Cheated out of first year use of resale

[rayreavis]

Buyer beware. I bought a resale at Oakmont in Pigeon Forge, TN through the seller named timeshares4u on eBay. It was a good deal, cheap maintenance fees, and it's a property my daughter and I will enjoy for several years. The problem is the timeshare was listed as *FREE 2019 USE* in the title and description of the auction. Yet today when I called the resort to confirm that I was good to use my fixed week, I was told that week was deposited into RCI.

On one hand, it's not a big deal. I paid nothing for it, and won't have to pay maintenance fees until 2020. However, one thing attractive about this was the thoughts of having a place my daughter and I could spend the week of Father's Day in, and she was really looking forward to this trip. Bummer.

I'm going to email the ebay seller and also snail mail the sellers since I have their address on the title work and express my displeasure. I wouldn't go as far as to say I was scammed because I've read enough to know that sometimes transfers take awhile and in the back of my mind I knew there was a chance I wouldn't get my 2019 week.

Ray

 

[Aurelius]

Buyer beware. I bought a resale at Oakmont in Pigeon Forge, TN through the seller named timeshares4u on eBay. It was a good deal, cheap maintenance fees, and it's a property my daughter and I will enjoy for several years. The problem is the timeshare was listed as *FREE 2019 USE* in the title and description of the auction. Yet today when I called the resort to confirm that I was good to use my fixed week, I was told that week was deposited into RCI.

On one hand, it's not a big deal. I paid nothing for it, and won't have to pay maintenance fees until 2020. However, one thing attractive about this was the thoughts of having a place my daughter and I could spend the week of Father's Day in, and she was really looking forward to this trip. Bummer.

I'm going to email the ebay seller and also snail mail the sellers since I have their address on the title work and express my displeasure. I wouldn't go as far as to say I was scammed because I've read enough to know that sometimes transfers take awhile and in the back of my mind I knew there was a chance I wouldn't get my 2019 week.

Ray

I recently purchased from this eBay seller without issue, but I did speak with the closing agent by phone (Dawn) and she said they guarantee that everything in the auction description is accurate. If not they’ll make it right. I would ask that they either book that week for you or pay you the equivalent of the 2019 MF.

 

[rayreavis]

I'll do that. I'll email her tomorrow.

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[montygz]

Before flaming an ebay seller on a message forum, I suggest contacting the seller first to make sure any issues you are having can be resolved.

 

[SteelerGal]

Definitely contact. I had a wonderful experience. Requested sale sheet and copy of final deed w/out question. I am sure it was a misunderstanding.

 

[rayreavis]

Before flaming an ebay seller on a message forum, I suggest contacting the seller first to make sure any issues you are having can be resolved.

I didn't "flame" an eBay seller. I stated facts.
Fact 1: the description of the item stated that 2019 usage was available.

Fact 2: 2019 usage of that item is not available per the resort

I'm going to give them a chance to make it right. But since eBay feedback is closed by the time the transaction closes there is no way to comment on that system. And even if they make it right, I think it's helpful to warn others to check into this when purchasing on the resale market. I kind of assumed that was the closing agent's responsibility to check this upon transfer.

I will report the outcome no matter which way it goes.

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[bnoble]

I didn't "flame" an eBay seller. I stated facts.

Well, you also said you were cheated. That, to me, implies intent. It could also have been a mistake, and if you had just posted the facts followed with a "what should I do" you wouldn't have been called out on it.

 

[rayreavis]

The word "cheated" is a bit loaded, I admit. I was trying to find a way to summarize in the subject which is tough (makes me appreciate headline editors).

I have no idea if it was an oversight of the selling broker who listed it incorrectly, an oversight on the closer, or if the owners didn't realize that they had agreed to not use/deposit that week. Either way I was shorted, maybe that's the word I should have used.

I'm wondering if there is something else a buyer can do when buying a resale. Maybe I should have called the resort prior to signing. I'm not sure they would even tell me anything because until it's in my name is not my business whether Jane Doe has deposited her week.

I'm curious what others do?

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[Aurelius]

The word "cheated" is a bit loaded, I admit. I was trying to find a way to summarize in the subject which is tough (makes me appreciate headline editors).

I have no idea if it was an oversight of the selling broker who listed it incorrectly, an oversight on the closer, or if the owners didn't realize that they had agreed to not use/deposit that week. Either way I was shorted, maybe that's the word I should have used.

I'm wondering if there is something else a buyer can do when buying a resale. Maybe I should have called the resort prior to signing. I'm not sure they would even tell me anything because until it's in my name is not my business whether Jane Doe has deposited her week.

I'm curious what others do?

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I understand being upset when discovering what happened I think we all would be.

