Introducing HGV Max — Our New Membership Program (Official announcement from HGVC)

[HuskerATL]

Information so far doesn’t state that. It only says that it will search. When it will book is another matter which to me isn’t clear. I am sure the salespeople will spin it like you stated.

It does, look on the pictures that were shared about HGVMax, but it does say Future State. So the higher the Elite Status, the more searches you get and the higher the priority for filling requests.

It is from this picture:

 

[brp]

I thought it was you can request at the 10-month point, but it books at 9 months. In essence, you're at the front of the queue when 9 months arrives. I can't remember if it was from documentation or someone speculating opining on TUG.

Even without a "booking advantage" per se, it means that folks less obsessed than we can "set it and forget it" for these searches. We watch like hawks for T-276 +/- 1 second. They don't need to do this.

Cheers.

 

[HuskerATL]

It is interesting though the other similar picture that shows similar info doesn't say "Future State" on the top but does have the footnote.

 

[Great3]

You are correct. It is for a deed not into a trust. I don't think the trust/point system is rolled out yet.

Perhaps there is possibility of both the deeded and trust option. Basically, HGVC stop selling into Diamond Trust system and instead only sell HGVC Max Trust at $0.22 / pt MF dues. Or if you don't want trust points (HGVC Max points), you can get a deeded week, but buy-in price is probably expensive for deeded weeks compare to buy in for Trust points. Not saying this is true, but that's what I am guessing, only way to make sense (to my mind) of all the different rumors they are being posted by people getting info. from their sales rep. So, maybe HGVC can sell you both type of ownership product depending on what you want (but Trust HGVC points aren't roll out yet?).

Great3

 

[GT75]

It does, look on the pictures that were shared about HGVMax, but it does say Future State. So the higher the Elite Status, the more searches you get and the higher the priority for filling requests.

I don't jump to that conclusion.

The statement says: "Eligible Members can set up an automated reservation search when there is no current reservation availability. ... any eligible number of nights, any accommodation size or type, and for up to 10 months prior to arrival"

So, will this system show availability if you don't own there at 10-month mark? It shouldn't because you are trying to book during the Home Week booking period. In addition, you are the one who asked the salesperson the direct question concerning booking. They didn't answer. So, I don't understand how this statement will be implemented, but I don't jump to the conclusion that this will book at 10-month mark.

 

[HuskerATL]

I don't jump to that conclusion.

The statement says: "Eligible Members can set up an automated reservation search when there is no current reservation availability. ... any eligible number of nights, any accommodation size or type, and for up to 10 months prior to arrival"

So, will this system show availability if you don't own there at 10-month mark? It shouldn't because you are trying to book during the Home Week booking period. In addition, you are the one who asked the salesperson the direct question concerning booking. They didn't answer. So, I don't understand how this statement will be implemented, but I don't jump to the conclusion that this will book at 10-month mark.

Yes, that is an odd line but I read that as if there is availability, it it will book right then but if there isn't then a search request will be created. I could be totally wrong but there is definitely the intent to provide Elite Max a pre-9 month booking period.

 

[GT75]

With what I am seeing here with this rollout, I don't foresee CI/Embarc agreeing to be part of it.

 

[dioxide45]

I was watching this YouTube video titled Could HGV be about to unload up to 40 Diamond resorts? and it seems to suggest that, at least long term I supposed, Hilton Grand Vacations won't be able to manage properties that aren't branded as Hilton;

At the 0:54 mark it indicates the following;
Hilton's Licencing agreement states - HGV can only apply the Hilton name to resorts approved as acceptable to themselves. HGV cannot without permission operate resorts under a different name/label to circumvent the above. HGV cannot hold inventory where services are provided by a Hilton rival.

It goes on to talk about which resorts Hilton may need to disaffiliate, but I think it also gets some facts wrong and seems to mention a lot of DRI affiliates, not actual Diamond operated properties. Any thoughts on this? Is there a chance that Hilton tries to unload a bunch of Diamond properties in the future? If so, what happens to inventory in the collections for those resorts? Or will they try to strongarm the boards to bring them all up to Hilton standards at the cost of the owner base?

 

[Mongoose]

I was watching this YouTube video titled Could HGV be about to unload up to 40 Diamond resorts? and it seems to suggest that, at least long term I supposed, Hilton Grand Vacations won't be able to manage properties that aren't branded as Hilton;

At the 0:54 mark it indicates the following;
Hilton's Licencing agreement states - HGV can only apply the Hilton name to resorts approved as acceptable to themselves. HGV cannot without permission operate resorts under a different name/label to circumvent the above. HGV cannot hold inventory where services are provided by a Hilton rival.

