Introducing HGV Max — Our New Membership Program (Official announcement from HGVC)

[dioxide45]

I had to download each of the images and open it in a program on my computer so I could zoom in to see the fine print.

 

[HuskerATL]

I cannot read the fine print or graphs. I can only read the bold words.

Look at dioxide45's post, https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/introducing-hgv-max-—-our-new-membership-program-official-announcement-from-hgvc.337066/post-2769748 but you can also open Smclough99's post in imgur, https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/introducing-hgv-max-—-our-new-membership-program-official-announcement-from-hgvc.337066/post-2769734 on a PC and see them better. I was trying to read them on my phone and couldn't but on a PC monitor, you can.

 

[escanoe]

This suggests this an exchange system between the two inventory programs and not a separate inventory pool like MVC's DP deed enrollment program.

Now we need to understand if HGVC owners continue to have rights to all existing HGVC inventory once the portal is launched. If DRI contracts are a mirror of this wording but for HGVC, then this confirms this is an exchange program.

I don’t understand this.

I think we know that HGV Max is not a “trust” as it has been described in official documents thus far.

I think we know that HGV Max involves some kind of portal or booking platform where HGV Max members can use points to book reservations across an HGVC / DRI crosswalk at 6 months out.

What suggests it is an “exchange system?” To me an “exchange system” is one where trading takes place in some type of symmetrical or balanced fashion. Ultimately, if the flow of inventory is not balanced as it moves back and forth between HGVC and DRI I worry the integrity of the two separate individual systems may not be maintained.

So I think it should ultimately be some kind of “exchange” but I have not read one word anywhere of meaningful detail as to how this flow of inventory between the two systems will operate in an “exchange like” manner?

When is their next quarterly investor call? That might shed some more light on long-term thinking. However, there is a real lack of detail on the specifics of the new program. At some point there has to be an official program document.

 

[HuskerATL]

I don’t understand this.

I think we know that HGV Max is not a “trust” as it has been described in official documents thus far.

I think we know that HGV Max involves some kind of portal or booking platform where HGV Max members can use points to book reservations across an HGVC / DRI crosswalk at 6 months out.

What suggests it is an “exchange system?” To me an “exchange system” is one where trading takes place in some type of symmetrical or balanced fashion. Ultimately, if the flow of inventory is not balanced as it moves back and forth between HGVC and DRI I worry the integrity of the two separate individual systems may not be maintained.

So I think it should ultimately be some kind of “exchange” but I have not read one word anywhere of meaningful detail as to how this flow of inventory between the two systems will operate in an “exchange like” manner?

When is their next quarterly investor call? That might shed some more light on long-term thinking. However, there is a real lack of detail on the specifics of the new program. At some point there has to be an official program document.

This suggests it.

 

[NiteMaire]

Ugh! Good point. DRI also known as "The CLUB"? (and of course not to be confused with "By Hilton Club" or HGVC!)

Nuanced, but as @dioxide45 pointed out, DRI's is actually THE Club. At first, I thought it may have been a typo by HGV, but I think it's intentional with The CLUB vice THE Club.

THE Club that HGV Max will be using is operated By Diamond Resorts International. I have a great suspicion that Max is just going to be using the exact same club that exists today under DRI. They aren't creating anything new except the 6 month booking window for Max reservations.

Max will be slightly different since it'll have HGVC resorts in it. Sure, it'll have inventory from THE Club, but it'll also have HGVC inventory. Although, I'd be happy to see additional HGVC resorts in DeX. I'm still convinced DeX will be the core of whatever HGV Max portal turns out to be.

you get access to all inventory available at 6 months at HGV DRI approved resorts not the subset of weeks that MAX owners deposit

That's my take as well. So on both sides, competition starts at 6 months when members of the other club gains access to your club's inventory. The only competition I see in addition is for the last minute inventory discounts/open season.

What suggests it is an “exchange system?” To me an “exchange system” is one where trading takes place in some type of symmetrical or balanced fashion. Ultimately, if the flow of inventory is not balanced as it moves back and forth between HGVC and DRI I worry the integrity of the two separate individual systems may not be maintained.

So I think it should ultimately be some kind of “exchange” but I have not read one word anywhere of meaningful detail as to how this flow of inventory between the two systems will operate in an “exchange like” manner?

Again, I think DeX is postured to be the core of the system (with a different name). You can confirm an "exchange"/reservation into a resort not in your collection (or deeded resort). It's virtually treated as an owner reservation. I think the setup is very similar to what they "need" for cross reservations between the multiple clubs.

