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Deeded owner's rights

TraveLee

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Is there anyone who can explain how Wyndham can restrict resale purchasers access to certain facilities (IE Worldmark) when deeded owners are legally property owners (Wyndham Access owners in particular) just the same as owners who bought developer points? Legally, wouldn't they be required to treat all owners equally?
 

cbyrne1174

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Tampa, FL
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Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
Worldmark units aren't deeded into Club Wyndham at all whatsoever. You are exchanging between clubs using Club Pass. They can't legally restrict you from Club Wyndham resorts, just the Club Pass locations. If you like Worldmark and Wyndham, just buy into both clubs resale to get access to all of their properties. WorldMark is a lot easier to understand how to buy. You want to have a perfect multiple of 10,000 points because of housekeeping credits and the more you own, the less you pay per thousand. With Club Wyndham, you want to have at least 233,000 points deeded to a low maintenance fee resort because of the program fee. I would suggest buying Club Wyndham resale first at a low maintenance resort, then assessing if you need Worldmark credits added on. 10,000 WM credits = 165,000 Club Wyndham points. That's what I did and am doing.

Retail purchases are always going to be a gamble. It's how Wyndham makes the majority of its profit, so in most cases, it isn't financially in your favor. Resale owners also do get unit upgrades and point discounts. We're just last in line. Upgrades are rare, but point discounts are super common during the slow season. I got a Bonnet Creek upgrade in September '18 to a 2 bedroom unit and I also have gotten 35%-40% off at Bonnet Creek, Reunion, Panama City and Avenue Plaza this year alone. Here are some current discounts in Florida that I just searched as resale:

upload_2019-10-4_15-27-58.png
 

TraveLee

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Thank you for the answer and the 10,000=165,000 equation, it helps explain what I've been seeing online.
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
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Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
Worldmark units aren't deeded into Club Wyndham at all whatsoever. You are exchanging between clubs using Club Pass. They can't legally restrict you from Club Wyndham resorts, just the Club Pass locations. If you like Worldmark and Wyndham, just buy into both clubs resale to get access to all of their properties. WorldMark is a lot easier to understand how to buy. You want to have a perfect multiple of 10,000 points because of housekeeping credits and the more you own, the less you pay per thousand. With Club Wyndham, you want to have at least 233,000 points deeded to a low maintenance fee resort because of the program fee. I would suggest buying Club Wyndham resale first at a low maintenance resort, then assessing if you need Worldmark credits added on. 10,000 WM credits = 165,000 Club Wyndham points. That's what I did and am doing.

Retail purchases are always going to be a gamble. It's how Wyndham makes the majority of its profit, so in most cases, it isn't financially in your favor. Resale owners also do get unit upgrades and point discounts. We're just last in line. Upgrades are rare, but point discounts are super common during the slow season. I got a Bonnet Creek upgrade in September '18 to a 2 bedroom unit and I also have gotten 35%-40% off at Bonnet Creek, Reunion, Panama City and Avenue Plaza this year alone. Here are some current discounts in Florida that I just searched as resale:

View attachment 14459

Just to be clear, resale owners get upgrades if the resort decides to do it. Its not auto upgrade unless you’re VIP. Even if a resort has a 3 bedroom available, doesn’t mean they will upgrade someone who has a two bedroom to a three bedroom. So you’re chances are a lot less. That is the same for retail owners who are not VIP.


Discounts for resale and non-VIP retail owners, only happen on the deals and offers page. It changes. Sometimes it’s for any room at a specific resort. Other times it’s a specific unit type (usually studio or one bedrooms which don’t fill up as quickly). They are also available only for certain travel dates. A lot of times, that’s last minute stuff. 30-60 days out. Sometimes, they will have a wider window, but not often. For Example, Bali Hai has one that run from September to December. Also, the discount can range from 15% to 50%. VIPs are the only ones who get discounts at any Club Wyndham location, in any unit, any time of year, as long as they book within 60 days of check in.

I needed to make this clear so the OP doesn’t assume they will get upgraded and discounts at 60 days.


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dgalati

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Worldmark units aren't deeded into Club Wyndham at all whatsoever. You are exchanging between clubs using Club Pass. They can't legally restrict you from Club Wyndham resorts, just the Club Pass locations. If you like Worldmark and Wyndham, just buy into both clubs resale to get access to all of their properties. WorldMark is a lot easier to understand how to buy. You want to have a perfect multiple of 10,000 points because of housekeeping credits and the more you own, the less you pay per thousand. With Club Wyndham, you want to have at least 233,000 points deeded to a low maintenance fee resort because of the program fee. I would suggest buying Club Wyndham resale first at a low maintenance resort, then assessing if you need Worldmark credits added on. 10,000 WM credits = 165,000 Club Wyndham points. That's what I did and am doing.

Retail purchases are always going to be a gamble. It's how Wyndham makes the majority of its profit, so in most cases, it isn't financially in your favor. Resale owners also do get unit upgrades and point discounts. We're just last in line. Upgrades are rare, but point discounts are super common during the slow season. I got a Bonnet Creek upgrade in September '18 to a 2 bedroom unit and I also have gotten 35%-40% off at Bonnet Creek, Reunion, Panama City and Avenue Plaza this year alone. Here are some current discounts in Florida that I just searched as resale:

View attachment 14459
Your input on what can be had for less is greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
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Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
Is there anyone who can explain how Wyndham can restrict resale purchasers access to certain facilities (IE Worldmark) when deeded owners are legally property owners (Wyndham Access owners in particular) just the same as owners who bought developer points? Legally, wouldn't they be required to treat all owners equally?

