Definitive (I believe) answers to some important points program questions

[BocaBum99]

The only significant difference is that some weeks owners might choose to enroll in the new program and trade the use of their weeks for Club points. That means more competition for those traded weeks from points but an equal lesser level of competition from the weeks owners who traded for points.

The above is exactly why I believe there will be increased competition for prime weeks. Before points, the competitors are other owners who don't necessarily know what they are doing. They may wait until 5 months prior to check in to book their unit. With points, that same unit is now actively managed by Marriott who will attempt to book a prime unit 1 micro second after the 13 or 12 month mark. They can get into the call queue ahead of every other owner even as the phone lines open. It is trivial to set up the PBX to accept calls in this way.

Even if they do it a bit more fair and assign a random variable that more evenly distributes assignment times, Marriott will in no way go back and track the prior history of the weeks owner's booking habits and adjust downward the booking interval for a given week assigned to a points owner. Therefore, even when Marriott is trying to be a bit more fair than putting all of their managed clients at the front of the line, the relative reservation position of an average weeks owner will decline.

This can easily be modeled in a simulation. I feel pretty confident that my conclusion will prove out.

 

[BocaBum99]

You are making two large assumptions:

1.) Marriott is going to find a way to let the points owners get their weeks before weeks owners. This is a very PerryM like statement about the corporation being out to screw the little guy. I don't see it...but nothing I can say will convince you. I don't think Marriott is trying to screw the weeks owners and I think they still want to keep us happy so that we may eventually join their program when we see that the flexibiilty is nice but our old system still works.

2.) You are also assuming that the points owners who take the places of weeks owners want the prime weeks more than the weeks owners that they replaced. Why would you assume that? The points system penalizes you for trying for prime weeks. Frankly, if I convert, I am going to look for EVERY opportunity to take the lower points weeks so that I can stretch my points. Why would you assume that everyone is going to try to get the TOP weeks which will suck up all of their points. If they want prime weeks, they should reserve a good week at home resort and use Interval for a fair trade.

1) Actually, that is NOT my assumption. See my example above. Marriott will substituting less competitive weeks bookers with highly competitive points owners. I highly doubt that Marriott will look at the booking history of a given weeks owner, declare that they are a late booker and make the points owner wait until the 5 month mark before requesting a week.

2) There has proven to be an unlimited demand of MOC in the summer. The platinum season is too large. So, even though the summer point value will be increased at MOC, I believe a stock out situation will continue to occur even with those high values. As a result, incremental demand will leak into the system for prime weeks. Therefore, the intensity of competition will increase for summer weeks at MOC. This assumes that Marriott uses a lottery method for assigning weeks as a best case. I doubt they will use the best case for reasons I explain in 1) above.

I feel pretty confident that Marriott will be putting its finger on the scale. There is plenty of evidence that this is the case. Just look at skim. That is the most egregious example I've ever seen.

If you believe that there won't be increased competition, I think you are too altruistic. Resort Developers ALWAYS depreciate ownerships even in markets when real estate is booming. If Marriott wanted a fair exchange system, they would have designed a completely different system.

 

[RedDogSD]

This really comes down to how Marriott decides to get weeks to put into their points pool.

Boca,you are saying that they might be pulling those weeks within seconds of the 13 and 12 month marks. I think that depends if they are going to try to "stock up" the inventory before they have requests.

Let me build my model. Take a look, and tell me which way you think they will go.

For all of my examples, we have a resort with 100 units, and there are 10 weeks in the season. Those ten weeks are the last 3 weeks in June, 4 weeks in July and the first 3 weeks in August. That gives us 1000 weeks in the system. 10% of the owners in this resort will trade for points or MR points. I am assuming that Marriott does not own anything here for simplicity. So, 100 weeks available to grab for the points pool.

Model #1. Marriott will NOT wait for requests from Points owners in order to grab weeks. They will just grab what they consider to be the best weeks and then swap them when they need to.

In this example, they grab 50 units for 4th of July week at 13 months, and 50 units at 12 months.

In this example, all 100 of the 4th of July weeks are gone and none of the weeks owners got to have them.

