CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[frank808]

Good luck to them getting savvy owners to convert at that rate. WKV Plat rents for around $4000-$4500. The rental value of 4050 DC points is $2800, maybe slightly less. So, around a $1500 disparity in value lost in the points conversion.

Another way to look at it - There are actually decent exchanges to be had within the MVC system for 4050 points, but a peak summer week at Newport Coast, for example is 4725 DC points. Converting to points, an owner would have a tough time making that exchange - they'd have to rent another 700 points for around $500. On the other hand, one can rent out WKV for $4000 rather easily, and rent a summer week 2BR at NCV for $3000 and come out $1000 ahead. So again, a disparity of at least $1500 in value ($1000 inflow, vs $500 outflow).

While most people prefer convenience and may view rental transactions as a hassle, $1500 is too much of a disparity in value to ignore.

Where have you seen NCV rentals in the summer month of July for $3000? I would rent that from an owner. Thanks

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[dioxide45]

For months (actually years now) everyone has opined as to what heck was taking so long for Marriott to combine these groups.

Now that they are close, I think the sheer number of scenarios presented by just our 'small' group on TUG really explains why it has taken sooooo long.

Sadly, I suspect they haven't even accounted for much of the scenarios we have mentioned. If that is true, the real question is what was taking them so long.

 

[VacationForever]

For this reason, and this reason alone, I say they should just let all mandatory week owners enroll. KISS is what they say!

Ah, but if they do it this way to KISS, then in the future, all mandatory resale will automatically be enrolled as well. Just saying...

 

[VacationForever]

Where have you seen NCV rentals in the summer month of July for $3000? I would rent that from an owner. Thanks

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I have seen it consistently on Redweek every year, especially when it gets closer...

 

[jabberwocky]

This post by @NiteMaire includes a picture that shows no VSN fees for someone paying consolidated club annual dues:

CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

The best way to determine if a reservation should be made via DC or VSN is to look at the conversion ratios. Let's look at a specific scenario; @jabberwocky WKORVN OF 2BR week is worth 8,325 Club Points. That is worth 176,700 StarOptions. A ratio of 21.225:1. Say you want to go to Scottsdale...

tugbbs.com

This leads me to wonder how things would work for someone owning developer-purchased or requalified weeks and mandatory resale unqualified weeks that pays VSN fees for all of them now; if it's only the developer-purchased and requalified weeks that are enrolled in the consolidated club would they have to continue paying the VSN fees for the unqualified mandatory resale weeks if they are not enrolled? The annual dues are one thing, but there would also be housekeeping fees for excess reservations made with SOs and banking fees for SOs that include both enrolled and non-enrolled deeds. Similarly, the elimination of II exchange fees in corporate II accounts would have to be treated appropriately. Seems to argue for the idea that mandatory resale weeks would be enrolled. (Although from what I've seen in the brief time I've owned with Vistana that Marriott's IT department would surely be up to the task of setting up the system to separate things properly to segregate things....)

I agree, if they decide to segregate the mandatory resale weeks and don’t let them play in the sandbox, I think they would have to set up a whole new set of II accounts as the MVC II account would have to be different than the VSN account (the current VSN fee covers all VSN-eligible weeks).

Bottom line is we don’t know the truth and official communications haven’t been released. The salespeople have big incentives to lie about mandatory resales being excluded, and when I see them manipulating ownership information by whiting things out, I get suspicious.

I won’t be making and further purchases in Vistana based on speculation. I like most of what we own. If MVC wants me to convert my resale WKORVN week, they are welcome to let me in for free. Otherwise I will just use it as intended.

If I need to blow an extra $10-15k I think it is better spent on buying more VAC stock. They seem to be making out very well in the midst of this confusion.

 

[DanCali]

Where have you seen NCV rentals in the summer month of July for $3000? I would rent that from an owner. Thanks

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I usually list my NCV rentals at very competitive prices - this is the first year I charged $3000. I charged less in prior years. Rental prices there have risen significantly since covid due to travel restrictions elsewhere - my default pricing till 2019 was $2600. I expect to have a July week this year for rental - currently in closing process with confirmed reservation. When I'm ready to advertise it, it will be on RedWeek (hopefully, this last sentence did not violate any rules)

 

[VacationForever]

I agree, if they decide to segregate the mandatory resale weeks and don’t let them play in the sandbox, I think they would have to set up a whole new set of II accounts as the MVC II account would have to be different than the VSN account (the current VSN fee covers all VSN-eligible weeks).

