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[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

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Tucsonadventurer

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In the interview he said it could be 6 months to a year before they open. He doesn't want to reopen and then have to close again. We booked for the month of Jan but will everything can be canceled if need be
 

CalGalTraveler

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I could envision Maui and Kauai enacting some restrictions. I don't see how it could work for Honolulu economy. Big business for Asian and Australian tourists flying into Honolulu to shop the outlet stores. Also destination weddings.
 

csodjd

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How 'bout 150% hotel tax, that does not apply to timeshares? Or whatever other tax one could apply to hotels only? There's got to be ways to only tax certain businesses or otherwise levy fees, perhaps an annual permit that's super expensive, monthly inspections, name it. Maybe there will be lawsuits, that doesn't mean it can't or even shouldn't be done.

Half the customers with same revenue sounds like a very worthy goal to me if you are trying to not only protect your state from viruses and health issues, but also overuse, etc.
An easy start is a tax that applies to any stay of 5 (or whatever) nights or less. Another would be a tax on visitors from a foreign country. The idea is make it more expensive to come, which will result in fewer visitors. In San Francisco restaurants have a "benefits" tax that they add to the bills to pay for healthcare benefits for their employees. Hawaii could impose a "benefits" tax that generates revenue that they can then use for the benefit of residents.
 

csodjd

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In the interview he said it could be 6 months to a year before they open. He doesn't want to reopen and then have to close again. We booked for the month of Jan but will everything can be canceled if need be
That may be wishful thinking. I cannot imagine that you can put all those hotels in mothballs for a year and expect there to be employees ready to go when they decide to open. They'll have long earlier been forced into different jobsor moved back to the mainland or wherever. That's not even considering whether an airline like Hawaiian would even exist in a year, or most of the restaurants that cater to tourists.
 

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For arguments sake lets say they they remove 14 day quarantine end of June. July 1 no quarantine. Would the people who showed up on June 29th, be Released from quarantine as of July 1?

I dont think I’ve seen anything about hotels/timeshares timetable yet, or what parameters will be required.
 

DeniseM

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It's very unlikely to be July 1. On Friday, the state legislature approved funding to install fever montoring equipment at the Hawaii airports, and the earliest it could potentially be ready is in 2 months. I don't think they will eliminate the 14 day quarantine until that monitoring process is up and running reliably.
 

Tamaradarann

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For arguments sake lets say they they remove 14 day quarantine end of June. July 1 no quarantine. Would the people who showed up on June 29th, be Released from quarantine as of July 1?

I dont think I’ve seen anything about hotels/timeshares timetable yet, or what parameters will be required.

I don't think there has been any decree about hotels/timeshares at all. Since the beginning I believe that hotels/timeshares have been considered a shelter for either the shelter in place directive or the 14 day quarantine requirement. Remaining in Hotel rooms and timeshare apartments are not a desease spreading threat. Leaving them is.
 

Tamaradarann

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It's very unlikely to be July 1. On Friday, the state legislature approved funding to install fever montoring equipment at the Hawaii airports, and the earliest it could potentially be ready is in 2 months. I don't think they will eliminate the 14 day quarantine until that monitoring process is up and running reliably.

I totally agree with you that the will NOT lift the 14 day quarantine as a July 1 and they are waiting for some type of relyable monitoring for incoming people to the island to be put in place. However, I am wondering why Governor Ige hasn't even set a date for moving to Stage 3 of the opening up of businesses to the local people. Perhaps that will be July 1.
 

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For arguments sake lets say they they remove 14 day quarantine end of June. July 1 no quarantine. Would the people who showed up on June 29th, be Released from quarantine as of July 1?

This from frank808:
Yes if you arrive on June 30 you have 14 day quarantine and persons arriving July 1 or later would be quarantine free. That is how the state treated the quarantine when first issued in March. This arriving the day before were fine and those arriving 12 hours later would be subject to 14 day quarantine.
 

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However, I am wondering why Governor Ige hasn't even set a date for moving to Stage 3 of the opening up of businesses to the local people. Perhaps that will be July 1.

The article says that between each stage of the plan, there will be a 14 day evaluation period to make sure that there is not an increase in Coronavirus infections. If there is an increase, then more restrictive steps may have to be put back into place. Because of that, I don't think they can say exactly when the next stage will begin. My guest is that the State Gov. doesn't want to be locked into a date, because some people would insist on moving forward on that date, even if Coronavirus situation doesn't support it.
 

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I listened to an interesting and informative Q&A with the Mayor of Maui County today. His take home points are as follows. Tourism must return, the island cannot survive without it. They made the mistake in the past of allowing quantity to overwhelm quality. They view this event as a way to change their trajectory, and focus on quality tourism -- people that come for longer times, stay and spend more money, etc. -- rather than quantity. He sees perhaps a 50% reduction in the number of available rental cars, reducing traffic considerably. He prefers timeshare owners because they tend to stay longer, come frequently, and care more as an owner, over hotel guests. So they are looking at how they can reopen with fewer people that stay and spend more.

