CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[dsmrp]

While I hope there would be only one club fee, I am doubtful that Marriott/Vistana billing software will be updated enough to truly discern each year if an eligible week elected DC points. For example, if I elected DC points the first year, I think the logic would be charging me DC club fee each year after that whether I elect points or not. Or charge DC fee if I have banked DC points.
And if there is still a VSN fee, then tack on the VSN club fee if I have/use banked star options.
I'd be fine with getting charged more expensive DC club fee each year, if that was the only club fee.

I'm doubtful of being billed for DC club only for the years I use it because the Vistana site can't even keep track of housekeeping credits from cancelled reservations.

 

[VacationForever]

While I hope there would be only one club fee, I am doubtful that Marriott/Vistana billing software will be updated enough to truly discern each year if an eligible week elected DC points. For example, if I elected DC points the first year, I think the logic would be charging me DC club fee each year after that whether I elect points or not. Or charge DC fee if I have banked DC points.
And if there is still a VSN fee, then tack on the VSN club fee if I have/use banked star options.
I'd be fine with getting charged more expensive DC club fee each year, if that was the only club fee.

I'm doubtful of being billed for DC club only for the years I use it because the Vistana site can't even keep track of housekeeping credits from cancelled reservations.

I believe once enrolled, you are always charged DC club fees, regardless what you decide to do with the week/points and there is not a second VSN fee. That is how it works for MVC.

 

[kozykritter]

I believe once enrolled, you are always charged DC club fees, regardless what you decide to do with the week/points and there is not a second VSN fee. That is how it works for MVC.

To me the bigger question is what happens to all the fees on the Vistana side. Yes once you enroll your ownership in DC on the MVC, any transactions you do in the MVC system using either annually elected DC points or rented points have no fees just like for MVC owners. However this doesn't address all the transactions you would do wholely on the Vistana side with your week, Flex options or StarOptions. It seems very possible that banking, guest, bonvoy conversion and extra housekeeping fees could all remain in that context and possibly the discounted II exchange fee when exchanging into a Vistana or Marriott property using unconverted Vistana ownership. Denise's contact said all these go away with the higher club dues but it hasn't been made clear that that included everything on the Vistana side.

 

[dioxide45]

To me the bigger question is what happens to all the fees on the Vistana side. Yes once you enroll your ownership in DC on the MVC, any transactions you do in the MVC system using either annually elected DC points or rented points have no fees just like for MVC owners. However this doesn't address all the transactions you would do wholely on the Vistana side with your week, Flex options or StarOptions. It seems very possible that banking, guest, bonvoy conversion and extra housekeeping fees could all remain in that context and possibly the discounted II exchange fee when exchanging into a Vistana or Marriott property using unconverted Vistana ownership. Denise's contact said all these go away with the higher club dues but it hasn't been made clear that that included everything on the Vistana side.

Based on the image shared in this post and another, it seems that the Bonvoy conversion, II exchange fees and banking fees go away. No word on the housekeeping fees

 

[Eric B]

While I hope there would be only one club fee, I am doubtful that Marriott/Vistana billing software will be updated enough to truly discern each year if an eligible week elected DC points. For example, if I elected DC points the first year, I think the logic would be charging me DC club fee each year after that whether I elect points or not. Or charge DC fee if I have banked DC points.
And if there is still a VSN fee, then tack on the VSN club fee if I have/use banked star options.
I'd be fine with getting charged more expensive DC club fee each year, if that was the only club fee.

I'm doubtful of being billed for DC club only for the years I use it because the Vistana site can't even keep track of housekeeping credits from cancelled reservations.

This post by @NiteMaire includes a picture that shows no VSN fees for someone paying consolidated club annual dues:

CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

The best way to determine if a reservation should be made via DC or VSN is to look at the conversion ratios. Let's look at a specific scenario; @jabberwocky WKORVN OF 2BR week is worth 8,325 Club Points. That is worth 176,700 StarOptions. A ratio of 21.225:1. Say you want to go to Scottsdale...

tugbbs.com

This leads me to wonder how things would work for someone owning developer-purchased or requalified weeks and mandatory resale unqualified weeks that pays VSN fees for all of them now; if it's only the developer-purchased and requalified weeks that are enrolled in the consolidated club would they have to continue paying the VSN fees for the unqualified mandatory resale weeks if they are not enrolled? The annual dues are one thing, but there would also be housekeeping fees for excess reservations made with SOs and banking fees for SOs that include both enrolled and non-enrolled deeds. Similarly, the elimination of II exchange fees in corporate II accounts would have to be treated appropriately. Seems to argue for the idea that mandatory resale weeks would be enrolled. (Although from what I've seen in the brief time I've owned with Vistana that Marriott's IT department would surely be up to the task of setting up the system to separate things properly to segregate things....)

