Expert report predicts up to two more years of pandemic misery

[davidvel]

It's much easier for someone who is retired, with no need to go out to earn a living and support their family (feed them, have a roof over their head) to tell others to stay home and shut down the world. All while ignoring that there are so many things that cause as many deaths or more every year that we don't shut down the world for.

 

[Luanne]

It's much easier for someone who is retired, with no need to go out to earn a living and support their family (feed them, have a roof over their head) to tell others to stay home and shut down the world. All while ignoring that there are so many things that cause as many deaths or more every year that we don't shut down the world for.

It's probably also "easier" for those on the front line, the health care workers, those who are working face to face as essential workers to tell others to stay home and shut down.

 

[DannyTS]

It's probably also "easier" for those on the front line, the health care workers, those who are working face to face as essential workers to tell others to stay home and shut down.

The health care workers have a very diverse opinion about this because they know the economy cannot be shut down forever and still have a health care system that functions.
Other essential workers are asking why they have to risk their health every day and put their families in danger while others claim they cannot go back to work until everything is "100% safe" and still collect a paycheck for staying home (not referring to the retired people of course)

 

[WVBaker]

[political]

 

[Brett]

[political]

 

[WVBaker]

[quote of deleted post]

 

[DannyTS]

A lot of states will have to issue bonds or lay off hundreds of thousands of people to get by.

California Governor: Expect Budget Gap in ‘Tens of Billions’

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Brett]

A lot of states will have to issue bonds or lay off hundreds of thousands of people to get by.
California Governor: Expect Budget Gap in ‘Tens of Billions’

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

yes, for sure ---- there's going to be plenty of "budget . .gaps" for many years - federal and state

 

[TravelTime]

A lot of states will have to issue bonds or lay off hundreds of thousands of people to get by.

California Governor: Expect Budget Gap in ‘Tens of Billions’

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Or get rid of the generous California pensions.

 

[Brett]

Or get rid of the generous California pensions.

That would certainly help

But then those (lost) pension holders would want generous apple stock options !

 

[TravelTime]

In the end, one way or another, everyone will be paying with their pocketbooks for the shutdowns. Not saying the shutdowns should not happen but I do not want to hear whining later when we need to cut back.

 

[Panina]

It's much easier for someone who is retired, with no need to go out to earn a living and support their family (feed them, have a roof over their head) to tell others to stay home and shut down the world. All while ignoring that there are so many things that cause as many deaths or more every year that we don't shut down the world for.

It's probably also "easier" for those on the front line, the health care workers, those who are working face to face as essential workers to tell others to stay home and shut down.

This is not easy for anyone. Each of us has a part to act responsibly and unselfishly imo. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. There needs to be a balance. Just because things open doesn’t mean the risk is lower. It means we want to move the economy in the safest way possible as the risk continues.

So why is it a problem for many that don’t want to do their part and wear a mask? keep their distance? The more I read the more I am convinced it helps.

 

[Brett]

In the end, one way or another, everyone will be paying with their pocketbooks for the shutdowns. Not saying the shutdowns should not happen but I do not want to hear whining later when we need to cut back.

yes, everyone will be paying with their pocketbooks now and in the future
There will probably be some whining ....

 

[Cornell]

Words of advice I was once given. Divorce isn't such a tragedy. A tragedy is staying in an unhappy marriage and teaching your children the wrong things about love.

The ever enduring Fred Rogers once wrote, "For a couple with young children, divorce seldom comes as a "solution" to stress, only as a way to end one form of pain and accept another."

Thank you for your kind & thoughtful words. My daughter & I have a very special relationship b/c we have been through so, so , so much together. That's the beauty in all of this. Our life is very peaceful. The chaotic & scary times are now starting to feel like an old memory.

 

[Monykalyn]

As with any new strain of virus pandemics don't go away quietly. The estimated deaths from the first year of H1N1 ended up being estimated much higher. I guess because it was "just" the flu people don't think of it as deadly. AND that one targeted younger people -my oldest-at the time immunocompromised-got it. She is fine-but there were no calls to shut down the country... CV19 appears to be easier to transmit/spread-but it is still too early to calculate actual mortality rate as we are only capturing a fraction of the cases. Heck CDC even upped their death tally of the bad flu season a couple years ago to over 80K-and the bulk of flu season is 3-4 months, and that is WITH a vaccine and treatments. Over the course of a couple years it won't be surprising to see numbers (cases/fatalities) go up. What will be interesting is when good serology tests come online (and there are a few with high specificity and accuracy) just how far this has spread.

lack of PPE and other things needed to treat people would, to me at least, mean facilities were overwhelmed.

Absolutely! PPE is/was a huge concern. And this really needs to be addressed.

We all should be asking our leaders why, five months into this, we're not awash in testing materials, kits, and results. And PPE -- where the hell is it?

