Change in SVN ELITE benefits

[Fredm]

HUH?

FredM, I don't have a pony in this race as I'm a resale owner. But I do think that retail owners have a legitimate gripe against Starwood management for the many reasons listed in this thread. I don't think it's petulant or unreasonable to expect that the benefits touted by SVO salesmen would have an equivalent value less than a year later, especially when folks paid tens of thousands of dollars for these benefits.

It's easy for me laugh because I've never sat in front of a timeshare salesman and don't ever intend to. Hear no lies.

Lisa, which is it? If you have not purchased directly and have no pony in this race, you cannot be speaking about lies you have been told. Nor am I speaking about other matters. I am speaking specifically about a points program. An optional/alternative use that no one is forced to take. The rest has already been pounded into dust.

These are comments by previously happy customers that are now, due to the changes, unsatisfied. Unsatisifed customers are not good for any vendor or manager.

To make a comparison to spoiled children is wrong. These are adults who paid for and continue paying for a superior program (including the extras).

Duke, with all due respect, that is exactly what it sounds like. Again, I am speaking about the StarPoints specifically. Nothing else.

We know what is in the deed and we know what was told to us and we know the difference. However, that does not make a satisfied customer.

As mentioned, I did not expect to change the minds of those who continue with this line of thought.

Look, I am a reseller. The product I represent on behalf of owners to buyers does not include StarPoints, and in some cases, StarOptions. I also have a business interest in the continuation of the requal program. I am not defending Starwood here. They would prefer it if I would just disappear. The conclusion to be drawn from all of this is that it pays to buy a resale. The "premiums" are not worth the difference in price. My vested interest lies in that very proposition. But, if I am not buying the rant, you can bet the ranch Starwood is not. So, what is the point, besides huffing and puffing because you don't like it?

 

[LisaRex]

Lisa, which is it? If you have not purchased directly and have no pony in this race, you cannot be speaking about lies you have been told.

I never said that I was personally told lies. Nonetheless, I do have sympathy with people who forked over thousands of dollars to developers for benefits that were weaned out. That, IMO, is audaciously unfair and I'll lend my voice to the outcry.

I also wouldn't be so quick to write off Starwood as being deaf to owner complaints. I work for an international Fortune 25 consumer products company and our customer base is in the billions. Yet the potential impact of just a few dozen angry letters can be staggering. I know lower level managers who have never personally met their category President. But Mrs. Jones from Little Rock can gain a personal audience with him with one phone call to a consumer complaint line. The Mrs. Joneses of the world cause Mr. President to lose sleep at night because Mr. President has determined, though much number crunching, that Mrs. Jones is his target audience and she represents ten thousand consumers. And, if you have the sense of a cumquat, you keep your loyal consumers happy.

According to Lodging Magazine, "Fifty percent of (Marriott Vacation Club's) business comes from owners buying additional weeks or referring their friends...” (http://www.lodgingmagazine.com/index.cfm?fm=Article.Detail&aid=46) From a marketing POV, that statistic is staggering. Unless SVO is run by trained monkeys, I can assure you that the owners who have voiced their displeasure over these "modifications" are most definitely being heard by management. The fact that a V.P. is personally talking to people on the nights and weekends should give you an indication how seriously these complaints are being taken.

Speaking of marketing, I'm pretty sure I've personally spoken to you when you contacted me via another timeshare resale website. (Your user name is kind of a giveaway.) It puzzles me what would motivate you, a resale agent, to come into a website of timeshare owners and call the people who could very well be your next customers bratty and whiny.

Know your target audience and keep them happy. A lesson for us all.

 

[baz48]

Great post Fred.


[*]When the Elite Program was first announced, they forgot to exclude those owners who had purchased all necessary units to qualify via the resale market. Eventually, the legal people got around to excluding them in the promotional material and official rules, and an effort was made to remove the elite status from these buyers. I personally know two who used the initial documentation to successfully retain their status -- I'm sure there are lots more.
QUOTE]


Does anyone know exactly when the resale issue was added to the promotional material and rules? I believe it's the language about rights not transferring to a third party.

Thanks.

 

[califgal]

This debate will go on and on.......we are "no star" and we WERE considering taking the path to 4-5*. It was lousy of Starwood to take away the upgrade benefit, however even as a "no star" I understood that it should never be expected,no matter what a saleperson told us. If the rooms are available and Starwood themselves haven't sold them, to sit empty is a crime. But Starwood giveth and as we have seen, taketh away.

