HRC to acquire Welk Resorts [MERGED]

[Pathways]

But with HRC, even if two units in different locations are assigned the same amount of points, don't you still have to hope that the week you want was traded or given up by another owner if all the prime intervals have been bought?

Yes, but again an oversimplification.

With many timeshare groups, if you want a certain week every year you must be on the phone/computer at an exact time/day months in advance and then 'hope all goes well. And forget multiple rooms.

With HRC, you can buy that week, + for HRC. - for HRC is that it is a fixed week, and if you want the week before/after, you are in the same group with everyone else trying to reserve it.

With Welk, I believe it is the same as most timeshare groups - Be on the phone/computer far in advance to get the week you want if it is a high demand location. The main difference here is how many Welk locations have a huge specific season/demand. Therefore, it may be quite easy for you to get whatever unit you want, wherever you want. I don't think Branson or San Diego have a season where people are clamoring for specific dates/rooms.

Same with Hyatt in Sedona and a few other places, reservations are pretty easy. Key West in J,F,M is even easy - (just not Sunset Harbor)

 

[Pathways]

This is such a bummer. I am disappointed that MVC is integrating Welk into Hyatt instead of their DPs program

As a multi week HRC owner I am very pleased with the buy. I doubt I will ever use Welk, I have no plans to join the point system. But the HRC as a stand alone has long term viability issues.

For maybe they are planning to acquire Hyatt hotels too?

MVC club does not currently own any hotels, so I would be quite surprised if they are entertaining the purchase of Hyatt or any other hotel group. Hotels and timeshare units don't mesh well from a corporate structure standpoint, which is why they have all gone their separate ways. Even Wyndham has now split.

 

[Shankilicious]

Yes, but again an oversimplification.

With many timeshare groups, if you want a certain week every year you must be on the phone/computer at an exact time/day months in advance and then 'hope all goes well. And forget multiple rooms.

With HRC, you can buy that week, + for HRC. - for HRC is that it is a fixed week, and if you want the week before/after, you are in the same group with everyone else trying to reserve it.

With Welk, I believe it is the same as most timeshare groups - Be on the phone/computer far in advance to get the week you want if it is a high demand location. The main difference here is how many Welk locations have a huge specific season/demand. Therefore, it may be quite easy for you to get whatever unit you want, wherever you want. I don't think Branson or San Diego have a season where people are clamoring for specific dates/rooms.

Same with Hyatt in Sedona and a few other places, reservations are pretty easy. Key West in J,F,M is even easy - (just not Sunset Harbor)

Not accurate on Welk. Like I've said before, I can book whatever week I want around 9 months out unless I'm going for Valentine's week or Christmas.
I just checked last night, Valentine's of 22 in northstar and Breck are still available with multiple room sizes and it's been available to all annual owners since November of 20.

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[heathpack]

I'm surprised none of the commenting Hyatt owners are interested in Cabo.

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I am.

 

[nuwermj]

Not accurate on Welk. Like I've said before, I can book whatever week I want around 9 months out unless I'm going for Valentine's week or Christmas.
I just checked last night, Valentine's of 22 in northstar and Breck are still available with multiple room sizes and it's been available to all annual owners since November of 20.

Keep in mind that Welk has three years of unsold inventory at these locations. As it is sold off, availability will suffer.

Also, Marriott's conference call emphasized that they plan to put Welk units into Hyatt's rental markets. They claimed Welk has a very inefficient rental program. This too is going to squeeze availability.

 

[heathpack]

How much of these are rights held by the ownership of the deed and how much are benefits provided by the developer? What I'm getting at is that developers can always change the benefits they offer but they cannot change one's deeded rights. How much of the HRC system is "guaranteed" in the deed? And are the guarantees transferable with the sale of the deed?

The right is to use your week, your unit at your resort, for a full or split week, every year or every other year as specified. I believe the points are integral to the deed but that’s a little meaningless because Hyatt has the right to modify the points system in any manner they choose.

Yes points are transferable with the sale of the deed.

 

[Kal]

...But with HRC, even if two units in different locations are assigned the same amount of points, don't you still have to hope that the week you want was traded or given up by another owner if all the prime intervals have been bought?...

Even if all the prime weeks have been purchased, it doesn't mean the owners are occupying the units. Those owners might stay in other weeks at the owned resort or other resorts, or use their points in Interval.

The actual owner occupancy rate across the system is somewhat low. The highest owner occupancy is Sunset Harbor in Key West. Even then, the occupancy during the ultra prime weeks (Jan thru Mar) is maybe about 75%. That means there will always be units available to book. You just have to plan ahead and get on a wait list early. If Sunset Harbor is the highest in the system, all the other resorts are more available. Other difficult bookings would be high season ski-weeks at the mountain resorts and summer weeks at Tahoe.

