HRC to acquire Welk Resorts [MERGED]

[Shankilicious]

I hope so too but I’m not holding my breath. So far, I’ve not known HRC to make very many owner-friendly moves.

Funny your comment on not wanting a deed. HRC has been (maybe no more!) the best of both worlds- deed plus points. I find myself thinking with this change- well worst case scenario, I can just use my deeded weeks. It will make me sad if HRC makes my points less usable by diluting the system with lots of new users and not giving me access to the new inventory. But worst case scenario I go to Tahoe every June and mountain bike for a week, and I go to Carmel every other year in May for road biking and wine tasting.

I get it that some folks don’t like to travel to the same places repeatedly. Hyatt points have always traded very well in II. So we had three great options- deeded week usage, internal Hyatt trading, and II use. I’m not trying to talk anyone into liking a deeded week but I personally see only upside.

We‘ve settled into a fairly happy cycle of travel: Carmel March-ish, Tahoe June-ish, Park City Septemberish, and Sedona Novemberish. With some modifications to accommodate other locales.

Anyway, I hope the same as you: this merger makes things better. But if not, I can live with visiting the units on my deeds.

Right on. Like I said, fixed weeks, it's just not for me. I have never had a problem booking anywhere inside Welk with booking 3-9 months in advance.
I love II and how well Welk trades in it but that's extra fees one has to pay.


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[Kal]

Right on. Like I said, fixed weeks, it's just not for me. I have never had a problem booking anywhere inside Welk with booking 3-9 months in advance....

Try not to think of HRC as "fixed weeks". Yes, you do have exclusive rights to a single unit/week every year, but that unit represents a point value. Those points are perhaps the best feature where you can stay at all the other resorts for a period of 3-7 days. FYI, for one of my HRC units, I have never ever stayed in the unit. I always use those points elsewhere.

 

[travelhacker]

Right on. Like I said, fixed weeks, it's just not for me. I have never had a problem booking anywhere inside Welk with booking 3-9 months in advance.
I love II and how well Welk trades in it but that's extra fees one has to pay.


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If they place HRC and Welk Owners on equal footing (without requiring new money) and adjusting point values across the system, Welk Owners will 100% be the victors in this merger. HRC has some of the best timeshares out there.

 

[Shankilicious]

Try not to think of HRC as "fixed weeks". Yes, you do have exclusive rights to a single unit/week every year, but that unit represents a point value. Those points are perhaps the best feature where you can stay at all the other resorts for a period of 3-7 days. FYI, for one of my HRC units, I have never ever stayed in the unit. I always use those points elsewhere.

How does internal trading work for HRC now? Do you have to be enrolled in the points program? Is there a fee?

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[Shankilicious]

If they place HRC and Welk Owners on equal footing (without requiring new money) and adjusting point values across the system, Welk Owners will 100% be the victors in this merger. HRC has some of the best timeshares out there.

Welk Cabo, Northstar, and Branson (yes even Branson) are all blue medal in II and Cabo and Tahoe are in the RCI registry collection.

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[travelhacker]

Welk Cabo, Northstar, and Branson (yes even Branson) are all blue medal in II and Cabo and Tahoe are in the RCI registry collection.

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If you did a survey on Tug, I am guessing 80%+ would rate Hyatt as higher quality than Welk.

I'm not saying that Welk doesn't have good resorts, but if you were to average out the portfolio of the Welk trust vs the unit weeks in Hyatt, there is no comparison.

 

[heathpack]

How does internal trading work for HRC now? Do you have to be enrolled in the points program? Is there a fee?

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HRC legacy weeks were always traded using points. If you didn’t use your deeded week, you got X number of points based on season and unit size and “premierness” of your resort. With those points you could trade within HRC internally, or for nonHyatt units you’d trade in II. Both of those options still exist. You didn’t pay anything extra to be in this system. It *was* the system.

