CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[dioxide45]

Anyone know how many points a Florida Vistana 2 bedroom (not lock off) will get? Today, 81,000 staroptions and 126,000 Bonvoy points. Home season says Prime and VSN Season says Gold Plus under the 'what I own'. Also, is there any indication of when official word will be send to all owners. Seems like a lot of speculation right now on some of what is being reported from these owner updates.

Unless it is posted somewhere in these 93 pages, we don't have an answer. As to when official word will come out, no one knows the exact date either. We see June 30th, July 1st, but I would expect it to happen over a weekend. Everything is still primarily speculation, there is some small bits of real information in there but they seem to get lost in the speculation.

 

[Negma]

Anyone know how many points a Florida Vistana 2 bedroom (not lock off) will get? Today, 81,000 staroptions and 126,000 Bonvoy points. Home season says Prime and VSN Season says Gold Plus under the 'what I own'. Also, is there any indication of when official word will be send to all owners. Seems like a lot of speculation right now on some of what is being reported from these owner updates.

We were told/shown SVR 81000 options = 2600 DC points

 

[damianinpa]

I just looked at their charts and 2600 is kinda Meh. For example, I was able to use my 81K Staroptions to get an OceanFront studio in Maui Westin for 1 week. I wouldn't have enough to do that in this new program. Seems somewhat undervalued. JMHO

 

[Erinaadyn]

I just looked at their charts and 2600 is kinda Meh. For example, I was able to use my 81K Staroptions to get an OceanFront studio in Maui Westin for 1 week. I wouldn't have enough to do that in this new program. Seems somewhat undervalued. JMHO

Where can you look at MVC charts?

 

[dioxide45]

Where can you look at MVC charts?

They haven't been published anywhere outside of being shown at a sales meeting.

Edit, sorry. Misunderstood you to be asking for Vistana point charts. PP provided the current charts.

 

[VacationForever]

You can look at MVC DC charts for MVC resorts but not Vistana DC charts.

 

[grgs]

Try this link for 2023 point requirements: https://vacationpointexchange.com/pointschart/points_charts_2023.pdf

 

[damianinpa]

Try this link for 2023 point requirements: https://vacationpointexchange.com/pointschart/points_charts_2023.pdf

Yeah, that is what I was looking at. I assume this chart applies for anyone who owns and Vistana owners won't have different point charts. I just took the potential 2600 points and matched up what I could get with those against this chart.

 

[VacationForever]

Yeah, that is what I was looking at. I assume this chart applies for anyone who owns and Vistana owners won't have different point charts. I just took the potential 2600 points and matched up what I could get with those against this chart.

MVC point requirements vary wildly within the same resort and across locations. MVC Orlando timeshares don't convert to many points either. We don't normally use DC for expensive points reservations and instead exchange in II. Yeah, kind of defeats the purpose of internal booking system.

We see ourselves continuing with SO reservations and the occasional II exchanges for our Vistana ownership.

 

[dioxide45]

Yeah, that is what I was looking at. I assume this chart applies for anyone who owns and Vistana owners won't have different point charts. I just took the potential 2600 points and matched up what I could get with those against this chart.

The values to book will be the same regardless of what you own. I would expect a Vistana owner booking into Grande Vista to pay the same points as a Marriott owner doing the same. What will be different, and what these charts don't show, is how many points MVC will give you for your Vistana week.

 

[TravelTime]

It certainly doesn't look like a great number for SDO 81K Gold Plus weeks. Most of those weeks can book 1-52. I can't recall the 81K Orlando number, but it looks like they pegged SDO quite a bit lower.

SDO is low. All the others are pretty good. Lagunamar is a surprise since Mexico is a cheap market to visit.

 

[VacationForever]

SDO is low. All the others are pretty good. Lagunamar is a surprise since Mexico is a cheap market to visit.

SDO original developer sale price was very low and I believe, got factored into the DC conversion value.

 

[TravelTime]

I wonder how many Maui owners are resale compared to direct buy. On TUG, I think it is skewed to resale. With the high MFs, why would a Maui resale owner want to requalify to be direct?