Well, I see @HuskerATL posted as I was typing this and confirmed HGV Max exchanges will be through DRI which mean DeX will be/is the system. Now we just need to see how they integrate HGVC resorts into it. Although, they were already available within it (through RCI). I just completed a stay at The Grand Islander by HGVC. I exchanged into using (Traditional) DeX, and received an RCI confirmation (though I'm not an RCI members). I don't think these cross system exchanges will go through RCI, but we'll see.

Also, I've now seen "THE Club", "The CLUB", and "The Club"...I'm with @CalGalTraveler ...ugh!

 

[Mongoose]

If you look at the language from the contract that I posted, "The Club" is HGV Max.

View attachment 52175

"The Club" is the authorized buyer of points in DRI. This gives HGVC access to those locations. It does not describe DRI's access to HGVC locations.

 

[HuskerATL]

"The Club" is the authorized buyer of points in DRI. This gives HGVC access to those locations. It does not describe DRI's access to HGVC locations.

I am just showing you what is in the contract they presented me with in the offer to buy Kohala and the wording of HGV Max using The Club as an exchange. It could be that they use that exchange and add HGV properties to it.

 

[escanoe]

This suggests it.

So the word "exchange program" is there in a document. I look forward to learning how the integrity of the exchange is maintained on both sides to keep inventory from moving too much in a single direction. I don't see how it can be both an "exchange program" and encompass making all inventory available on both sides of HGV Max at the 6-month mark.

I am also taking in what @NiteMaire posted. It may utilize DeX the way he suggests, but that would be a fundamental change to how DeX operates today.

DeX is both an internal exchange (spanning DRI from within) as well as a tunnel to RCI on the backend for external exchanges. Maybe they adapt parts of it to serve HGV Max .... but it seems a bit too "apples and oranges" to me. My theory is it will be developed to eventually replace RCI across all of DRI/HGVC.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

ROFL... How HGV executives conduct branding meetings: (replace "SPAM" with "HGV" and "CLUB" or "Club" or...)

 

[dioxide45]

Well, I see @HuskerATL posted as I was typing this and confirmed HGV Max exchanges will be through DRI which mean DeX will be/is the system. Now we just need to see how they integrate HGVC resorts into it. Although, they were already available within it (through RCI). I just completed a stay at The Grand Islander by HGVC. I exchanged into using (Traditional) DeX, and received an RCI confirmation (though I'm not an RCI members). I don't think these cross system exchanges will go through RCI, but we'll see.

Based on the info you previously provided me, doesn't DeX for point owners use a more structured point schedule based on unit size and Tier? Where "the club" (won't capitalize anything since who knows what they are talking about) is pure point based where one HGVC point=One DRI point? For that reason, wouldn't it make more sense to put this through "the club" for a pure point based exchange system?

 

[NiteMaire]

It could be that they use that exchange and add HGV properties to it.

Agree, otherwise they'd have to operate 2 different exchanges for one program. That's neither efficient nor effective. And, as they stated, HGV Max members/owners have a separate portal (not portals).

Dex is both an internal exchange (spanning DRI from within) as well as a tunnel to RCI on the backend for external exchanges. Maybe they adapt parts of it to serve HGV Max .... but it seems a bit too "apples and oranges" to me. My theory is it will be developed to eventually replace RCI across all of DRI/HGVC.

I don't think it's too much of a difference technically. The key for me is that DeX is setup to take inventory from multiple Collections and even inventory from outside . Collections aren't too dissimilar from Clubs.

Based on the info you previously provided me, doesn't DeX for point owners use a more structured point schedule based on unit size and Tier? Where "the club" (won't capitalize anything since who knows what they are talking about) is pure point based where one HGVC point=One DRI point? For that reason, wouldn't it make more sense to put this through "the club" for a pure point based exchange system?

Yes, but the core of DeX (for points owners) is exchanging points for inventory that is not in your Collection. This fits well with exchanging points for inventory not in your club. I think you'll need to exchange x points for whatever you're exchanging into; DeX can already do this. Again, I defer to points owners like @youppi and @artringwald and others who could provide additional details on THE Club. In the end, you may be correct. Maybe they setup a new "Collection" that is all DRI and HGVC inventory within a rolling 6 month time frame, but I think DeX is positioned to handle the exchanges. I don't know enough about THE Club internals to make the same statement. Hopefully others can clarify.

ETA:

IMHO...I wouldn't read too much into the word "exchange." My interpretation is like going into two reservations systems with the same number of points. Once a choice is made it decrements your points ("exchange") so you cannot use those points for additional reservations (in HGV or DRI).

That's how I read it as well.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMHO...I wouldn't read too much into the word "exchange." My interpretation is like going into two reservations systems with the same number of points. Once a choice is made it decrements your points ("exchange") so you cannot use those points for additional reservations (in HGV or DRI).

@NiteMaire may be right. Dex may be the underlying technology that makes this work and is why they can roll Max out relatively quickly after the acquisition.

