Electric Vehicles Climb to 10% Of New Cars Sold

[Superchief]

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I am very confident that gas fueled cars (including hybrids) will still be very prevalent when they are old enough to drive. I think the transition will take a lot longer than many would like and I wouldn't be surprised if more focus is placed on hybrids.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

How interesting that in one of the most recent episodes of the Yellowstone series "1923" , so exactly 100 years ago, one of the characters quotes a statistic on how many people "back East" in America own an ICE car...I think it was 10%.

 

[Passepartout]

I am very confident that gas fueled cars (including hybrids) will still be very prevalent when they are old enough to drive. I think the transition will take a lot longer than many would like and I wouldn't be surprised if more focus is placed on hybrids.

When I learned to drive, the majority of cars had manual transmissions. So that's what I learned on. Nowadays, you're hard pressed to find a clutch down there on the floor.- Alongside the high beam button. Seen either of those lately?

 

[MOXJO7282]

The pace of the electric car trend is picking up rapidly. Most car companies are stating gas engine EOL dates so its coming. My son just bought a 2013 Tesla X where he gets free super charging so if he can stick to the superchargers he will have free transportation. that is pretty cool and so is the car. Even for a 2013 its futuristic. No buttons whatsoever. Just a big screen for every function.

 

[Superchief]

My point is that cars are very expensive and people are keeping them longer. Additionally, many people prefer technology they are familiar with and there is a vast network of repair shops and auto parts supply in place for traditional cars. Even if the bugs were worked out of electric cars, it will take several years to transition. A car is a lot greater investment than a phone, so there are significant financial barriers to the electric car transition. I have a 2018 Acura TLX that I will likely keep for the remainder of my driving days.

The average age of a car in the US is up to 12.2 years, a new record. How old is yours?

The average age of a car on U.S. roads is now a little over 12 years old, marking a new record, according to S&P Mobility,

www.usatoday.com

 

[ScoopKona]

Additionally, many people prefer technology they are familiar with and there is a vast network of repair shops and auto parts supply in place for traditional cars.

I prefer cars which don't break to cars which have parts available.

Here's What Happens to Tesla Electric Cars After 300,000 Miles | Digital Trends

Tesla electric cars in the Tesloop shuttle service have racked up 300,000 miles apiece. Here's what issues those cars experience after accumulating high mileage. Tesloop owns seven cars, including Tesla Model 3, Model S, and Model X electric cars. They haven't been trouble-free.

www.digitaltrends.com

 

[MrockStar]

All Cars break.

 

[Talent312]

When I learned to drive, the majority of cars had manual transmissions. So that's what I learned on. Nowadays, you're hard pressed to find a clutch down there on the floor.- Alongside the high beam button. Seen either of those lately?

I learned to drive with a manual transmission, but DW did not.
So when we rented a car in Europe, I had to do _all_ the driving.

I remember high-beam buttons, and headlight aiming devices.
I also remember rotary phones, party-lines & B/W TV's w-dials.
I guess that dates us.

 

[Brett]

I learned to drive with a manual transmission, but DW did not.
So when we rented a car in Europe, I had to do _all_ the driving.

I remember high-beam buttons, and headlight aiming devices.
I also remember rotary phones, party-lines & B/W TV's w-dials.
I guess that dates us.

Also dates me. I learned to drive with a VW beetle manual transmission - (battery under the back seat)

 

[The Colorado Kid]

The pace of the electric car trend is picking up rapidly. Most car companies are stating gas engine EOL dates so its coming. My son just bought a 2013 Tesla X where he gets free super charging so if he can stick to the superchargers he will have free transportation. that is pretty cool and so is the car. Even for a 2013 its futuristic. No buttons whatsoever. Just a big screen for every function.

Just curious if it is his only vehicle? Are these superchargers available in numbers across the US yet?

 

[Rolltydr]

Also dates me. I learned to drive with a VW beetle manual transmission - (battery under the back seat)

I had one of those, ‘66 model with a sunroof! Loved that car.

 

[PigsDad]

Just curious if it is his only vehicle? Are these superchargers available in numbers across the US yet?

A quick Google search came up with this map of Tesla Superchargers:

Kurt

 

[MOXJO7282]

Just curious if it is his only vehicle? Are these superchargers available in numbers across the US yet?

My son says that they are available out in the market. I'm considering trading in my gas guzzling Range Rover for one myself. He puts a 100 plus miles a day on his car at no cost. Pretty amazing.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

My son says that they are available out in the market. I'm considering trading in my gas guzzling Range Rover for one myself. He puts a 100 plus miles a day on his car at no cost. Pretty amazing.

I love the idea of free driving wow! I have read some articles of the challenges of longer range driving due to being able to find working charging stations or ones not inundated with other drivers. Obviously a work in progress.

 

[VegasBella]

I am very confident that gas fueled cars (including hybrids) will still be very prevalent when they are old enough to drive. I think the transition will take a lot longer than many would like and I wouldn't be surprised if more focus is placed on hybrids.

