COVID-19 'has NO credible natural ancestor' and WAS created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering'

[Yellowfin]

Clearly very conflicted parties conspired to convince the world of the natural origin of the virus.

Emails Reveal How Influential Articles That Established COVID-19 Natural Origins Theory Were Formed

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[bluehende]

Clearly very conflicted parties conspired to convince the world of the natural origin of the virus.

Emails Reveal How Influential Articles That Established COVID-19 Natural Origins Theory Were Formed

www.theepochtimes.com

Wonder why I am not surprised at all.

from wikipedia

The Epoch Times opposes the Chinese Communist Party,[20] promotes far-right politicians in Europe,[3][5] and has backed President Donald Trump in the U.S.;[21] a 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[18][22][23] The Epoch Media Group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccine misinformation.[18][24][25] In 2020, the New York Times called it a "global-scale misinformation machine".[21]

 

[Yellowfin]

Wonder why I am not surprised at all.

from wikipedia

The Epoch Times opposes the Chinese Communist Party,[20] promotes far-right politicians in Europe,[3][5] and has backed President Donald Trump in the U.S.;[21] a 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[18][22][23] The Epoch Media Group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccine misinformation.[18][24][25] In 2020, the New York Times called it a "global-scale misinformation machine".[21]

I had been waiting the whole day for this comment. So predictable. READ the article.

 

[bluehende]

I had been waiting the whole day for this comment. So predictable. READ the article.

Then do not post articles from sources known to purvey false information and qanon conspiracy theories.

PS your news sources are pretty predictable too. Although going full qanon is out there.

 

[Yellowfin]

Most of the media has egg on the face concerning this so they will cover as little as possible after calling it conspiracy (like yourself) so if you are waiting for your favorite papers to tell you this you will have to wait a very long time. There is a long list of conspiracies peddled by the mainstream media but this is not the time or the place to cover that.

Now that I opened your appetite let's see what you do not agree with in that article:

1) "teleconference organized by Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), and Dr. Jeremy Farrar, director of the British Wellcome Trust "

2) " An early-morning email on Feb. 6, 2020, (p. 251) obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request by U.S. Right to Know, revealed that EcoHealth President Peter Daszak drafted the letter calling for “solidarity with all scientists and health professionals in China.”

3) "This article was led by “corresponding author” Kristian Andersen, who recently deleted his entire Twitter profile, along with four other researchers. "

4) "The one author not present on the Feb. 1, 2020 Teleconference has since recanted his position. "

5) "The NASEM response was also shaped by Trevor Bedford, a computational biologist who suggested: “1. I wouldn’t mention binding sites here. If you start weighing the evidence there’s a lot to consider for both scenarios. 2. I would say ‘no evidence of genetic engineering’ full stop.”

6) "Ralph Baric, a virologist who collaborated with Wuhan Institute of Virology director Shi Zheng-Li on gain-of-function experiments, was included in early drafts of Daszak’s letter. In a Feb. 6, 2020, email Daszak wrote that there was “no need for you to sign the ‘Statement’ Ralph!!” to which Baric responded: “I also think this is a good decision. Otherwise it looks self-serving and we lose impact. Ralph "


There is a lot more in the article and all sourced from the public domain (mostly FOIA). Good luck

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

We made no effort to check the possibility of re-purposed existing drugs. Only Big Pharma pipeline drugs. Anybody in authority who suggested that was vilified for telling lies. That work was done in the 3rd world. It's still being vilified here, despite trial after trial, and the massive experiment in India ongoing now, which seems to have knocked down the new cases by around 75% in 6 weeks.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/ (vaccine rate is barely 10% currently in India.)

Masks used were ineffective. Fauci knew that in early 2020, but lied about it the whole time. (Check the FOIA released Fauci emails.) A friend of mine said cynically that "they were as effective as a chain-link fence to stopping a mosquito). The only masks that would work were N100 respirators (the ones with the chipmunk packs on the sides). They were designed to stop toxic chemicals, which are smaller than a virus. Luckily, i owned a couple before the pandemic (I keep roses - fungicides and pesticides, you know...)The use of masks in surgery are to prevent bacterial transmission (which are an order of magnitude or 2 bigger than viruses), not viruses.

And anybody that disagreed with the "Party Line" was cut off from social media for "encouraging conspiracy theories". (My sardonic comment - woke = croak.)

I know I'm skirting the permissability limit here, but 600,000 deaths, and who knows how many "long COVID" cases there are, makes me very cranky. . .

And the latest on India. Under pressure from the WHO, India has reversed course on all re-purposed drugs. No more Ivermectin, zinc, or vitamin D3. We shall see what happens to the case count over the next 4-6 weeks.

