HGVC's Deed Back Process

[Tamaradarann]

Ultimately having a Deedback Program benefits all that are involved with the timeshare:

- The owner that no longer wants or needs their timeshare can easily rid themselves of that financial burden rather than just stop paying their maintenance and having to deal with any consequences of that

- If the owner just stops paying their maintenance the HOA has to raise the maintenance of all owners to compensate for the loss of revenue. Members of the Board of the HOA are some of those owners, and if the maintenance gets too high it makes the resort less desirable to own.

- HGVC is extremely concerned about the image of the entire HGVC timshare system. If the maintenance of some of their resorts get too high do to the number of maintenace delinquent owners that is not good for the entire system.

 

[Eric B]

I agree with you that unpaid maintenance is a loss in revenue for the HOA not HGVC. However, the health of the timeshare program is a concern for HGVC. As you said unpaid maintenance is addressed in the "bad debt" category of the budget and the shortfall in revenue must be made up by raising the maintenancee for all owners of the resort. Raising the maintenance for all owners of the resort is not good for the financial health of the timeshare resort and could make selling weeks at that resort difficult or impossible.

I completely agree with that sentiment. It isn’t, however, loss management or mitigation. Instead it seems more like properly managing good will.

 

[Orlando789]

I have decided to try and get rid of our time share and filled in the resale form a few weeks ago - I’ve received an automated email saying they will be in touch.
I have gone in to pay my maintenance fees today and the dashboard says no fees due, the contract page show $260 but a red highlight saying I’m unable to pay this account online.

Can I safely assume cogs are turning and my fees aren’t due?

I have emailed to confirm but I don’t expect a response back before midnight US time.

Thank you

 

[Tamaradarann]

I completely agree with that sentiment. It isn’t, however, loss management or mitigation. Instead it seems more like properly managing good will.

I agree with the way you put in in "Human Terms". However, in business managing good will is to help the bottom line. Therefore, in business it is called "loss management" since it is not necessarily to make a profit it is to avoid a loss. With that said how can HGVC not look at selling a timeshare for $40,000 one day, taking it back a few years later for $0, and then selling it again for $40,000 without having to build or buy anything but a good profit making move?

 

[brp]

I have decided to try and get rid of our time share and filled in the resale form a few weeks ago - I’ve received an automated email saying they will be in touch.
I have gone in to pay my maintenance fees today and the dashboard says no fees due, the contract page show $260 but a red highlight saying I’m unable to pay this account online.

Can I safely assume cogs are turning and my fees aren’t due?

I have emailed to confirm but I don’t expect a response back before midnight US time.

Thank you

Note that, while HGVC indicate that dues are "due by Jan 1," all the properties have a grace period with no late fees, often 45 days, but there are differences (so check your docs), So, even if you don't hear by the end of today, they aren't really due in any case.

Cheers.

 

[Eric B]

I agree with the way you put in in "Human Terms". However, in business managing good will is to help the bottom line. Therefore, in business it is called "loss management" since it is not necessarily to make a profit it is to avoid a loss. With that said how can HGVC not look at selling a timeshare for $40,000 one day, taking it back a few years later for $0, and then selling it again for $40,000 without having to build or buy anything but a good profit making move?

Huh. I always thought it was limited as discussed here:

Loss Management: Meaning, Types, Examples

Loss management is a set of management practices designed to detect, identify, and prevent incidents that damage a company's revenue.

www.investopedia.com

 

[Tamaradarann]

Huh. I always thought it was limited as discussed here:

Loss Management: Meaning, Types, Examples

Loss management is a set of management practices designed to detect, identify, and prevent incidents that damage a company's revenue.

www.investopedia.com

OK, if you want to define loss management as something that damages a company's revenue, I will go there. If HGVC has resorts where the mantenance gets so high due to delinquent owners that the units can't be resold and eventually possible go bankrupt that will hurt their image as a Top Timeshare Company and hurt their revenue.

 

[Eric B]

Reasonable minds can disagree. I do agree that they ought to take back the product they sell or facilitate someone being able to resell it for sound moral reasons. I don’t believe that they view doing so as a form of loss management that will support their bottom line. It might be that they just haven’t thought of it and someone should suggest it to them.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Reasonable minds can disagree. I do agree that they ought to take back the product they sell or facilitate someone being able to resell it for sound moral reasons. I don’t believe that they view doing so as a form of loss management that will support their bottom line. It might be that they just haven’t thought of it and someone should suggest it to them.