I own WKOVRN 2BR OF and would get 8350 DPs. With that many DPs, I could take 2-4 vacations in 2BR units with views using DPs. The MF per point only comes out to 38 cents per point. It really is a great opportunity. I suspect most WKOVR/N owners bought direct and will be thrilled with this option especially since they will have more choices, not fewer.

 

[TravelTime]

Have people with non-OF views been told they're getting 8,000+DP? I have a hard time believing that would/could happen. If you own IV I would expect more like 5500 DP based MVC resorts there.

OF people could certainly trade in for more time but it probably has to be at a lower view category, which may not be attractive to people who bought OF.

I own with MVC qualified weeks and trust points and WKOVRN 2BR OF . I only use 2BRs with views. There are many 2BR with views for 3800 - 4200 DPs in MVC. Even in Hawaii (outside of Maui), you could get a 2BR ocean view/ocean front for approx 4500 to 5500 DPs and still have DPs leftover for another vacation. So I could get a minimum of 2 vacations in 2BRs that would be better than using my unit split as a 1BR and studio. I would never stay in a studio and 1BRs do not work for my family so this option is not attractive to me. I suspect many qualified Maui owners will really like the MVC system.

I think most people on this thread are not knowledgeable about MVC. Once more qualified Vistana owners become educated about MVC, they are going to elect points. It may take a few years to get there but MVC is an excellent system. I have also owned Hyatt and Disney (many many points with Disney). I sold them both. I decided to consolidate with MVC.

 

[TravelTime]

Here is a potential benefit of DP: If the DPs are high and a Maui owner wants cash out of their unit by renting to pay for other bills etc. One benefit of enrollment is to convert to DPs and then rent out your points instead of renting out the unit for a lot less hassle.

So if an OF owners has 8000(?) points, how much per point could they get by renting the points vs. renting a prime week on Redweek? Assuming .63 cents a point x 8000 points = $5040 which is about what you would get renting direct but a lot less hassle.

But if you own an EOY do you get 8000 points EOY? or 4k annually. Can you combine the 4K across years?

I think what Tuggers forget is most owners do not want to rent their weeks or points. I certainly do not want the hassle and I am educated on this option. So just imagine all the people who are clueless about renting or who are like me and do not want to bother. People like myself are fine paying for vacations, even expensive vacations. I am not into maximizing things down to the penny. MVC and Vistana are cheap vacations to me. I think the quality is great for the price and I love lots of space and views.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I own with MVC qualified weeks and trust points and WKOVRN 2BR OF . I only use 2BRs with views. There are many 2BR with views for 3800 - 4200 DPs in MVC. Even in Hawaii (outside of Maui), you could get a 2BR ocean view/ocean front for approx 4500 to 5500 DPs and still have DPs leftover for another vacation. So I could get a minimum of 2 vacations in 2BRs that would be better than using my unit split as a 1BR and studio. I would never stay in a studio and 1BRs do not work for my family so this option is not attractive to me. I suspect many qualified Maui owners will really like the MVC system.

I think most people on this thread are not knowledgeable about MVC. Once more qualified Vistana owners become educated about MVC, they are going to elect points. It may take a few years to get there but MVC is an excellent system. I have also owned Hyatt and Disney (many many points with Disney). I sold them both. I decided to consolidate with MVC.

No doubt. most Vistana owners do not have first-hand experience how DPs work and this will be a hurdle for adoption (and partially why we have this thread.)

Are you saying that a WKORV or N OF owner could book Kauai, Ko Olina, Spain, or Ritz St. Thomas 2 bdrm OV/OF for a week and then have points left over that they could rent out or book a second unit? If so, that is attractive because we struggle to add extended family or friends to our visits using Vistana and the option to easily rent out points to offset the cost of the unit is also attractive.

Is there good availability during peak for such DP reservations at these resorts?

How do DPs work for EOY - only given for the use year? or are points split across years (and can be combined). Can you deposit and borrow from a future year? Do you need to pay the DP fee for just the use year or the off year if you borrow?

