares that penciled out for buyers is because it was Key West. Timeshares there have value, and resales for those units he sold still have value.

Places where resales have no value are places it would be hard to have an honest approach to selling timeshares succeed. Slide of hand tricks and being a huckster is probably the only way to sell new timeshares in Branson, MO or Williamsburg, VA or Los Vegas, NV.

 

[SkyBornDancer]

that was how the timeshare "exit" industry actually started, as what was then called "viking ship" business models.

the industry pretty much put an end to that once they began denying ownership transfers to fake/new/empty/etc LLCs or similar.

Thanks so much for this and the "viking ship" reference. I was able to find this thread which basically explains the LLC and creator would likely be not protected and liable for fraud. Shame the timeshare salespeople who lie about things cannot be tried for fraud. It should work both ways.

Create a LLC Business to Get Rid of Timeshare?

Hi - I talked to a timeshare lawyer and he mentioned that you can set up a LLC business, transfer the timeshare to the LLC, then wait a year and stop paying all the MF and be done with the timeshare. Does anyone know if this is legit or will work? I guess the LLC protects the owner since it is...

tugbbs.com

 

[joestein]

Yes, all heirs would have to disclaim the timeshare if not left to a specific person, and it would go in age order, essentially. That being said, it's usually a one page declaration at least in the states i practice in. For me personally, I plan on getting rid of most of them once i am a widow, to avoid this. For now, my will gives my timeshares to my relatives i don't speak to, so just those relatives have to disclaim.

Revenge... huh?

 

[Ken555]

Revenge... huh?

It’s the new sales strategy for timeshares! Buy now, enjoy it, and then leave it to your unworthy relatives to deal with when you’re gone. Win, win!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[joestein]

There are only two real takeaways here:

1) Timeshare Exit companies are scum.

2) The average person will not read.

How many hundreds/thousands of happy owners do we have here (some reading this message right now) who are getting every penny's worth out of their timeshare?

What separates the happy owners from the unhappy owners? The happy owners did their homework. Period.

Everyone else was suckered by the promise of a free gift. And took the presentation -- knowing full-well it would be a high pressure sales pitch -- because someone dangled a meal, a show, or some tickets in front of them. The problem isn't timesharing. The problem is the game-show that it is wrapped up in. The person who is going to enjoy their timeshare does not need (or want) any gifts -- such people are intelligent enough to realize that all these "gifts" just push prices up for the buyers.

And yet, week in and week out, people post here about the gifts and the tours, acting like they have "beaten the man" because they received a gift in exchange for hours of their vacation.

What I love are the people who feel cheated and can't use their timeshares, but then buy in for more - multiple times.

What is the pitch?.... Those other salespeople were full of it! Just give me another $30K and I'll straighten it out.!

 

[PigsDad]

What I love are the people who feel cheated and can't use their timeshares, but then buy in for more - multiple times.

What is the pitch?.... Those other salespeople were full of it! Just give me another $30K and I'll straighten it out.!

I know you are purposely being a bit facetious here, but I recently ran into a case with some friends of ours (I just found out these details, so I wasn't able to warn them earlier) that resonates with your post. They had purchased into the Diamond system years ago (retail, of course), and had been convinced by salespeople to "upgrade" a few times, resulting in them having more points than they could reasonably use due to their lifestyle.

When we were visiting them a few months ago, they ask me (since they knew we owned HGVC) some questions about the system now that Diamond merged in with HGVC. They said they were at a recent owner's update (aka, sales pitch) and they were commenting that they had too many points. The salesperson actually told them that if they "upgraded their ownership" (which we all know what that means) for mucho $$$, they would then be able to sell off their extra points! HGVC does not have any formal buy back, so this was all lies.

What slimeballs! They heard that someone had too many points, and then made up custom-tailored lies that would only a) give them even more points that they can't use, and b) part them with more of their money. Just crazy.

The good news is that enough red flags went off that they didn't take the bait, and after talking w/ me, I think they have a better understanding what their options are at this point and hopefully won't fall for any more of their sales tricks. But in the end, you can only lead a horse to water...

Kurt

 

[dioxide45]

I know you are purposely being a bit facetious here, but I recently ran into a case with some friends of ours (I just found out these details, so I wasn't able to warn them earlier) that resonates with your post. They had purchased into the Diamond system years ago (retail, of course), and had been convinced by salespeople to "upgrade" a few times, resulting in them having more points than they could reasonably use due to their lifestyle.