As for what it takes to reopen, that wasn't that complicated. He said they need to do their best to keep sick people from arriving, so testing at departure, and quick testing and isolation of anyone that gets sick to prevent any clusters from breaking out. They can handle the sick person here and there, they just don't want that person having the time to spread it to 15 others. So they are looking at reduced numbers of people in gatherings, at restaurants, etc.
How exactly does he plan to put "quality over quantity" into action? It seems difficult and subjective. How does he decide if someone is quality?
 

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The article says that between each stage of the plan, there will be a 14 day evaluation period to make sure that there is not an increase in Coronavirus infections. If there is an increase, then more restrictive steps may have to be put back into place. Because of that, I don't think they can say exactly when the next stage will begin. My guest is that the State Gov. doesn't want to be locked into a date, because some people would insist on moving forward on that date, even if Coronavirus situation doesn't support it.
It is indeed an odd policy currently where they have virtually zero infections. No new ones statewide yesterday. The only two in recent days were residents arriving from the mainland, and, of course, they had to be quarantined. So what are they "evaluating" for 14 days I wonder? At this point they have the best infection situation and control in the US. June will just be more of May... any new cases will have arrived from a flight in, and since all arriving have to be quarantined, spread is almost impossible (except within the home of the arriving person).
 

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How exactly does he plan to put "quality over quantity" into action? It seems difficult and subjective. How does he decide if someone is quality?
By "quality" I think they just mean will or does spend more. I suspect they have great data on spending with profiles of who spends, where they come from, how long they stay, where they stay, etc. I'm sure they know the "buyers" (tourists) of their "products" (tourism) well. Using that kind of data they can adjust marketing, taxes, etc., to encourage what they want and discourage what they don't.
 

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I hope he's not setting aside the concept of learning to live with and contain COVID as an unaccepable option and providing policy only with the goal of not having it at all. Most every state, and more and more countries (see, e.g., Italy) are accepting that going forward the infection will exist and they are learning to live with it, making policy and taking reasonable steps to prevent it from getting out of control. Hawaii, because of their strong actions, is probably better positioned to do that today than any other state.
 

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So.....This is a picture of my niece in Waikiki. She is a professional dancer and also a full time student at Columbia in NYC. She teaches Pilates to all the upper east side ladies to support herself while going through school. Once her college classes moved online and NYC became a tough place to live, she networked and found someone who rented her a cheap apartment in Hawaii.

She has moved there for the time being (and yes, she quarantined for 14 days upon her arrival) and is finishing up her Columbia coursework while teaching online Pilates classes. She's living her best life. She's a vegan and has been going on and on about how wonderful the farmers markets are in Hawaii.
1589912701231.png
 

beachlynn

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By "quality" I think they just mean will or does spend more. I suspect they have great data on spending with profiles of who spends, where they come from, how long they stay, where they stay, etc. I'm sure they know the "buyers" (tourists) of their "products" (tourism) well. Using that kind of data they can adjust marketing, taxes, etc., to encourage what they want and discourage what they don't.
I know what the Mayor means by 'quality" but there doesn't seem to be any practical way to quantify and regulate that. I mean does he think people are going to show their W2 and bring their receipts from their previous stay before they can book a vacation? And for people implying that tourists who save up their money for their special trip to Hawai'i are all bumpkins who trash the island are ignorant. [redacted] People who litter come in all shapes, sizes and bank accounts. Don't even get me going on the people in their fancy sports cars flicking cigarette butts.
I have been to Maui as young 22 yr old bride in the early 80's for a week long honeymoon because that is what was gifted to us. It was a darling condo in Maui, the Kula Kane which is still there. We were clean, we spent the money we had saved up and loved it. We have rented a luxury home and are still the same people we were in the 80's. Please don't paint people with a broad brush. It isn't fair.
 

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How exactly does he plan to put "quality over quantity" into action?
By enacting policy mechanisms that attempt to encourage the type of visitor they want, and discourage the type of visitor they don't. For example, if they wanted to encourage longer stays, they could change the form of TAT (or add a new lodging tax) that charged a non-trival amount on a per-stay basis, not a per-night basis.
 

bnoble

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Most every state, and more and more countries (see, e.g., Italy) are accepting that going forward the infection will exist and they are learning to live with it,
Partly that's because those states/countries couldn't easily seal off their land borders to others and/or it's just too late. Hawaii doesn't have either of those problems. It might not be the choice I'd hope for as potential visitors, but I can't say that it's irrational.
 

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Partly that's because those states/countries couldn't easily seal off their land borders to others and/or it's just too late. Hawaii doesn't have either of those problems. It might not be the choice I'd hope for as potential visitors, but I can't say that it's irrational.
I'd say definitely not irrational in March/April.