Now, Marriott will get requests from Points owners for all of the 10 weeks in the season. How will they deal with that? Will they put weeks back into inventory and pull one out since they can only have 100 total weeks. Will they trade them with Interval (seems silly). Sure, their 4th of July is the strongest trader out there, but why would they want to deal with II when they can just pull the inventory that they want?

Model #2, which I think is more likely.

Same assumptions. I think they will basically allocate 10% of each week into their points pool and make it available for reservation by points owners. Then, they can break down the week into individual days for points users who do not want the whole week, rent out the weekends, etc.

Inevitably, they will get more requests for some weeks over others. In those cases, I think they will do some internal trading to match some of those requests. So, say that they did not get requests for 30% of the weeks in the first 3 weeks that they were available. So, they have some excess. They can give them back to the weeks pool if they want, but they might need to keep them in the pool for those owners who request them later. Marriott does not expect their points owners to only request at 13 and 12 months. In this situation, they might pull more than 10% of the 4th of July weeks, but I don't think it will be enough to matter that much since they will still have to take requests for the other summer weeks When we get to the point where 50% of weeks at a traditional resort are traded in for points or MR points, then the risk of Marriott taking more than its fair share of the prime weeks is a real concern. Until then, they will probably take whatever percentage they are entitled to, and a bit more. They already were doing that....but they would rent them out instead of giving them to points owners.

 

[davidvel]

Either one of these theoretical models would violate the CCRs at my resort.

 

[BocaBum99]

This really comes down to how Marriott decides to get weeks to put into their points pool.

Boca,you are saying that they might be pulling those weeks within seconds of the 13 and 12 month marks. I think that depends if they are going to try to "stock up" the inventory before they have requests.

Let me build my model. Take a look, and tell me which way you think they will go.

For all of my examples, we have a resort with 100 units, and there are 10 weeks in the season. Those ten weeks are the last 3 weeks in June, 4 weeks in July and the first 3 weeks in August. That gives us 1000 weeks in the system. 10% of the owners in this resort will trade for points or MR points. I am assuming that Marriott does not own anything here for simplicity. So, 100 weeks available to grab for the points pool.

Model #1. Marriott will NOT wait for requests from Points owners in order to grab weeks. They will just grab what they consider to be the best weeks and then swap them when they need to.

In this example, they grab 50 units for 4th of July week at 13 months, and 50 units at 12 months.

In this example, all 100 of the 4th of July weeks are gone and none of the weeks owners got to have them.

Now, Marriott will get requests from Points owners for all of the 10 weeks in the season. How will they deal with that? Will they put weeks back into inventory and pull one out since they can only have 100 total weeks. Will they trade them with Interval (seems silly). Sure, their 4th of July is the strongest trader out there, but why would they want to deal with II when they can just pull the inventory that they want?

Model #2, which I think is more likely.

Same assumptions. I think they will basically allocate 10% of each week into their points pool and make it available for reservation by points owners. Then, they can break down the week into individual days for points users who do not want the whole week, rent out the weekends, etc.

Inevitably, they will get more requests for some weeks over others. In those cases, I think they will do some internal trading to match some of those requests. So, say that they did not get requests for 30% of the weeks in the first 3 weeks that they were available. So, they have some excess. They can give them back to the weeks pool if they want, but they might need to keep them in the pool for those owners who request them later. Marriott does not expect their points owners to only request at 13 and 12 months. In this situation, they might pull more than 10% of the 4th of July weeks, but I don't think it will be enough to matter that much since they will still have to take requests for the other summer weeks When we get to the point where 50% of weeks at a traditional resort are traded in for points or MR points, then the risk of Marriott taking more than its fair share of the prime weeks is a real concern. Until then, they will probably take whatever percentage they are entitled to, and a bit more. They already were doing that....but they would rent them out instead of giving them to points owners.

