CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[DanCali]

I'm rethinking what he told me yesterday. He may have just said it was the online account login that will be the same once your ownership is loaded. That 8 digit customer number could just be for sales and marketing and they will assign a different 7 digit one as an owner account number. I guess we'll know shortly!

It could be an 8-digit number.

7-digit account numbers are limited to 9M accounts (if you start at 1000000), which is actually more like 4.5M ownerships given that an owner and their spouse get separate numbers. They may have decided all these new accounts warrant jumping to 8 digits.

 

[Eric B]

Woo Hoo! We made it to 100 pages!

 

[alexadeparis]

Just tried to logon and it let me but gave me an error message that the system is only for people with active ownerships

 

[William Seward]

Kozykritter - Am I still correct is assuming, that all Vistana point will be MVC points and the Vistana point system will be retired. At some point in the future.

 

[DanCali]

Kozykritter - Am I still correct is assuming, that all Vistana point will be MVC points and the Vistana point system will be retired. At some point in the future.

You can assume that if you want but I think it's totally unfounded. Doing that would create ill-will from pretty much all Vistana owners...

The two exchange systems can coexist side by side just like the DC system currently coexists with the Marriott Florida Club.

 

[jabberwocky]

Woo Hoo! We made it to 100 pages!

And yet do we really know much more than we did on page one?

 

[VacationForever]

Kozykritter - Am I still correct is assuming, that all Vistana point will be MVC points and the Vistana point system will be retired. At some point in the future.

Absolutely not. This is not what the 100 pages of posts have told us.

 

[Mowogo]

Kozykritter - Am I still correct is assuming, that all Vistana point will be MVC points and the Vistana point system will be retired. At some point in the future.

It won’t be retired but it will be starved over time. The amount of inventory available for VSN exchange will only go down as Voluntary ownerships are resold and owners switch to exchanging within MVC.

 

[kozykritter]

Kozykritter - Am I still correct is assuming, that all Vistana point will be MVC points and the Vistana point system will be retired. At some point in the future.

They are just combining the online access portion onto Marriott's IT platform. I don't think it's a sign of anything else at this point.

 

[jabberwocky]

It won’t be retired but it will be starved over time. The amount of inventory available for VSN exchange will only go down as Voluntary ownerships are resold and owners switch to exchanging within MVC.

This will take a very long time. When you think of how long the average owner holds onto their TS, my guess it you are looking at around 20 years before you even start to see an impact. By then who knows what MVC will even look like.

 

[Eric B]

inventory available for VSN exchange will only go down as Voluntary ownerships are resold

Any idea how many voluntary ownerships are resold as compared to deeded back, foreclosed, etc.? Thoughts on whether a more pronounced effect could be shifting in VSN availability to mandatory resorts if there is an appreciable proportion of voluntary ownerships being resold?

 

[kozykritter]

Woo Hoo! We made it to 100 pages!

Perhaps now we should start taking bets on how many pages we'll reach by the time the hard launch starts! I'll put my money on 106

 

[jabberwocky]

Perhaps now we should start taking bets on how many pages we'll reach by the time the hard launch starts! I'll put my money on 106

Maybe we should do an over/under?

 

[GregT]

Good afternoon TUG friends,

Out of respect for all of you (and a desire to learn more), I did a sales presentation today at MOC. I don’t think I’ve done one in 10+ years. It was actually quite pleasant (and I didn’t even get a gift for it).

As always, please accept the following comments with a grain of salt, they are my opinions and some are merely repetitive to what is already suspected.

1) I believe the start date will be delayed again, perhaps to Aug 15. Both reps believe July 1 is unrealistic.
2) Vistana resale weeks will not be grandfathered into the system (which is different than I had hoped)
3) Vistana resale weeks that closed prior to January 2022 can be requalified and eligible for enrollment
4) there is a progressive tier system - you have to buy 1,000 DC points ($13K?) to enroll a single Vistana week and then each additional week requires another 500 points purchase ($6,500?).
5) I have five weeks therefore I would have to purchase 3,000 points ($40K)
6) Because I have modest quality Starwood weeks (4 EOY Sheratons and an Annual SDO Gold plus) they are only worth 9,000 points EOY (worth 4,500 annualized points). That would be criminal if I did that and I would expect all of you to bring pitchforks if I spent $40K to enroll 4,500 annual points.
7) however it’s not as terrible if you have quality Non-VSN weeks that can now be more than just a week.
8) you receive Bonus Points for a purchase, and I was quoted 6,000 BPs to purchase 3,000 points. This is not trivial because those points can be utilized in a manner to offset your purchase price. For simplicity, assume 6,000 BPs are worth $4,500.

This does create an opportunity for the Starwood owner who has non-VSN weeks, closed before Jan 2022, who is blocked from VSN but can now get access to a different currency — which represents the future focus of the parent (sorry, not trying to antagonize, but it’s true) .

In this hypothetical, someone with three non-VSN weeks can buy 2,000 points ($26K?) and enroll those weeks. This Buyer also gets some BPs and still has the 2,000 annual points too that were purchased. That’s not terrible, if someone has $26K burning a hole in their pocket and no longer uses the weeks as originally purchased.