It goes on to talk about which resorts Hilton may need to disaffiliate, but I think it also gets some facts wrong and seems to mention a lot of DRI affiliates, not actual Diamond operated properties. Any thoughts on this? Is there a chance that Hilton tries to unload a bunch of Diamond properties in the future? If so, what happens to inventory in the collections for those resorts? Or will they try to strongarm the boards to bring them all up to Hilton standards at the cost of the owner base?

And that was mainly Europe. I think the problem would be much larger in the US.

 

[GT75]

Isn’t that old news previously reported?. I think the issue is DRI-European collection. I am away from home so I will investigate later if someone else doesn’t report back.

 

[escanoe]

Yes, that is an odd line but I read that as if there is availability, it it will book right then but if there isn't then a search request will be created. I could be totally wrong but there is definitely the intent to provide Elite Max a pre-9 month booking period.

My reading has been that it allows the requests to be placed at 10 months, but the inventory will not be available until 9 months out. But suffice it to say, the language lacks specificity.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I read somewhere that it will work like an OGS in RCI. Owners put in their request for the resort date and unit types up to 10 months prior. When the unit becomes available at 9 months. The highest Elite tier gets first reservation that is reserved and held up to 24 hours where they opt-in, if not it is released back into the pool, then second tier elites get theirs (which may be simultaneous to first tier if not the same units and dates) then 3rd tier elites get theirs. We'll have to see what's official and how this actually works after rollout.

 

[HuskerATL]

My reading has been that it allows the requests to be placed at 10 months, but the inventory will not be available until 9 months out. But suffice it to say, the language lacks specificity.

For what it is worth, that is exactly the question that I had for the sales rep and here was his response after I had pulled out, "your Loyalty search would have given you a 10 month advantage to book"

 

[escanoe]

For what it is worth, that is exactly the question that I had for the sales rep and here was his response after I had pulled out, "your Loyalty search would have given you a 10 month advantage to book"

They are asking for real money with vague promises.

If you can set a search at 10 (which may result in priority booking at 9 months), are they not giving you a 10-month advantage?

I am not saying I know what it is .... I am saying none of us know what it is ..... in my view it is best to interpret salesforce promises (if even true) to mean the least of what could be interpreted from the vagueness versus the most. If they truly are allowing these bookings (actual bookings) more than 9 months out ..... they are taking something away from owners that they said they would not.

 

[HuskerATL]

Who all is going to an owner update soon? We will be in Orlando in July. It would be good to pool a list of questions from across this group and pose it to them to see the responses. I understand that you can only take their responses with a grain of salt but I still like to make them answer the questions and then compare to what others have been told....and take pictures of any sales documents.

 

[Great3]

They are asking for real money with vague promises.

If you can set a search at 10 (which may result in priority booking at 9 months), are they not giving you a 10-month advantage?

I am not saying I know what it is .... I am saying none of us know what it is ..... in my view it is best to interpret salesforce promises (if even true) to mean the least of what could be interpreted from the vagueness versus the most. If they truly are allowing these bookings (actual bookings) more than 9 months out ..... they are taking something away from owners that they said they would not.

Agreed, they are violating Home Resort Week Priority at the 10 months mark, and I sure they will get sued for it if it happens. They only way they can do 10-month booking is if they have a trust system with different inventory, that owners already deposited into for HGV Max points. If it's crossover booking, 10-months booking shouldn't be allowed, no matter what kind of Elite you are, you don't trump the Home Resort Week owners. At least that's how I see it. So, we will see how this plays out.

Great3

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Great3 My interpretation is that you can place the search starting at 10 months but no availability until 9 mos 12 midnight ET like an OGS in RCI. So not a violation.

All, let's not forget that there are a limited number of searches per Max Elite level: 1 at the lowest Elite Tier to 5 Premier to 7 Centum.

The odds are extremely low your 9 month res will get taken:

• We know the number of current HGV Elite's is small (does anyone have a %? I will bet < 3% of owners and most at lowest tier.)
• The number of Max Elites will be even smaller (how many will pay $10k+ to buy in? I am hearing on private Elite boards, that Elites are outraged that they were not grandfathered into Max after all they have invested in the system at retail.)
• Max Elites have a limited number of searches by tier: 1 search, max 7 for Centum
• The odds of Max Elites using their limited loyalty requests
  1. For your exact unit (n out of n units need to be reserved via loyalty request e.g. 10 out of 10 1 bdrm unit odds)
  2. On the same dates (1 out of 52 weeks odds)

I am not a statistician but would love a stats geek to calculate the odds.

Although I cannot calculate the exact numbers, this tells me the odds are very low your desired week will be taken at 9 months.