No, I don't think they will do either of your models. I believe they will do a third. Marriott is in a situation where they are selling across all resorts, equal access to all resorts and all seasons via a point system. Wherever you buy, that's effectively your home resort. You want to go to MOC every year, no problem. Join points. This is true even when Marriott has no deeds at MOC. That's why you pay a premium for points. We get you the reservations you want. That is the superiority of points over the old weeks system. I feel pretty confident that is how Marriott will sell it even though they know they don't have the weeks in inventory to satisfy the demand they are creating. They are creating an expectation imbalance that they will have to address and they will do it via the types of tools I am suggesting. I guarantee it.

So, what they will do instead, is try to stay ahead of the curve by proactively managing and monitoring and estimating demand for each week by various historical trends. They will build a predictive model for demand. They will see a gap in their supply and demand analysis and they will implement inventory acquisition strategies within the rules specified to protect weeks owners and honor the II affiliation agreement. Of course, those affiliation agreements will be written in a way that Marriott can say technically that the rules are equal across all parties including Marriott. However, the rules for exchange in terms of visibility and action will be such that Marriott requests will be advantaged in ways that I describe. Everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others.

There is no way that Marriott is going to say, wow, we have 100 units and 10 owners in 10 platinum weeks, so we are going to request 1 unit of every week in the platinum season. That would be the most trivial and brain dead inventory management program ever. They may start that way, but as they evolve, I guarantee that they will improve on it. That is what inventory managers do. That's what I do in my business. I don't go and say, hey, I need the same number of weeks in every resort for every season. I predict based on historical records and my belief of the next and upcoming season to acquire inventory for my clients. Marriott will be no different only they will be more sophisticated in their modelling so that they can be better at matching supply and demand.

Now, think about this scenario for a moment. You are the Marriott VP of Product Management. You are confronted with a situation where you have an imbalance of expectations created by your product model. You have a stock out situation in MOC. What do you do? Do you try to be fair and allow weeks owners to have their priority in reservations and just tell owner services and the sales teams that it's just the way it is, live with the complaints of points owners who are not getting their exchanges. Or, are you going to tip the scale in favor of the client base who is going to give you future sales? Hmm. Future sales or past customer satisfaction. Your bonus is based on sales results. Which side are you going to favor? I spent a 20 year career launching new products and services. These are the real issues facing product managers and I can tell you that product managers do what they are compensated to do. And, the timeshare industry is driven and controlled by the sales force. If the sales force is losing sales because points owners aren't getting exchanges they want, they will put immense pressure on the product shop to give them what they want. And, they will win the internal corporate battle of deciding between new sales and prior customer satisfaction.

 

[hotcoffee]

I dont think points owners will have a "huge advantage", I am just not looking forward to competing with all of them at 13 months for the 50% of prime week inventory that had formerly been set aside only for multiple week owners. Even on an even playing field, increased competition is increased competition.

That said, I dont think you're going to find that it is particularly easy to snag prime weeks in points, either.

I plan to enroll. I'm also hoping that in the beginning we will have some exchange advantage because there are more pots to pull inventory from. But, some years down the road, there may or may not be much of an exchange advantage. It depends upon how much additional inventory Marriott can acquire. I'm gambling that there will be at least some ongoing advantage over just depositing my week in II. In any event, for me it is not a bad deal because, as a resale owner, it puts me back into equality with developer purchasers. I will be able to make use of MRPs. I also might be able to take 2-week vacations like I used to do prior to buying my timeshare.

I'm starting to get weary over all of the hysteria and speculation being expressed in this thread and some of the others. I doubt that Marriott is trying to screw everyone over. There is no advantage for them to do that. Some of the scenerios being described are just so unrealistic and unlikely to happen. In the final analysis we will just have to see how well the system works. If it seems to hurt those who did not join, the ones who purchased developer will still be able to enroll later.

 

[qlaval]

Dave, what about an owner who enrolled his resale weeks and then after a while (a year or two...) decide to quit the new points program. Will he lose the ability to exchange his weeks for MRP?
Also if he ever decide to rejoin the new points system after a while will he have to pay $695 or $1995 again.. (are we gone bear the "R" letter for ever...?)

 

[5infam]

If i can just chime in on how people use points...some of you have stated that people will never stay during the expensive prime weeks because it costs too many points - and others have stated that people will never trade in several years of usage (banking and borrowing) to stay just a single year. Well, I hate to admit it to you - but I am Mr. Never - in both situations.