I truly believe that HGVC is defining loss management from the owner of the timeshare's perspective, but I explained above how loss management could be looked at from HGVC perspective.

However, I think that HGVC could look at Deeding Back timeshares from a profit center perspective. Businesses look at the definition of profit as income minus costs. If the timeshares that are sold at a presentation are the result of newly constructed or purchased buildings then that cost needs to be in their profit calculation. If the timeshare is acquired(or re-acquired) from a Deedback at no cost, then the cost of acquiring the calculation does not need to be added. Their cost in marketing the timeshares is really the same as anyone who has attended a presentation knows they sell any timeshare in the system at a presentation for whatever price they set that month or day. Certainly timeshare that are acquired through Deedbacks can be sold at a lower more attractive price for the customer at the presentation and still make a nice profit since the cost of acquiring the timeshare was zero this selling time.

 

[Eric B]

I truly believe that HGVC is defining loss management from the owner of the timeshare's perspective, but I explained above how loss management could be looked at from HGVC perspective.

However, I think that HGVC could look at Deeding Back timeshares from a profit center perspective. Businesses look at the definition of profit as income minus costs. If the timeshares that are sold at a presentation are the result of newly constructed or purchased buildings then that cost needs to be in their profit calculation. If the timeshare is acquired(or re-acquired) from a Deedback at no cost, then the cost of acquiring the calculation does not need to be added. Their cost in marketing the timeshares is really the same as anyone who has attended a presentation knows they sell any timeshare in the system at a presentation for whatever price they set that month or day. Certainly timeshare that are acquired through Deedbacks can be sold at a lower more attractive price for the customer at the presentation and still make a nice profit since the cost of acquiring the timeshare was zero this selling time.

While I understand the point of view re: the ability to sell a TS that was deeded back for less than a newly built one, I don’t think it likely that a developer that seeks to maximize profit would do so. Doing so would essentially be competing against themselves. There are, of course, examples where it happens that involve bundled weeks with MVC, but they aren’t generally advertised. I’m unaware of HGV doing those types of things and think it unlikely given the purchase of DRI & BG. Their business plan seems different and doesn’t seem like it would recognize accepting deedbacks as a loss management measure it should pursue if it were to even consider it one.

 

[Tamaradarann]

While I understand the point of view re: the ability to sell a TS that was deeded back for less than a newly built one, I don’t think it likely that a developer that seeks to maximize profit would do so. Doing so would essentially be competing against themselves. There are, of course, examples where it happens that involve bundled weeks with MVC, but they aren’t generally advertised. I’m unaware of HGV doing those types of things and think it unlikely given the purchase of DRI & BG. Their business plan seems different and doesn’t seem like it would recognize accepting deedbacks as a loss management measure it should pursue if it were to even consider it one.

I won't comment on HVC overall business plan which includes the acquisition of DRI and BG. But I will say that by buying DRI and BG they bought a whole lot of inventory that was either unsold or inventory where the maintenance was not being paid by owners. so even though it was sold, in reality, there is no active owner. However, HGVC is still being treated separately and I believe most people consider their resorts somewhat better in quality.

We have gone to HGVC presentations where the sales people first offer the latest and greatest of newly built HGVC timeshares but they are willing to sell you timeshares that were built years ago for less money just to make a sale. Where did they get that inventory from? They will also offer to exchange timeshares that you own for other older timeshares to lower your maintenance for some additional money in the exchange. Where did they get that inventory from that they are giving you in the exchange? What I am suggesting is that their business model is to make money. I don't think they care how they make it.

However, they may, at this time, have more inventory than they want so that they do not want to do Deedbacks or do Deedbacks for free.

 

[dayooper]

However, they may, at this time, have more inventory than they want so that they do not want to do Deedbacks or do Deedbacks for free.

This is a big part of the issue. They have more inventory than they are selling. While there are 3 systems, they are all under one company. HGV still has to pay the MF’s on what they own. If I remember correctly, DRI alone came with four years of inventory to sell if they never bought back anything.

Throw in the cost of DRI, BG and the stock buyback (they already purchased $500 million back and have allocated another $500 to buy more) they might not have the funds to take on more MF’s.

 

[Cjasa]

Emailed portfolio services on 12/13/24 about surrendering my Orlando 1BR odd year contract. I did get a case number and some FAQs about resale, but no further contact or documents. Not sure if I did the right thing, but I didn't see the transitions email before I emailed.

I submitted the loss mitigation form, but there was no packet or anything like other users have shown. I did not pay my dues that were due 1/1/25, and my owner portal is currently showing nothing due for maintenance fees and taxes, not sure if this is due to wheels in motion on the surrender or if it's down for a day or two for them to update with the reported late fees and interest. Will report back if anything changes.