Date - June 8th.

 

[Yellowfin]

@bluehende Peter Daszak who lead the effort to convince the world of the natural evolution talking about the manipulation of “killer” SARS-like coronaviruses carried out by his “colleagues in China”

I hope that you will at least admit that those who convinced you last year of the natural evolution (with ZERO evidence) have major reasons to cover the truth. I am surprised that the congress did not asked him to testify under oath and that the FBI has not seized his documents yet.

Fauci-Funded Daszak Describes 'Colleagues In China' Manipulating Viruses Into 'Killers'

Fauci-Funded Peter Daszak Describes His 'Colleagues In China' Manipulating Viruses Into 'Killers' In Unseen Video.

rumble.com

 

["Roger"]

I don't know if this article is behind a fire wall or not, but the Wall Street Journal is reporting on a scientific article (peer reviewed) that 47,000 wild animals have been sold in the Wuhan market.

Over 47,000 Wild Animals Sold in Wuhan Markets Before Covid Outbreak, Study Shows

The new study shows 47,000 wild animals thought to be possible hosts for Covid-19 were sold in Wuhan market in 31 months before first outbreak.

www.wsj.com

Although most scientists still consider it more likely that the virus spread naturally from animals to humans, none have been able so far to find an ancestor to the virus or identify the species that might have acted as an intermediary host.​

​

The paper provides among the strongest clues yet.​

​

“It is an actual smoking gun,” said Robert Garry, a virologist at Tulane University School of Medicine, in New Orleans, who wasn’t involved in the study but is among scientists who have consistently rejected the lab hypothesis.​

​

For the record, I have read the very lengthy Vanity Fair article posted by Laura and a lengthy piece by Nicholas Wade (much longer than anything printed in the New York Times) detailing arguments that the virus had a lab origin. Their arguments are strong and I tend to favor them. However, I am keeping an open mind. The two articles that I mention, for example, largely depend upon something other than a lab origin being improbable. But when you deal with very large numbers, the improbable becomes possible. With that in mind, as I mentioned before, while I favor the lab origin view, I am not declaring that view a done deal, but waiting for people brighter than I am to investigate further and (hopefully) come to a conclusion. Hopefully others will keep an open mind too.

By the way, the Chinese don't want to acknowledge the natural origin theory either in that it reflects badly on their markets in Wuhan. They are trying to say that the virus had a foreign origin. Not something I find plausible.

 

[bluehende]

@bluehende Peter Daszak who lead the effort to convince the world of the natural evolution talking about the manipulation of “killer” SARS-like coronaviruses carried out by his “colleagues in China”

I hope that you will at least admit that those who convinced you last year of the natural evolution (with ZERO evidence) have major reasons to cover the truth. I am surprised that the congress did not asked him to testify under oath and that the FBI has not seized his documents yet.

Fauci-Funded Daszak Describes 'Colleagues In China' Manipulating Viruses Into 'Killers'

Fauci-Funded Peter Daszak Describes His 'Colleagues In China' Manipulating Viruses Into 'Killers' In Unseen Video.

rumble.com

Fauci: Personal attacks are 'distorted' and 'misleading'

Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease doctor across successive administrations, has been a frequent target of conservatives throughout the pandemic.

www.politico.com

 

[Yellowfin]

That was not an interview, more like grandma asking her grandson how come he is so smart and so handsome. No questions, no answers. The article is political and not dealing with the issues. Again for someone who always wants "evidence" we should expect more from you than posting that article.

 

[bluehende]

Fauci Hits Back at 'Anti-science' Attacks: 'It's All Nonsense'

Fauci responded to conservatives and conspiracy theorists amplifying attacks on him after the release of his emails during the Rachel Maddow interview.

www.newsweek.com

 

[bluehende]

That was not an interview, more like grandma asking her grandson how come he is so smart and so handsome. No questions, no answers. The article is political and not dealing with the issues. Again for someone who always wants "evidence" we should expect more from you than posting that article.

I know of no study that examined Dr Fauci.
But to go back to original question/ Note a scientific journal....not right wing news.

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2 - Nature Medicine

www.nature.com

It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus. As noted above, the RBD of SARS-CoV-2 is optimized for binding to human ACE2 with an efficient solution different from those previously predicted7,11. Furthermore, if genetic manipulation had been performed, one of the several reverse-genetic systems available for betacoronaviruses would probably have been used19. However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone20. Instead, we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer. We also discuss whether selection during passage could have given rise to SARS-CoV-2.