But, today is not March 1. Today we know much about transmission. We know symptoms. We have testing. We are aware of asymptomatic spread. We are wearing face coverings. We are socially distancing. And, Hawaii is almost, if not entirely, free of infection. Notably, even before ANY of those things, with unrestricted tourism, Hawaii handled it perhaps better than any other state in terms of deaths, cases, etc. They never ran out of beds or ventilators. They had the lowest per capita death rate in the United States and only Montana has fewer cases per capita. Hawaii defended against the virus DESPITE tens of thousands of tourists from across the world coming in during Jan, Feb, and March -- with NO mitigation measures in place, and a LOT of undiagnosed disease out there. So, basically, Hawaii won.

My point is, what was very rationale then may not be rational in July or August. At some point it is no longer rational. Fear is not a good policy driver. Perhaps if there were not a significant downside it might be. But at some point the economic injury to the PEOPLE that live and work there becomes irreparable.

To play a mind game, let's assume there are no more new cases in Hawaii during the remainder of May. And let's assume that continues into mid-June, almost 30 days from now. No cases. Under that hypothetical, would it THEN be irrational to say Hawaii needs to continue to have essentially sealed borders (the impact of 14-day quarantine) to tourists?

On the flip side, Hawaii could mandate hotels/timeshares could open to 30% capacity and require all visitors to certify that the got tested within 2 days of departure, and require that proof of a negative test be shown upon arrival. They can impose restrictions on dine-in locations and at other "high risk" locations. No big gatherings. They may get some active cases -- but 10 or 15 are manageable. The alternative is to wait until vaccination and require proof of vaccination before they open up. That's an economic disaster.
 

amy241

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I'd say definitely not irrational in March/April.

But, today is not March 1. Today we know much about transmission. We know symptoms. We have testing. We are aware of asymptomatic spread. We are wearing face coverings. We are socially distancing. And, Hawaii is almost, if not entirely, free of infection. Notably, even before ANY of those things, with unrestricted tourism, Hawaii handled it perhaps better than any other state in terms of deaths, cases, etc. They never ran out of beds or ventilators. They had the lowest per capita death rate in the United States and only Montana has fewer cases per capita. Hawaii defended against the virus DESPITE tens of thousands of tourists from across the world coming in during Jan, Feb, and March -- with NO mitigation measures in place, and a LOT of undiagnosed disease out there. So, basically, Hawaii won.

My point is, what was very rationale then may not be rational in July or August. At some point it is no longer rational. Fear is not a good policy driver. Perhaps if there were not a significant downside it might be. But at some point the economic injury to the PEOPLE that live and work there becomes irreparable.

To play a mind game, let's assume there are no more new cases in Hawaii during the remainder of May. And let's assume that continues into mid-June, almost 30 days from now. No cases. Under that hypothetical, would it THEN be irrational to say Hawaii needs to continue to have essentially sealed borders (the impact of 14-day quarantine) to tourists?

On the flip side, Hawaii could mandate hotels/timeshares could open to 30% capacity and require all visitors to certify that the got tested within 2 days of departure, and require that proof of a negative test be shown upon arrival. They can impose restrictions on dine-in locations and at other "high risk" locations. No big gatherings. They may get some active cases -- but 10 or 15 are manageable. The alternative is to wait until vaccination and require proof of vaccination before they open up. That's an economic disaster.

Many timeshare owners are legacy weeks owners (as I am) who have a vested property right in their week (as opposed to a Right to Use in a points program). If a resort opens up and allows only 30% occupancy, what happens to those owners with an actual property interest who do not get to use their property due to the occupancy cap and have now been deprived of that property without due process of law? I see some issues here as a lawyer.
 

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*Multiple posts have been moved to this thread from the Hawaii Travel News Updates thread.

Clarification: My goal is to keep that thread uncluttered so that the latest travel news doesn't get buried in discussions.
 
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Many timeshare owners are legacy weeks owners (as I am) who have a vested property right in their week (as opposed to a Right to Use in a points program). If a resort opens up and allows only 30% occupancy, what happens to those owners with an actual property interest who do not get to use their property due to the occupancy cap and have now been deprived of that property without due process of law? I see some issues here as a lawyer.
Well the easy answer is, the government would say, it's up to the TS entity to deal with that. They aren't infringing on anyone's rights. They are issuing a public health order. Moreover, unless you have a fixed week, your vested property right is not a right to any given week, just to a week in a year. I suspect the TS entities could "do the math" and meet the demand and ensure you get your week, though it may not be the week you want. But that's just like today. I'd love to pick my week at the MOC, but I have to try and grab it at 6:00am 12 months to the day or its gone. So I don't see any "taking" issues. No more so than red flagging a dangerous building.
 

Luanne

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Many timeshare owners are legacy weeks owners (as I am) who have a vested property right in their week (as opposed to a Right to Use in a points program). If a resort opens up and allows only 30% occupancy, what happens to those owners with an actual property interest who do not get to use their property due to the occupancy cap and have now been deprived of that property without due process of law? I see some issues here as a lawyer.
The resort I own on Maui has fixed weeks. They shut down for the entire month of May. They suggested that owners bank their weeks with one of the exchange companies. I'm sure the trade company they work with the most, Trading Places Maui, is scrambling to find other weeks for owners.
 
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