I continue to believe VSN will remain viable and be a source of reservations for years to come. Too many owners won’t want to give Marriott money and the system is more complicated than StarOptions. I expect many owners will use (or not use) as before. As an example, II is still viable source of trades 12 years on and there has been no dry up of reservations as predicted in 2010.

I have no idea if any of this is useful but I’m glad to have the knowledge. If I’d pulled the trigger on an SDO True Platinum and a WPORV resale, I would be looking at this with a different lens. Interesting stuff.

Best,

Greg

 

[GregT]

And hat tip to @dioxide45 for responding to questions (sent via text) during the meeting.

Good work Jeremy, greatly appreciated

Best,

Greg

 

[grgs]

If I’d pulled the trigger on an SDO True Platinum and a WPORV resale, I would be looking at this with a different lens. Interesting stuff.

Thanks for taking one for the and giving your update. Since it looks like a 2 bed True Plat SDO unit will only be assigned 2,375 DPs, I'm not sure how attractive that would be to enroll with an additional DP purchase. I don't remember what WPORV is supposedly assigned. Presumably a lot more than SDO.

 

[Venter]

Greg,

I can add that I think you are right regarding the 1000 points for first week and 500 for each week thereafter. I am in the process of requalifying some Vistana VOI's by purchasing a Marriott week. I said I would only buy of that is the case and it is in the contract. The salesman had to contact head office and showed me the emails that this will be done and the emails form part of the addendum. In one email they state that as long as the outcome in price is the same as if buying points for a first, second etc. week. The first week has to be 1000 points and then 500 per week thereafter.

Thanks for the pain you took.

 

[DanCali]

3) Vistana resale weeks that closed prior to January 2022 can be requalified and eligible for enrollment

This does create an opportunity for the Starwood owner who has non-VSN weeks, closed before Jan 2022, who is blocked from VSN but can now get access to a different currency — which represents the future focus of the parent (sorry, not trying to antagonize, but it’s true) .

Great info Greg! Thanks for posting all that.

I guess where I got a bit lost is what is so magical about January 2022? So Vistana resale weeks closed after Jan 2022 will never get an offer to be enrolled into the DC for a developer purchase? Or will the price just be higher? I'd think someone with resale weeks in the back pocket is always an opportunity for them to make a sale with these offers.

 

[tamu_bu]

believe the start date will be delayed again, perhaps to Aug 15. Both reps believe July 1 is unrealistic.

My prediction of July 84th still has a shot!

 

[kozykritter]

Right now they are selling 1000 pts for $15,260 after a 5% discount. That level of points doesn't qualify for any credits like an Encore payment or hotel stay credit as you have to purchase a minimum of 1,500 points for those to activate.

They are offering an incentive of 2000 plus points the value of which is a matter of perspective. I use the DC point maintenance fee of about 63 cents which works out to $1,260 though you could also use the point rental cost which is often between 65 and 70 cents.

 

[GregT]

Greg,

I can add that I think you are right regarding the 1000 points for first week and 500 for each week thereafter. I am in the process of requalifying some Vistana VOI's by purchasing a Marriott week. I said I would only buy of that is the case and it is in the contract. The salesman had to contact head office and showed me the emails that this will be done and the emails form part of the addendum. In one email they state that as long as the outcome in price is the same as if buying points for a first, second etc. week. The first week has to be 1000 points and then 500 per week thereafter.

Thanks for the pain you took.

Good work and congrats - out of curiosity, what is the week you purchased?

Best,

Greg

 

[GregT]

Great info Greg! Thanks for posting all that.

I guess where I got a bit lost is what is so magical about January 2022? So Vistana resale weeks closed after Jan 2022 will never get an offer to be enrolled into the DC for a developer purchase? Or will the price just be higher? I'd think someone with resale weeks in the back pocket is always an opportunity for them to make a sale with these offers.

Dan,

I totally agree - today’s “limit” is weeks purchased by Jan - 2022 and it is very possible that down the road, that may change. May require a negotiation.

But this is today’s structure and gives us a framework for discussion. But I agree with your sentiment and recall when Marriott would “never” allow a post June 2010 to be enrolled. Obviously no longer the case.

Best,

Greg

 

[Venter]

Los Suenos platinum.

One of my 'weeks' is a Westin Flex that closed in May 2022.

 

[GregT]

Los Suenos platinum.

One of my 'weeks' is a Westin Flex that closed in May 2022.

Very interesting on both counts -- great property and congratulations!!!!

Best,

Greg

 

[DanCali]

Dan,

I totally agree - today’s “limit” is weeks purchased by Jan - 2022 and it is very possible that down the road, that may continue. May require a negotiation.

But this is today’s structure and gives us a framework for discussion. But I agree with your sentiment and recall when Marriott would “never” allow a post June 2010 to be enrolled. Obviously no longer the case.

Best,

Greg

I guess we'll see, although now that I think about it it's somewhat consistent with what we were recently told at a discussion at Playa Andaluza. I was telling them I am not buying anything retail because there are a couple of more resale weeks we are considering adding first and they said they would have needed to be added before 2022 to be eligible for enrollment. I didn't really think too much of that comment at the time other than an excuse to get me to buy, but it makes more sense now... Don't think it will last, if it's even a rule at all.