I own DVC, which is points based only. When I first purchased, air fare to Orlando was dirt cheap, and I went every year. As air fare became more expensive, and my kids entered school, I had to bank my points and go during school breaks - thus, I used my points for Prime Expensive Weeks. I also bought when i had 2 kids, and now have 3, so i have to get 2 BDR units vs. 1 BDR before. Now, we have been several times, so what we do is go every 3 years through banking and borrowing. I go as much as 10 days if i can squeeze in some missed school for the kids, and if not, just a week. I still have value vs. renting and my maintenance/purchase price - unlike with Marriott where the maintenance fees have increased 50% since i bought my resale, and the spread vs. rentals is thin.

I can also tell you that the most expensive weeks in DVC, sell out almost immediately, and the parks are packed with people. Marriott made these weeks the most expensive for a reason, and that is supply and demand. They can get away with charging that much because there will be enough people who will be willing to pay the point cost. Trust me, I have seen it in DVC for many years. So yes, there will be people who can travel shoulder who will make some great and long trips with small point amounts; but there will be lots more willing to pay Marriott's point fee. I own at MOC; it is kid heaven in the summer when I go (usually around the 4th). Lots of people still need to travel around the school schedule - Marriott knows it - they have the stats on when they are the fullest, and have aligned their point chart to reflect just that.

 

[JimIg23]

That may be, though we haven't received any word on this yet from marriott. Even if that is the case, it potentially gives points owners a much higher proportion of those prime weeks (12.5% in your example) that the points pool bears to the overall number of weeks in platinum season (2.7% in your example), which works to the detriment of current 13 month owners.

I agree on both. We have gotten answers on some of the big questions, but not this one.

 

[hipslo]

I can also tell you that the most expensive weeks in DVC, sell out almost immediately, and the parks are packed with people. Marriott made these weeks the most expensive for a reason, and that is supply and demand. They can get away with charging that much because there will be enough people who will be willing to pay the point cost. Trust me, I have seen it in DVC for many years. So yes, there will be people who can travel shoulder who will make some great and long trips with small point amounts; but there will be lots more willing to pay Marriott's point fee. I own at MOC; it is kid heaven in the summer when I go (usually around the 4th). Lots of people still need to travel around the school schedule - Marriott knows it - they have the stats on when they are the fullest, and have aligned their point chart to reflect just that.

This does not surprise me in the least, and I am amazed that folks here seem to expect that the points system will somehow result in better availability of prime weeks. Dream on.....

 

[m61376]

This does not surprise me in the least, and I am amazed that folks here seem to expect that the points system will somehow result in better availability of prime weeks. Dream on.....

I agree- just look at which weeks sold out first in the weeks system.

I think that the biggest issue remains unanswered- whether or not the pro rata distribution of weeks/point will be based on the overall season or per week/reservation period equally. If it is per season I think it is a huge deal and really undermines Marriott's continued contention that if you use your weeks as they are nothing changes. It would be a significant impact on increased competition for peak weeks both from new point owners wanting to reserve at what may have even been sold out properties/seasons and week owners using points for that year to trade in, now having equal preference as home resort owners. Furthermore, although the issue has received little attention, the ability to rent point reservations opens up another can of worms- while potentially a nice feature for some owners, at resorts where the point allocation was significantly undervalued in comparison to rental rates, owners now have the right to reserve elsewhere in order to rent. So for those properties that were allocated less points than properties that rent for half or close to half the amount, there will likely be increased competition from savvy point owners trying to reserve those high demand weeks to rent as well as to use.

Hopefully Marriott will do the right thing by its owners and limit the percentage available to each pool evenly per week and not per season.

 

[pacheco18]

Thank you Dave.

I stayed away from TUG for a few days because there wasn't enough Tylenol in the world to stop the headache!

Your post clears up many questions. What I would like to see now (and I assume the rest of you would like as well) is a detailed FAQ from the mouth of Marriott, confirming what Dave posted and addressing the additional unanswered questions we have.

Perhaps, Dave, you could suggest that to your source.

