CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[TravelTime]

My thinking is similar. I own OF at WKORV and use it every year. imho, it's the best of the best.

Marriott apparently agrees with my ranking; the ~8300 DP's that Marriott will apparently offer for electing this unit is one of the highest in its system.

So how does Marriott intend to incentivize me to enroll this unit and maybe elect points for it from time to time? NOT by making me buy Westin Flex units with no real resale value, high MF's, and no access to the OF suites we want.

We shall see how this plays out. But unless Marriott steals unreserved OF inventory at the eight month mark, I don't see how it will acquire this specific inventory -- which is one of the locations it is touting as to-be-available for DC members post-merger.

Wouldn’t Marriott just be able to exercise ROFR on this inventory to get it into the trust at half price or less? If they do not exercise ROFR on Maui OF inventory, then I will assume they own a bunch already and it was not sold out.

I hate to say this and once again it will be controversial…but Tuggers sound like they think they are smarter than a corporation employed by experts. I am not talking about the lowly employees at the sales offices but the highly paid marketing and finance experts. I used to work for the corporate office of a travel corporation and believe me, they knew what they were doing.

 

[VacationForever]

The source of the inventory does not affect the booking rules of the Vistana system. If they allowed people to book earlier than 12 months, class action lawsuits would follow immediately. Marriott knows this. They didn't get where they are today by being stupid. They are just as risk adverse as the next big company with shareholders.

Time will tell.

 

[DanCali]

I hate to say this and once again it will be controversial…but Tuggers sound like they think they are smarter than a corporation employed by experts. I am not talking about the lowly employees at the sales offices but the highly paid marketing and finance experts. I used to work for the corporate office of a travel corporation and believe me, they knew what they were doing.

Corporations are smart but they are not always right... Some of us Vistana owners still remember when they tacked the new "3rd party guest confirmation fee" about 5 years ago for all Vistana reservations, including home resort reservations. I don't recall all the specific details (I wasn't keeping up with tug regularly at the time) but, apparently, that was in violation of the original Starwood Vacation Ownership Terms and Conditions which stated that rental of home resort reservations (or just letting your siblings/kids/parents use your deeded property) were generally a legitimate use, suggesting there should be no extra associated fees, and Vistana ultimately caved on that issue. They may have even refunded all those guest fees at the time. Now the guest fee applies only to Network (Staroptions) reservations. I believe Tuggers were quite vocal on that issue and probably highly instrumental in making things right.

So even with a bunch of smart finance, marketing and legal experts, they may sometimes try to push the boundaries and hope they don't get challenged. If they don't get called on it, it's more profitable to them and if they do get called out on it, they can just rectify the issue. But even in cases like this I still agree with you - they know exactly what they are doing...

P.S. Here is a link to that thread from 2017 - it has 20 pages of posts if you feel this thread is too short for you!

Recent Vistana email re third party users

Got this email yesterday a few minutes before 6PM, advising of a new policy for third party users. Just wondering if others got it. Also wondering if this is normal practice for Vistana to make changes with such short notice? I realize they need to control costs but this looks like another...

tugbbs.com

 

[remowidget]

I suspect that Marriott may try to flaunt that rule and allow 13 month reservations and hope to go unchallenged.

Would it be a problem to flaunt the rules with time they own? I don't know about other resorts, but they own a substantial amount of Lagunamar.

 

[rickandcindy23]

@Eric B
Sheraton Broadway Plantation is a bit different from other Vistana resorts (you don't know how I despise the "Vistana" name, which was the original name that Shell Vacations Club used when it started selling Vistana's older sections in FL). It was originally (I think) Embassy resorts and was sold as deeded weeks that were floating in their various seasons. The ability to book your deeded week at two years out is a reason buy a week in prime summer on the deed, like 24-32. Then you can reserve it two years ahead of time, and you even can deposit that week into RCI. That's how Embassy had it set up. And so many deposits are showing in RCI that it makes me crazy. Many summer weeks are on RCI.