The more undesired unit-weeks which couldn't be sold have already been transferred to the HPP.

 

[TravelTime]

As a multi week HRC owner I am very pleased with the buy. I doubt I will ever use Welk, I have no plans to join the point system. But the HRC as a stand alone has long term viability issues.



MVC club does not currently own any hotels, so I would be quite surprised if they are entertaining the purchase of Hyatt or any other hotel group. Hotels and timeshare units don't mesh well from a corporate structure standpoint, which is why they have all gone their separate ways. Even Wyndham has now split.

No I meant Marriott might acquire Hyatt. It is confusing as to why MVC would rebrand to a brand that competes with Marriott Corp.

 

[dioxide45]

This is such a bummer. I am disappointed that MVC is integrating Welk into Hyatt instead of their DPs program. This makes no sense to me. Hyatt brand is a competitor so why would they do this? If anything, I thought they would rebrand Hyatt to Marriott or Westin. Maybe they still plan to re-brand at some point. For maybe they are planning to acquire Hyatt hotels too? Another possibility is they will build up Hyatt timeshare program and sell it? The last seems less likely if they are investing in the brand. I just hope they integrate both Hyatt and Vistana into Marriott Vacation Club.

According to information previously provided, their agreement with Hyatt requires some level of growth and new properties. They can't just let it die or merge it with their Marriott brand without violating that agreement. I don't know how long that agreement is for, but it was written up when Hyatt Hotels spunoff their timeshare division and sold it to ILG.

 

[dioxide45]

No I meant Marriott might acquire Hyatt. It is confusing as to why MVC would rebrand to a brand that competes with Marriott Corp.

Marriott International (the hotel company) isn't the same as Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) the timeshare company. They are both separately traded public corporations with their own shareholders. VAC owns rights to Marriott Vacation CLub, Sheraton Vacation Club, Westin Vacation CLub and Hyatt Residence Club brands. VAC needs to continue to invest in the Hyatt Residence Club. If Marriott Vacations Worldwide doesn't later spinoff Hyatt Residence Club, I could see them changing their name to no longer include "Marriott". Kind of like how HMS Host did years ago. The M in HMS once stood for "Marriott".

 

[seatrout]

HRC legacy weeks were always traded using points. If you didn’t use your deeded week, you got X number of points based on season and unit size and “premierness” of your resort. With those points you could trade within HRC internally, or for nonHyatt units you’d trade in II. Both of those options still exist. You didn’t pay anything extra to be in this system. It *was* the system.

HPP ownership gives you points without an underlying deed. You can use those points in HRC or in II, the same way as the legacy weeks owners. The differences are: you own something with zero resale value, you’re at the mercy of HRC if they change points values, you can book any number of days and any check in day (legacy owners can book 2, 3, 4 or 7 day reservations with only certain check in days possible, the specific days vary by resort and for some of them like Pinon Pointe pretty much every check in day is possible), and you are given access to HRC units somewhat on par with HRC owners (but HRC owners are given lesser access to HPP units- I’m talking about waitlist timing here).

There are numerous fees with both HRC and HPP, but these fees vary a little bit from each other.

Without buying in to HPP, HRC legacy weeks owners can access HPP on an “as available” basis. To fully participate in HPP, however, the legacy week owner must buy a small bucket of HPP points at a cost of around $10-13,000. This gives you a tiny number of points- I think maybe 600. Versus the 2000 points I get from my Highlands Inn resale unit that I purchased for around $2000.

 

[seatrout]

I had two 2200 points week with HRC for decade and finally just gave in and convert to HPP by buying their "ancient loyal owner specials" To join the game I had to add 500 HPP points at a special discount. It is still around $9K to join and play. It is still much more than what I had to do on the Marriott side. On the Marriott side, I have joined the DC game and added points to get to the Chairman level on promise that some how when Westin/Marriott get combine, there will be some perks.

My observations since converting:

1) HRC points can not book HPP inventory beyond 6 months while HPP points can access those inventory. Since HPP owner "convert" their HRC weeks to HPP point January-March, there is much more HPP inventory >6 months than HRC.
2) HPP points can also cross over and book the HRC inventory at >6 months.
3. Hyatt system put a large premium in Friday night. With HPP, there are flexibility in booking any number of nights. As such I can get 6 night in Coconut plantation during Xmas for 1320 points vs 7 night for 2200 points.
3. Many of the fees does go away if I use HPP to book HPP inventory as well and the silly booking/cancelling fees goes away for several reservation.
4. You can bank points for two year and still book in the Hyatt system. Prior, if I can not use it then I would have to deposit to II
5. The newly "Hyattized" HRC converted to HPP point can be convert to Hyatt hotel points

The sale people also promise that once converted, my II account get modify so that it has the same internal trading privilege as my Marriott account- although there is still trading fees. (I have-not confirm this yet)

So as of now, still no buyer regrets yet. I think in someway the merger of Welk/Hyatt will be similar format.

