Changes in 2021 Destination Points per Night

[jmhpsu93]

Just kicking the tires on some early 2021 DP reservations and it looks like MVC has changed some point pricing. Just looked at Hilton Head area for now, but point costs per week change weekly vs. current structure where it's January, then Feb/March, then April/May, then summer, etc. tier pricing. Spot-checked a couple of Orlando resorts and didn't see the change. I'm accounting for my "over 12 month" premium.

 

[Fasttr]

Hopefully our TUG pal @StevenTing can work his magic and compile a full PDF of all the point charts for 2021 as he has done in the past. Having that will make comparisons across the resorts much easier.

 

[JIMinNC]

The web site doesn't even have the 2021 charts posted yet under their "Helpful Tools" section - just 2019 (now useless) and 2020.

 

[CPNY]

The web site doesn't even have the 2021 charts posted yet under their "Helpful Tools" section - just 2019 (now useless) and 2020.

Interesting. Do they often fluctuate? Vistana point chart is fixed. Within 3 seasons. I understand DC points varies much more based on time of year? Hope the star options chart doesn’t change

 

[jmhpsu93]

The web site doesn't even have the 2021 charts posted yet under their "Helpful Tools" section - just 2019 (now useless) and 2020.

I noted that as well.

I was checking through the reservation section, which is a pain in the neck to compare resorts for a specific date range.

 

[StevenTing]

As soon as I see 2021 charts available, I'll get a combined PDF created. I'll see if Owner Services has any info as well.

 

[mbstn6254]

Just kicking the tires on some early 2021 DP reservations and it looks like MVC has changed some point pricing. Just looked at Hilton Head area for now, but point costs per week change weekly vs. current structure where it's January, then Feb/March, then April/May, then summer, etc. tier pricing. Spot-checked a couple of Orlando resorts and didn't see the change. I'm accounting for my "over 12 month" premium.

I thought the purchase of points locked in my cost per night in points, not MF, as of the date I purchased them. So....for example if the cost per night in points at a resort was 400 at the time of purchase it would always be 400 per night. Other wise...whats the point in pwning points?

Am I wrong?

 

[Pamplemousse]

Yes you are wrong.
Marriott can change the number of points per night if they choose. The points charts are universal. There are not separate points charts depending on when you buy.

The point in buying points is Marriott no longer sells weeks only so unless you want to buy a resale and exchange on II or rent it or such your new purchase is points.
The point in owning points is flexibility in booking and stay length and access to newer/ other resorts that don’t have weeks owners to deposit into II and lower fees associated with exchanging among other things.

 

[bazzap]

Yes you are wrong.
Marriott can change the number of points per night if they choose. The points charts are universal.

The total number of Points required for the full year for each resort should be unchanged, and I believe it has been since the Points programme was launched.
MVC have increased the number of Points required during the year, for example weekends, national holidays, other peak periods...but these increases have been balanced by decreases at other times of the year.

 

[mbstn6254]

The whole pitch to buying time shares or points was to lock in your vacation costs. As the price of hotels rooms rise at the same reosrt mine won't. I paid $40,000 for the points and $2,500 a year for that. Whats the point then of owning If MF go up and the cost of renting a room goes up...what have I purchased? In fact I asked that exact same question to the sales rep. If points per night increase, my costs are locked in as of the year I purchased. The answer was ...that's the reason you purchase them.

 

[JIMinNC]

The whole pitch to buying time shares or points was to lock in your vacation costs. As the price of hotels rooms rise at the same reosrt mine won't. I paid $40,000 for the points and $2,500 a year for that. Whats the point then of owning If MF go up and the cost of renting a room goes up...what have I purchased? In fact I asked that exact same question to the sales rep. If points per night increase, my costs are locked in as of the year I purchased. The answer was ...that's the reason you purchase them.