What is unknown is how many elites exist on the DRI side and how many will find MAX attractive. Perhaps @youppi or other DRI owners can enlighten us.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

And that was mainly Europe. I think the problem would be much larger in the US.

I
How many of the Diamond resorts in the US are linked with Hilton rival? Obviously this clause would have been discussed directly with Hilton prior to the merger, and I am sure this is one factor in the desire to rebrand as many as possible. Much harder to accomplish at a timeshare attached with the different hotel brand.

 

[dioxide45]

How many of the Diamond resorts in the US are linked with Hilton rival? Obviously this clause would have been discussed directly with Hilton prior to the merger, and I am sure this is one factor in the desire to rebrand as many as possible. Much harder to accomplish at a timeshare attached with the different hotel brand.

According to the video though, a Hilton rival didn't necessarily have to be another hotel brand.

 

[HuskerATL]

Agreed, they are violating Home Resort Week Priority at the 10 months mark, and I sure they will get sued for it if it happens. They only way they can do 10-month booking is if they have a trust system with different inventory, that owners already deposited into for HGV Max points. If it's crossover booking, 10-months booking shouldn't be allowed, no matter what kind of Elite you are, you don't trump the Home Resort Week owners. At least that's how I see it. So, we will see how this plays out.

Great3

Are they? As far as I know, Home Week is 365 days but do they guarantee Home Week reservations from 365 to 276? To be honest, I have never used Home Week so I am not sure about this.

 

[HuskerATL]

@Great3 My interpretation is that you can place the search starting at 10 months but no availability until 9 mos 12 midnight ET like an OGS in RCI. So not a violation.

All, let's not forget that there are a limited number of searches per Elite level: 1 at the lowest Elite Tier to 5 Premier to 7 Centum.

The odds are extremely low your 9 month res will get taken:

• We know the number of current HGV Elite's is small (does anyone have a %? I will bet < 3% of owners and most at lowest tier.)
• Most Elites are at the lowest tier
• The number of Max Elites will be even smaller (how many will pay $10k+ to buy in? I am hearing on private Elite boards, that Elites are outraged that they were not grandfathered into Max after all they have invested in the system at retail. Max announcement has created mistrust by formerly loyal Elites who are saying, "No more $. Will remain Legacy")
• Max Elites have a limited number of searches by tier: 1 search, max 7 for Centum
• The odds of Max Elites using their limited loyalty requests
  1. For your exact unit (n out of n units need to be reserved via loyalty request e.g. 10 out of 10 1 bdrms units odds)
  2. On the same dates (1 out of 52 weeks odds)

I am not a statistician but would love a stats geek to calculate the odds.

Although I cannot calculate the exact numbers, this tells me the odds are very low your desired week will be taken at 9 months.

What is unknown is how many elites exist on the DRI side and how many will find MAX attractive. Perhaps @youppi or other DRI owners can enlighten us.

And to add that this isn't rolled out and is stated as Future State so who knows what will happen.

 

[HuskerATL]

Who all is going to an owner update soon? We will be in Orlando in July. It would be good to pool a list of questions from across this group and pose it to them to see the responses. I understand that you can only take their responses with a grain of salt but I still like to make them answer the questions and then compare to what others have been told....and take pictures of any sales documents.

I say this about Orlando but my wife may divorce me if I make her attend another owner update.

 

[dioxide45]

We have a presentation in Orlando in May. We have to attend as part of a three night preview package. Will be interesting to see how they sell this to a non Hilton owner.

 

[Talent312]

Great3 said:
"[T]hey are violating Home Resort Week Priority at the 10 months mark, and I sure they will get sued for it.."

Are they? AFAIK, Home Week is 365 days but do they guarantee Home Week reservations from 365 to 276?

Anyone can sue over anything, but they won't have a leg-to-stand-on.
No booking term is guaranteed. HGVC can rewire the club as they please.
Even to the point of terminating the club. Its set out in the Rules.

 

[dayooper]

Agreed, they are violating Home Resort Week Priority at the 10 months mark, and I sure they will get sued for it if it happens. They only way they can do 10-month booking is if they have a trust system with different inventory, that owners already deposited into for HGV Max points. If it's crossover booking, 10-months booking shouldn't be allowed, no matter what kind of Elite you are, you don't trump the Home Resort Week owners. At least that's how I see it. So, we will see how this plays out.

Great3

This is exactly why they are doing a search at 10 months and it books at 9 months if it's open. That way, they don't disrupt the deeded home week period. To get owners and potential owners to purchase into Max, they had to give an advantage over non Max members in the club season (and to discourage resale purchases).