But II deposits even with deeded weeks you reserve yourself are no longer deposited into II as your reserved week. We get the blended trading power of the 9-43, 47 season, which is okay for trading power, but not as good as it used to be. I never see summer weeks at SBP sitting online with II.

 

[daviator]

Would it be a problem to flaunt the rules with time they own? I don't know about other resorts, but they own a substantial amount of Lagunamar.

I think it would be a problem because they don’t own specific weeks (just like other owners don’t own specific weeks) – they own floating weeks within a particular category and season.

So unless they own 100% of the VOIs in a particular season – which they don’t – it wouldn’t be fair for them to book their ownerships 13 months ahead, because they’d be able to snap up all the most popular dates (and have the best priority time stamps for views, etc.) before the regular owners ever got to make reservations. That would seriously disadvantage the existing week and point (Aventuras) owners at Lagunamar and similarly at other resorts.

I just have a hard time seeing how they could do this fairly. It seems like it invites a lawsuit.

 

[remowidget]

I think it would be a problem because they don’t own specific weeks (just like other owners don’t own specific weeks) – they own floating weeks within a particular category and season.

So unless they own 100% of the VOIs in a particular season – which they don’t – it wouldn’t be fair for them to book their ownerships 13 months ahead, because they’d be able to snap up all the most popular dates (and have the best priority time stamps for views, etc.) before the regular owners ever got to make reservations. That would seriously disadvantage the existing week and point (Aventuras) owners at Lagunamar and similarly at other resorts.

I just have a hard time seeing how they could do this fairly. It seems like it invites a lawsuit.

Someone who seemed very knowledgeable about Marriott told me that they were very fair about this issue. Something like if Marriott owns 20% of a resort, they take 20% of each day, category, etc. No cherry picking.

 

[daviator]

Someone who seemed very knowledgeable about Marriott told me that they were very fair about this issue. Something like if Marriott owns 20% of a resort, they take 20% of each day, category, etc. No cherry picking.

I certainly hope that is true. And maybe it is.

 

[ocdb8r]

I suspect that Marriott may try to flaunt that rule and allow 13 month reservations and hope to go unchallenged.

It's funny because I had this same thought when the DC program launched; I thought - how can they allow anyone they pick to book 13 months out. I figured they either a) flaunted the rules and just went with it; or b) twisted some of then then existing rules that allowed certain multiple week owners to book 13 months out if booking consecutive weeks (or something to that effect).

However, for "b" while I know this was a rather common rule for MVC resorts, I didn't think it ALWAYS existed and was available for ALL mvc resorts. Also, there was never a rule permitting shorter stay reservations to be booked 13 months in advance, yet somehow Chairman's level owners have this ability in the DC program.

 

[DanCali]

Also, there was never a rule permitting shorter stay reservations to be booked 13 months in advance, yet somehow Chairman's level owners have this ability in the DC program.

Actually Chairman, Presidential, and Executive (basically 7000+ DC points) can all book 1+ nights at 13 months out.

 

[TravelTime]

Aren’t all destination point owners really owners of a portion of all the weeks at all the resorts? Are DP owners considered to be owners?

If MVC is giving booking advantages by level Chairman’s, Presidential, etc, wouldn‘t that mean a resale week owner with an unenrolled week and no status is going to be disadvantaged in booking?

 

[VacationForever]

Aren’t all destination point owners really owners of a portion of all the weeks at all the resorts? Are DP owners considered to be owners?

If MVC is giving booking advantages by level Chairman’s, Presidential, etc, wouldn‘t that mean a resale week owner with an unenrolled week and no status is going to be disadvantaged in booking?

I see it as different inventory pools. Trust owners are considered owners of all resorts.

 

[remowidget]

Aren’t all destination point owners really owners of a portion of all the weeks at all the resorts? Are DP owners considered to be owners?

If MVC is giving booking advantages by level Chairman’s, Presidential, etc, wouldn‘t that mean a resale week owner with an unenrolled week and no status is going to be disadvantaged in booking?

