Introducing HGV Max — Our New Membership Program (Official announcement from HGVC)

[Nowaker]

Who all is going to an owner update soon? We will be in Orlando in July.

Sunrise Lodge (Utah) in June - IF we are invited.

 

[HuskerATL]

We have a presentation in Orlando in May. We have to attend as part of a three night preview package. Will be interesting to see how they sell this to a non Hilton owner.

It looks like you are the soonest. If you are open to folks sending you questions to pose to them, how would you like to do it? Nowaker goes in June so he could pose them there as well or follow up from yours.

 

[Great3]

Are they? As far as I know, Home Week is 365 days but do they guarantee Home Week reservations from 365 to 276? To be honest, I have never used Home Week so I am not sure about this.

Good point, and good question. I am probably premature with my thoughts, as I don't have anything to back it up, just my strong feelings which isn't good enough to be uphold as any sort of fact . But no matter what, it's how I feel. Going back to re-read what I wrote, I can see it coming off as some strong claims I was making. So feel free to pick apart, LOL!!!

We will see what the future holds and adjust as necessary.

Great3

 

[Great3]

Great3 said:
"[T]hey are violating Home Resort Week Priority at the 10 months mark, and I sure they will get sued for it.."



Anyone can sue over anything, but they won't have a leg-to-stand-on.
No booking term is guaranteed. HGVC can rewire the club as they please.
Even to the point of terminating the club. Its set out in the Rules.

Very true, if home resort week is only in the Club Rules book, than it can be changed at anytime. If it's written into a contract, that's different.

Great3

 

[tk25]

I’m all resale owner buying HGVC deeds in 2016 and 2017.

is open season going to be eliminated for resale owners like myself in the “legacy” part of HGVC.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

According to the video though, a Hilton rival didn't necessarily have to be another hotel brand.

Yes, that true. But i think competing hotel operations would be the most problematic. We don't know HGV negotiated changes to their agreement with Hilton Hotels regarding some of the other scenarios. I do recall when the deal was announced, HGV said they spent a lot of time working with Hilton Hotels on their marketing agreement..

Contracts are typically not public, so my guess is that other channel was basing their information from the filings when HGV was spun-off from Hilton, and things may be different now. Of course they might still be the same, but its possible they modified the agreement to account for the Diamond merger.

I am sure Hilton would not want HGV to operate a timeshare co-located with Marriott, IHG, etc. But they might be less concerned with other partners..

 

[escanoe]

The odds are 100% that Hilton corporate was a party involved in the plans and negotiations related to HGV purchasing DRI (if they were not negotiatng with DRI, they were negotiating with HGV and struck a deal). It may not ever become public, but I am sure there is a specific agreement between Hilton Worldwide and HGV on how the merger would be handled.

Hilton protected HGV from being acquired by DRI or another company earlier in the process.

Yes, that true. But i think competing hotel operations would be the most problematic. We don't know HGV negotiated changes to their agreement with Hilton Hotels regarding some of the other scenarios. I do recall when the deal was announced, HGV said they spent a lot of time working with Hilton Hotels on their marketing agreement..

Contracts are typically not public, so my guess is that other channel was basing their information from the filings when HGV was spun-off from Hilton, and things may be different now. Of course they might still be the same, but its possible they modified the agreement to account for the Diamond merger.

I am sure Hilton would not want HGV to operate a timeshare co-located with Marriott, IHG, etc. But they might be less concerned with other partners..

 

[Cyberc]

Max owners don’t have a 10 month booking window, they have a limited number or searches at 10 months depending their status.

My worry is that it’s for ALL hgvc inventory they can have the search running and not just Max inventory.
If it’s just Max inventory I’m not that worried.

 

[dayooper]

My worry is that it’s for ALL hgvc inventory they can have the search running and not just Max inventory.
If it’s just Max inventory I’m not that worried.

It’s going to be all, but Max members will be limited to certain amount of searches based on their tier status. It’s not a free for all. I’m not that worried about it. I may never be able to book Maui, but I’m not that worried about it. I believe Tier 2 (the most common level) will have 1 search reservation and the rest will be at 6 months. You also have to remember that DRI resorts line Kauai, Maui, Tahoe, Sedona and Cabo Azul in Cabo San Lucas will be big draws.