HPP ownership gives you points without an underlying deed. You can use those points in HRC or in II, the same way as the legacy weeks owners. The differences are: you own something with zero resale value, you’re at the mercy of HRC if they change points values, you can book any number of days and any check in day (legacy owners can book 2, 3, 4 or 7 day reservations with only certain check in days possible, the specific days vary by resort and for some of them like Pinon Pointe pretty much every check in day is possible), and you are given access to HRC units somewhat on par with HRC owners (but HRC owners are given lesser access to HPP units- I’m talking about waitlist timing here).

There are numerous fees with both HRC and HPP, but these fees vary a little bit from each other.

Without buying in to HPP, HRC legacy weeks owners can access HPP on an “as available” basis. To fully participate in HPP, however, the legacy week owner must buy a small bucket of HPP points at a cost of around $10-13,000. This gives you a tiny number of points- I think maybe 600. Versus the 2000 points I get from my Highlands Inn resale unit that I purchased for around $2000.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

tasting.

I’m glad I own a deeded week and I’m hopeful that I can still use my Hyatt week to do internal exchanges into a few places I really want to visit post COVID.

 

[Kal]

How does internal trading work for HRC now? Do you have to be enrolled in the points program? Is there a fee?

First, let's make sure we use the same terminology.

* HPP is a pure points program where you pay an outrageous entry fee and own no real HPP property. That money is gone forever as there is no resale value. Whenever you refer to this program, just call it HPP. Maintenance fees are "averaged" over all resorts in that system.

* HRC is deeded ownership AND a points program where the owned week has a point value. The points can be used as desired. The ownership can be sold on the open market and the owner can rent the unit to others. Please refer to this program as HRC. Maintenance fees are based on the specific resort and unit-week owned.

The "internal trading" is a key part of the entire HRC program. No enrollment or special fee required. You just spend your points like money from a wallet. Make a reservation for the desired target resort, calendar period, size of unit and length of stay. There may be a booking fee (~$40). Generally, units start to become available 12 months prior to occupancy.

 

[Shankilicious]

If you did a survey on Tug, I am guessing 80%+ would rate Hyatt as higher quality than Welk.

I'm not saying that Welk doesn't have good resorts, but if you were to average out the portfolio of the Welk trust vs the unit weeks in Hyatt, there is no comparison.

See, Im inclined to disagree to an extent in that with all the fixed weeks, you have to hope that somebody gives up their vacation or prime week where you want to go and make sure you own as nice of a unit that's as big and in the same season.
All those variants must align in order to swap a summer florida two bedroom for a Breck ski season two bedroom. Or am I wrong on that?
I 100% agree that 9/10 people will know Hyatt before Welk and assimilate Hyatt with high quality.
Welks system again, seems incredibly more flexible with lots of availability.
I've got no problem paying a couple grand to play in Hyatt as long as it's reasonable. $13ish thousand seems quite steep for a system that is not the main system for internal trades.


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[Pathways]

All those variants must align in order to swap a summer florida two bedroom for a Breck ski season two bedroom. Or am I wrong on that?

Rather than say you're wrong. I will say that is an 'oversimplification'

If you own a summer FL week, there are a number of points attached to that week. If you choose to use the points, you can use them anywhere.

With Welk, you buy a certain # of points that you hope will be enough to get the vacation (Room size/location/season) you want. Hyatt is the same, but you first choose whether or not you want to utilize the 'owned week'. Once you decide to use the points, same as Welk.

 

[heathpack]

I've got no problem paying a couple grand to play in Hyatt as long as it's reasonable. $13ish thousand seems quite steep for a system that is not the main system for internal trades.

Yes I think most HRC owners would feel the same way. Charge me $1500-$2000 to enroll my existing HRC in HPP and I’d do it. Force me to buy $13k of something worthless- Nope.