1. Initial increase internal trading within II between Hyatt, Welk, Marriott, Westin (in the past Marriott deposits stay in Marriott II trading pool for 30 days and can be seen by my Marriott II account and NOT Hyatt II account)
2. Some set of cross booking between HPP, HRC and Welk inventory <6month window using common points conversion.
3. >6 months, booking within your pool (HRC-HRC), Welk-Welk, OR pay extra to join HPP so you can book across between all three
4. Deed weeks stay Deed week until they convert to their respective points pool

 

[Tenga]

I had two 2200 points week with HRC for decade and finally just gave in and convert to HPP by buying their "ancient loyal owner specials" To join the game I had to add 500 HPP points at a special discount. It is still around $9K to join and play. It is still much more than what I had to do on the Marriott side. On the Marriott side, I have joined the DC game and added points to get to the Chairman level on promise that some how when Westin/Marriott get combine, there will be some perks.

My observations since converting:

1) HRC points can not book HPP inventory beyond 6 months while HPP points can access those inventory. Since HPP owner "convert" their HRC weeks to HPP point January-March, there is much more HPP inventory >6 months than HRC.
2) HPP points can also book the HRC inventory as well. I was initially scarred of this but confirm with several test booking (my HPP points were originally HRC prior to conversion anyway)
3. Hyatt system put a large premium in Friday night. with HPP, there flexibility in booking any number of night. As such I can get 6 night in Coconut plantation during Xmas for 1320 points vs 7 night for 2200 points.
3. Many of the fees does go away if I use HPP to book HPP inventory as well and the silly booking/cancelling fees goes away for several reservation.
4. You can bank points for two year and still book in the Hyatt system. Prior, if I can not use it then I would have to deposit to II

The sale people also promise that once converted, my II account get modify so that it has the same internal trading privilege as my Marriott account- although there is still trading fees. (I have-not confirm this yet)

So of now, still no buyer regret yet

Seatrout your statement in # 2) above not accurate! Its been well documented that HPP points and HRC points can not by law be co-mingled. HRC/MVC would be in court faster then you could say "book that reservation". No way the two can combine and share bookings, each are separate inventory's and are not accessible to each other. Which thank the Lawyers when the two programs were formed had the foresight too keep em separate!

Anyone care to dispute this???
Regards,
Tenga

 

[seatrout]

Seatrout your statement in # 2) above not accurate! Its been well documented that HPP points and HRC points can not by law be co-mingled. HRC/MVC would be in court faster then you could say "book that reservation". No way the two can combine and share bookings, each are separate inventory's and are not accessible to each other. Which thank the Lawyers when the two programs were formed had the foresight too keep em separate!

Anyone care to dispute this???
Regards,
Tenga
[/QU

 

[seatrout]

For sure at <6 month there is cross over
I am not able to test >6momth as most of my HPP points are 2022 use year and test of 2021 points are HRC

During my limited search

at >6 month. There are more HPP than HRC inventory at the commonly hard to locate place such as Aspen, Highland Inn Sunset Harbor

 

[seatrout]

My statement #2 is absolutely correct based on the exchange agreement in Hyatt website educational materials:

Hyatt Portfolio website:
How do I make a Hyatt Residence Club Exchange reservation?
Members of the Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program can use their Portfolio Program points to make Club-to-Club Exchange reservations for two-, three-, four-, and seven-night stays at any Hyatt Residence Club Resort from 12 months to one day before the desired arrival date.

At HRC instruction
How do I make a Portfolio Program Exchange reservation?
If you are a Hyatt Residence Club member, but not a member of the Portfolio Program, you may still make a Portfolio Program Exchange reservation for a stay of one to 30 nights up to six months before your requested arrival date (or as late as one day before) at Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program resorts.

 

[dmelcher13]

For anyone interested or that has insomnia, here is a copy of the HPC Owner Information Book.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[alexadeparis]

If you did a survey on Tug, I am guessing 80%+ would rate Hyatt as higher quality than Welk.

I'm not saying that Welk doesn't have good resorts, but if you were to average out the portfolio of the Welk trust vs the unit weeks in Hyatt, there is no comparison.

And on that note if they Hyattize those units the MF will skyrocket for the Welkers.

 

[alexadeparis]

I'm surprised none of the commenting Hyatt owners are interested in Cabo.

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Personally, I can get Cabo from my Westin or HGVC so no thrill for me now Through this merger.