 

[DanCali]

I agree- just look at which weeks sold out first in the weeks system.

I think that the biggest issue remains unanswered- whether or not the pro rata distribution of weeks/point will be based on the overall season or per week/reservation period equally. If it is per season I think it is a huge deal and really undermines Marriott's continued contention that if you use your weeks as they are nothing changes. It would be a significant impact on increased competition for peak weeks both from new point owners wanting to reserve at what may have even been sold out properties/seasons and week owners using points for that year to trade in, now having equal preference as home resort owners.

I couldn't agree more. The fact that Marriott avoids this issue like the plague makes me wonder even more....

Furthermore, although the issue has received little attention, the ability to rent point reservations opens up another can of worms- while potentially a nice feature for some owners, at resorts where the point allocation was significantly undervalued in comparison to rental rates, owners now have the right to reserve elsewhere in order to rent. So for those properties that were allocated less points than properties that rent for half or close to half the amount, there will likely be increased competition from savvy point owners trying to reserve those high demand weeks to rent as well as to use.

Hopefully Marriott will do the right thing by its owners and limit the percentage available to each pool evenly per week and not per season.

This is a concern I also raised earlier. It would make the old days of people reserving prime weeks to deposit in II seem like the good old days...

However, I think this concern gets mitigated is there is an ability to rent points directly. It is much easier and less risky to rent generic points on eBay than to reserve a prime week and hope to find a match. Moreover, the prime weeks are priced expensively (unless booked as home resort) so the advantage of renting weeks over points may be minimal...

My guess is that the rental market for points will settle at around $0.40-$0.45 (given that MFs are $0.40). You can book a prime 2BR in Hawaii and rent it for $2500, or you can rent 6000 points for about the same amount.

Of course, if Marriott decides the point rental market hurts its own rentals of skimmed points and they prevent points transfers among owners this concern is real. What's the status of point transfers currently?

 

[m61376]

This is a concern I also raised earlier. It would make the old days of people reserving prime weeks to deposit in II seem like the good old days...

However, I think this concern gets mitigated is there is an ability to rent points directly. It is much easier and less risky to rent generic points on eBay than to reserve a prime week and hope to find a match. Moreover, the prime weeks are priced expensively (unless booked as home resort) so the advantage of renting weeks over points may be minimal...

My guess is that the rental market for points will settle at around $0.40-$0.45 (given that MFs are $0.40). You can book a prime 2BR in Hawaii and rent it for $2500, or you can rent 6000 points for about the same amount.

Of course, if Marriott decides the point rental market hurts its own rentals of skimmed points and they prevent points transfers among owners this concern is real. What's the status of point transfers currently?

Maybe- but I think the point rental market will be lower, since you'll have week owners or point owners who will want to get rid of their leftovers.

Two years ago there were many prime weeks that easily rented for $4000; in fact, Marriott itself even gave that as rentals other than for holiday weeks at certain locations. So, there is the real possibility, and I am guessing probability, that those rates will rebound when the economy does. IF I am right, then some of those weeks may make great rentals to nab. Clearly, it's all just an educated guess on my part. But it does add another layer to consider.

I am actually surprised that they opened this loophole. On the flip side, I am sure there are many owners who will love it. Whether I think it is an issue depends upon how they ultimate regulate the week/point pools.

 

[qlaval]

...I think that the biggest issue remains unanswered- whether or not the pro rata distribution of weeks/point will be based on the overall season or per week/reservation period equally...

Exactly! Probably one of the biggest cause of concern for weeks owners....

 

[Michigan Czar]

Exactly! Probably one of the biggest cause of concern for weeks owners....

Totall agree, I will not join the points program but I am very concerned about my reservation ability being adversely impacted with the new points program. I would like to see in writing how Marriott will handle the distribution of available weeks in prime season.

 

[RBERR1]

The key question

I think the key question for now will be how many people at each resort decide to redeem for points in a given year in each given season at the resorts where Marriott does not have a lot of inventory to put into the trust.

The lower that number the easier it will be to get prime weeks in your season at your home resort.

If no platnium weeks are redeemed then no change because Marriott has no deeds.

