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This was my specific concern about MVC converting to points. They were just creating a currency with which they can set prices. We never purchased points-just enrolled our weeks-and love the flexibility when we want to use points. But, I'd hate to buy a set of points that can get a week at Aruba Surf Club today in February but cannot in three years. With weeks, that wasn't a concern.
Thank you everyone for this awakening! What is being described is completely different than what was sold to me. Even after asking the explicit question. Did I examine "page 438 subsection b" of the offering documents. No. But I expect a question, once asked, to be answered in a forthright manner.
The more I learn about MVC the more disillusioned I become. This is a fraud. There is no other way to explain it. The only reason I purchased $45,000 worth of points was because it was explained to me that I would forever pay the same amount in points per night. Even if transferred to my children. I had this exact conversation with two different sales reps. This was the major selling point. Otherwise there is no other plausible reason for giving them $45,000. I knew the maintenance fees would rise, but not the per night charges. Whatever the point chart was in 2015 when I bought..I was told would be my forever costs. No one ever intimated that the price for good weeks will rise but MVC will compensate for that by decreasing the cost of undesirable weeks.
$45,000 doesn't change my life, but I feel like a moron for falling for this. In all of my business years negotiating contracts and everything else, I have NEVER been lied to like I have been in this relationship. Shame on Marriott Vacation Club for perpetrating this fraud...but the shame is really on me for falling for it.
This is the main reason I stick to my mandatory Vistana Staroptions holdings. You own the best of two worlds in points and week. Don't get me wrong that I still love Marriott deeded weeks, but will never consider DC points.
Thank you everyone for this awakening! What is being described is completely different than what was sold to me. Even after asking the explicit question. Did I examine "page 438 subsection b" of the offering documents. No. But I expect a question, once asked, to be answered in a forthright manner.
The more I learn about MVC the more disillusioned I become. This is a fraud. There is no other way to explain it. The only reason I purchased $45,000 worth of points was because it was explained to me that I would forever pay the same amount in points per night. Even if transferred to my children. I had this exact conversation with two different sales reps. This was the major selling point. Otherwise there is no other plausible reason for giving them $45,000. I knew the maintenance fees would rise, but not the per night charges. Whatever the point chart was in 2015 when I bought..I was told would be my forever costs. No one ever intimated that the price for good weeks will rise but MVC will compensate for that by decreasing the cost of undesirable weeks.
$45,000 doesn't change my life, but I feel like a moron for falling for this. In all of my business years negotiating contracts and everything else, I have NEVER been lied to like I have been in this relationship. Shame on Marriott Vacation Club for perpetrating this fraud...but the shame is really on me for falling for it.
As @Steve Fatula said above, try not to overreact to the possibility of changes to the points schedule. In ten years, the changes have been very limited and very modest. More what I would call tweaks and fine tuning, not major reshuffling. From a practical standpoint, the chart has been basically static for all intents and purposes. Could they make larger changes than they have to date? - sure they could, but at least up to now the basic premise of what you were sold is still intact.
I have also experienced the fact that the points values have not changed since I purchased. I was reacting to the possibility mentioned on this thread that they could change when I was told they would never.
year
to year as a result of the number of weekends that occur during that year, leap years, the occurrence of
“Week 53” as defined in the Component Declarations, and which day of the week a holiday occurs. As a
I don't think any increases have occurred to the overall point requirements for the highest seasons. Although there have been changes for the specific nights within a given week, I'm not aware of any total weekly point requirements within a season. I would be concerned if this actually happened.
There are some nice bargains point wise, if you choose the lower demand days in certain holiday season weeks. For example, I grab the same 3 nights at the NYC Pulse, just before a Christmas surcharge takes effect later in the week. The points required on the days I check out are multiple times greater than what I was charged. It is a nice way to work the system. Look for the highest demand nights and then side step them, such as New Years Eve, Presidents' week days, and when schools are out, like summer or Easter.
I am still interested to hear what the specific change is that the OP is referencing. What went up in points? Specific resort, specific weeks, difference in amount of points please.
I have also experienced the fact that the points values have not changed since I purchased. I was reacting to the possibility mentioned on this thread that they could change when I was told they would never.
think of it this way. Usually Friday and Saturday cost the most points. But if Christmas lands on Wednesday, like it did this year, they will make Tuesday and Wednesday cost more points but then in turn reduce the cost of Friday and Saturday. However, I’d you book the whole week, it will still cost the same amount of points as another week in the same season.
same things go for holidays. The shift in points are during the week and not for a whole season.