 

[kozykritter]

Another question is how would II work if you enroll your ownership into the DC. Right now we all have Vistana corporate Ii accounts and enrolling into the DC would give us also Marriott corporate Ii accounts. Would they remain two separate accounts or are they planning to somehow use one master account for ownership in both programs? I have my Vistana one upgraded to platinum so if they're separate would you have to upgrade two accounts? So many questions.. Marriott please give us real details now

 

[dioxide45]

While I hope there would be only one club fee, I am doubtful that Marriott/Vistana billing software will be updated enough to truly discern each year if an eligible week elected DC points. For example, if I elected DC points the first year, I think the logic would be charging me DC club fee each year after that whether I elect points or not. Or charge DC fee if I have banked DC points.
And if there is still a VSN fee, then tack on the VSN club fee if I have/use banked star options.
I'd be fine with getting charged more expensive DC club fee each year, if that was the only club fee.

I'm doubtful of being billed for DC club only for the years I use it because the Vistana site can't even keep track of housekeeping credits from cancelled reservations.

I don't think you would pay one fee one year and a different fee another year. If you opt to enroll, then you start to pay the new DC Club fee of $215+. Don't enroll, continue to pay the $155+$60. What we don't know is, if that $155+$60 really goes away when you start paying the $215+.

 

[dioxide45]

This post by @NiteMaire includes a picture that shows no VSN fees for someone paying consolidated club annual dues:

CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

The best way to determine if a reservation should be made via DC or VSN is to look at the conversion ratios. Let's look at a specific scenario; @jabberwocky WKORVN OF 2BR week is worth 8,325 Club Points. That is worth 176,700 StarOptions. A ratio of 21.225:1. Say you want to go to Scottsdale...

tugbbs.com

This leads me to wonder how things would work for someone owning developer-purchased or requalified weeks and mandatory resale unqualified weeks that pays VSN fees for all of them now; if it's only the developer-purchased and requalified weeks that are enrolled in the consolidated club would they have to continue paying the VSN fees for the unqualified mandatory resale weeks if they are not enrolled? The annual dues are one thing, but there would also be housekeeping fees for excess reservations made with SOs and banking fees for SOs that include both enrolled and non-enrolled deeds. Similarly, the elimination of II exchange fees in corporate II accounts would have to be treated appropriately. Seems to argue for the idea that mandatory resale weeks would be enrolled. (Although from what I've seen in the brief time I've owned with Vistana that Marriott's IT department would surely be up to the task of setting up the system to separate things properly to segregate things....)

I suspect if you enroll, you get a brand new MVC DC II Corporate account. They transfer any elligble enrolled weeks into that account and they dissapear from your VSN II Corporate account. You then use them independantly. That is how it worked when we enrolled our Marriott weeks back in 2011. The big question is, as you also mentioned, do you still have to pay both the VSN fee and the DC Fee. More questions than answers at this point. I wonder if Marriott even thought of all these nuances. Perhaps that is why we have the "Soft Launch", so we can tell them all the stuff they should have thought of themselves?

 

[CPNY]

I suspect if you enroll, you get a brand new MVC DC II Corporate account. They transfer any elligble enrolled weeks into that account and they dissapear from your VSN II Corporate account. You then use them independantly. That is how it worked when we enrolled our Marriott weeks back in 2011. The big question is, as you also mentioned, do you still have to pay both the VSN fee and the DC Fee. More questions than answers at this point. I wonder if Marriott even thought of all these nuances. Perhaps that is why we have the "Soft Launch", so we can tell them all the stuff they should have thought of themselves?

[Insert joke regarding where their heads are and why they wouldn’t be able to hear what we have to say. Which would ultimately be deleted by moderators]

 

[wjarcher]

I don't think you would pay one fee one year and a different fee another year. If you opt to enroll, then you start to pay the new DC Club fee of $215+. Don't enroll, continue to pay the $155+$60. What we don't know is, if that $155+$60 really goes away when you start paying the $215+.

My hope is that they allow all VSN members (no matter resale, retro'ed or developer) to enroll and they replace the current VSN fee structure with the new one. I would not mind paying a little extra to cover fees for II trades and banking even if I don't elect DP points in some year

 

[dioxide45]

Here's some pictures along with the post (not mine) from a FB group. It was posted by an owner who recently did a virtual presentation. Pictures detail VSN/Consolidated Club dues along with some benefits.