When my husband and I were discussing 5* and lifetime plat, he had mentioned ...what if they at some point take that away?! I had answered that they could never do that! Well now we see they can ....!

And the subject of requals....whether people here like it or not Starwood wants to sell timeshares and the requal process is another way to get a sale.

We still will most likely buy another week resale, and really buy the view we want.

 

[TheUnitrep]

... It puzzles me what would motivate you, a resale agent, to come into a website of timeshare owners and call the people who could very well be your next customers bratty and whiny..

It's nice to have a "resale agent" give his professional opinion, regardless of how much it pains us to hear.

My earlier post of not putting credence into anything a TIMESHARE salesman says is a result of the numerous developer presentations my wife and I have sat through over the years.

We've come to realize that developers pay their salesmen to sell intervals not educate potential owners about the idiosyncrasies of ownership. These salesmen emphasize the positive. They tout what’s possible but never tell you it’s highly unlikely. Starwood is no different in this respect. We’ve learned this the hard way.

Nearly four years ago, we purchased our first Starwood timeshare (Sheraton Mountain Vista). The salesman said nothing about "Mandatory" v. "Voluntary" resorts and how this distinction impacts the overall value of purchasing at SMV. While the salesman did not "lie," I think the omission was a calculated one. However, I do not hold Starwood responsible for the salesman not telling me. I didn't know any better, so I consider it my fault for not doing my due diligence.

Because of this, I spent a great deal of time learning about the SVO system and now consider myself pretty knowledgeable about it. Whenever we attend the owner update presentations during our vacations at Starwood resorts, I find it amusing to ask the salesman pointed questions about ownership. On several occasions, I have even caught salesmen telling flat out lies about what I can and can't do in response to my questions.

Once this occurs, I typically take the salesmen by surprise when I inquire about mandatory/voluntary, the value of StarPoint conversion and ability to trade into resorts at the 8-month mark. At this point, I've had salesmen realize that I am not a "newbie" and they scale down the rhetoric.

While all may not agree with some of the posts in this thread, we should appreciate Fred’s willingness to share his honest perspective. I would rather deal with a resale agent like Fred, who tells me the “cold, hard truth,” than a salesman who tells me only things I want to hear.

Jerry

 

[Time2Ponder]

While all may not agree with some of the posts in this thread, we should appreciate Fred’s willingness to share his honest perspective. I would rather deal with a resale agent like Fred, who tells me the “cold, hard truth,” than a salesman who tells me only things I want to hear.

Jerry

I agree 100%. While everyone can be a critic, not everyone can be a critical advisor. Fred is the latter, IMO. (Just for reference, I have never had any personal or business dealings with Fred and only know him from his posts on this thread. However, I would gladly do business with him in the future, if I had the chance.)

 

[califgal]

I agree, I appreciate Fred's input.
If I was elite I would appreciate having more time to convert into starpoints. Like Fred said, if you ever had to cancel at least the starpoints give you something although not equal. I would rather get starpoints then have to deposit into Interval.

 

[nodge]

Cry Baby!?!

Hmmm. A baby is helpless, yet is able to get his or her needs met simply by crying . . . .. What’s wrong with that?

SVO MANAGEMENT INC. holds all the cards here and has elected to make a bonehead decision that renders its current elite program essentially worthless. Moreover, in order to induce sales, IT (not just its salesmen) highly touted this benefit. EVERY ROOM OF EVERY SVO property included one of those restaurant table fold-cards promoting the program. Giant floor to ceiling posters in all of its lobbies touted this benefit. Its web site promoted these benefits and, and yes even its paperwork spelled out the benefits of the program in the form of a signed contract. (For all you legal guys out there, think "Fraud in the Inducement" not "breach of contract" theories)

SVO MANAGEMENT INC. also relied heavily on the whole Starwood tie-in. At every opportunity is says to potential customers, “Hey you can trust us. We’re STARWOOD, one of the largest publicly traded hotel chains in the world. We’re NOT one of those ‘70’s-style timeshare companies. Sure you’ll pay more with us, but we’re STARWOOD!!”

SVO MANAGEMENT INC’s latest antics reveal that they are nothing more than one of those ‘70’s-style timeshare companies. All of you people scolding us for trusting Starwood seem to think we could have seen the sky-blue polyester leisure suits with white shoes they were all wearing under their STARWOOD clothes. Maybe so, but what do we do now?