We like the model of weekend costing more as we get to save a few points staying for 12 or 10 nights as opposed to 2 full weeks. For this year, we have booked 12 nights in Jan in Palm Desert, 10 nights in April at Ko Olina and 10 nights at Newport Coast in Sept.
I am still interested to hear what the specific change is that the OP is referencing. What went up in points? Specific resort, specific weeks, difference in amount of points please.
From post #12 above:
"In my admittedly very small sample of the HHI resorts January 2021, that was what I saw. Early January is less points than 2020 while the end of January is more."
Sample: Harbour Point 2 BR
2020 Week 1 Sat check-in: 400 DC points
2021 Week 1 Sat check-in: 370 DC points
2020 Week 3 Sat check-in: 400 DC points
2021 Week 3 Sat check-in: 400 DC points
2020 Week 4 Sat check-in: 400 DC points
2021 Week 4 Sat check-in: 470 DC points
Similar experience across all of the HHI resorts where I can see availability.
From post #12 above:
"In my admittedly very small sample of the HHI resorts January 2021, that was what I saw. Early January is less points than 2020 while the end of January is more."
Sample: Harbour Point 2 BR
2020 Week 1 Sat check-in: 400 DC points
2021 Week 1 Sat check-in: 370 DC points
2020 Week 3 Sat check-in: 400 DC points
2021 Week 3 Sat check-in: 400 DC points
2020 Week 4 Sat check-in: 400 DC points
2021 Week 4 Sat check-in: 470 DC points
Similar experience across all of the HHI resorts where I can see availability.
So this illustrates my point exactly. Lets say I visited this HH resort on week 4 in 2015 and loved it. I was lured into a presentation where I was convinced to purchase destination points and told that I could visit the same resort at the same time of year (week)forever and the cost would never go up. Also, the points would give me some flexibility to visit other resorts also at the same price as the time I purchased. This is almost my scenario exactly, except not HH.
Now I am told that the same week I paid 400 points for is now 470 points. In my math that is a slightly more than 15% increase in the price of my stay. That is a devaluation of the points I purchased, and directly contradicts the whole purpose of buying the points. The $45,000 entry fee was sold as vacations would never cost more than the day I purchased. ( Not including MF) If MVC can raise the points needed at their will, what is the difference of just paying as you go at whatever rate prevails at the time of your visit, and saving the $45,000? Someone explain to me then the value of purchasing points, except to fall prey to fraud?
So this illustrates my point exactly. Lets say I visited this HH resort on week 4 in 2015 and loved it. I was lured into a presentation where I was convinced to purchase destination points and told that I could visit the same resort at the same time of year (week)forever and the cost would never go up. Also, the points would give me some flexibility to visit other resorts also at the same price as the time I purchased. This is almost my scenario exactly, except not HH.
Now I am told that the same week I paid 400 points for is now 470 points. In my math that is a slightly more than 15% increase in the price of my stay. That is a devaluation of the points I purchased, and directly contradicts the whole purpose of buying the points. The $45,000 entry fee was sold as vacations would never cost more than the day I purchased. ( Not including MF) If MVC can raise the points needed at their will, what is the difference of just paying as you go at whatever rate prevails at the time of your visit, and saving the $45,000? Someone explain to me then the value of purchasing points, except to fall prey to fraud?
You should never be told that you could visit the same resort at the same time of year (week) forever and the cost would never go up.
You should be told that the total number of Points for the year would never go up, but that there may be adjustments during the course of the year with some dates/periods requiring more Points and other dates/periods coming down to maintain the fixed total.
Whilst this might not suit everyone, it may well be preferable for others and it is certainly neither a devaluation nor a fraud.
I can state without equivocation, had I been told what you described I would never have laid out $45,000. Why would I give a hoot about how many points it takes for the year when all I am interested in is when I want to go and the cost of that. This can be twisted with a hundred different explanations. That's not what was sold....and yes, if the same week costs me 15% more, my points are devalued. And yes....that does make it fraud.
I have noticed an increase in the point requirements for 1BR and studio reservations. Previously, the total combined cost for reserving each individually was equal to reserving the full 2BR. Now, many resorts are charging a premium for the individual units. I believe the total annual points for the full villas cannot change, but premiums can now be charged for locked off components. I have also noticed some changes in the seasons in Phoenix and Hilton Head.
I don't think the requirement to balance for the year applies to the lockout's so resorts with no dedicated smaller units could have significant changes in those unit requirements.
If this is so...it is 180 degrees from what I was explicitly told. So....if I want to go skiing in Vail.....the price of the ski week can rise to anything they think they can get as long as they decrease the price of whats called mud season when no one wants to go to Vail?
For others reading the take home message is things change, verbal representations are not binding and one needs to understand the legal documents of what they are signing up for.