The big advantage to enrolling most existing HRC owners with a nominal fee is that you wind up with one big inventory of available nights instead of two split inventories. Then everyone wins and you have a system that sells itself. Imagine not needing to rely on deceptive sales practices.

So my biggest hope here is that with the Welk purchase is that Hyatt seizes an opportunity to offer a nominal enrollment fee. The ideal would be to offer existing Welk and HRC owners a chance to do one of three things: 1. Enroll in HPP for say $1500, 2. Buy 600 or more HPP points (which enrolls you in HPP), or 3. Hold on to what you’ve got- in which case HRC owners can access HRC inventory, Welk owners can access Welk inventory and HPP owners can access it all.

 

[Pathways]

There are HRC owners who only buy underlying weeks that are what/where they want to travel. And there are some owners that simply utilize the points, and never use the week. Best of both worlds, IMO

 

[Shankilicious]

Rather than say you're wrong. I will say that is an 'oversimplification'

If you own a summer FL week, there are a number of points attached to that week. If you choose to use the points, you can use them anywhere.

With Welk, you buy a certain # of points that you hope will be enough to get the vacation (Room size/location/season) you want. Hyatt is the same, but you first choose whether or not you want to utilize the 'owned week'. Once you decide to use the points, same as Welk.

Pretty accurate on the Welk side.
But with HRC, even if two units in different locations are assigned the same amount of points, dont you still have to hope that the week you want was traded or given up by another owner if all the prime intervals have been bought?
Another question, how far out do you need to look/plan for a prime week with HRC?

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[TravelTime]

I think that speculation has been killed off by several calls and interviews made by Marriott Vacations Worldwide executives. They have pretty much said that any integration between Marriott and Vistana will exclude Hyatt and Hyatt will always stand alone. Likely one reason they are looking to expand it through this acquisition.

This is such a bummer. I am disappointed that MVC is integrating Welk into Hyatt instead of their DPs program. This makes no sense to me. Hyatt brand is a competitor so why would they do this? If anything, I thought they would rebrand Hyatt to Marriott or Westin. Maybe they still plan to re-brand at some point. For maybe they are planning to acquire Hyatt hotels too? Another possibility is they will build up Hyatt timeshare program and sell it? The last seems less likely if they are investing in the brand. I just hope they integrate both Hyatt and Vistana into Marriott Vacation Club.

 

[Pathways]

wap a summer florida two bedroom for a Breck ski season two bedroom

So it is not a 'SWAP'. It is possible your summer FL week is worth more points that the Breck ski week. In that case, you only 'spend ' the points required, and have points left over for other stays/uses.

A Breck ski week is not generally hard to get if you plan ahead and reserve it early. However, the resort there is not huge, and the available units there may reserve quickly.

 

[TravelTime]

If you did a survey on Tug, I am guessing 80%+ would rate Hyatt as higher quality than Welk.

I'm not saying that Welk doesn't have good resorts, but if you were to average out the portfolio of the Welk trust vs the unit weeks in Hyatt, there is no comparison.

The Northstar properties beat Hyatt in Tahoe handsdown. Hyatt is not in a ski resort. This is why Hyatt Tahoe is not popular during winter season, only in summer. Welk is directly in the Northstar ski resort’s village. Their units are premium and upscale.

 

[travelhacker]

@Shankilicious

The way it works is this for the HRC "Legacy" system:

You own a fixed week that has an allotted number of points. 12 months before check in you will see the points show up in your account. You have the exclusive right to book that week up until 6 months before your check in date. If you don't confirm your reservation, your exclusive right to that week is essentially rescinded and your week is released to other owners.

If you book something with your points prior to 6 months, your week is automatically released into the Hyatt system.

This makes availability quite good. Booking fees / cancellation fees are annoying, but it does have the side effect of preventing high points owners just booking up all the good stuff and figuring out later what they want to do.

You asked about Florida availability. Right now you could book basically any week that is 6 months or less out in Coconut Point or any of the Key West Properties (besides sunset harbor -- it is right in downtown...but there is still availability there) during the summer.