This particular eBay reseller takes in “trade-in” purchases from developer sales. The original owner is instructed/contracted to cease use of the original timeshare. Just like you, the reseller has limited ability to verify usage. They should in theory have recourse with the developer.

Unfortunately estoppels don’t typically show if weeks are banked and resorts typically won’t talk to non owners.

 

[rayreavis]

This particular eBay reseller takes in “trade-in” purchases from developer sales.

That's interesting. I didn't even realize developers took trades.


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[Aurelius]

Looks like that week is up for rent on eBay. Perhaps tell them if they rent it for you, you’ll consider it resolved.

 

[rayreavis]

Looks like that week is up for rent on eBay. Perhaps tell them if they rent it for you, you’ll consider it resolved.

I saw that but that is actually the week prior. Actually if the broker can find us anything within a decent distance I'd take it. My daughter is 13 so we'll have plenty of weeks in pigeon forge in the future.



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[brianfox]

First year usage of a resale week has to be handled carefully.
If buyer pays MF for 2019, then they have sole use of the 2019 week.
In this case, buyer is not paying MF until 2020, so the 2019 use is being offered as an incentive to buy.
So the sales contract should have explicitly called out what was to happen with the 2019 week.
For instance: Seller has reserved week XX of year 2019 (confirmation number YYYYYY) to be transferred to buyer at closing.
Or: In addition to the week purchased, the 2019 year use is part of this sale, and right to use 2019 week will be conferred to buyer at closing.

At least, that's what should be done when the seller is a person. This case is a bit trickier. I hope someone (Ebay seller, developer) makes it up to you

 

[Saintsfanfl]

This can always happen and there is nothing the seller can really do about it because it could in theory happen on the last day the previous owner has control. If you buy from a reputable seller they are going to make it right. There really shouldn’t be any worries about it. I’ve bought in this situation many times and it has worked out almost every time. The couple times it didn’t the seller reimbursed me the value.

This is not to be confused with free usage not guaranteed, which happens when available weeks are no longer there due to timing. When you go to take usage in this situation and the reason is no available weeks it is what it is. But if the previous owner deposited that is completely different.

 

[RLS50]

Do you mean RCI Points or RCI Weeks when you say you found out the week was deposited in RCI?

If RCI Weeks then this was something the seller had to proactively initiate themselves in their RCI account and it would be hard to believe they didn't realize the next years usage was not available. This is also something that should have been flagged on any Estoppel.

But if you are talking RCI Points this is not an uncommon problem on resale weeks in the RCI Points system. Especially if the new owner is not a RCI member in RCI Points, or doesn't want the specific week being purchased to be in RCI Points. I know many people love and effectively use RCI Points, but I am not an RCI member and don't want to be.

The problem I have found with buying weeks in RCI Points is that many longtime owners who are selling their weeks (especially thru 3rd party resellers on Ebay and elsewhere) is that they don't even understand anymore how their RCI Points membership works. RCI will automatically take an owners week and deposit it in points at something like the 12 month or 11 month out mark unless the owner explicitly informs RCI that they plan on using their home week and do NOT want it deposited in RCI Points that year. So sometimes owners who are older or who haven't really been using their timeshare for some years don't realize that when they go to sell their week they need to either (1) end their RCI Points ownership for that specific deeded week they want to get rid of, or (2) make sure the next year's week is not automatically sucked into the RCI Points program so the new owner can decide what they want to do with the usage going forward.

And frequently Estoppels will NOT give you the correct information when it comes to deeded weeks in RCI Points because there is a disconnect to visibility between corporate Owner Services, the specific resort, and the Reseller / Owner / Buyer. You typically find out only AFTER you own the week and you get a call from the resort telling you that your usage week was deposited into RCI Points many months ago.

What is even worse, is that even when you are the new owner and the deed and unit has been transferred to you, RCI will not pull your new owned week from their RCI Points program. That is because their records still show it as owned by the previous owner and you can't speak for the previous owners RCI Account. This makes a certain amount of sense from RCI's standpoint that you can't modify another owner's RCI account, but it can create a logistical nightmare for you if you are the new owner and force you to jump thru multiple hoops to fix the problem. So you either have to go back to the former owner and get them to help you after the fact remove the week from their RCI Points membership, or you have to work with your resort and have them send RCI a notice to remove your week from their RCI Points program. That way if RCI tries to pull it into their Points program anyway (and this has actually happened to me), you have a record with the resort and the resort will tell RCI that they have to fix the problem on their end and assist their member who traded into your week via Points and find them a replacement because they weren't supposed to take it. So will get your deeded week in that case, but will have to get involved and work with your resort to "take it back" from RCI.