Just for clarification - your up front purchase cost IS fixed, of course, as it is a one time cost. The points required for a given resort over a year is also fixed, but Marriott can, and does, make adjustments within the year. So, some weeks/days may go up in points, but those increases will be offset by decreases elsewhere on the annual points schedule. So, while any given night might be subject to increase, the annual points at a resort are indeed fixed.

The only thing that is not fixed is the annual maintenance fee, and it is totally unrealistic to expect that to always be what it was when you bought. The points maintenance fee is your share of the cost of operating the resorts in the MVC system. Over time, costs will go up, and so will your fees. How else could it work? If maintenance fees were fixed, how would increasing costs be recouped?

 

[jmhpsu93]

Just for clarification - your up front purchase cost IS fixed, of course, as it is a one time cost. The points required for a given resort over a year is also fixed, but Marriott can, and does, make adjustments within the year. So, some weeks/days may go up in points, but those increases will be offset by decreases elsewhere on the annual points schedule. So, while any given night might be subject to increase, the annual points at a resort are indeed fixed.

The only thing that is not fixed is the annual maintenance fee, and it is totally unrealistic to expect that to always be what it was when you bought. The points maintenance fee is your share of the cost of operating the resorts in the MVC system. Over time, costs will go up, and so will your fees. How else could it work? If maintenance fees were fixed, how would increasing costs be recouped?

In my admittedly very small sample of the HHI resorts January 2021, that was what I saw. Early January is less points than 2020 while the end of January is more. I wonder if they're being a little more micro in analyzing demand to the week vs. season as before.

In any case, it would have been nice to know ahead of time. Oh, and maybe publish some points charts!

 

[mbstn6254]

I am having an issue following this with regard to what I was told.

For example: When I purchased my points if a resort in Hawaii posted rates of 500 points per night for weekdays and 1,200 points per night on the weekends during a week in August, are you telling me they can now change that to 600 points a night during the week and 1,500 points per night for the same week, but decrease the points for an off period?

 

[Superchief]

I have noticed an increase in the point requirements for 1BR and studio reservations. Previously, the total combined cost for reserving each individually was equal to reserving the full 2BR. Now, many resorts are charging a premium for the individual units. I believe the total annual points for the full villas cannot change, but premiums can now be charged for locked off components. I have also noticed some changes in the seasons in Phoenix and Hilton Head.

 

[Fasttr]

To help clarify ability to change.... from the Trust Docs....

Subject to the limited calendar adjustments described in this paragraph, any increase or
decrease in the number of Points for Use required to reserve a designated Use Period pursuant to
Association Delegee’s right to amend the Point Schedule as set forth above must be offset by a
corresponding decrease or increase to the Points for Use for other Use Period(s) occurring during the
same year as the designated Use Period. Points for Use for a given calendar year will fluctuate from year
to year as a result of the number of weekends that occur during that year, leap years, the occurrence of
“Week 53” as defined in the Component Declarations, and which day of the week a holiday occurs. As a
result of these fluctuating factors and differing demand which occurs because of the calendar
permutations, the number of Points for Use may fluctuate for a given Use Period; provided, however,
that the Points for Use for a Use Period in a specific calendar year that has the same factors as another
specific calendar year, may only be increased or decreased pursuant to the preceding paragraph. Any
modification to the Point Schedule shall not require approval by the Beneficiaries.

 

[Pamplemousse]

As I look at it the increase in maintenance fees is akin to the rising room rental rate. Yes, time marches on- purchase doesn’t really fight inflation. But it is less expensive than retail for sure.
I think I sort of misinterpreted your first post in that I was thinking you were saying we all had personal points charts based on our points purchase price. Sorry I said you were wrong M.

 

[JIMinNC]

I am having an issue following this with regard to what I was told.

For example: When I purchased my points if a resort in Hawaii posted rates of 500 points per night for weekdays and 1,200 points per night on the weekends during a week in August, are you telling me they can now change that to 600 points a night during the week and 1,500 points per night for the same week, but decrease the points for an off period?