 

[dioxide45]

No doubt. most Vistana owners do not have first-hand experience how DPs work and this will be a hurdle for adoption (and partially why we have this thread.)

Are you saying that a WKORV or N OF owner could book Kauai, Ko Olina, Spain, or Ritz St. Thomas 2 bdrm OV/OF for a week and then have points left over that they could rent out or book a second unit? If so, that is attractive because we struggle to add extended family or friends to our visits using Vistana and the option to easily rent out points to offset the cost of the unit is also attractive.

Is there good availability during peak for such DP reservations at these resorts?

How do DPs work for EOY - only given for the use year? or are points split across years (and can be combined). Can you deposit and borrow from a future year? Do you need to pay the DP fee for just the use year or the off year if you borrow?

There will be some situations where a WKORV owner may get more Club Points and have some left over. Say they opt for Kierland, they may have a few hundred or a thousand left. Perhaps they opt for SDO, They may have several thousand left and get two weeks instead of one out of their one week. Right now, SDO Plat+ is the same number of StarOptions as a non OF WKORF, but it won't be that way with Club Points.

As for every other year, Club Points are only given/elected in the use year. Just like the VSN fee, the Annual DC Club fee is paid every year.

 

[TravelTime]

No doubt. most Vistana owners do not have first-hand experience how DPs work and this will be a hurdle for adoption (and partially why we have this thread.)

Are you saying that a WKORV or N OF owner could book Kauai, Ko Olina, Spain, or Ritz St. Thomas 2 bdrm OV/OF for a week and then have points left over that they could rent out or book a second unit? If so, that is attractive because we struggle to add extended family or friends to our visits using Vistana and the option to easily rent out points to offset the cost of the unit is also attractive.

Is there good availability during peak for such DP reservations at these resorts?

How do DPs work for EOY - only given for the use year? or are points split across years (and can be combined). Can you deposit and borrow from a future year? Do you need to pay the DP fee for just the use year or the off year if you borrow?

Lots of good questions.

So for WKOVRN 2BR OF, we will get 8325 DPs EOY in its use year. I have another EOY that I get points for so to me, it works out just fine whether they are annual or EOY. For status, MVC averages the points as if they were annual. So that means 8325 are divided in half to figure out your status level but awarded in the usage year. Since you can bank and borrow points, the year awarded makes less difference. It does help that I am Presidential so I get 1.5 years to use the points after I bank them. There is no fee to bank points. I have never borrowed so I am not sure about that. I have not heard of a fee for borrowing.

In terms of how many vacations you can get from 8325 DPs, it is really quite a lot depending on the unit size, season, view and location. A few examples of things I have booked using DPs:

4250 DPs: Marco Island 2 BR Gulf front in June (there are many view categories here but this is the highest view category, which I booked for next summer)

5725 DPs: Ko Olina 2 BR Ocean view (equivalent to ocean front at WKOVRN) in summer (can go as low as 4925 DPs in shoulder season)

3675 DPs: Ritz Carlton St Thomas 2BR suite (all oceanfront at this resort) in summer - on our way here now, assuming we ever get here. Our plane has mechanical difficulties!

5875 DPs: Waiohai Beach Club in Kauai 2 BR Ocean View in summer (can go as low as 5025 in shoulder seasons…however most people think island view at this resort is just fine…I think it’s because ocean views at this resort are not as incredible like at other resorts so island view saves about 1000 DPs or so)

For Marbella in Spain, the 2BRs are mostly high 2000s to low 3000s in DPs with a few high weeks in the summer being a little over 4000 DPs. Just giving some more examples to show how many vacations you can take using 8325 DPs.

For the above, you use a lot fewer DPs if you chose a different view or unit size and more points if you choose a higher season. But very few locations are going to be over 6000-7000 DPs even in high season. Maui is probably the highest in the program.

You can take a look at the points charts here:

https://vacationpointexchange.com/pointschart/points_charts_2023.pdf

Nowadays, I book when the booking window opens to get exactly what I want. Prior to Covid, I was not having to worry quite as much about the booking window.