At a minimum, I think we owe it to potential new SVO MANAGEMENT INC victims to point out all of the polyester, “polo” cologne, pinkie rings and gold neck chains hiding under SVO MANAGEMENT INC’s “blue chip” veneer.

-nodge

 

[Fredm]

I never said that I was personally told lies. Nonetheless, I do have sympathy with people who forked over thousands of dollars to developers for benefits that were weaned out. That, IMO, is audaciously unfair and I'll lend my voice to the outcry.

I also wouldn't be so quick to write off Starwood as being deaf to owner complaints. I work for an international Fortune 25 consumer products company and our customer base is in the billions. Yet the potential impact of just a few dozen angry letters can be staggering. I know lower level managers who have never personally met their category President. But Mrs. Jones from Little Rock can gain a personal audience with him with one phone call to a consumer complaint line. The Mrs. Joneses of the world cause Mr. President to lose sleep at night because Mr. President has determined, though much number crunching, that Mrs. Jones is his target audience and she represents ten thousand consumers. And, if you have the sense of a cumquat, you keep your loyal consumers happy.

According to Lodging Magazine, "Fifty percent of (Marriott Vacation Club's) business comes from owners buying additional weeks or referring their friends...” (http://www.lodgingmagazine.com/index.cfm?fm=Article.Detail&aid=46) From a marketing POV, that statistic is staggering. Unless SVO is run by trained monkeys, I can assure you that the owners who have voiced their displeasure over these "modifications" are most definitely being heard by management. The fact that a V.P. is personally talking to people on the nights and weekends should give you an indication how seriously these complaints are being taken.

Speaking of marketing, I'm pretty sure I've personally spoken to you when you contacted me via another timeshare resale website. (Your user name is kind of a giveaway.) It puzzles me what would motivate you, a resale agent, to come into a website of timeshare owners and call the people who could very well be your next customers bratty and whiny.

Know your target audience and keep them happy. A lesson for us all.

Lisa.

Regarding my user name being a giveaway, I do not use psudo names because I am in this business. Have been for a very long time. I don't mind having my name associated with my posts.

I did not come into a website of timeshare owners and call the people who could very well be my next customers bratty and whinny. Only those whos shoes fit. And, very specifically on a narrow issue of fact that is not disputable . Those who choose to, make my case. Call it whatever you wish.

Regarding your being puzzled about my remarks, I will explain them to you. My first post in this thread stated that it would be far easier for me to butt-out of the discussion, precisely because I am a reseller. The reason I joined in is because I felt I had a perspective to offer. In offering it, my comments were focused on the Elite benefit changes, which is the subject of this thread.
I followed with a post on a positive aspect of the benefit change. Again, very focused on that item only. Both posts clearly giving credence to other owner issues.
Nonetheless, for no other reason than my second post referenced StarPoints, some here including yourself took it as an opportunity to complain about the issue. My problem with the complaint has already been stated. In so doing, I made characterizations I stand behind. This is what puzzles you. Why would I voice them to those with whom I may someday have the opportunity to do business with? .
Well, I will tell you. There are legitimate gripes among the Starwood owner base. There are also frivolous ones. Lumping them under a single "dissatisfied customer" hat, is not only counterproductive, it is confusing to some and misleading to many. I fully agree with you that Starwood management would be interested in customer satisfaction issues. Being interested in them, and changing them for the betterment of the owner is another matter entirely. Anyone can make noise. Angry mobs make noise. That does not make them effective. Starwood is not some clueless, bungling timeshare developer. They did not make their changes off the cuff. They knew exactly what they were doing. All based in their business metrics. To be effective, one must be rational about what is being said. If reasonable, and in line with their business objectives, progress is possible. The surest way to run into a brick wall, is not have a credible argument. They will listen; it's called Public Relations. My characterizations were an attempt at pointing out the irrational. It was not a blanket comment. Indeed, three times in the same post I specifically made note that my comments related to the StarPoints issue only. I repeat, those who find reason to argue with a statement of fact concerning points programs only make my case.
There are those who really do wish to be told what they want to hear. despite their pronouncements that they want to be told what they need to know. My personal best interests were put aside in saying what I believe was need to know stuff. What makes me qualified to say so? Ah, that is not a question you chose to ask. You were too busy being sure of your point of view. I did not make the comment simply to earn the antagonism of future customers. It is hard enough to accumulate sound information, without confusing the matter with groundless gripes. That serves no one, and makes the market for what you own less than it should be. Some do not know where their interests lie, even if it bites them in the rear end. Please consider that you may have something to learn.
In this regard, UnitRep and Time2Ponder, thank you very much for your kind and understanding supportive comments.

