Interesting WSJ article on timesharing: avg TS 24k from developer; >50% financed at >13%; Marriott buys back 90M & re-sells for 1B each year...

[4TimeAway]

I feel like the "Free Weeks" are being resold as desirable product. The reseller is not disclosing that another party gave back for nothing or what the price paid was.

That said for limited situations, I can see resale going up in price, if the MFs can be better contained. The subjective part is the trading, what else you can get access to and trusting the TS Industry.....

Example:
My thought is a 3 bedroom penthouse in Waikiki is very expensive. Maybe $3M? Let's say $2.6M so each week on average would be $50,000. If you can get a New Year's week for $50,000 objectively you're underpaying. Sure you've got to over pay for some housekeeping, fees, etc. to use it, but there is a value.

 

[bnoble]

The reseller is not disclosing that another party gave back for nothing or what the price paid was.

It is not a sales agent's job to explain why you should not buy from them.

 

[4TimeAway]

It is not a sales agent's job to explain why you should not buy from them.

Agree 100%, but there must be fair dealings.

What I object to is lying to the Buyer. There's a term for it in the industry, Pitching Heat. While I don't know this firsthand, I'm guessing, that their definition is a bit broader than mine would be (and assume most others).

I'm taking issue that the Seller is stating that the "week" has value, is an asset and the process of reducing the product to the point where it no longer meets the needs of the customer. It seems like these things happen on a regular basis, In my 2 presentations even knowing how timeshares work the act of building confidence was 100% there as was glossing over (ignoring) the recurring costs and throwing out numbers with so much spin I had to stop them more than once to get them to disclose the total costs. Obviously, some weeks/points can’t even be given away.

It’s all subtle, planed, and effective. Their ability to add in the contract that what you heard doesn't apply is also troubling from a consumer protection angle. that doesn't work in so many other areas of business, why should timeshare get an exception?

There are some weeks and deals that I feel really can work for people at Retail Pricing and many people on TUG have willingly spent the money.

It just seems a couple times a week, we hear about someone who was not a good fit for the product being sold a product in a way that makes the industry earn its bad reputation. We don’t hear from the 90%+ of people who timeshares work for and the families that get to enjoy more time together having more and better vacations.

 

[mountainboy]

Another stat from ARDA (TS industry Trade group): >60% of all TS owners have income <100k

Avg TS sale almost $24k

<50% of folks staying at a property are owners (or owner's guests), 10% exchange, 15% rentals, 5% marketing

U.S. Timeshare Industry: By the Numbers | ARDA

www.arda.org

 

[RiesTravels]

The problem is people don't research before spending there money especially when making major purchases whether its buying a house, a car or a timeshare. Heck most people don't really research the repair guy either. This is despite information being at your fingertips like never before.

 

[gravityrules]

Hmm, 'average' age of owner is 39? That stat seems suspect.
Isn't 18 the minimum owner age? I wouldn't expect many 18-25 owners either. So this would be quite a non-normal distribution of ages. There are a large group of owners 30+ years above this 'average' but it's not even possible to be that many years below.

 

[vacation911]

To the OP, you did your job.

Met a guy last week doing a Bluegreen stay for a tour. Told him not to buy developer showed him tug. Talked about resale, rescinding and how timeshares work etc.... he still went in and bought a 2 bedroom developer for 40k plus.
Ego is expensive

I had an unexpected experience recently while at a resort. While relaxing in the hot tub, someone mentioned a purchase they made from the resort. My friend suggested they check online to see what similar properties are going for on resale. It turns out they mentioned this to someone else, and next thing I knew, security confronted me! I received a warning that I could be kicked out and potentially issued a trespassing warrant because they claimed I was interfering with sales — apparently against their policy and, according to them, the law.

I was pretty shocked and upset. I didn’t think suggesting someone look up resale values was a big deal. Policies are not laws, after all! In the moment, I decided to let it go, but I was frustrated that my good intentions were met with such a strong reaction.