To me, the most attractive part of qualifying my Vistana week is I can get more vacations at more destinations in what I consider to be equivalent view types in 2BR units for 8325 DPs. If I lock off my 2BR at WKOVRN, then I only get a 1BR and a studio. If I want to visit other VSE resorts, I need to use SOs at 8 months when most inventory I would desire would be unavailable. I also prefer booking at 13 or 12 months, depending on when the resort opens its inventory for booking with DPs.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thanks @TravelTime for the detailed explanation. Do all DPs get 13 month booking preference? or do you need to qualify for Elite status?

 

[TravelTime]

Thanks @TravelTime for the detailed explanation. Do all DPs get 13 month booking preference? or do you need to qualify for Elite status?

MVC goes by the benefits level chart:

https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/common/cms/mvcau/pdfs/benefits-at-a-glance-chart-US.pdf

Everyone gets some level of booking at 13 months but the number of nights varies by level.

Most resorts are available to book at 13 months but some do not release inventory until 12 months out. Some split the inventory between 13 and 12 months. It varies a bit but after awhile of reading TUG and playing around with the booking system at 13 and 12 months to see what is released, you get the hang of it.

 

[rickandcindy23]

No doubt. most Vistana owners do not have first-hand experience how DPs work and this will be a hurdle for adoption (and partially why we have this thread.)

Are you saying that a WKORV or N OF owner could book Kauai, Ko Olina, Spain, or Ritz St. Thomas 2 bdrm OV/OF for a week and then have points left over that they could rent out or book a second unit? If so, that is attractive because we struggle to add extended family or friends to our visits using Vistana and the option to easily rent out points to offset the cost of the unit is also attractive.

Is there good availability during peak for such DP reservations at these resorts?

How do DPs work for EOY - only given for the use year? or are points split across years (and can be combined). Can you deposit and borrow from a future year? Do you need to pay the DP fee for just the use year or the off year if you borrow?

I hope those who do not understand DP's and how they work find TUG. Don't take a salesperson's word for anything. The salespeople are still our enemies as resale buyers who are wise to the lies. Hey, that rhymes.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Lots of good questions.

So for WKOVRN 2BR OF, we will get 8325 DPs EOY in its use year. I have another EOY that I get points for so to me, it works out just fine whether they are annual or EOY. For status, MVC averages the points as if they were annual. So that means 8325 are divided in half to figure out your status level but awarded in the usage year. Since you can bank and borrow points, the year awarded makes less difference. It does help that I am Presidential so I get 1.5 years to use the points after I bank them. There is no fee to bank points. I have never borrowed so I am not sure about that. I have not heard of a fee for borrowing.

In terms of how many vacations you can get from 8325 DPs, it is really quite a lot depending on the unit size, season, view and location. A few examples of things I have booked using DPs:

4250 DPs: Marco Island 2 BR Gulf front in June (there are many view categories here but this is the highest view category, which I booked for next summer)

5725 DPs: Ko Olina 2 BR Ocean view (equivalent to ocean front at WKOVRN) in summer (can go as low as 4925 DPs in shoulder season)

3675 DPs: Ritz Carlton St Thomas 2BR suite (all oceanfront at this resort) in summer - on our way here now, assuming we ever get here. Our plane has mechanical difficulties!

5875 DPs: Waiohai Beach Club in Kauai 2 BR Ocean View in summer (can go as low as 5025 in shoulder seasons…however most people think island view at this resort is just fine…I think it’s because ocean views at this resort are not as incredible like at other resorts so island view saves about 1000 DPs or so)

For Marbella in Spain, the 2BRs are mostly high 2000s to low 3000s in DPs with a few high weeks in the summer being a little over 4000 DPs. Just giving some more examples to show how many vacations you can take using 8325 DPs.

For the above, you use a lot fewer DPs if you chose a different view or unit size and more points if you choose a higher season. But very few locations are going to be over 6000-7000 DPs even in high season. Maui is probably the highest in the program.