I agree with you that the transition will take a while. I also think there will be a segment of stanch hold-outs who just like gas.
But I disagree with you about hybrids. I think those will likely phase out entirely. Instead, you see a few hybrid-engineered features being added to gas cars to increase efficiency but never to run entirely on battery.
The issue with hybrids is just more things that can break. Instead of being the best of both worlds, it's the worst of both worlds. Most people inclined to buy a hybrid will now just go electric.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Just curious if it is his only vehicle? Are these superchargers available in numbers across the US yet?

It depends on the vehicle - some Tesla models - particularly the older models - offered unlimited free Tesla Supercharging for the life of the vehicle as a perk - and this benefit is sometimes transferable. The newer models generally don't offer this perk any longer - or if they do - it's only for a limited time period (like a year), and is not transferable.

In so far as the Tesla Supercharger network - it is the largest and most reliable supercharging network in the US today (and globally as well). You can learn more about it here: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

 

[VegasBella]

My son just bought a 2013 Tesla X where he gets free super charging so if he can stick to the superchargers he will have free transportation. that is pretty cool and so is the car.

I have a 2016 model S (I'm guessing his is a model S not an X) so I got in at the last bit of free supercharging. It's a very excellent perk. I generally prefer to take my Tesla on roadtrips as a result. It just reduces my overall costs.
But it does add some time to the trip. And our older cars take longer than the newer ones to charge up, plus our range is usually more limited too.

They're fun cars, though, for sure.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

I have a 2016 model S (I'm guessing his is a model S not an X) so I got in at the last bit of free supercharging. It's a very excellent perk. I generally prefer to take my Tesla on roadtrips as a result. It just reduces my overall costs.
But it does add some time to the trip. And our older cars take longer than the newer ones to charge up, plus our range is usually more limited too.

They're fun cars, though, for sure.

@VegasBella have you ever been stranded due to charging issues?

 

[Passepartout]

I agree with you that the transition will take a while. I also think there will be a segment of stanch hold-outs who just like gas.
But I disagree with you about hybrids. I think those will likely phase out entirely. Instead, you see a few hybrid-engineered features being added to gas cars to increase efficiency but never to run entirely on battery.
The issue with hybrids is just more things that can break. Instead of being the best of both worlds, it's the worst of both worlds. Most people inclined to buy a hybrid will now just go electric.

We've been hybrid since 2002. Over 250,000 miles across 3 vehicles. Not once has any of them spent a night in a shop- and the hybrid system has never let us down. All of them have had Continuously Variable transmissions. Same result. Zero downtime. It's likely that the next vehicle will be full EV, but where we live, distances- especially between high speed chargers is substantial, and so far we can't charge at our second home (apartment complex with public parking), so hybrid- or plug-in hybrid may be what we get.

Jim

 

[HitchHiker71]

All Cars break.

Yes - but considering electric motors have on average only 20 moving parts - and ICE engines typically have on average around 2000 parts - and the rate of breakdown can be directly correlated to the number of moving parts - EVs will easily outlast ICE vehicles without exception. There is simply no way to engineer 2000 moving parts to be more reliable than 20 moving parts especially for mass production.

EVs don't need to convert reciprocating motion into rotary motion because the EV's electric motor is already spinning. This leads to a 50% gain in efficiency (30% for ICE vs. 80% for EV) with only minimal friction and vibration. EVs also convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels. That said - gasoline still produces more energy on a per unit basis when compared to batteries - hence the general concern about the macro issue of producing enough electricity to power an EV fleet once the majority of consumers have moved to EVs perhaps 10-20 years from now). So is the efficiency of EV motors enough to offset the power density advantage of gasoline? Food for thought on this topic below:

In a recent post for Quora, Brian Feldman, a robotics expert and entrepreneur, offered this explanation: “Consider the Tesla Model S, which has an available 85 kWh battery and a 265 mile range. Consider a similar gas-powered car, which gets 35 mpg. Gasoline contains about 33 kWh of energy per gallon. The Tesla uses 320 Wh/mile of energy (85 kWh/265 miles). The gas powered car uses 940 Wh/mile of energy (33 kWh/35 miles). Once the energy is on board (not counting the efficiency of the power generation, oil refining, or charging), the Tesla is using only about a third as much energy as the comparable gasoline-powered car.”

 

[HitchHiker71]

I love the idea of free driving wow! I have read some articles of the challenges of longer range driving due to being able to find working charging stations or ones not inundated with other drivers. Obviously a work in progress.

This issue is primarily limited to non-Tesla charging networks that tend to have more reliability problems and aren't properly planning for volume of charging required in a particular area based upon EV market saturation in that specific local market. Tesla isn't perfect by any measure - but their charging networks are built to last - and rarely have reliability issues like many other third party charging networks. I have several good friends who have owned Tesla vehicles for years now - they have never had an issue using the Tesla Supercharger network locations and have rarely had an issue of locations being inundated with other Tesla drivers. Tesla recently announced an agreement with the current administration to open up a subset of US Supercharging stations to other EVs - so we'll see how this all works out moving forward as the Tesla network starts serving non-Tesla EVs.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Solution complexity

1 ) A lot of the world does not have the power grid quality that exists in North America

2) even in NA there are issues
Recall the regular California wild fires & P&G turning off the grid in specific areas.