 

[Yellowfin]

Fauci Hits Back at 'Anti-science' Attacks: 'It's All Nonsense'

Fauci responded to conservatives and conspiracy theorists amplifying attacks on him after the release of his emails during the Rachel Maddow interview.

www.newsweek.com

That was the non-interview interview I was talking about. Unfortunately since he is not answering to the accusations he looks guilty.
But the issue is probably a lot bigger than Dr. Fauci who, like any bureaucrat on this planet will try to evade any responsibility. There is a lot of science in the Nicolas Wade's article and for him to talk about "anti-science" is very disingenuous.

 

[Yellowfin]

I know of no study that examined Dr Fauci.
But to go back to original question/ Note a scientific journal....not right wing news.

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2 - Nature Medicine

www.nature.com

It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus. As noted above, the RBD of SARS-CoV-2 is optimized for binding to human ACE2 with an efficient solution different from those previously predicted7,11. Furthermore, if genetic manipulation had been performed, one of the several reverse-genetic systems available for betacoronaviruses would probably have been used19. However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone20. Instead, we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer. We also discuss whether selection during passage could have given rise to SARS-CoV-2.

Did you even read it? It is from March 2020 and Nicolas Wade has covered it quite extensively already (actually he wiped the floors with it). The publication of that article was coordinated by Peter Daszak, the one who (along with Dr Fauci) funded the Wuhan lab; there are several statement that (according to Nicolas Wade) are very troubling from a scientific point of view because they do not tell the public where they have scientific proof (like zero) and when they speculate.

Come on!

 

[Brett]

.

 

[Yellowfin]

View attachment 36436

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/world/wuhan-animal-markets-covid.html


"In the two years before the pandemic began, markets in the Chinese city of Wuhan were selling nearly three dozen animal species that can harbor pathogens that jump to humans, researchers have found, shedding new light on the possible role of the wildlife trade in the coronavirus’s origins.

The researchers found sales in Wuhan of mink, palm civets and raccoon dogs, but they did not find sales of pangolins or bats, which have been suspected as possible sources of the coronavirus.

In all, the researchers documented sales of more than 47,000 animals across 38 species in Wuhan markets between May 2017 and November 2019. Thirty-three of the species have previously been infected with diseases or disease-bearing parasites that can affect humans, the researchers said.

China suspended the sale and consumption of wild animals as the coronavirus began spreading rapidly early last year. The country’s wildlife trade played a key role in the SARS outbreak in the early 2000s.

Nicolas Wade:

"The wet market connection, the major point of similarity with the SARS1 and MERS epidemics, was soon broken: Chinese researchers found earlier cases in Wuhan with no link to the wet market." [...]

"Viruses don’t just make one time jumps from one species to another. The coronavirus spike protein, adapted to attack bat cells, needs repeated jumps to another species, most of which fail, before it gains a lucky mutation. Mutation — a change in one of its RNA units — causes a different amino acid unit to be incorporated into its spike protein and makes the spike protein better able to attack the cells of some other species." [...]

"In the case of SARS1, researchers have documented the successive changes in its spike protein as the virus evolved step by step into a dangerous pathogen." [...]

"But when you look for the fingerprints of a similar transition in SARS2, a strange surprise awaits. The virus has changed hardly at all, at least until recently. From its very first appearance, it was well adapted to human cells. Researchers led by Alina Chan of the Broad Institute compared SARS2 with late stage SARS1, which by then was well adapted to human cells, and found that the two viruses were similarly well adapted. “By the time SARS-CoV-2 was first detected in late 2019, it was already pre-adapted to human transmission to an extent similar to late epidemic SARS-CoV,” they wrote."

The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?

If the case that SARS2 originated in a lab is so substantial, why isn’t this more widely known? As is now obvious, there are many people who have reason not to talk about it.

thebulletin.org

 

[Brett]

.

 

[Yellowfin]

View attachment 36437

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/world/wuhan-animal-markets-covid.html

"In the two years before the pandemic began, markets in the Chinese city of Wuhan were selling nearly three dozen animal species that can harbor pathogens that jump to humans, researchers have found, shedding new light on the possible role of the wildlife trade in the coronavirus’s origins.

The researchers found sales in Wuhan of mink, palm civets and raccoon dogs, but they did not find sales of pangolins or bats, which have been suspected as possible sources of the coronavirus.

In all, the researchers documented sales of more than 47,000 animals across 38 species in Wuhan markets between May 2017 and November 2019. Thirty-three of the species have previously been infected with diseases or disease-bearing parasites that can affect humans, the researchers said.