You can take a look at the points charts here:

https://vacationpointexchange.com/pointschart/points_charts_2023.pdf

Nowadays, I book when the booking window opens to get exactly what I want. Prior to Covid, I was not having to worry quite as much about the booking window.

To me, the most attractive part of qualifying my Vistana week is I can get more vacations at more destinations in what I consider to be equivalent view types in 2BR units for 8325 DPs. If I lock off my 2BR at WKOVRN, then I only get a 1BR and a studio. If I want to visit other VSE resorts, I need to use SOs at 8 months when most inventory I would desire would be unavailable. I also prefer booking at 13 or 12 months, depending on when the resort opens its inventory for booking with DPs.

What a great explanation of why you want to convert. I am impressed with all of that. But you obviously bought Westin North Oceanfront from the developer. We are resale oceanfront owners We still paid a lot for us because we are not rich people. I don't think we can be talked into anything that will cost us big bucks. I am not an easy sell on anything.

 

[kozykritter]

Just finished a presentation at MVC San Diego Pulse. For reference I own direct-purchased Sheraton Flex, 3* and don't own any MVC. Here is the information I took away from the presentation ... please don't shoot the messenger ...

Things we've already heard:
-Launch planned for early half of July...maybe July 1st but could be later
-Vistana ownership (see below about resales) will be allowed to enroll in DC for no fee and elect DP in a given year if they wish.
-If a Vistana owner decides not to enroll in DC they will pay the new all-inclusive VSN club fees based upon elite levels we've seen mentioned here (if they are VSN eligible) and function only in the VSN system
-If a Vistana owner decides to enroll in DC, they will instead pay all-inclusive MVC club fees (same rates as VSN) based upon elite levels and have their online account moved to MVC (and MVC's corporate II account too, I'm guessing)
-Vistana elite 3* 4* 5* levels will track to Executive, Presidential and Chairman if ownership enrolled in DC
-Enrolled Vistana owners will elect to convert to DP for following year by September/October of current year, same as MVC enrolled weeks owners

Things that were new to me as a non-MVC owner (the microdynamics of which are still unclear):
- When a Vistana owner elects DP, their week or flex options (underlying inventory of Vistana/Marriott's choosing) go into a bucket that can then be booked by MVC enrolled week owners that elected DP and by DC trust owners. (This bucket also has inventory from MVC enrolled week owners that elected DP...is the MVC exchange, perhaps?)
-Vistana elected DPs will book from this bucket containing inventory from MVC enrolled week owners electing DP and of course Vistana elected DP inventory (but why would you book backwards to Vistana after the skim?)
-When a DC trust owner books inventory from this bucket, an equivalent amount of DC trust ownership (of MVC's choosing!) gets transferred over into this same bucket as part of the exchange and becomes bookable as well.
-If you only own Vistana, this bucket is the only inventory that will be available for you to book in the MVC system (II exchanges aside).
-If you own both Vistana and any amount of MVC DC trust points, you will have access to the entire DC trust inventory for the combined points of both your Vistana elected ownership and the MVC DC trust points you own (the much-hyped hybrid account).

Vistana Resales:
-I told them my online peeps were most concerned about how resales would be treated, particularly unqualified mandatory resales. They said that a MVC sales exec told them in April that they still hadn't quite yet figured out how they were going to handle Vistana resales (nothing about specific types). The salesperson suspects they have decided how since then but nothing has been communicated down the chain so far. Sorry I couldn't give more info!

Since I am 3*, happy with the Vistana system and will be able to enroll my ownership in the DC with elite status, they verbally recognized that I didn't need to buy anything so their angle was that if I wanted to have access to DC trust inventory (with all my ownership) to avoid reservation frustration from just booking MVC exchange inventory, I should buy a small amount of DC points now (1000 and 1500 were offered). I told them they made a very good point but I wasn't going to invest $14K-$17K now (plus interest and more maintenance fees) as an insurance policy against a potential future problem. I already travel to the MVC properties I want through II exchanges, getaways and point rentals from MVC owners so not too concerned. I told them I would buy resale points in the future if needed including junk fees and they said they don't have the same status as DC points, which confused me based upon what I know from TUG but hey, could just be sour grapes from them!