3) Retro fitting urban city infrastructure .
Whose gonna pay ?

4) taxes on fuel pay to upkeep the roads we all use.

(In Canada the federal Gov. / party in power plans to mandate that all new vehicles sold in 2030 onward be EV )
Who Is going to pay the billion++ $$ dollar bill of municipal road costs ?

Let me know when .........

 

[VegasBella]

@VegasBella have you ever been stranded due to charging issues?

No I have not.
I drive regularly from Vegas to the LA area and regularly now from Vegas to Phoenix. I've also driven Vegas to Denver in my Tesla.
My suggestion is to set the range to percent rather than miles. And to arrange your travel so you don't get below 10%.

BUT... things can happen and I have felt a close to being stranded. Examples:

Last Summer on a trip back to Vegas from SoCal I received a warning about not being allowed to charge in the afternoon due to power outages/restrictions. So this basically meant that I had to charge up to 100% at my first SuperCharger rather than distributing my charges between two SuperCharging stations. And charging from 70-100% can take a really long time. Going from 20-70% is fast. But then the rate slows and it just feels like it takes forever. I was bored and annoyed having to stay there for sooo long (like 2 hours I think). And it was just sooo hot so I couldn't really go for a nice walk or anything.

Recently this Winter between Phoenix and Vegas there were serious storm warnings and hubby and Google thought I should take an alternative route than my usual. That meant added miles which also meant added charging so time added for driving AND for charging turned a 5-6 hour drive into a 8-9 hour drive. But mostly there was that surge of worry when trying to figure out the navigation of where to charge because apparently the Tesla navigation did not agree with Hubby and Google about an alternate route being best. So I had to figure that out on my own. And what was worse, I wasn't even able to avoid all the ice. But I still got enough charge and wasn't going to be stranded due to my car being EV.

In other situations I've had to slow my speed to 65 to maintain enough charge to get to the next charger. I'm always worried about what would happen if my next charger doesn't work but luckily that's never happened without warning. And now I'm seeing more chargers added along my routes so it wouldn't be as big of an issue if it did happen.

And a few times during peak use I have had to wait in line to charge. It adds time to my travel day and it's annoying but it's usually just 15-30 minutes added, not hours.

And twice I've been "iced" which is where an ICE car (gas car) parks in your charging parking place to block EVs from charging. But luckily those times I have found alternatives.

 

[emeryjre]

I have mentioned before that EV's have a sweet spot in the transportation market at this point. Commute to work from home. Back to home from work. Set your 220Volt charger to power up and charge vehicle overnight during off peak hours. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. It is the demand from consumers for greater travel range and going past the commute that is pushing some of the advancements in battery technology and additional charging stations. The advancement in battery technology of the Sodium battery is one I personally find most interesting. Sodium substitute for Lithium will greatly reduce the cost and environmental impact of EV batteries. They fast charge, do not present a fire danger, do not lose capacity in cold are just a few of the advantages. VW has introduced an EV with Sodium batteries in China. Cost is 10,000 dollars. Only has a range of 150 miles, but will fast charge in 10 minutes. Demand is high. 3 years from now, the EV market will look completely different than it does today. PS. I do not own an EV. My primary driver is a Prius plug in.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I have mentioned before that EV's have a sweet spot in the transportation market at this point. Commute to work from home. Back to home from work. Set your 220Volt charger to power up and charge vehicle overnight during off peak hours. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. It is the demand from consumers for greater travel range and going past the commute that is pushing some of the advancements in battery technology and additional charging stations. The advancement in battery technology of the Sodium battery is one I personally find most interesting. Sodium substitute for Lithium will greatly reduce the cost and environmental impact of EV batteries. They fast charge, do not present a fire danger, do not lose capacity in cold are just a few of the advantages. VW has introduced an EV with Sodium batteries in China. Cost is 10,000 dollars. Only has a range of 150 miles, but will fast charge in 10 minutes. Demand is high. 3 years from now, the EV market will look completely different than it does today. PS. I do not own an EV. My primary driver is a Prius plug in.

The core problem with sodium batteries right now is lower energy density from the core material. Producers are hard at work trying to figure out ways to increase energy density - but lithium will always have a higher energy density than sodium at the end of the day. This tends to work better in China because of various demographic differences - I'm not so sure it'll catch on as quickly here in the US but only time will tell. There are many promising technological improvements for all battery types currently in development and some have already been deployed. For example, all of the Standard Range (and Plus) Tesla Model 3's now ship with LFP batteries - or Lithium Iron Phosphate - which doesn't have any of the precious metals such as Cobalt or Nickel for example - that are more rare an more difficult to mine. LFP batteries enjoy the same benefits as Sodium - they don't lose charging efficiency over time (they drop to about 90% and stay at 90% for the life of the battery) - they don't lose efficiency/charge in the cold nearly as much - and they charge more quickly (less resistance) - but they are less energy dense so the range is lower.