At least it was just one bad day for me, but they’ve made a lifelong commitment to their purchase. And they’ve lost every dollar they invested because they decided to tattle rather than listen to sound advice. I feel justice worked itself out fairly in the end.

 

[TUGBrian]

holy smokes what resort was this...and does anyone have a rental available there? id like to visit! =)

 

[vacation911]

holy smokes what resort was this...and does anyone have a rental available there? id like to visit! =)

Tug Brian It was a Wyndham Vacation Resort. Particularly the Club Wyndham Sea Gardens. All 4 resorts are handled and managed by the GM Dan Hernandez. Club Wyndham....Palm Aire, Sea Gardens, Santa Barabara and Royal Vista. I believe he is also the GM for the Puerto Rico Margaritaville location and possibly St. Thomas Margaritaville. Apparently, the threat security made came from the GM, is what they told me. Sea Gardens has some units by Wyndham and some by Worldmark...This was at the Sea Gardens location, and I was staying as a Wyndham owner. I was told I would be banned from all the locations in South Florida despite having an ownership.

I often wonder how they could enforce that I pay dues, if they issued a trespassing warrant.

 

[pedro47]

Hmm, 'average' age of owner is 39? That stat seems suspect.
Isn't 18 the minimum owner age? I wouldn't expect many 18-25 owners either. So this would be quite a non-normal distribution of ages. There are a large group of owners 30+ years above this 'average' but it's not even possible to be that many years below.

The average age of 39 is about right when you factor in timeshare owners in their seventies with timeshare owners in their thirties. .. The median age of 39 sounds just about correct....IMHO

 

[pedro47]

I had an unexpected experience recently while at a resort. While relaxing in the hot tub, someone mentioned a purchase they made from the resort. My friend suggested they check online to see what similar properties are going for on resale. It turns out they mentioned this to someone else, and next thing I knew, security confronted me! I received a warning that I could be kicked out and potentially issued a trespassing warrant because they claimed I was interfering with sales — apparently against their policy and, according to them, the law.

I was pretty shocked and upset. I didn’t think suggesting someone look up resale values was a big deal. Policies are not laws, after all! In the moment, I decided to let it go, but I was frustrated that my good intentions were met with such a strong reaction.

At least it was just one bad day for me, but they’ve made a lifelong commitment to their purchase. And they’ve lost every dollar they invested because they decided to tattle rather than listen to sound advice. I feel justice worked itself out fairly in the end.

To the OP and To TUGBRIAN, What would happen if you wore a TUG T SHIRTS on at this resort?

 

[vacation911]

To the OP and To TUGBRIAN, What would happen if you wore a TUG T SHIRTS on at this resort?

Funny thought for sure about the shirts.... During my time at the resort, it became clear that WVR policy was being treated as though it were the absolute law. It was incredibly frustrating, and while I wanted to argue and make a scene, I chose not to escalate the situation.

Interestingly, security's involvement actually drew more attention to the matter. Throughout the week, numerous guests who had witnessed the incident approached me to ask what had happened. When they asked, I explained the situation: that discussions around the resale value of timeshares were banned, likely because it could impact the sales team’s efforts.

I imagine that some of those guests, perhaps even just one, went on to research the resale market for themselves. That thought gives me some solace!

 

[WorldT]

I seriously doubt there is a written policy about that. Even more interesting is how they can possibly enforce a ban on an owner from discussing something like that.

 

[vacation911]

I seriously doubt there is a written policy about that. Even more interesting is how they can possibly enforce a ban on an owner from discussing something like that.

I doubt it too. Regardless that's what they (security) said. I am sure they viewed what I said out of context and viewed the discussion as my friend encouraging the new owner to cancel. The only information they had was what the new owner who tattled said. They obviously were butt hurt that my friend was suggesting their purchase was not all cotton candy and lollipops and that they should do some diligence on what they actually sell for resale by going to ebay and typing in Wyndham points. Since the new owner did not take well to what he said, I am sure they told on us because they didn't like what we told them. Wyndham improvised a response because they knew we were there all week and thought we intended to get the people to cancel. So they made up a policy and quoted it as the law. It's all ridiculous looking back.