 

[dsmrp]

Just finished a presentation at MVC San Diego Pulse. For reference I own direct-purchased Sheraton Flex, 3* and don't own any MVC. Here is the information I took away from the presentation (old and new) ... please don't shoot the messenger ...

Things we've already heard:
-Launch planned for early half of July...maybe July 1st but could be later
-Vistana ownership (see below about resales) will be allowed to enroll in DC for no fee and elect DP in a given year if they wish.
-If a Vistana owner decides not to enroll in DC they will pay the new all-inclusive VSN club fees based upon elite levels we've seen mentioned here (if they are VSN eligible) and function only in the VSN system
-If a Vistana owner decides to enroll in DC, they will instead pay all-inclusive MVC club fees (same rates as VSN) based upon elite levels and have their online account moved to MVC (and MVC's corporate II account too, I'm guessing)
-Vistana elite 3* 4* 5* levels will track to Executive, Presidential and Chairman if ownership enrolled in DC
-Enrolled Vistana owners will elect to convert to DP for following year by September/October of current year, same as MVC enrolled weeks owners

Things that were new to me as a non-MVC owner (the microdynamics of which are still unclear):
- When a Vistana owner elects DP, their week or flex options (underlying inventory of Vistana/Marriott's choosing) go into a bucket that can then be booked by MVC enrolled owners that elected DP and by DC trust owners. (This bucket may also be the same one where inventory from MVC enrolled owners that elect DP goes...is this the MVC exchange, perhaps?)
-Vistana elected DPs can only be used to book inventory from this MVC enrolled owners electing DP bucket (and Vistana elected DP but why would you book backwards after the skim?)
-When a DC trust owner books Vistana inventory from this bucket, an equivalent amount of DC trust ownership (of MVC's choosing!) goes into this same bucket for Vistana elected DP's (and probably MVC enrolled owners electing to book DP)
-If you only own Vistana, this bucket is the only inventory that will be available to you to book in the MVC system (I told them I had seen it mentioned here that sometimes DC trust inventory has been used to fund MVC exchange transactions and they said yes, sometimes they do that to fulfill a reservation...still don't understand that vague response)
-If you own both Vistana and any amount of MVC DC trust points, you will have access to the entire DC trust inventory for the combined points of both your Vistana elected ownership and the MVC DC trust points you own (the much-hyped hybrid account and why they suggested I buy some points at today's prices to avoid the frustration of limited inventory going forward).

Vistana Resales:
-I told them my online peeps were most concerned about how resales would be treated, particularly unqualified mandatory resales. They said that a MVC sales exec told them in April that they still hadn't quite yet figured out how they were going to handle Vistana resales (nothing about specific types). The salesperson suspects they have decided how since then but nothing has been communicated down the chain so far. Sorry I couldn't give more info!

Since I am 3*, happy with the Vistana system and will be able to enroll my ownership in the DC with elite status, they verbally recognized that I didn't need to buy anything so their angle was that if I wanted to have access to DC trust inventory (with all my ownership) to avoid reservation frustration from just booking MVC exchange inventory, I should buy a small amount of DC points now (1000 and 1500 were offered). I told them they made a very good point but I wasn't going to invest $14K-$17K now (plus interest and more maintenance fees) as an insurance policy against a potential future problem. I already travel to the MVC properties I want through II exchanges, getaways and point rentals from MVC owners so not too concerned. I told them I would buy resales points in the future if needed and they said they don't have the same status as DC points, which confused me based upon what I know from TUG but hey, could be sour grapes!

Thx for update report.
The Vistana elected DP bucket kinda sounds like a chicken n'egg situation with DC trust and MVC pts elected weeks. But probably not so bad, as there are many more MVC owners. Still have to have a little faith that the resort & time you want to exchange into will be available a little later.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Marriott's Custom House has really high fees for the lousy DP's you get for it. We owned two weeks and loved it, but the fees were too much. We sold through Marriott.