Bottom line is we don’t know the truth and official communications haven’t been released. The salespeople have big incentives to lie about mandatory resales being excluded, and when I see them manipulating ownership information by whiting things out, I get suspicious.

I won’t be making and further purchases in Vistana based on speculation. I like most of what we own. If MVC wants me to convert my resale WKORVN week, they are welcome to let me in for free. Otherwise I will just use it as intended.

If I need to blow an extra $10-15k I think it is better spent on buying more VAC stock. They seem to be making out very well in the midst of this confusion.

For someone who owns both Vistana and Marriott timeshare, I have 2 corporate II accounts currently. When the Vistana ownership gets enrolled, that ownership simply moves into the Marriott II corporate account. The bigger question is that if you own both Vistana enrolled and unenrolled weeks, do you pay 2 fees - MVC DC fees and VSN? I think you would and owners will have to think through whether they want the enrollable weeks enrolled into MVC or not. I have 3 II accounts current, including a personal non-corporate one.

 

[jabberwocky]

I wonder if Marriott even thought of all these nuances. Perhaps that is why we have the "Soft Launch", so we can tell them all the stuff they should have thought of themselves?

I think you’re onto something. The soft launch is really just a way to turn TUG into a big focus group.

 

[dioxide45]

A lot of info making its way to TUG from Facebook. It used to be the other way around lol.

It is interesting how the tide has turned some. There certainly are some very large and very active Facebook groups out there. Even I am starting to participate in some. Something I never thought I would really do that much. I just don't have the time to follow here in great details and read all the posts in those groups. So I do like it when people post information here that they gleam from those groups.

 

[DanCali]

It is interesting how the tide has turned some. There certainly are some very large and very active Facebook groups out there. Even I am starting to participate in some. Something I never thought I would really do that much. I just don't have the time to follow here in great details and read all the posts in those groups. So I do like it when people post information here that they gleam from those groups.

Most people on here probably are old enough to remember and probably also used IRC (Internet Relay Chat) - I doubt the same can be said for Facebook....

I don't even have a Facebook account.

 

[JIMinNC]

It is interesting how the tide has turned some. There certainly are some very large and very active Facebook groups out there. Even I am starting to participate in some. Something I never thought I would really do that much. I just don't have the time to follow here in great details and read all the posts in those groups. So I do like it when people post information here that they gleam from those groups.

Reading those Facebook groups does, however, give you a greater appreciation for what we have here on TUG. The incorrect information that sometimes gets shared on those groups as fact often astounds me, and reading those posts demonstrates just how much insight and knowledge we all share here on TUG

 

[TravelTime]

My experience in booking Marriott Maui Ocean Club with both points and booking our week, is that all inventory goes fairly quickly - both points and weeks - for peak demand times like whale season Jan-Mar. I've found 12-month points inventory generally shows up online the day before the "official" release date, and our last two bookings with points for Maui (Feb 2022 and Feb 2023) were booked prior to the time when the inventory is supposed to actually be released. The Feb 2023 booking was booked about 18 hours prior to the official 9am Friday release time. Within a few hours after the "official" release day/time, most of the best stuff is gone. I've seen the same thing happen with our weeks bookings. Within a few minutes/hours, it's usually gone.

So, I don't think it's a case of there not being enough inventory in the Trust or the MVC Exchange, it's just Maui is VERY high demand.

I was talking about Maui and there being a need for more inventory. For this reason, I think the trust needs more Maui inventory. I have no idea what MVC’s new program will look like after they integrate with Vistana. If I were them, I would allow all Westin Maui owners including non-qualified resales to convert for DPs.

I have not seen it available before release time but maybe I am just not lucky!

 

[ragdoll]

My hope is that they allow all VSN members (no matter resale, retro'ed or developer) to enroll and they replace the current VSN fee structure with the new one. I would not mind paying a little extra to cover fees for II trades and banking even if I don't elect DP points in some year

I don't support this. We never bank our points or trade it and have no interest in doing so. We like where we bought and go there once or twice a year. For our usage, we don't need a new fee structure.

 

[pchung6]

I was talking about Maui and there being a need for more inventory. For this reason, I think the trust needs more Maui inventory. I have no idea what MVC’s new program will look like after they integrate with Vistana. If I were them, I would allow all Westin Maui owners including non-qualified resales to convert for DPs.