What will be will be and there’s no stopping it. All of the confusion and anxiety is all done on purpose to get us all hot and bothered so we will be more apt to buy from them.

 

[Cyberc]

What is unknown is how many elites exist on the DRI side and how many will find MAX attractive. .

Since current hgvc elite members aren’t grandfathered wouldn’t it be fair to assume that DRI elite aren’t either? Assuming that’s correct and assuming HGVC will halt DRI sales and only continue with HGV Max sales then there will be no DRI elite.

Then DRI direct purchasers might also only be able to buy their way in to Max for $7,000.

 

[NiteMaire]

It’s going to be all, but Max members will be limited to certain amount of searches based on their tier status. It’s not a free for all. I’m not that worried about it. I may never be able to book Maui, but I’m not that worried about it. I believe Tier 2 (the most common level) will have 1 search reservation and the rest will be at 6 months. You also have to remember that DRI resorts line Kauai, Maui, Tahoe, Sedona and Cabo Azul in Cabo San Lucas will be big draws.

What will be will be and there’s no stopping it. All of the confusion and anxiety is all done on purpose to get us all hot and bothered so we will be more apt to buy from them.

I thought it was for inventory in HGVC, unsold inventory in HGVC and HVC, and inventory from owners who join Max. Then again, I haven't heard from a DRI owner who went to an update at a DRI property. I went to one recently, but it was at an HGVC resort, and they simply pushed purchasing at HGVC.
FWIW, there's some (limited, but some) DRI inventory at the 6-month point on Maui
Are you certain the 10-month search applies to HVC? I may have missed it since some wording is vague.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Since current hgvc elite members aren’t grandfathered wouldn’t it be fair to assume that DRI elite aren’t either? Assuming that’s correct and assuming HGVC will halt DRI sales and only continue with HGV Max sales then there will be no DRI elite.

Then DRI direct purchasers might also only be able to buy their way in to Max for $7,000.

I would expect it should be more since they will have access to higher quality resorts and ability to convert to Honors so the value proposition is much stronger. Would be helpful to get reports from DRI members and what they are pitched on the DRI side.

From HGV side, so far I am not seeing sufficient value in Max to make the leap yet. May be more cost effective to rent DRI, trade in RCI/II, apply honor points to rent on Hilton.com, or spend the money on higher quality resorts in those locations. Waiting and watching...

 

[dayooper]

I thought it was for inventory in HGVC, unsold inventory in HGVC and HVC, and inventory from owners who join Max. Then again, I haven't heard from a DRI owner who went to an update at a DRI property. I went to one recently, but it was at an HGVC resort, and they simply pushed purchasing at HGVC.
FWIW, there's some (limited, but some) DRI inventory at the 6-month point on Maui
Are you certain the 10-month search applies to HVC? I may have missed it since some wording is vague.

Since they are putting resorts in Max, I would think they would be included in the search. Kauai and DRI Maui haven’t been reported as being rebranded Max yet, but Sedona, Tahoe and Los Cabos have been reported being rebranded.

 

[NiteMaire]

Since they are putting resorts in Max, I would think they would be included in the search. Kauai and DRI Maui haven’t been reported as being rebranded Max yet, but Sedona, Tahoe and Los Cabos have been reported being rebranded.

Yes, but I think the inventory will be from unsold inventory primarily, or at least the inventory available further out. They still have obligations to deeded week and Collection owners. I realize at some point prior to check-in, it may also be in Max. My gut is that deeded units will not be, but I could be wrong. I haven't seen anything about DRI deed owners with regard to Max. Deeded owners don't have points and Max is based on points.
Sedona Summit will likely be April 27 based on Hilton's website which allows booking at "HVC Sedona Summit" starting on that date; it's still "Coming Soon". I'll update my ownership that day

 

[Nowaker]

Anyone can sue over anything, but they won't have a leg-to-stand-on.
No booking term is guaranteed. HGVC can rewire the club as they please.
Even to the point of terminating the club. Its set out in the Rules.

First, the rules have to be followed, whatever they are. If a current rule is not followed, and you have damages, you can sue. (*)

Second, here's an excerpt from one of my deeds:

> Grantee has acquired a Type lI Vacation Ownership Interest.