I don't think there really are resale Destination Points owners, not of the same level anyways. If you buy resale points, you have to pay a junk fee of like $3 a point. This gives you access to destination points. Not sure what happens if you don't pay, or if that is even possible.

 

[Captron]

@Eric B
Sheraton Broadway Plantation is a bit different from other Vistana resorts It was originally (I think) Embassy resorts and was sold as deeded weeks that were floating in their various seasons. The ability to book your deeded week at two years out is a reason buy a week in prime summer on the deed, like 24-32. Then you can reserve it two years ahead of time, and you even can deposit that week into RCI. That's how Embassy had it set up.

You are absolutely correct on all of the above, including the Embassy affiliation. I bought there pre-construction. The Embassy name was just a paid affiliation, not actual ownership by the company.

 

[dioxide45]

You are absolutely correct on all of the above, including the Embassy affiliation. I bought there pre-construction. The Embassy name was just a paid affiliation, not actual ownership by the company.

Yes, Embassy was just an agreement between Vistana at the time and Promus Hotel Corp to market timeshare resorts under the Embassy Vacation Resort, Hampton Vacation Resort, and Homewood Vacation Resort brands. Oddly, around the same time that Vistana sold to Starwood, Promus sold to Hilton Hotels Corp.

 

[timsi]

Someone who seemed very knowledgeable about Marriott told me that they were very fair about this issue. Something like if Marriott owns 20% of a resort, they take 20% of each day, category, etc. No cherry picking.

I highly doubt it.

 

[Negma]

Good post today on Marriott Forum From todays investor meeting

Abound! The combined Marriott/Vistana integrated exchange program now has a name.

Oh, I do like the name for whatever that's worth. The name is alright and makes sense to me, as in 'the resort exchange landscape abounds with new options'. I think the execs liked that.

tugbbs.com

 

[dioxide45]

Watching the MVW Investor Day presentation, they keep mentioning that the Abound program won't be any additional fee or cost to get into Abound. It also seems that it will be an annual election and not every owner will have to join Abound. Mainly because of the club fee involved. So it would seem that it will work just like when Marriott owners enrolled in DC starting in 2010. There will be a process to enroll in Abound and enrolling isn't mandatory.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

That's promising news for resale but I will believe it when I see it. Also want to ensure that we are not giving up our mandatory resale capability in the fine print by enrolling.

 

[dioxide45]

That's promising news for resale but I will believe it when I see it. Also want to ensure that we are not giving up our mandatory resale capability in the fine print by enrolling.

We don't know the eligibility specifics for enrollment. Discussion on the investor day call is very general and high level. It still seems that it will be an annual election for those that have enrolled in Abound.

 

[DanCali]

That's promising news for resale but I will believe it when I see it. Also want to ensure that we are not giving up our mandatory resale capability in the fine print by enrolling.

Well, that would totally kill the idea that WKORV owners are going to enroll in droves. Nobody wants the value of their 176K SO OF week to go from $30K-$35K to $3K-$5K overnight....

 

[Negma]

More from the Marriott call

Abound! The combined Marriott/Vistana integrated exchange program now has a name.

Oh, I do like the name for whatever that's worth. The name is alright and makes sense to me, as in 'the resort exchange landscape abounds with new options'. I think the execs liked that.

tugbbs.com

 

[rickandcindy23]

If we can just drop the name Vistana, which is such a stupid name.

 

[TravelTime]

Abound is a pretty good name. It is very very hard to find names. I did not like Bonvoy but in the end, the name becomes irrelevant. Now I like Bonvoy and can’t remember what it was before.

 

[M&MsDad2008]

I suspect that Marriott may try to flaunt that rule and allow 13 month reservations and hope to go unchallenged.

Class action attorneys love to go after companies like Marriott. If the documents provide purchasers would only compete against other owners at 12 months out, then it would seem very unlikely that there would be a 13 month window for MVC DP holders at a place like WKORV.