When we were visiting them a few months ago, they ask me (since they knew we owned HGVC) some questions about the system now that Diamond merged in with HGVC. They said they were at a recent owner's update (aka, sales pitch) and they were commenting that they had too many points. The salesperson actually told them that if they "upgraded their ownership" (which we all know what that means) for mucho $$$, they would then be able to sell off their extra points! HGVC does not have any formal buy back, so this was all lies.

What slimeballs! They heard that someone had too many points, and then made up custom-tailored lies that would only a) give them even more points that they can't use, and b) part them with more of their money. Just crazy.

The good news is that enough red flags went off that they didn't take the bait, and after talking w/ me, I think they have a better understanding what their options are at this point and hopefully won't fall for any more of their sales tricks. But in the end, you can only lead a horse to water...

Kurt

They try to convince people that if they buy more then they are more valuable to resell. What BS. Bottom line, if you aren't happy with your timeshare, STOP GOING TO UPDATES!

 

[jp10558]

I normally redeem 19-24 nights per year for one of my weeks. I've learned the game, but the first rule is not to buy retail.

Ohhh, can you point a newbie to how you're doing that? Or where that info already is in TUG?

 

[jp10558]

Honestly, the main point here which is learn about what you're buying and understand how to use it is not a Timeshare issue, it's a everything issue. I am constantly amazed by the people out there complaining about *something* they bought that isn't working for them and it was because they didn't read the manual, or do any research before purchase about whether it'd work for them at all for what they want. There's a lot of people out there who are bad at life in general, or who you do have to wonder how they survive because they don't seem to be able to understand at all what's going on in pretty much any situation. These people don't understand contracts at all. They don't plan. They live basically on impulse. There are "horror stories" available for just about anything, and way too often it's of the persons own making.

That said, I don't defend the sales tactics. But I can imagine that unless we expect the sales people to do some sort of fiduciary assessment of the person and literally refuse to sell the product to the people being stupid, we'd have people complaining no matter how clear it's made. I mean, look at the standardized disclosures in the financial industry - they're generally pretty straight forward now, but people still complain about whatever product. Like IDK how people go to a timeshare presentation and not get that they are paying X amount of money to get the week or points. Of course I also don't get people who sign contracts without knowing what they're signing.

 

[jwalk03]

Honestly, the main point here which is learn about what you're buying and understand how to use it is not a Timeshare issue, it's a everything issue. I am constantly amazed by the people out there complaining about *something* they bought that isn't working for them and it was because they didn't read the manual, or do any research before purchase about whether it'd work for them at all for what they want. There's a lot of people out there who are bad at life in general, or who you do have to wonder how they survive because they don't seem to be able to understand at all what's going on in pretty much any situation. These people don't understand contracts at all. They don't plan. They live basically on impulse. There are "horror stories" available for just about anything, and way too often it's of the persons own making.

That said, I don't defend the sales tactics. But I can imagine that unless we expect the sales people to do some sort of fiduciary assessment of the person and literally refuse to sell the product to the people being stupid, we'd have people complaining no matter how clear it's made. I mean, look at the standardized disclosures in the financial industry - they're generally pretty straight forward now, but people still complain about whatever product. Like IDK how people go to a timeshare presentation and not get that they are paying X amount of money to get the week or points. Of course I also don't get people who sign contracts without knowing what they're signing.

Its like the people that buy a gym membership and yet never go to the gym! And then they are even too lazy to go to the gym to cancel the membership they are not using!

 

[Huskerpaul]

My wife watched this episode and now she is scared that we own timeshares and worries she will forever be stuck with them if I die. I told her we own contracts that have value and all she has to do is come on this site (or wmowners) and offer them for free. Someone will take them. However, I told her she better not give away our DVC points or I will come back and haunt her!

Thanks for nothing John!

 

[TUGBrian]

dibs on your free DVC points when your wife makes you give them away =)

 

[ScoopKona]

Thanks for nothing John!

Binary thinking on Oliver's part.