> If Grantee has acquired a Type I, Type lll or Type IV Vacations Ownership Interest, Grantee
> shall be required to make a reservation for a Suite as described below in accordance with the
> provisions of the Declaration.
> Grantee is entitled to utilize a 2 bedroom Suite, with every Year occupancy rights in accordance
> with the provisions of the Declaration.

> Grantee, by acceptance hereof and by agreement with Grantor, hereby expressiy assumes and
> agrees to be bound by and comply with all of the covenants, terms, and provisions set forth in the
> aforesaid Declaration and the rules and regulations made thereunder, including, but not limited to,
> the obligation to make payment of all assessments as provided for therein. Grantee further
> waives the common law right as a co-tenant to nonexclusive occupancy of the Project, and
> acknowledges that ownership of the Vacation Ownership Interest conveyed hereby authorizes
> and entitles Grantee to occupy a Suite in the Project only in accordance with the Declaration,
> including but not limited to the reservation requirements established by Hilton Grand Vacations
> Club ("HGVClub") and other occupancy limitations of the Declaration and any rules and
> regulations promulgated thereunder.

> Grantee, by accepting this Deed, acknowledges that Grantee is required to be a member of
> HGVClub. Each membership shall be appurtenant to Grantee's Vacation Ownership Interest in
> the Project and shall be transferred automatically by conveyance of that Vacation Ownership
> Interest. Ownership of a Vacation Ownership Interest within the Project cannot be separated
> from membership in the HGVClub appurtenant thereto, except as otherwise provided by the
> Declaration, and any devise, encumbrance, conveyance or other disposition, respectively, of a
> Vacation Ownership Interest shall include the Grantee's membership in the HGVClub and rights
> appurtenant thereto, whether or not specifically named in the instrument of transfer.

They cannot "rewire the club as they please". First and foremost, everything that the deed grants to me cannot be infringed upon. If I'm promised a 2 BR, and original rules - at the time of the first conveyance of the deed to its first non-HGV buyer - granted me with exclusive access to 2 BR between 9 and 12 months mark, this right is engraved in stone, and subsequent HGVClub rules can not provide such benefits to non-owners.

Therefore: no, 10-months booking isn't happening. There's no legal way for them to do it, without separating old and new inventories. 12-9 months out home week is here to stay.


(*) - Actually, you have to go to arbitration, as per the rules - but this would only apply to HGV Club rule violation (e.g. unfulfilled points reservation, worse unit provided, etc). Violation of any right explicitly granted to you in the deed could go to court directly.

Even to the point of terminating the club. Its set out in the Rules.

Well...

> Grantee, by accepting this Deed, acknowledges that Grantee is required to be a member of
> HGVClub. Each membership shall be appurtenant to Grantee's Vacation Ownership Interest in
> the Project and shall be transferred automatically by conveyance of that Vacation Ownership
> Interest. Ownership of a Vacation Ownership Interest within the Project cannot be separated
> from membership in the HGVClub appurtenant thereto, except as otherwise provided by the
> Declaration, and any devise, encumbrance, conveyance or other disposition, respectively, of a
> Vacation Ownership Interest shall include the Grantee's membership in the HGVClub and rights
> appurtenant thereto, whether or not specifically named in the instrument of transfer.

Just because? No.

HGVC RESERVES THE RIGHT TO SUSPEND OR TERMINATE PARTICIPATION OF AN AFFILIATED
RESORT IN THE CLUB IF THE AFFILIATED RESORT FAILS TO MAINTAIN AND MANAGE THE
ACCOMMODATIONS AND FACILITIES OF THE AFFILIATED RESORT AT THE LEVEL OF QUALITY AND
CUSTOMER SERVICE ESTABLISHED BY HGVC FOR ALL AFFILIATED RESORTS FROM TIME TO TIME. AN
AFFILIATED RESORT’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CLUB MAY ALSO BE TERIMINATED OR SUSPENDED IF
THE ASSOCIATION FILES BANKRUPTCY OR BECOMES INSOLVENT. HGVC SHALL NOT HAVE THE RIGHT
TO TERMINATE THE AFFILIATION OF A CLUB RESORT DURING THE FIRST FIVE YEAR’S OF OPERATION
OR SO LONG AS THE DEVELOPER OF A CLUB RESORT CONTROLS THE OWNERS ASSOCIATION OF THE
PROJECT, AS SET OUT IN THE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS FOR THE CLUB RESORT.