Yes. It is spelled out specifically in the Program Docs. See the text posted by @Fasttr above.

 

[davidvel]

I am having an issue following this with regard to what I was told.

For example: When I purchased my points if a resort in Hawaii posted rates of 500 points per night for weekdays and 1,200 points per night on the weekends during a week in August, are you telling me they can now change that to 600 points a night during the week and 1,500 points per night for the same week, but decrease the points for an off period?

Yes.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMO...Such devaluations are yet another reason not to buy pure points trusts from any TS provider. IMO deeded with enrollment better because you will always have your deeded week. Renting points or a week looking increasingly attractive. Too many opportunities for devaluation otherwise.

 

[JIMinNC]

IMO...Such devaluations are yet another reason not to buy pure points trusts from any TS provider. IMO deeded with enrollment better because you will always have your deeded week.

Unless the buyer is willing to accept the occasional change or devaluation in exchange for the greater options and flexibility offered by a points product when compared to a deeded week. There's no question that buying an enrolled deeded week is superior, since you will always have the deeded usage as a fall-back, but in systems like MVC where you can't buy an enrolled deeded week, if you want access to their resorts with the flexibility of points, buying the Trust product may be your only option.

 

[Steve Fatula]

IMO...Such devaluations are yet another reason not to buy pure points trusts from any TS provider. IMO deeded with enrollment better because you will always have your deeded week. Renting points or a week looking increasingly attractive. Too many opportunities for devaluation otherwise.

But as always, depends on your usage! I don't want 7 day vacations. For example, Sat and Sun, I'll be in Branson via points. In Feb, I'll be at DSV for 12 nights not 14, etc. i have seen no devaluations since I originally got into the system. Ymmv.

For me, Branson works great for my road trips, it's around where I would stay in a hotel on a longer trip anywhere NE. It cost me 155 points for 2 weekend nights. At 60 cents per mf, that's just over $90 or $45 per night. Hotel in Indianapolis was close to $200/nt. Hotel in Effingham IL was $100/nt.

Had it been weekday nights, cost is 100 points for 2 night in 1br, or, about $30/night.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Unless the buyer is willing to accept the occasional change or devaluation in exchange for the greater options and flexibility offered by a points product when compared to a deeded week. There's no question that buying an enrolled deeded week is superior, since you will always have the deeded usage as a fall-back, but in systems like MVC where you can't buy an enrolled deeded week, if you want access to their resorts with the flexibility of points, buying the Trust product may be your only option.

That's why I am glad we own mandatory Vistana. With Staroptions we get the best of both worlds.

 

[mbstn6254]

If this is so...it is 180 degrees from what I was explicitly told. So....if I want to go skiing in Vail.....the price of the ski week can rise to anything they think they can get as long as they decrease the price of whats called mud season when no one wants to go to Vail?

 

[JIMinNC]

If this is so...it is 180 degrees from what I was explicitly told. So....if I want to go skiing in Vail.....the price of the ski week can rise to anything they think they can get as long as they decrease the price of whats called mud season when no one wants to go to Vail?

But it has always been spelled out in the Program Docs exactly as @Fasttr posted. That has been the case since the inception of the points system almost 10 years ago. The fact that they must decrease points elsewhere on the chart does place some practical bounds on how much any given night can change, but change it they certainly can. I believe most of the changes we've seen over the years have been fairly modest, and have not been changes that drastically alter the overall chart.

 

[Steve Fatula]

But it has always been spelled out in the Program Docs exactly as @Fasttr posted. That has been the case since the inception of the points system almost 10 years ago. The fact that they must decrease points elsewhere on the chart does place some practical bounds on how much any given night can change, but change it they certainly can. I believe most of the changes we've seen over the years have been fairly modest, and have not been changes that drastically alter the overall chart.

Indeed! People love to post the word devaluation but IMHO, completely blown out of proportion. Instead of throwing the word out, please provide specific examples. There will always be some fine tuning. And there was at least one mistake made early on.