I suspect the reason for the higher points is that Jan 2 is in a higher bracket than Jan 3 and on and Sat 2021 is Jan 2.
So this illustrates my point exactly. Lets say I visited this HH resort on week 4 in 2015 and loved it. I was lured into a presentation where I was convinced to purchase destination points and told that I could visit the same resort at the same time of year (week)forever and the cost would never go up. Also, the points would give me some flexibility to visit other resorts also at the same price as the time I purchased. This is almost my scenario exactly, except not HH.
Now I am told that the same week I paid 400 points for is now 470 points. In my math that is a slightly more than 15% increase in the price of my stay. That is a devaluation of the points I purchased, and directly contradicts the whole purpose of buying the points. The $45,000 entry fee was sold as vacations would never cost more than the day I purchased. ( Not including MF) If MVC can raise the points needed at their will, what is the difference of just paying as you go at whatever rate prevails at the time of your visit, and saving the $45,000? Someone explain to me then the value of purchasing points, except to fall prey to fraud?
First of all, no one should have told you the word NEVER. There is no such thing as never. Secondly, these alterations of dates usually revolve around holiday weeks. For example, New Year’s, Christmas, President’s Day, Independence Day are prime high demand weeks that are usually more points at a resort than usual for certain days. The reason it will vary some years because the calendar changes. July 4th can fall on any day of the week so the number of points will vary in a particular year. Those alterations are pointed out each year on the points requirement chart. This is the exception for some holiday weeks and not the normal weeks. Marriott does not change the points requirements for units except as noted. The increase is not in the points required, the increase is in the annual maintenance fee charges. They go up.
This is common with points timeshares. I have this very same situation with my Diamond Resorts timeshare. I have had that one for over 20 years and the points requirements for the units have NEVER changed.
Also, this is covered in your contract and paperwork that you signed entering the DC program.
One last thing, your ownership is not fraud. You can actually stay in the Marriott resorts with these points.
I have experienced what the OP has described in a number of sales pitches at hotel branded timeshares. They ask about where you would like to vacation and then run some horrendous calculation as to what that would cost using hotels over the next 20 years. They argue that using timeshares is cheaper because they talk about today's costs as if they remain static.
I have also heard Tuggers reference vacation 401ks by reps.
To me...making representations that you know aren't true in order to secure a sale is fraud. I am not a lawyer, just a person who learned a lesson with regard to doing business with MVC.
I have experienced what the OP has described in a number of sales pitches at hotel branded timeshares. They ask about where you would like to vacation and then run some horrendous calculation as to what that would cost using hitels over the next 20 years. They argue that using timeshares is cheaper because they talk about today's costs as if they remain static.
I have also heard Tuggers reference vacation 401ks by reps.
Exactly....according to their pitch that's the whole reason for the sale. No one ever explained this notion that the points per year will stay the same by decreasing the cost for weeks that are undesirable and increasing the cost for weeks weeks that are.
I have experienced what the OP has described in a number of sales pitches at hotel branded timeshares. They ask about where you would like to vacation and then run some horrendous calculation as to what that would cost using hitels over the next 20 years. They argue that using timeshares is cheaper because they talk about today's costs as if they remain static.
I have also heard Tuggers reference vacation 401ks by reps.
My point in this area is it doesn't matter what they tell you. What matters is what's in the paperwork. Even when what they say is completely accurate sometimes people hear or interpret things differently. Specific to this area I think it's unlikely anyone would say the points can't be reallocated if specifically asked though I could see sales not understanding this themselves. The situation of specifically lying about it can happen but is less likely for MVC.
I have experienced what the OP has described in a number of sales pitches at hotel branded timeshares. They ask about where you would like to vacation and then run some horrendous calculation as to what that would cost using hitels over the next 20 years. They argue that using timeshares is cheaper because they talk about today's costs as if they remain static.
I have also heard Tuggers reference vacation 401ks by reps.
I have noticed an increase in the point requirements for 1BR and studio reservations. Previously, the total combined cost for reserving each individually was equal to reserving the full 2BR. Now, many resorts are charging a premium for the individual units. I believe the total annual points for the full villas cannot change, but premiums can now be charged for locked off components. I have also noticed some changes in the seasons in Phoenix and Hilton Head.
I don't think the individual portions of lock off units ever equaled what the full unit cost. There has always been a premium to book the individual units compared to the full unit. This was well discussed back in 2010 when Marriott released the DC program. however, I do agree that they have increased the point requirements for the individual units. It was documented that they did this at Ko'Olina a number of years ago. They didn't increase the cost of the 2BR units, but they did increase the point requirements of the individual studio and 1BR portions.
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