As Cbyrne1174 said, WorldMark is an entirely different system. Club Pass is the exchange between the two. Technically, they could take away your right to exchange your points for another resort within Club Wyndham. They cannot stop you from using them at your home resort though. So if your deeded at Bonnet, they cannot stop you from using them at Bonnet. They can however, stop you from using them at any other resort such Bal Hai, Canterbury, Midtown, etc. I believe they would only do that if you do something really bad. Even if it was the same system, they do have the right to limit resale to certain resorts. Look at Diamond. They did it. Disney is limiting resale to certain resorts too.


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cbyrne1174

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Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
As Cbyrne1174 said, WorldMark is an entirely different system. Club Pass is the exchange between the two. Technically, they could take away your right to exchange your points for another resort within Club Wyndham. They cannot stop you from using them at your home resort though. So if your deeded at Bonnet, they cannot stop you from using them at Bonnet. They can however, stop you from using them at any other resort such Bal Hai, Canterbury, Midtown, etc. I believe they would only do that if you do something really bad. Even if it was the same system, they do have the right to limit resale to certain resorts. Look at Diamond. They did it. Disney is limiting resale to certain resorts too.


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They can do that, but they would more than likely grandfather the current resale owners just like Disney did. I personally would just default on my ownership if they did that, so I don't see Wyndham doing that because they would lose maintenance fees of so many owners.
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
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Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
I agree. Wouldn’t be good business to cut resale off like that. The real question, is will they take away the ability for VIPs to use their resale for discounts and upgrades. I think taking that away will have a bigger backlash then taking away cancel rebook, but I could be wrong.


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dagger1

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Location
Houston
Resorts Owned
Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch, Hyatt Main Street Station, Hyatt Ka’anapali; Marriott Ko’Olina, Marriott Waiohai; Marriott Maui Ocean Club; Wyndham CWA points, Worldmark credits.
I also agree. The day they degrade resale owners as discussed is the day they get hundreds of millions if not billions of points back, i.e., go into default. The millions of dollars per month in defaulted MF’s (which someone will have to pay) will be too much pain for Wyndham management. IMHO. I have said several times before, the minute Wyndham degrades our resale points to a point I don’t like, I will discontinue paying MF’s. They will be able to take the degraded points back and do what they want with them. Or not. When/if they decide to “screw” resale owners, they had better ready for lots of foreclosures.
 

cbyrne1174

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Tampa, FL
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Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
Most likely, the way they will correct resale is by jacking up the transfer fee to a few grand. Marriott's transfer fee is min $3,000.
 

dagger1

TUG Member
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Location
Houston
Resorts Owned
Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch, Hyatt Main Street Station, Hyatt Ka’anapali; Marriott Ko’Olina, Marriott Waiohai; Marriott Maui Ocean Club; Wyndham CWA points, Worldmark credits.
Most likely, the way they will correct resale is by jacking up the transfer fee to a few grand. Marriott's transfer fee is min $3,000.
I think that’s for Points, no? I would have to look, but the transfer fees for our floating week Marriott’s have all been less than $100. Our Hyatt’s have been $650 if I remember correctly.
 

Jan M.

TUG Member
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Location
Tamarac, FL
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach
Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Woodstone and Summit at Massanutten - Both in RCI weeks used as Wyndham PICs
Worldmark units aren't deeded into Club Wyndham at all whatsoever. You are exchanging between clubs using Club Pass. They can't legally restrict you from Club Wyndham resorts, just the Club Pass locations. If you like Worldmark and Wyndham, just buy into both clubs resale to get access to all of their properties. WorldMark is a lot easier to understand how to buy. You want to have a perfect multiple of 10,000 points because of housekeeping credits and the more you own, the less you pay per thousand. With Club Wyndham, you want to have at least 233,000 points deeded to a low maintenance fee resort because of the program fee. I would suggest buying Club Wyndham resale first at a low maintenance resort, then assessing if you need Worldmark credits added on. 10,000 WM credits = 165,000 Club Wyndham points. That's what I did and am doing.

Retail purchases are always going to be a gamble. It's how Wyndham makes the majority of its profit, so in most cases, it isn't financially in your favor. Resale owners also do get unit upgrades and point discounts. We're just last in line. Upgrades are rare, but point discounts are super common during the slow season. I got a Bonnet Creek upgrade in September '18 to a 2 bedroom unit and I also have gotten 35%-40% off at Bonnet Creek, Reunion, Panama City and Avenue Plaza this year alone. Here are some current discounts in Florida that I just searched as resale:

View attachment 14459

Are you VIP? Or are these stays Wyndham is discounting to everyone not just VIP owners?
 

dgalati

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Are you VIP? Or are these stays Wyndham is discounting to everyone not just VIP owners?
Wyndham will discount to everyone on occasion and within 30-60 days. I have bought all resale deeds and have seen it many times of a discount on original points while searching for a room.
 

cbyrne1174

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Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
Are you VIP? Or are these stays Wyndham is discounting to everyone not just VIP owners?

My searches were resale discounts. They do offer discounts to resale and non VIP owners, they are just usually weekdays during the High and value seasons. Orlando almost always has them for smaller rooms. There are a lot more discounts than what is offered on the discounts page. For example, all the PCB inventory is discounted in November.

upload_2019-10-5_15-35-58.png
 

dgalati

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I have found them on weekend stays also
 
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