What we also need to confirm is whether the points exchange in MAX are 1:1 for DRI or HGVC inventory as it is today in legacy. I would like to see a points schedule for MAX. PM me if you want an explanation.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@NiteMaire Do you know if Embarc is currently available for exchange in DEX? If so this may be the mechanism to integrate Embarc into the MAX system and why it won't go into Legacy. HGV may already have the bridge to Embarc inventory via DeX.

One more question. Does DeX handle short stays? If not they have to add that functionality.

 

[NiteMaire]

One more question. Does DeX handle short stays? If not they have to add that functionality.

Ohh, good point. DeX is week-based for deeded owners, and I'm nearly 100% sure the same for points owners. THE Club is capable of short stays so @dioxide45 may be on to something there.
ETA: I guess we'll have a better idea when we find out if the reservations within 6 months will be only week exchanges or include short stays. Since they said exchange, I took it as 1 week, but I could be wrong.

Do you know if Embarc is currently available for exchange in DEX? If so this may be the mechanism to integrate Embarc into the MAX system and why it won't go into Legacy. HGV may already have the bridge to Embarc inventory via DeX.

Yes, but only studios at the moment.

What we still need to confirm is whether the current points exchange in MAX are 1:1 for DRI or HGVC inventory as it is today. PM me if you want an explanation.

It has to be right? That's why HGV did the points adjustment for HGVC.

 

[escanoe]

I appreciate all the discussion. What is amazing to me is how much we do not know about any of this.

I can’t imagine people shelling out real money for HGV Max when it is all theoretical and details in the public domain are not that helpful in understanding what it is.

But then, I guess the developer timeshare model has defied logic for sometime.

I feel like I have speculated and puzzled over this enough for a while. I look forward to seeing a program manual available to explain it. Once we have that + reports of real world experience from the HGV Max Beta (or should that be Beta Max) testers, I may start to see if any adjustments in my portfolio would be desirable.

 

[NiteMaire]

I feel like I have speculated and puzzled over this enough for a while. I look forward to seeing a program manual available to explain it.

But speculating is the fun part!

 

[dayooper]

But speculating is the fun part!

My favorite.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Perhaps I missed the memo: I saw a link on another site to the "Max Club Windows" which blends Max into every resort booking schedule.

Now we can understand how Max reservation windows will integrate by resort - mostly 6 mos. It appears that MAX DRI owners will have same club access to bHC in NYC as HGVC Club so more DRI Max competition when club window opens at those properties e.g. 59 days at W57 and 89 days at other NYC. Home week and Home resort windows remain the same for NYC owners.

Weren't GI and Houkulani previously 6 months club window? Now 9 mo for HGVC Legacy with 6 months for DRI Max.

 

[GT75]

Weren't GI and Houkulani previously 6 months club window? Now 9 mo for HGVC Legacy with 6 months for DRI Max.

Probably a mistake.

 

[dayooper]

Probably a mistake.

Chicago has changed in the Club Guide as well.

 

[terces]

I have been concerned with Max Elite with their 10 month booking window in effect front running our typical 9 month booking window.

But here is another thought. Numerous HGVC owners will be interested in booking the former Diamond resorts, so rather than competing at the 9 month window for HGV properties, they could hold off to the 6 month window to go after bookings at the Max properties. Speculation, but could this actually reduce the pressure on booking at the 9 month window and perhaps offset some of the damage done by permitting the aforementioned 10 month Max Elite front run?

 

[dayooper]

I have been concerned with Max Elite with their 10 month booking window in effect front running our typical 9 month booking window.

But here is another thought. Numerous HGVC owners will be interested in booking the former Diamond resorts, so rather than competing at the 9 month window for HGV properties, they could hold off to the 6 month window to go after bookings at the Max properties. Speculation, but could this actually reduce the pressure on booking at the 9 month window and perhaps offset some of the damage done by permitting the aforementioned 10 month Max Elite front run?

Max owners don’t have a 10 month booking window, they have a limited number or searches at 10 months depending their status.

 

[HuskerATL]

Max owners don’t have a 10 month booking window, they have a limited number or searches at 10 months depending their status.

But it books automatically when there is a match up to the 10 month window.

 

[GT75]

But it books automatically when there is a match up to the 10 month window.

Information so far doesn’t state that. It only says that it will search. When it will book is another matter which to me isn’t clear. I am sure the salespeople will spin it like you stated.

 

[NiteMaire]

But it books automatically when there is a match up to the 10 month window.

Information so far doesn’t state that. It only says that it will search. When it will book is another matter which to me isn’t clear.

I thought it was you can request at the 10-month point, but it books at 9 months. In essence, you're at the front of the queue when 9 months arrives. I can't remember if it was from documentation or someone speculating opining on TUG.