China suspended the sale and consumption of wild animals as the coronavirus began spreading rapidly early last year. The country’s wildlife trade played a key role in the SARS outbreak in the early 2000s. "

We all know that and this is why the idea of the wet market seemed plausible at first. The problem, as Nicolas Wade explains, the evolution of the virus should have left some traces but there are none!
"But when you look for the fingerprints of a similar transition in SARS2, a strange surprise awaits. The virus has changed hardly at all, at least until recently. From its very first appearance, it was well adapted to human cells. Researchers led by Alina Chan of the Broad Institute compared SARS2 with late stage SARS1, which by then was well adapted to human cells, and found that the two viruses were similarly well adapted. “By the time SARS-CoV-2 was first detected in late 2019, it was already pre-adapted to human transmission to an extent similar to late epidemic SARS-CoV,” they wrote."

 

[Brett]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/live-w...ore-covid-19-outbreak-study-shows-11623175415

More than 47,000 wild animals were sold in the Chinese city of Wuhan in the two and a half years before the first confirmed Covid-19 cluster was found there, a new study showed, providing critical new evidence that the coronavirus could have spread naturally from animals to humans.

The study, published in the open-access journal Scientific Reports, revealed that the wild animals, including 31 protected species, were often butchered on site in markets, and stored in the kinds of cramped, unhygienic conditions that can allow viruses to hop species.

Those animals included at least four species that scientists say can carry the Covid-19 virus—civets, mink, badgers and raccoon dogs—according to the study by researchers from the China West Normal University, the University of Oxford and Canada’s University of British Columbia.

 

[Yellowfin]

View attachment 36438

https://www.wsj.com/articles/live-w...ore-covid-19-outbreak-study-shows-11623175415

More than 47,000 wild animals were sold in the Chinese city of Wuhan in the two and a half years before the first confirmed Covid-19 cluster was found there, a new study showed, providing critical new evidence that the coronavirus could have spread naturally from animals to humans.

The study, published in the open-access journal Scientific Reports, revealed that the wild animals, including 31 protected species, were often butchered on site in markets, and stored in the kinds of cramped, unhygienic conditions that can allow viruses to hop species.

Those animals included at least four species that scientists say can carry the Covid-19 virus—civets, mink, badgers and raccoon dogs—according to the study by researchers from the China West Normal University, the University of Oxford and Canada’s University of British Columbia.

In case you did not read Nicolas Wade's article I encourage you to do it.

The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?

If the case that SARS2 originated in a lab is so substantial, why isn’t this more widely known? As is now obvious, there are many people who have reason not to talk about it.

thebulletin.org

 

[Brett]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/world/wuhan-animal-markets-covid.html


In the two years before the pandemic began, markets in the Chinese city of Wuhan were selling nearly three dozen animal species that can harbor pathogens that jump to humans, researchers have found, shedding new light on the possible role of the wildlife trade in the coronavirus’s origins.

The researchers found sales in Wuhan of mink, palm civets and raccoon dogs, but they did not find sales of pangolins or bats, which have been suspected as possible sources of the coronavirus.

In all, the researchers documented sales of more than 47,000 animals across 38 species in Wuhan markets between May 2017 and November 2019. Thirty-three of the species have previously been infected with diseases or disease-bearing parasites that can affect humans, the researchers said.

China suspended the sale and consumption of wild animals as the coronavirus began spreading rapidly early last year. The country’s wildlife trade played a key role in the SARS outbreak in the early 2000s.

A team of experts who led a World Health Organization mission to Wuhan this year examined vendor records and other evidence from the city’s animal markets. But the team reached no firm conclusions about the markets’ role in the outbreak, or about the specific species through which the coronavirus might have spread to humans.

 

[MrockStar]

?

 

[bluehende]

Nicolas Wade a common guest on....wait for it......Fox news

From his colleagues

Wade juxtaposes an incomplete and inaccurate account of our research on human genetic differences with speculation that recent natural selection has led to worldwide differences in I.Q. test results, political institutions and economic development. We reject Wade's implication that our findings substantiate his guesswork. They do not.
We are in full agreement that there is no support from the field of population genetics for Wade's conjectures.

In May of 2021, Wade published an article which advanced the claim that COVID-19 originated from a leak at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.[17][18] This claim is at odds with the prevailing view among scientists that the virus most likely has a zoonotic origin.[19][20][21][22]

One of those references

Did Covid come from a Wuhan lab? What we know so far

To China’s fury, Joe Biden has ordered a review of rival theories about lab leaks and animal hosts

www.theguardian.com

Has new evidence emerged?


Despite the Biden announcement and various stories in the US media claiming support is growing for the Wuhan lab leak theory, the answer is that surprisingly little has changed in terms of good quality evidence – at least in the public domain.