 

[Tamaradarann]

This is a big part of the issue. They have more inventory than they are selling. While there are 3 systems, they are all under one company. HGV still has to pay the MF’s on what they own. If I remember correctly, DRI alone came with four years of inventory to sell if they never bought back anything.

Throw in the cost of DRI, BG and the stock buyback (they already purchased $500 million back and have allocated another $500 to buy more) they might not have the funds to take on more MF’s.

Interesting thoughts; When one usually buys real estate the title is clear with no outstanding mortgage or taxes owed at closing. However, since this HVC was buying timeshares when they bought DRI and BG there is a combination of debts that are owed or could be owed. You mention the 4 years of unsold DRI inventory that they need to pay maintenance on. There must be some BG unsold inventory also.

Then there is the burden of delinquent maintenance of DRI and BG owners. While they are not obligated to take on those costs the remaining maintenance paying owners needs to absorb that obligation which makes their maintenance higher. Maintenance getting too high can lead to more owners not paying their maintenance and if the maintenance gets too high buying and owning of those timeshare weeks can be prohibitively expensive and difficult to sell.

 

[Lorias]

That is sad news. It matches what some have recently experienced but also contradicts what others have recently experienced.
We all wonder if the different experiences have to do with unit size/location.

Would you mind sharing every detail of your conversation?
Did you mention to them they have done the same for others?
Did they tell you to try to use 'their' resale department?

They said that my maintenance fees were paid that that I should use the points for bookings. I told them I couldn't find good value for the cost of the points. They said their staff could help me with that, but I told them I don't want to pay reservation fees for using the phone service. I didn't push it other than that. I did tell them that I won't be giving Hilton another penny. The caller said he would note that I had said that. However, since then I have made a booking and am planning to make another to spend all the current points. Incidentally, they did bill me for 2025 maintenance fees this week. He might have said something about the resale department. I don't recall for sure.

 

[romerc]

I have been reading this information for the past few days and emailed Portfolio Service requesting the option for Voluntary Surrender / Deed-Back. I understand that it takes time to hear back for an answer; however, is there a confirmation that the email was received? Or do I just need to wait to hear back from Portfolio Service about their decision? Thank you for your help. This site has been so informative.

Here is a quick update on where I am in the process. Thank you brial05 and TUGBrian for the information. Before I could even follow your suggestion, we got a call from Loss Mitigation. They told me there were only three scenarios I could follow:

1. Dead Back - This is only possible when you first buy a contract. Usually within 3-7 days. We have had the property for over 20 years.
2. Resell - We had no interest in this based on the information we learned from this site.
3. Voluntary Surender - We chose this. We are elderly, no longer traveling, we do not want to pass on to heirs, our loan is paid off, and we are up to date on dues. They sent the paperwork that TUGBrian mentioned, and we completed as he suggested. We completed a package for each week we owned. This was done 12/30. They told me it would take a couple of weeks to hear back. I was not given a case ID. With it being the new year, I suspect we will have to pay this year's dues. I am hoping we don't.

I will update again.

 

[TUGBrian]

no idea why someone would tell you a deedback is only possible when you first buy. that process is called rescission or cancellation, not deedback.

option 3 would be the deedback process....the industry loves to use catchy terminology though like "owner update" and "vacation ownership" vs sales pitch and timeshare!

either way, im happy you were able to utilize option 3 to give your ownerships back...regardless of what they are calling it =)

 

[brial05]

Here is a quick update on where I am in the process. Thank you brial05 and TUGBrian for the information. Before I could even follow your suggestion, we got a call from Loss Mitigation. They told me there were only three scenarios I could follow:

1. Dead Back - This is only possible when you first buy a contract. Usually within 3-7 days. We have had the property for over 20 years.
2. Resell - We had no interest in this based on the information we learned from this site.
3. Voluntary Surender - We chose this. We are elderly, no longer traveling, we do not want to pass on to heirs, our loan is paid off, and we are up to date on dues. They sent the paperwork that TUGBrian mentioned, and we completed as he suggested. We completed a package for each week we owned. This was done 12/30. They told me it would take a couple of weeks to hear back. I was not given a case ID. With it being the new year, I suspect we will have to pay this year's dues. I am hoping we don't.

I will update again.

Thanks for the information!

I do believe I did mention some time ago and I confess I may have morphed my words a few times, but I do know that I mentioned that Hilton was very picky about using the phrase "Warranty Deed Surender".