If a lot of weeks are redeemed then competition for prime weeks with the point members for prime weeks increases significantly.

The only offset to this may be the skim and the size of it and therefore people may not have enough points to do what they want. The other possibility is if they do then may be able to do it by banking and borrowing but they can't keep it up every year because the bank of available points to one user would run dry.

The renting of points either for weeks or cash would add an interesting dimension to this and we will need to see how it works/impacts.

 

[WelcomeHome]

I think that the biggest issue remains unanswered- whether or not the pro rata distribution of weeks/point will be based on the overall season or per week/reservation period equally

I think Marriott's silence is the loudest answer you could possibly get. Marriott has no intention of using a pro rata distribution - they're going to grab whatever weeks they need to support their new program - but think of how politically incorrect would it be for them to actually come out and say it?

They only reason for them to change their position would be if enough legacy members reject their new one-sided system unless they're forced to include "enhancements" like "fairness" and "customer satisfaction" in order to attract a respectable percentage of legacy owners. That's the only way you'll see a pro rated distribution.

Best wishes,
David

 

[mikeb1]

Updated as of 10:00 a.m. EDT June 30, 2010

Can a points purchaser rent weeks obtained with point?

Marriott's response: Casual rentals by a points owner will be allowed. The language in the documents that prohibits commercial activity is to prevent the type of activity that often happens currently with owners of multiple weeks whereby they call in at 13 months, reserve many of the best weeks and then put them up for rent as a commercial enterprise.
[/b][/color]

If enrolled owners are looked at as being different than points purchaser/owner (new buyers)..then can enrolled owners who trade a week of use in for vac club points.. can they book a week, and then rent it out? Or are we going to be prohibited from that, like we are supposed to b with II from renting out an exchange we’ve made?

 

[5infam]

I'll also address this earlier post by Marilyn (m61376):I don't think you will get that confirmation, Marilyn, just as you wouldn't have been able to get a similar confirmation in the past that Marriott wouldn't try to reserve more than its fair share of weeks for (e.g.) July 4th week at a beach resort using weeks under its control.

Bottom line: It's exactly the same competition from points owners that we have had in the past from Marriott with respect to weeks that were under its control.

Hi Dave,

Thank you for the updates (just read them), and went an re-read posts #60 and #61. I quoted #61 because this is my biggest overall concern that is left with the program, as a weeks owner. You stated that it is the same competition as before, but I have doubts that is the case. Marriott will soon have lots of points owners, who's sole purpose is to look to reserve somewhere - and many will want to book at the resort I own, Maui. Up until points, Maui owners had to go through II to relinquish their week, booking a specific week and trading in, and those weeks were spread out throughout the year (yes, I already know that many booked prime weeks for trades). Now with points, you don't have to give up a specific week, and since the platinum season in Maui is weeks 1 to 50, the holiday weeks will be the first to go on requests from the points owners.

So unlike today, where Marriott may have rented out it's inventory it owned - which I doubt people were calling in for rentals exactly 1 year or more in advance, for say a 4th of July week. Now, there will be a lot of people, owners and non-owners through points, that want that 4th of July week. Now, I understand your point that there is still the same number of weeks - I get that. What I am concerned about, is how Marriott is going to fill the points requests. This is the new "competition" I am worried about. If Marriott has an automated way to fill the request before I can get in and fill my request (6:00am Pacific time, 1 year in advance); then Marriott has an unfair advantage and is in effect changing everything about my weeks ownership.

I am not a conspiracy person, I don't hate Marriott and I do appreciate all of your info Dave. If there is anyway you can ask this question of your Marriott contacts, and post whatever answer is given, that would be fantastic!!

 

[m61376]

5infam-
It's not even a matter of Marriott calling in to fulfill the requests; that's not my concern. I'm not worried about Marriott being unfair and gaming the reservation system as some have suggested- I think they're more honorable than that. It is about having many point owners or users who suddenly are making that phone call the same time as you are for those high demand weeks, who don't even own at Maui, in your example. If they aren't restricted to reserving the proportionate share of weeks allocated to points for every week, but just that they can only reserve x percentage over the entire season (in this case almost the entire year), guess when the bulk of that competition might be? I'm guessing it will be higher for those premium weeks, even though they cost more points, because some people just need to travel then.