ETA: I just realized @dioxide45 posted one of the pictures already, but I'll leave it here along with the other pictures.
----------------------------
We are 4 * Vistana owners and received an email from Marriott Vacation Club with a request for a virtual meeting. Here are the results: Vistana will stay the same with the same rules without change as per our contracts. As owners, we can choose to never use a Marriott property and keep doing things the way we have always done. MVC is merely another way for us to vacation like II except when choosing to elect Vacation Club Points (Marriott), we would have to trade our entire unit, ie 2 BR lockoff, not just one half. Our Westin Mission Hills 2 BR platinum plus = 3150 Vacation Club Points; Lagunamar 2 BR platinum plus = 4950 Vacation Club Points and our 63,000 Adventuras options = 2865. Our total in the Marriott system equals 10,200 making us Presidential. I attached a picture of benefits for this level. We are now titanium elite in Bonvoy as long as we still own what we own.
2. Our fees should go down as we all will fall under Marriott for these charges. I have attached charts to show this. Our sales person thought the actual fee for us would be around $300 when things are finalized in EARLY SUMMER. (No June date was mentioned but will only say it is supposed to happen in early summer for the hard launch.)
3. Misc.: If we elected to convert one unit into Vacation Club Points and did not use all the VCP's, they can be banked. We can use 2 years of VCP's to go on a cruise, etc. With Marriott, we can book 13 months in advance for any number of nights. (only if you elected to convert)
4. These are just some notes. We could have asked anything but once we knew things would not change for us on the Vistana side, it really didn't matter. Her soft sell was for us to add more Adventuras to have total options equaling 148,100 like a 2 BR. We did not buy. She was very nice and had been with MVC for 23 years as a Presidential level owner herself. She told us they can no longer sell Westin Flex as of a couple of days ago. She can only sell Adventuras and Sheraton Flex at this point and is unsure how much longer. I hope this is helpful

It looks like I only inclued one image. I missed all the fees would be replaced was perhaps part of two screenshots and the screenshot I provided had cut off the $155?$215 VSN fee being struck through.

 

[Eric B]

I suspect if you enroll, you get a brand new MVC DC II Corporate account. They transfer any [eligible] enrolled weeks into that account and they [disappear] from your VSN II Corporate account. You then use them [independently]. That is how it worked when we enrolled our Marriott weeks back in 2011. The big question is, as you also mentioned, do you still have to pay both the VSN fee and the DC Fee. More questions than answers at this point. I wonder if Marriott even thought of all these nuances. Perhaps that is why we have the "Soft Launch", so we can tell them all the stuff they should have thought of themselves?

The II one is more of an afterthought for me. The bigger issue would be how to deal with banking transactions for SOs on the VSN side where the group of SOs includes both enrolled SOs and ones that aren't enrolled (i.e., mixed SOs) as well as cancellation fees for reservations made with mixed SOs. The fees for those actions are supposed to be waived for enrolled SOs but there hasn't been much discussion about how they'll treat the others.

They could go down the route of making them entirely different pools of SOs similar to the dichotomy between SOs and home options for resale flex ownerships (and the Club Wyndham resale-developer point dichotomy), but there would likely be an issue with the mandatory resort CC&Rs if those SOs can't be used pooled with enrolled ones.

 

[dioxide45]

My hope is that they allow all VSN members (no matter resale, retro'ed or developer) to enroll and they replace the current VSN fee structure with the new one. I would not mind paying a little extra to cover fees for II trades and banking even if I don't elect DP points in some year

This would be the easiest way to handle it. Otherwise you may have an owner that has a mandatory (unqualified) and a developer purchase or requalified/retroed VOI that could end up paying both fees. The DC Fee for the VOIs that they can enroll and the VOIs that they can't. They would then potentially also need to have two II accounts. One for the enrolled VOis and another for just the pure VSN VOIs. Imagine someone owning a mandatory unqualified, a developer VOI and a vulutanary VOI. They could end up with three II accounts in the end.

 

[dioxide45]

The II one is more of an afterthought for me. The bigger issue would be how to deal with banking transactions for SOs on the VSN side where the group of SOs includes both enrolled SOs and ones that aren't enrolled (i.e., mixed SOs) as well as cancellation fees for reservations made with mixed SOs. The fees for those actions are supposed to be waived for enrolled SOs but there hasn't been much discussion about how they'll treat the others.