And many times it isn't the resellers fault entirely. Some legacy owners don't tell them (because they don't even remember anymore how the RCI Points program works), the Estoppel frequently doesn't show the problem and shows the next years use as available, and many resellers don't have experience with this specific issue, so they don't even understand how RCI Points automatically takes the weeks almost a year in advance, until the problem comes up after the transfer.

It can be a mess. I have dealt with this with multiple resellers. Fortunately in every instance I was made whole one way or the other, and in no instance did the resellers ever do this on purpose. They didn't know either.

 

[RX8]

To the OP, has the eBay seller responded to you?

 

[DRIless]

Well, "trade ins" are taken by many developers, especially in Mexico, some screw you and never take your trade, they just give you the new product at what they would have given it to you anyway at some point in the negotiations. Also likely that the eBay seller is a Viking Ship company and is happy to offload it whatever the cost or incentive before they set it afire. eBay seller should somehow satisfy you as to the Free 2019 Use issue !!!

 

[Aurelius]

Well, "trade ins" are taken by many developers, especially in Mexico, some screw you and never take your trade, they just give you the new product at what they would have given it to you anyway at some point in the negotiations. Also likely that the eBay seller is a Viking Ship company and is happy to offload it whatever the cost or incentive before they set it afire. eBay seller should somehow satisfy you as to the Free 2019 Use issue !!!

This is a legitimate eBay seller that I have purchased from without issue. The closing agent is based out of Branson.

 

[DRIless]

This is a legitimate eBay seller that I have purchased from without issue. The closing agent is based out of Branson.

I understand that you like this eBay seller and I never said that they weren't a "legitimate" seller on eBay.

I don't think that any VOLUME seller on eBay doesn't get their inventory from nefarious developers or Post Card Companies and sets sail and burns their unsold inventory. Double negative intended.

 

[Jan M.]

If the week was deposited in RCI then the account would have received TPUs, Trading Power Units, for the week deposited. Were those TPUs transferred to you or used by the previous owner?

 

[heathpack]

Whoops wrong thread

 

[rayreavis]

UPDATE:

the seller (closing company) has contacted the previous owners and she says she says:
"I gave RCI your email so please be on the look out for an email from them to set up your account. I paid the fees to create an account for you plus to transfer the week."

So I guess that means it was deposited as a week. So the selling agent seems to be doing what is needed to make me whole.

It was a free unit with 2019 mf paid anyway so I'm really not too worried about the money part of it. The biggest thing is I was planning on using that week. I should have called as soon as the transfer was complete so I would have known sooner.

Hopefully I'll figure it all out soon. If the unit is deposited I suppose it is only useful to me if it hasn't already been reserved through RCI. Though I could then use the credit for something else.

If I end up with just a credit my daughter and I may just go camping that week and I can use the credit another time. Does the time I have to use the credit depend on when the original owners deposited it?

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[Saintsfanfl]

I should have called as soon as the transfer was complete so I would have known sooner.

No, you should find out sooner than post transfer. You want to find out what "free usage" means after you first agree to purchase. If it is a good deal I wouldn't wait to find this out before you agree but you also do not want to put too much value in that advertised "free usage" before you take the plunge.

Any deal offering free usage in the same year that you are purchasing has it's own set of issues. What week would still be available? In the timeshare resale industry "Free Use" only truly means "free use" if there is an existing reservation that can and will be transferred. It still requires cooperation among multiple (usually at least three) parties.

Free use is ALWAYS a crap shoot. You generally want to value free use at 25%-40% of the maintenance fee. My realized value has been higher but I like to be conservative.

 

[Aurelius]

UPDATE:

the seller (closing company) has contacted the previous owners and she says she says:
"I gave RCI your email so please be on the look out for an email from them to set up your account. I paid the fees to create an account for you plus to transfer the week."

So I guess that means it was deposited as a week. So the selling agent seems to be doing what is needed to make me whole.

It was a free unit with 2019 mf paid anyway so I'm really not too worried about the money part of it. The biggest thing is I was planning on using that week. I should have called as soon as the transfer was complete so I would have known sooner.

Hopefully I'll figure it all out soon. If the unit is deposited I suppose it is only useful to me if it hasn't already been reserved through RCI. Though I could then use the credit for something else.

If I end up with just a credit my daughter and I may just go camping that week and I can use the credit another time. Does the time I have to use the credit depend on when the original owners deposited it?

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Looks like they’re doing their best to fix it. If nothing else you’d at least get the TPU value of the deposit which you can roll forward to next year. Thanks for the update!

 

[jon-Paul Jones]

I had the same issue with the same seller.

It turned out the selling couple did not communicate with each other and one of them deposited into RCI.

I can't accept a deposited week. I count on that free week for rent.

The seller had the previous owners mail me a check for the following years maintenance fees.

Timeshares4You has been a very good seller to me.