Termination can only happen for a reason. The deed is not just restrictions that apply to your unit. The deed enumerates rights that you are granted as well. You are granted a right to be a member of HGVClub - as long as the HOA complies with their quality requirements. (Heck, owners could sue their own HOA if it would fail to meet HGVC's standards!). They cannot even pick and choose which rules to enforce for which resort - the same rules have to be applied equally to all resorts.

 

[dayooper]

Yes, but I think the inventory will be from unsold inventory primarily, or at least the inventory available further out. They still have obligations to deeded week and Collection owners. I realize at some point prior to check-in, it may also be in Max. My gut is that deeded units will not be, but I could be wrong. I haven't seen anything about DRI deed owners with regard to Max. Deeded owners don't have points and Max is based on points.
Sedona Summit will likely be April 27 based on Hilton's website which allows booking at "HVC Sedona Summit" starting on that date; it's still "Coming Soon". I'll update my ownership that day

I absolutely agree with the notion that deeded weeks will not be in Max unless HGV finds a way to entice owners to join. I’m not the owners of those weeks will bite, but HGV will surely try. Trust owned weeks? That might be a different story. They could also buy back weeks through ROFR and place those in Max as well.

As far as honoring the owners in a collection, don’t they have a priority at 13 months? Much like club reservations in HGVC, isn’t booking across collections a perk retail membership, not a right? That’s how I always thought of it as, but I’m not that knowledge on DRI policies as I am HGVC.

 

[Mongoose]

They are asking for real money with vague promises.

worse than that it has zero resale value.

 

[Mongoose]

I’m all resale owner buying HGVC deeds in 2016 and 2017.

is open season going to be eliminated for resale owners like myself in the “legacy” part of HGVC.

I don’t think so. I think availability will go down do to DRI.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I agree with @Mongoose, however if DRI adoption of Max is slow then the effect may take decade or so. Similar to HGV, DRI cannot access HGV unless they pay for an upgrade. It will depend on how much is asked and whether they see value.

There will also be HGV MAX owners booking DRI which should alleviate some pressure.

 

[GT75]

Here is what I am wondering, if a current HGVC owner joins HGV Max, what are they giving up? For example, are they giving up the Home Week booking window as @Nowaker stated above.

 

[Mongoose]

I don’t have enough points with HGVC to justify HGVMax even if I was eligible. I’m split with HGVC, Hyatt, HICV and WM.

 

[escanoe]

Here is what I am wondering, if a current HGVC owner joins HGV Max, what are they giving up? For example, are they giving up the Home Week booking window as @Nowaker stated above.

They are giving up the cold hard cash to purchase a developer deed to get in OR the ridiculous amount of money required to buy in based on owning a developer deed. If over time, the only way to get into HGV Max is to buy into a trust …. now that will open it up to more trade offs.

 

[tombanjo]

A bit off the current topic, but it looks like all retail sales will include max, I wonder if there will be anyone who does not want max will then look to "traditional" or legacy deeds as a better option. I realize a lot of people who buy retail buy the sizzle, and max is designed to be extra sizzley, but might be a bit obtuse to someone who wants a simple this is where I want to go every year kinda deal

 

[brp]

Here is what I am wondering, if a current HGVC owner joins HGV Max, what are they giving up? For example, are they giving up the Home Week booking window as @Nowaker stated above.

I can't imagine that someone ponying up for Max would get less than a cheap resale (or low-point-count retail) person. If we get Home Week, I have to believe that they'd get that in addition to other stuff.

Cheers.

 

[dioxide45]

I can't imagine that someone ponying up for Max would get less than a cheap resale (or low-point-count retail) person. If we get Home Week, I have to believe that they'd get that in addition to other stuff.

Cheers.

Perhaps, but many people buying developer are financing the purchase for a low monthly payment. They may not be able to pony up for an all cash high end resale week.