Years ago my travel agent used to say he couldn't wait until I didn't need to travel President's week. But for many years I paid the premium because I had kids and their schedule to work around. If you need to go during school vacations, you need that time, and will pay to go then. So, despite point cost differentials, there is no way to really equalize demand. Which is why I think there has to be proportionate inventory control.

 

[5infam]

Yes, I see what you are saying. In talking with Marriott, the first rep I spoke with told me that a points person can trade their week in for points in January, a year in advance, then put in their request, more than a year in advance. So to say it clearer, come January 2011, you can trade in your 2012 week. I was told that in January 2011, you can request the time in 2012 you wanted, and would be on a waiting list. This is why I was concerned that Marriott would pull the prime weeks before I got a chance to book on line, and Marriott would do so to fullfill the points waitlist. Again, this came direct from a Marriott rep, when I called in for info.

Well after reading your post, I called back into Marriott and just spoke to another rep. She told me that yes, I could turn my 2012 week in for points on January 1, 2011. However, I still had to call in at 12 or 13 months to make my reservation. So now I understand that the competition is not Marriott pulling the weeks directly, but that it is countless numbers of points people who now have access to call in for the same week I want, at my home resort, and book a week as if they owned there.

This clarification made me feel better for about 30 seconds, then I realized I am still screwed just in a different way.

 

[SueDonJ]

Dave, don't know if this is hi-jacking your thread in some way, but if you're still asking questions and getting answers then this might be the place you'll see questions. (Maybe it's unfair to expect you to get all the answers, but it does seem that you have a pipeline to someone whose answers may be more legitimate than the reps currently answering the phones and emails.)

Is there any reason to believe that the nights stayed on DC Points will NOT be counted toward MR Elite Status, the way that nights stayed on MRP are not counted? I don't think so but it's worth checking ...

 

[davidvel]

5infam-
It's not even a matter of Marriott calling in to fulfill the requests; that's not my concern. I'm not worried about Marriott being unfair and gaming the reservation system as some have suggested- I think they're more honorable than that. It is about having many point owners or users who suddenly are making that phone call the same time as you are for those high demand weeks, who don't even own at Maui, in your example.

There are not more people calling in to reserve than otherwise would be (at least not those who can reserve the week.) In order to give a reservation to a points user, Marriott has to control the week. Someone could have called to reserve this week under the "old way", either Marriott or the owner who traded it in for points. This only applies if Marriott does not jump the gun on reservations (see below).

Well after reading your post, I called back into Marriott and just spoke to another rep. She told me that yes, I could turn my 2012 week in for points on January 1, 2011. However, I still had to call in at 12 or 13 months to make my reservation. So now I understand that the competition is not Marriott pulling the weeks directly, but that it is countless numbers of points people who now have access to call in for the same week I want, at my home resort, and book a week as if they owned there.

This clarification made me feel better for about 30 seconds, then I realized I am still screwed just in a different way.

If this is in fact how they do it (which seems logical), then it is at least somewhat less unfair than what we have feared. If a human points user has to call in then Marriott has to 1. see if they control a deed covering that week (if not waitlist them); 2. then see if the day is available to reserve.

As long as points users have to manually call in/go to internet at 12/13 months, it is no different than if the original owner who turned it in for points did the same thing under the old system.

(I am not addressing above the 12/13 month priority rules for simplification. If Marriott allows a point user to reserve at 13 months where the deed turned in only had 12 month priority THIS IS RIGGING the system in my opinion and WILL change the game.)

 

[Dean]

They can lose in unit assignments.

It is unclear HOW unit assignments will occur. I've talked to one GM that's asked for clarification from corporate as to how points owners reserving on points will be assigned and whether unit assignments will still be given final say at the local resort level as they are now. My GUESS is that those using their weeks will still be given the same priorities as they are now with points reservations coming in after weeks owners but ahead of Marriott exchangers.

Thanks Dave, very nice job, much appreciated.