Fixed week owners will often tire of visiting the same place and since they have A LOT of high quality options, they will often trade into other weeks freeing up their inventory.

Some of the hardest weeks are week 52 and week 7 during ski season. As long as you do advanced planning and put in wait list requests, you can get a lot of high quality stays in high demand areas.

 

[heathpack]

Pretty accurate on the Welk side.
But with HRC, even if two units in different locations are assigned the same amount of points, dont you still have to hope that the week you want was traded or given up by another owner if all the prime intervals have been bought?
Another question, how far out do you need to look/plan for a prime week with HRC?

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Well the owners of prime weeks are incentivized to trade them by being assigned high points values. For example, I bought a 1 BR platinum unit at Hyatt Highlands Inn which is assigned 2000 pt. This is consider a premier unit and is assigned to points value of a 2BR diamond week in most of the rest of the system. (It’s not particularly “premier” honestly, but it was to HRCs advantage to make it so.)

I bought my unit after HPP because I want to stay at Highlands Inn regularly and wanted to be sure I could. But I get a lot of points for the unit, so I didn’t actually use it the first year I owned it. I traded it for Hyatt Ka’anapali.

But the basic concept is correct. Some HRC folks pay a premium for a ski week in Aspen, so those units aren’t a dime a dozen in HRC trading. Summer weeks at Hyatt High Sierra are hard to get, because so many of those owners bought to use. However a 1BR II trade into Tahoe in the summer only costs me 870 points plus an exchange fee. So there’s good options.

With HRC, most availability happens 12 months out and then again at 6 months out.

 

[TravelTime]

I used to own Hyatt in Key West. I did not understand their points system. It was confusing compared to MVC and Vistana. So I decided to sell the week back to MVC for close to what I paid resale. MVC will need to change the points system since I assume both systems do it differently.

 

[travelhacker]

The Northstar properties beat Hyatt in Tahoe handsdown. Hyatt is not in a ski resort. This is why Hyatt Tahoe is not popular during winter season, only in summer. Welk is directly in the Northstar ski resort’s village. Their units are premium and upscale.

I agree 100%. The Welk Northstar started out as a HRC location (and there are still units available in HRC there -- just a handful though). This is truthfully the only location I would be interested in trading into from Welk (but since I live in CO, I've never booked it via Hyatt even when I've seen great ski weeks available).

Cabo does look great as well. I lived in Mexico for a couple of years during the height of the cartel wars and Mexico is very low on my list of places I want to vacation in (but I admit a bias because of the violence I experienced on a seemingly weekly basis).

 

[Shankilicious]

Thanks for all the good info TUGers.

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[Shankilicious]

I'm surprised none of the commenting Hyatt owners are interested in Cabo.

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[nuwermj]

HRC legacy weeks were always traded using points. If you didn’t use your deeded week, you got X number of points based on season and unit size and “premierness” of your resort. With those points you could trade within HRC internally, or for nonHyatt units you’d trade in II. Both of those options still exist. You didn’t pay anything extra to be in this system. It *was* the system.

How much of these are rights held by the ownership of the deed and how much are benefits provided by the developer? What I'm getting at is that developers can always change the benefits they offer but they cannot change one's deeded rights. How much of the HRC system is "guaranteed" in the deed? And are the guarantees transferable with the sale of the deed?

 

[fleecer]

I'm surprised none of the commenting Hyatt owners are interested in Cabo.

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A lot of the comments here say more about different travel habits/wants and where one lives than the resorts. Welk is West Coast centric. As a SoCal native, I'd much rather go to Cabo than the haul it takes to get to The Keys or even San Antonio.

Mexico is pretty easy to trade into, but like most places not necessarily the prime months of Dec-March. And the Sirena del Mar property can't be beat for whale watching then; the views (esp from the pool) are among the best in Cabo.