I have not seen it available before release time but maybe I am just not lucky!

I don’t want to join even it is free. Hope other owners can see the same as me, so we can keep VSN alive as long as possible. I’m thinking to buy another WKORVN OF, but the price has gone up insane recently.

 

[VacationForever]

I was talking about Maui and there being a need for more inventory. For this reason, I think the trust needs more Maui inventory. I have no idea what MVC’s new program will look like after they integrate with Vistana. If I were them, I would allow all Westin Maui owners including non-qualified resales to convert for DPs.

I have not seen it available before release time but maybe I am just not lucky!

They really cannot pick and choose as to which resort is allowed to enroll or not. Policies have to be consistent.

 

[daviator]

Most people on here probably are old enough to remember and probably also used IRC (Internet Relay Chat) - I doubt the same can be said for Facebook....

I don't even have a Facebook account.

IRC? That’s almost newfangled. How about dial-up BBS systems? They were around long before there was an internet. I always wondered, because of its name, if TUG perhaps went back that far.

As for Facebook, I am in several timeshare-oriented groups there but most of the participants are so amazingly ignorant that I rarely find them useful. Someone will ask a legitimate question and then get 50 different answers, 45 of which are completely wrong. And the person who asked the question probably has no way to filter out the worthless responses because they don’t know the right answer.

Also, Facebook doesn’t really provide a useful way to search for information previously posted or questions previously answered, and so the same questions and complaints get posted over and over again. Thank goodness for our wonderful moderators here who keep things organized.

Sometimes I will take the time to answer someone's question there on Facebook, but my answer may get quickly lost in the sea of wrong answers posted by others. There are a small handful of knowledgeable and helpful owners there but the vast majority really don’t understand the programs in which they own. TUG is much more useful.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I don’t want to join even it is free. Hope other owners can see the same as me, so we can keep VSN alive as long as possible. I’m thinking to buy another WKORVN OF, but the price has gone up insane recently.

OF WKORV/N is not part of Westin Flex - another reason OF resale seems to be increasing.

I have no luck in reserving our OF WKORV - just getting timed out. None of our other resort weeks are getting timed out.
They better resolve this soon.


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[CPNY]

IRC? That’s almost newfangled. How about dial-up BBS systems? They were around long before there was an internet. I always wondered, because of its name, if TUG perhaps went back that far.

As for Facebook, I am in several timeshare-oriented groups there but most of the participants are so amazingly ignorant that I rarely find them useful. Someone will ask a legitimate question and then get 50 different answers, 45 of which are completely wrong. And the person who asked the question probably has no way to filter out the worthless responses because they don’t know the right answer.

Also, Facebook doesn’t really provide a useful way to search for information previously posted or questions previously answered, and so the same questions and complaints get posted over and over again. Thank goodness for our wonderful moderators here who keep things organized.

Sometimes I will take the time to answer someone's question there on Facebook, but my answer may get quickly lost in the sea of wrong answers posted by others. There are a small handful of knowledgeable and helpful owners there but the vast majority really don’t understand the programs in which they own. TUG is much more useful.

I look at Facebook groups as high school and TUG as graduate work. I’m of the belief that the Facebook crowd just needs to learn. It’s not their fault. Everyone has a Facebook account and CAN join a group because they own a timeshare. They come in uneducated and disgruntled because lets not forget, they were lied to by a sales rep at one point.

People who WANT to learn come to TUG and put the effort in. I was one of those disgruntled Facebook people at one point. I finally joined TUG (years too late to rescind my developer purchases unfortunately) and learned a bit more about what I bought into. I came to TUG with the same disgruntled attitude I had on Facebook and learned rather quickly that it’s not the same here. I had a choice to make, either shape up and learn or ship out. Well, as I’m sure some wish I shipped out, I didn’t. I went from a one week PO’d owner to owning 5 weeks in different systems…..( thanks TUG for my new obsession/hobby).

I feel we as educated owners need to give back and bring more FB owners to our side. Stop looking at FB as the poor uneducated masses we want to ignore and try our best to educate them. I always advocate for owners to join TUG in every FB TS group I’m in. I love when owners understand how to use their ownerships and go from PO’d to actually making what they own work for them.

In conclusion: Be Kind, Rewind

 

[CPNY]

OF WKORV/N is not part of Westin Flex - another reason OF resale seems to be increasing.