I know in the screen capture I shared I used this language vs. Deed Back.

I do know it a post long another in another thread I mentioned the same that I was told to say "Surrender" and "Warranty Deed".

Could it be if people say 'Deed back' that Hilton goes to the default 'NO'.

This would make sense as someone else I remember saying 'Hilton said I've had to unit too long for a Deed back.'

 

[GT75]

@romerc, yes please do keep us informed in order to help others. Thank you for circling back. And I do hope that this works out for you (and others).

 

[TUGBrian]

will say that the term deedback is not official in any way shape or form vs simply just a made up term to describe the process of surrendering your ownership (usually a deed) back to the resort. its just a generic reference to the process of surrendering your ownership (whatever it may be) back to the resort directly!

Im a bit baffled why it would be confused with rescission, as a person certainly isnt actually added to the deed (and or the filing/paperwork/etc process) within the first few days after signing your contract...thus there is no real deedback vs preventing you from even becoming an owner in the first place. but its not the most bizarre thing someone has reported in the timeshare world! I could probably fill a book with all the head scratchers this industry has come up with.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Here is a quick update on where I am in the process. Thank you brial05 and TUGBrian for the information. Before I could even follow your suggestion, we got a call from Loss Mitigation. They told me there were only three scenarios I could follow:

1. Dead Back - This is only possible when you first buy a contract. Usually within 3-7 days. We have had the property for over 20 years.
2. Resell - We had no interest in this based on the information we learned from this site.
3. Voluntary Surender - We chose this. We are elderly, no longer traveling, we do not want to pass on to heirs, our loan is paid off, and we are up to date on dues. They sent the paperwork that TUGBrian mentioned, and we completed as he suggested. We completed a package for each week we owned. This was done 12/30. They told me it would take a couple of weeks to hear back. I was not given a case ID. With it being the new year, I suspect we will have to pay this year's dues. I am hoping we don't.

I will update again.

OK, so instead of as we have been calling it a Deedback, we need to call it a Voluntary Surrender. I like it. We are in a similar situation to you. We had 7 timeshares and are now in our mid 70's and while we are still travelling we are travelling less ,and since we now live in a Condo in Honolulu where we always used most of our points, we want to lower our timeshare maintenance as we age and rid ourselves of all of them when we can no longer travel.

 

[AnnP]

Thanks for the information!

I do believe I did mention some time ago and I confess I may have morphed my words a few times, but I do know that I mentioned that Hilton was very picky about using the phrase "Warranty Deed Surender".

I know in the screen capture I shared I used this language vs. Deed Back.

I do know it a post long another in another thread I mentioned the same that I was told to say "Surrender" and "Warranty Deed".

Could it be if people say 'Deed back' that Hilton goes to the default 'NO'.

This would make sense as someone else I remember saying 'Hilton said I've had to unit too long for a Deed back.'

Hello - I'm new to TUG and appreciate all the help. Anyone have intel on deeding back a studio at Hilton Club NY 8,000 points? Thank you.

 

[Cjasa]

Emailed portfolio services on 12/13/24 about surrendering my Orlando 1BR odd year contract. I did get a case number and some FAQs about resale, but no further contact or documents. Not sure if I did the right thing, but I didn't see the transitions email before I emailed.

I submitted the loss mitigation form, but there was no packet or anything like other users have shown. I did not pay my dues that were due 1/1/25, and my owner portal is currently showing nothing due for maintenance fees and taxes, not sure if this is due to wheels in motion on the surrender or if it's down for a day or two for them to update with the reported late fees and interest. Will report back if anything changes.

Update from HGV Transitions:
"Your account showing here on my end is HGVC Mandatory Legacy, for further assistance about cancelling your membership you will need to call 407-214-6385."

Lame, I was hoping to avoid a phone call, but perhaps this is not a terrible thing. I guess I'll call whenever I get a free minute during business hours.

 

[amy241]

Does anyone know if they will take back affiliate properties?

 

[Tamaradarann]

Does anyone know if they will take back affiliate properties?

I don't know but if it is an affiliate then the property was not sold by HGVC and HGVC doesn't sell that property why would they? The incentive for HGVC to take back a timeshare is that they can then sell it again and also they are trying to keep the maintenace down for the owners of the properties that they sell so that HGVC properties continue to be a good buy for perspective new customers and in partcular also repeat customers when they get owners to do owner's updates. At owner's updates current owners are constantly looking to continue to be owners but pay lower maintenance. I know we went to a number of owner updates with that in mind.