 

[alexadeparis]

No I meant Marriott might acquire Hyatt. It is confusing as to why MVC would rebrand to a brand that competes with Marriott Corp.

I believe after welk and Hyatt are integrated it will be on the market again.

 

[Kal]

My statement #2 is absolutely correct based on the exchange agreement in Hyatt website educational materials:

Hyatt Portfolio website:
How do I make a Hyatt Residence Club Exchange reservation?
Members of the Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program can use their Portfolio Program points to make Club-to-Club Exchange reservations for two-, three-, four-, and seven-night stays at any Hyatt Residence Club Resort from 12 months to one day before the desired arrival date.

At HRC instruction
How do I make a Portfolio Program Exchange reservation?
If you are a Hyatt Residence Club member, but not a member of the Portfolio Program, you may still make a Portfolio Program Exchange reservation for a stay of one to 30 nights up to six months before your requested arrival date (or as late as one day before) at Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program resorts.

For the highly sought after reservations, an owner will almost always need to be on the wait list. IMHO, a person on the wait list would likely have the advantage over any HRC unit irrespective of HPP status.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

I believe after welk and Hyatt are integrated it will be on the market again.

Some hedge funds might find it a safer bet than shorting stocks.

 

[Sapper]

My statement #2 is absolutely correct based on the exchange agreement in Hyatt website educational materials:

Hyatt Portfolio website:
How do I make a Hyatt Residence Club Exchange reservation?
Members of the Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program can use their Portfolio Program points to make Club-to-Club Exchange reservations for two-, three-, four-, and seven-night stays at any Hyatt Residence Club Resort from 12 months to one day before the desired arrival date.

At HRC instruction
How do I make a Portfolio Program Exchange reservation?
If you are a Hyatt Residence Club member, but not a member of the Portfolio Program, you may still make a Portfolio Program Exchange reservation for a stay of one to 30 nights up to six months before your requested arrival date (or as late as one day before) at Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program resorts.

You are confusing reservation systems with properties.

To make it simple, there are three buckets of points.
1) HRC 2) HPP 3) HRC+HPP.
Bucket 1 may be booked only by HRC members >180 days.
Bucket 2 may be booked only by HPP members >180 days.
Bucket 3 may be booked by either HRC OR HPP members <179 days.

 

[seatrout]

For the highly sought after reservations, an owner will almost always need to be on the wait list. IMHO, a person on the wait list would likely have the advantage over any HRC unit irrespective of HPP status.

I agree with you there. The issues however is the deposit pattern. They are different in HRC owner vs HPP. HRC owner tend not to deposit early while all HPP have to "convert " by March. Most of my best Hyatt reservation are early wait list and wait till 6 month window.

On a side note, I don't think the maintenance fees will alter with Welk integration. One of my favorite aspect about my Hyatt through the year is it it's inequality in point conversion currency. Two bedroom in Aspen or Park Hyatt during ski weeks cost same number of points to book as two bedroom in Sedona. Yet the maintenance fees and value of the two resort different greatly. Because of this inequality, those owners rarely deposit and would put it in the rental market for $$$. In the early year, much of those coveted week were developer week as they were more expensive to sell. We were lucky enough to book Siesta Keys during 4th of July, Aspen & Northstar during Xmas with my lowly Key West at the expense of developer units in the early years. We were able to book repeatedly in the past. Those days are gone now. Marriott DC and Welk corrected these currency inequality as Welk Xmas in Northstar does not cost the same points to book as Welk Xmas in Branson. Also with Marriott, Ritz Xmas week or Maui does not cost the same points to book as Orlando. The value to those weeks, if deposited also return more points and thus motivated the owner to deposit rather than rent. Because of this, the currency as it relate to maintenance fees correction are built in to each of Welk inventory.

 

[seatrout]

You are confusing reservation systems with properties.

To make it simple, there are three buckets of points.
1) HRC 2) HPP 3) HRC+HPP.
Bucket 1 may be booked only by HRC members >180 days.
Bucket 2 may be booked only by HPP members >180 days.
Bucket 3 may be booked by either HRC OR HPP members <179 days.

Actually there are only two bucket
1) HRC
2) HPP
HRC pay booking fees $41 in any bucket
HRC may book bucket 1 at <365 days- - Although it would be rare for a HRC owner to deposit a week at 365 days.
HRC May book Bucket 2 at <179 days via Club to Club Exchange
HRC can request bucket 1 at 18 months out

HPP can request bucket 1 or 2 based on tier
HPP can book bucket 1 at <366 days- No booking fees or cleaning fees
HPP can book bucket 2 at <366 days via Club to club Exchange - $41 "exchange" fees and cleaning fees
at <179 day you can use combination of HPP and HRC points book bucket 1 or 2 " $41exchange fees if using point that is outside bucket"