Timeshares must be either good or bad. And bad makes for better television. (I'd say "sells more ads" but it's HBO.) So what are they selling? Fear. Fear sells great! Just look at the Weather Channel any time there's a hurricane approaching the Florida Keys. Or if Kilauea erupts again. My phone rings off the hook with people who are terrified -- and they're in different time zones. Happens every ... single ... time.

The average person is incapable of understanding that some timeshares are great for some people. That same timeshare might be lousy for others. And some timeshares are just bad all around.

On the plus side, those of us who are enjoying the hell out of our timeshares were just handed a big bonus. All those timid morons who listen to the talking heads are going to divest. And trading will become that much easier for the rest of us. I don't bother telling my friends about timeshares. It's a waste of time. If they ask, I'll gladly tell them. My coworkers asked all the time. "Scoop, how can you travel so much?"

"Well, I bought this timeshare back when I lived in Key West, and I can trade that single week for an entire month every year for about $1600. That works out to $50 a night. I almost always have a kitchen and I often have a hot tub in my room."

"My grampy said timeshares are bad. So you must be wrong."

^^^^ That is the average person.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Its like the people that buy a gym membership and yet never go to the gym! And then they are even too lazy to go to the gym to cancel the membership they are not using!

One thing about the gym membership that is not true with Timeshare ownership in the USA. You usually can walk away from a gym membership and that's it. You can't just walk away as easy as that with a Timeshare ownership...... But, maybe in Mexico.







.

 

[jwalk03]

One thing about the gym membership that is not true with Timeshare ownership in the USA. You usually can walk away from a gym membership and that's it. You can't just walk away as easy as that with a Timeshare ownership...... But, maybe in Mexico.







.

Depends what kind of contract you sign! I remember stories of gyms duping people into signing up for years long personal training contracts that couldn’t be cancelled and paying thousands of dollars a year for them!

Obviously not as bad as the timeshare industry practices but similar nonsense

 

[jp10558]

Binary thinking on Oliver's part.

Timeshares must be either good or bad. And bad makes for better television. (I'd say "sells more ads" but it's HBO.) So what are they selling? Fear. Fear sells great! Just look at the Weather Channel any time there's a hurricane approaching the Florida Keys. Or if Kilauea erupts again. My phone rings off the hook with people who are terrified -- and they're in different time zones. Happens every ... single ... time.

The average person is incapable of understanding that some timeshares are great for some people. That same timeshare might be lousy for others. And some timeshares are just bad all around.

On the plus side, those of us who are enjoying the hell out of our timeshares were just handed a big bonus. All those timid morons who listen to the talking heads are going to divest. And trading will become that much easier for the rest of us. I don't bother telling my friends about timeshares. It's a waste of time. If they ask, I'll gladly tell them. My coworkers asked all the time. "Scoop, how can you travel so much?"

"Well, I bought this timeshare back when I lived in Key West, and I can trade that single week for an entire month every year for about $1600. That works out to $50 a night. I almost always have a kitchen and I often have a hot tub in my room."

"My grampy said timeshares are bad. So you must be wrong."

^^^^ That is the average person.

Is this direct RCI trades or something? I'm not really sure I understand how you would trade one week into 4?

 

[clifffaith]

One thing about the gym membership that is not true with Timeshare ownership in the USA. You usually can walk away from a gym membership and that's it. You can't just walk away as easy as that with a Timeshare ownership...... But, maybe in Mexico.







.

When my brother died my mother tried in vain to get the gym to stop hitting his bank account every month. Bank wouldn’t help, gym said they’d cancel but didn’t. Finally eight months later it stopped when she was ready to close his bank account.

 

[dioxide45]

Is this direct RCI trades or something? I'm not really sure I understand how you would trade one week into 4?

Buy a 2BR prime season and break it up into multiple low season studios (using points). The specific scenario is using Hyatt.

 

[jasontugaccount]

that was how the timeshare "exit" industry actually started, as what was then called "viking ship" business models.

the industry pretty much put an end to that once they began denying ownership transfers to fake/new/empty/etc LLCs or similar.

Is there any current merit to the viking ship model? Is it possible to hold a timeshare in any LLC today?
It seems wise to hold every timeshare long term in an individual LLC so that if it becomes a liability you cannot get rid of, you can just let the LLC become a viking ship, but also to keep it separate from your personal finances even while you are enjoying it.
Are timeshares able to prevent you from transferring to an LLC? Is there a legit way to do that?