So where are we with the animal host theory?
Much has been made by some of the fact that no intermediate animal host – between humans and bats – has so far been identified, which has been cited in some places as somehow supporting the lab leak theory.


The reality is that identifying animal hosts in past coronavirus outbreaks has been a lengthy and uncertain process. While it is known that dromedaries were a major reservoir host for Mers, even now the role of the animals in transmitting the virus is poorly understood.

The same was true with the Sars outbreak. While civet cats were suspected as intermediate hosts, it took years to confirm. In neither case was there was a suggestion of a lab leak. Because of that, the model of transmission via an intermediate host has remained the predominant one under consideration.



from feb2021

SARS-CoV-2, Covid-19, and the debunking of conspiracy theories - PubMed

The emergence of a novel human coronavirus, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), has engaged considerable awareness and attention around the world. The associated disease, coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19), has now involved virtually all 200 countries. The total number...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Believers in conspiracy theories promote misinformation that the virus is not contagious, is the result of laboratory manipulation or is created to gain profit by distributing new vaccines. The most dangerous effect of this widely disseminated misinformation is it will negatively influence the attitudes and behaviours for preventive measures to contain the outbreak. In this review, I discuss common conspiracy theories associated with SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-19 and consider how we can address and counterbalance these issues based on scientific information and studies.

 

[grupp]

The thing I find interesting about this thread, whether the intend it or not, is the frequent posters seem to be cheering for one side or the other. Either they hope is came from animals or there are other wanting to have been released from the lab. Shouldn't we all just be interested in finding out the truth of what really happened? Unfortunately, truth seems to have taken a back seat to political stances in todays world.

 

[Yellowfin]

Nicolas Wade a common guest on....wait for it......Fox news

From his colleagues



In May of 2021, Wade published an article which advanced the claim that COVID-19 originated from a leak at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.[17][18] This claim is at odds with the prevailing view among scientists that the virus most likely has a zoonotic origin.[19][20][21][22]

One of those references

Did Covid come from a Wuhan lab? What we know so far

To China’s fury, Joe Biden has ordered a review of rival theories about lab leaks and animal hosts

www.theguardian.com

Has new evidence emerged?


Despite the Biden announcement and various stories in the US media claiming support is growing for the Wuhan lab leak theory, the answer is that surprisingly little has changed in terms of good quality evidence – at least in the public domain.

So where are we with the animal host theory?
Much has been made by some of the fact that no intermediate animal host – between humans and bats – has so far been identified, which has been cited in some places as somehow supporting the lab leak theory.


The reality is that identifying animal hosts in past coronavirus outbreaks has been a lengthy and uncertain process. While it is known that dromedaries were a major reservoir host for Mers, even now the role of the animals in transmitting the virus is poorly understood.

The same was true with the Sars outbreak. While civet cats were suspected as intermediate hosts, it took years to confirm. In neither case was there was a suggestion of a lab leak. Because of that, the model of transmission via an intermediate host has remained the predominant one under consideration.



from feb2021

SARS-CoV-2, Covid-19, and the debunking of conspiracy theories - PubMed

The emergence of a novel human coronavirus, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), has engaged considerable awareness and attention around the world. The associated disease, coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19), has now involved virtually all 200 countries. The total number...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Believers in conspiracy theories promote misinformation that the virus is not contagious, is the result of laboratory manipulation or is created to gain profit by distributing new vaccines. The most dangerous effect of this widely disseminated misinformation is it will negatively influence the attitudes and behaviours for preventive measures to contain the outbreak. In this review, I discuss common conspiracy theories associated with SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-19 and consider how we can address and counterbalance these issues based on scientific information and studies.

A scientific paper by nature is not political but this one uses names of US politicians and the word "conspiracy" 26 times. I guess you found what you were looking for. Scientific... not. I will not quote any of the political stuff mentioned by the Indonesian author. Just for you to understand how ridiculous his arguments are:

"It is highly unlikely that SARS-CoV-2 was accidentally released from a laboratory since no direct ancestral virus is identified in the current database. ". He is referring to the database of the Wuhan lab .

So if the Chinese were working on the manipulation of the virus to make it highly transmissible to humans they were going to post it ALL online. If HE can't see it, it means it does not exist. WOW, his logic is flawless! We already know that being true and Peter Daszak has already admitted when he talked about what his "colleagues in China" where doing. Maybe Mohamad S Hakim is the last person to find that out.

Fauci-Funded Daszak Describes 'Colleagues In China' Manipulating Viruses Into 'Killers'

Fauci-Funded Peter Daszak Describes His 'Colleagues In China' Manipulating Viruses Into 'Killers' In Unseen Video.

rumble.com