I have no luck in reserving our OF WKORV - just getting timed out. None of our other resort weeks are getting timed out.
They better resolve this soon.


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I called Vistana and told them to make sure your account gets Timed out as punishment for not giving me a WSJ unit HAHAH

 

[DavidnRobin]

IRC? That’s almost newfangled. How about dial-up BBS systems? They were around long before there was an internet. I always wondered, because of its name, if TUG perhaps went back that far.

As for Facebook, I am in several timeshare-oriented groups there but most of the participants are so amazingly ignorant that I rarely find them useful. Someone will ask a legitimate question and then get 50 different answers, 45 of which are completely wrong. And the person who asked the question probably has no way to filter out the worthless responses because they don’t know the right answer.

Also, Facebook doesn’t really provide a useful way to search for information previously posted or questions previously answered, and so the same questions and complaints get posted over and over again. Thank goodness for our wonderful moderators here who keep things organized.

Sometimes I will take the time to answer someone's question there on Facebook, but my answer may get quickly lost in the sea of wrong answers posted by others. There are a small handful of knowledgeable and helpful owners there but the vast majority really don’t understand the programs in which they own. TUG is much more useful.

Totally agree - I am constantly amazed of how few people on FB understand what they bought on spur of moment.

But a few of us Tuggers still try and help those that want to listen. Many do not, and bash us as being anti-Vistana, working for Vistana (which makes zero sense), or anti-TUG (like it is some scheme).


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[Mowogo]

Should they charge them a bunch of junk fees like Marriott does for point resales before they consider them to be qualified?

Junk fees, but still makes them a steal compared to buying developer. And with some costs I’ve seen, resale is still reasonable and good for stepping up ownership.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I called Vistana and told them to make sure your account gets Timed out as punishment for not giving me a WSJ unit HAHAH

LOL
Has anyone been successful at booking WKORV and not getting Timed out?

btw - as I think I mentioned - our WSJ neighbor is thinking about relinquishing their 2 weeks (23-24, B31, Sat-Sat). I can put you in contact with them.
Unlike me - they will probably want some compensation (looks like I should have sold vs. giving away), but probably not that much as they bought resale in 2012 at much less than we paid (pre-recession).


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[CPNY]

LOL
Has anyone been successful at booking WKORV and not getting Timed out?

btw - as I think I mentioned - our WSJ neighbor is thinking about relinquishing their 2 weeks (23-24, B31, Sat-Sat). I can put you in contact with them.
Unlike me - they will probably want some compensation (looks like I should have sold vs. giving away), but probably not that much as they bought resale in 2012.


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Yes def!

Ive been checking reservation system and it seems that the only resort I don’t get timed Out on is Harborside. I’ve tried others and if times out. I’m wondering if it has to do with the whole marriott reservation system linkage. We know Harborside won’t be linked to the hotel side so this could be why it comes back with reservations quickly. Yet the others time out. I think it’s between the hotel system linkage and/or the vacation club conversion. Of course I’m not a tech guy and I am just speculating.

 

[dsmrp]

OF WKORV/N is not part of Westin Flex - another reason OF resale seems to be increasing.

I have no luck in reserving our OF WKORV - just getting timed out. None of our other resort weeks are getting timed out.
They better resolve this soon.


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As I posted on another thread about website issues, I kept getting timed out too.
I called CS and they made my reservation for me (I was just trying to tack on another day, and also trying to use up banked options expiring this year).
What was really nice is that Vistana had instituted a call back program, so I didn't have to wait on interminable hold for an hour. A rep called me back in less than 30 minutes. They might have had the call back option a long time ago, I just rarely call CS.

The rep said they were having some delays in their searches too, but I thought since they were call center staff, Vistana IT might have given their workstations/subnets higher priority.

 

[pchung6]

LOL
Has anyone been successful at booking WKORV and not getting Timed out?

btw - as I think I mentioned - our WSJ neighbor is thinking about relinquishing their 2 weeks (23-24, B31, Sat-Sat). I can put you in contact with them.
Unlike me - they will probably want some compensation (looks like I should have sold vs. giving away), but probably not that much as they bought resale in 2012 at much less than we paid (pre-recession).


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I called and complained big time last week. I asked to escalate to someone can make decision and demanded an explanation. They finally gave me 5 days thanksgiving week Oceanview Sunday to Friday. I asked for 7 nights, at least I got something.