They could go down the route of making them entirely different pools of SOs similar to the dichotomy between SOs and home options for resale flex ownerships (and the Club Wyndham resale-developer point dichotomy), but there would likely be an issue with the mandatory resort CC&Rs if those SOs can't be used pooled with enrolled ones.

For this reason, and this reason alone, I say they should just let all mandatory week owners enroll. KISS is what they say!

 

[Eric B]

My hope is that they allow all VSN members (no matter resale, retro'ed or developer) to enroll and they replace the current VSN fee structure with the new one. I would not mind paying a little extra to cover fees for II trades and banking even if I don't elect DP points in some year

That would make me pretty happy, too. If it does, I could wind up being Presidential or Chairman's Club based on mandatory resale ownerships alone. Might even be worth paying some enrollment fee if there's one in the neighborhood of what they did for legacy resale weeks back in the day as I wouldn't be upset paying a slightly higher annual fee and avoid the banking costs, etc.

 

[dsmrp]

I suspect if you enroll, you get a brand new MVC DC II Corporate account. They transfer any elligble enrolled weeks into that account and they dissapear from your VSN II Corporate account. You then use them independantly. That is how it worked when we enrolled our Marriott weeks back in 2011. The big question is, as you also mentioned, do you still have to pay both the VSN fee and the DC Fee. More questions than answers at this point. I wonder if Marriott even thought of all these nuances. Perhaps that is why we have the "Soft Launch", so we can tell them all the stuff they should have thought of themselves?

Due to COVID, I suspect VSN members have banked options. I certainly have to bank this year's options too... TBD if we have to pay an additional fee to use those options...

LOL, that is exactly why companies do 'soft launches', so the more expert users will point out the omissions, discrepancies or corner cases not accounted for by the project teams. These can then be addressed or corrected and additional decisions made before the big "user go-live". It also puts more psychological urgency on owners to "upgrade" now to flex before that option goes away by June.

 

[Eric B]

For this reason, and this reason alone, I say they should just let all mandatory week owners enroll. KISS is what they say!

Don't forget enlightened self interest! That's always a good reason....

 

[kozykritter]

I suspect if you enroll, you get a brand new MVC DC II Corporate account. They transfer any elligble enrolled weeks into that account and they dissapear from your VSN II Corporate account. You then use them independantly. That is how it worked when we enrolled our Marriott weeks back in 2011.

I could see that for weeks but how about Flex? What sold me on Flex was not having to give up your entire VOI to exchange but instead being able to parse out your Flex options across many transactions. Would they move your enrolled Flex into a Marriott account and keep the same structure of the program with the fixed option exchange charts based upon unit size/demand? More questions

 

[kozykritter]

For this reason, and this reason alone, I say they should just let all mandatory week owners enroll. KISS is what they say!

Should they charge them a bunch of junk fees like Marriott does for point resales before they consider them to be qualified?

 

[dioxide45]

Don't forget enlightened self interest! That's always a good reason....

True, but I didn't want to point that out...

 

[dioxide45]

Should they charge them a bunch of junk fees like Marriott does for point resales before they consider them to be qualified?

If they allow enrollment of resale weeks, I could see them charging a fee for it where qualified VOIs could be free.

 

[Mroze]

For this reason, and this reason alone, I say they should just let all mandatory week owners enroll. KISS is what they say!

Would VSN then refund tens of thousands of $$$$ to those who paid to Qualify/Retro their resale [Mandatory/Voluntary] weeks?
What about Voluntary-Weeks owners? Why leave them out?

 

[dioxide45]

Would VSN then refund tens of thousands of $$$$ to those who paid to Qualify/Retro their resale [Mandatory/Voluntary] weeks?
What about Voluntary-Weeks owners? Why leave them out?

You don't make it sound so simple now.... But in 2010, Marriott didn't refund anyone that paid full price when they allowed resale owners to enroll. They just charged resale owners a higher fee.

I am all okay with allowing voluntary owners in too.

 

[daviator]

Would VSN then refund tens of thousands of $$$$ to those who paid to Qualify/Retro their resale [Mandatory/Voluntary] weeks?

You're smoking some really potent stuff up there in Seattle.

 

[Pathways]

For months (actually years now) everyone has opined as to what heck was taking so long for Marriott to combine these groups.

Now that they are close, I think the sheer number of scenarios presented by just our 'small' group on TUG really explains why it has taken sooooo long.