THis this this this!! Protest by writing/calling/tweeting/whatever you want to do asking this question over and over and over. Do not accept vague answers. Hound your local news to do the same.

Actually, I stole some of my comments directly from a group of 85+ yo men talking at a local senior facility. They are not allowed to leave their rooms, but still have chat available. They are very vocal with the comparisons. (A number of covid deaths there has not seemed to change their opinion)

yeah no one stopped to ask them-as we locked them away and took away all their daily pleasures (communal meals, activities, outings) if they wanted this, especially if it is going to last months and months (a possibility if states are slow to move through the phases).

So far, I've been working my usual job. But sure enough on Friday layoffs were announced. I'm safe for now. But it's starting. The anxiety of losing my job (as the sole provider) is off-the-charts.

I can't imagine this stress-but you are clearly a survivor. Hopefully the job stays in place.

 

[TravelTime]

When people start whining, we can just say at least you are alive.

 

[Monykalyn]

This is not easy for anyone. Each of us has a part to act responsibly and unselfishly imo. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. There needs to be a balance. Just because things open doesn’t mean the risk is lower. It means we want to move the economy in the safest way possible as the risk continues.

So why is it a problem for many that don’t want to do their part and wear a mask? keep their distance? The more I read the more I am convinced it helps.

Just a counterpoint here-there really isn't evidence for the cloth home made masks to stop anything at all...and limited on surgical/medical grade masks.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Advice on the use of masks in the community, during home care and in healthcare settings in the context of the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak

Interim guidance

www.who.int

 

[Panina]

Just a counterpoint here-there really isn't evidence for the cloth home made masks to stop anything at all...and limited on surgical/medical grade masks.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Advice on the use of masks in the community, during home care and in healthcare settings in the context of the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak

Interim guidance

www.who.int

If someone coughs or sneezes it has to stop some of the transmission. Some protection is better then none. It is a shame everyone that wants one can’t get a 95. It is sad we have to wear inferior products.

 

[Cornell]

Just a counterpoint here-there really isn't evidence for the cloth home made masks to stop anything at all...and limited on surgical/medical grade masks.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Advice on the use of masks in the community, during home care and in healthcare settings in the context of the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak

Interim guidance

www.who.int

This is really interesting. And confusing. So much conflicting advice.

Given that it’s not definitive, why do you think “mask laws” are being put in place?

 

[TravelTime]

This is really interesting. And confusing. So much conflicting advice.

Given that it’s not definitive, why do you think “mask laws” are being put in place?

I think the experts and medical doctors feel helpless about what to do so they are recommending everything they can think of, regardless of sound evidence that it works. It is like when grandma used to tell me to gargle with lemon juice or eat chicken soup.

 

[Panina]

This is really interesting. And confusing. So much conflicting advice.

Given that it’s not definitive, why do you think “mask laws” are being put in place?

For every article that say nothing definite you will find others that believe the opposite.

Because something is not definite should we assume it doesn’t help?

Your commuting on a bus . The person next to you has a strong sneeze, you feel wetness hit you. Having the mask on, the sneeze of that person would probably not reach you. You having a mask on, would it give you some protection? What if later on we find out definitely that the mask would have decreased transmission. Do we have more more to gain if we wear the mask or do we have more to lose if we don’t? With so much unknown, the best educated guesses need to be made.

 

[Panina]

I think the experts and medical doctors feel helpless about what to do so they are recommending everything they can think of, regardless of sound evidence that it works. It is like when grandma used to tell me to gargle with lemon juice or eat chicken soup.

And now there are studies that show chicken soup helps.

 

[DannyTS]

Bill Maher interviewes New York Times columnist and MSNBC contributor Bret Stephens

(I though I posted this earlier but it seems I did not)

 

[Ken555]

As a reminder...

We still don’t have enough PPE.

There are concerns we won’t have enough meds.

We are still in the first wave, yet I keep hearing people talk about the next wave.

In most regions of the US we are doing well and have a Rt of less than 1.0. However, these states have a Rt of >1: Iowa, New Hampshire, Wyoming, South Dakota, Kansas, Minnesota, and Nebraska (see https://rt.live for current info). Of course, the concern about opening up is to do it in a manner which keeps the Rt <1 and as it increases then SIP orders will need to be given yet again. We are entering the dance part of the hammer and dance phase of the pandemic.

We should also keep in mind that African Americans and Native Americans have been disproportionately impacted by C19. For example, in Chicago 32% of the infected are African American yet 67% of the dead in the city are black. As we consider opening up, we should be aware that certain segments of our country are adversely impacted much more so than others.

I don’t know anyone talking about waiting until this is 100% contained before opening up, so not sure why this thread is referencing that as a supposed standard. Most Governors, if not all, have published their requirements for opening up. Whether you agree with them or not is a different matter altogether.


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[Ken555]

And now there are studies that show chicken soup helps.

Chicken soup *always* helps.


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