 

[Time2Ponder]

Hmmm. A baby is helpless, yet is able to get his or her needs met simply by crying . . . .. What’s wrong with that?

Unless I'm mistaken, you and other elite members are not helpless infants. [And I'll bet that if I had referred to you in such a manner, you'd have taken offense.] You are independent adults who are capable of reading the fine print (if you so desire), weighing said print and assimilating the information available therein, and then making a sound decision based on your knowledge. That you find yourself in such a position is unfortunate, but, quite honestly, it was avoidable.

Most companies are in business to make money. Starwood is no exception. You claim a breach of trust has occurred (at least that's what I'm assuming, based on your infant analogy), but would you, as an intelligent, knowledgeable adult, trust any of the following people without reading their "fine print": Telemarketers, car salespersons, politicians (I list these occupations because in recent years, polls have indicated that people find them to be among the least trustworthy)? Would you even accept the major findings of the following people without reading their "fine print" or getting a "second opinion": Doctors, clergy, police, teachers (These occupations are considered to be among the most trustworthy)? I sure as heck wouldn't.

SVO MANAGEMENT INC. holds all the cards here and has elected to make a bonehead decision that renders its current elite program essentially worthless. Moreover, in order to induce sales, IT (not just its salesmen) highly touted this benefit. EVERY ROOM OF EVERY SVO property included one of those restaurant table fold-cards promoting the program. Giant floor to ceiling posters in all of its lobbies touted this benefit. Its web site promoted these benefits and, and yes even its paperwork spelled out the benefits of the program in the form of a signed contract. (For all you legal guys out there, think "Fraud in the Inducement" not "breach of contract" theories)

SVO MANAGEMENT INC. also relied heavily on the whole Starwood tie-in. At every opportunity is says to potential customers, “Hey you can trust us. We’re STARWOOD, one of the largest publicly traded hotel chains in the world. We’re NOT one of those ‘70’s-style timeshare companies. Sure you’ll pay more with us, but we’re STARWOOD!!”

SVO MANAGEMENT INC’s latest antics reveal that they are nothing more than one of those ‘70’s-style timeshare companies. All of you people scolding us for trusting Starwood seem to think we could have seen the sky-blue polyester leisure suits with white shoes they were all wearing under their STARWOOD clothes. Maybe so, but what do we do now?

At a minimum, I think we owe it to potential new SVO MANAGEMENT INC victims to point out all of the polyester, “polo” cologne, pinkie rings and gold neck chains hiding under SVO MANAGEMENT INC’s “blue chip” veneer.

-nodge

I don't know what salespeople you met. However, when we did the tour for Starwood (a three-hour WKORV-N tour), the salesperson and closer were obviously (despite their "blue-chip veneer") the polyester lesiure suit-wearing types. Eventually, they wore us down and we signed. The next day, we were annoyed enough about the fact that we'd been held hostage for three hours that we rescinded while there. But we still LOVED the blue-chip product. So we went the resale route, knowing that following such route meant we would lose some of Starwood's benefits.

Ultimately, Starwood does not hold all the cards. If you're that unhappy with your purchase and their product (which guarantees only a lifetime's worth of great vacations [sans upgrades, of course]), you can always sell. Ultimately, the power to do or to not do a certain thing is in your hands.

As far as I'm concerned, Westin still offers a superior, blue-chip product. I knew what I was getting (as well as what I wasn't getting) and I purchased exactly what I wanted.

It's not Starwood's fault that you didn't do the same.

 

[tomandrobin]

Even with these recent changes, I still love our Starwood ownership. I didn't care if I got a free upgrade on check-in....ever. If I ever do, great! But if I book a one bedroom, that is what I expect.

I am one of the few that like the Staroption/point conversion. I have posted before on this option, and how we see it as a great asset to our membership. I don't agree with the way Starwood is devaluing the option system. I think its more of a reflection of non-resort owners that are driving the change, but unfortunately we feel the pain the most. The conversion rate and point value for our units will remain constant, but for non-members over time will have more means to "earn" more points.

Fred I like they way you are putting the information out there.....straight and to the point!

This change will not deter us from purchasing additional Starwood properties. The goal of becoming 5* is probably dead. We bought Starwood cuase we like the properies in thier system and being able to internally trade within the Starwood system. Now, if Starwod did away with thier Staroption program, we'll be running over to Marriott.

 

[myip]

I understand the no size upgrade. How about view upgrade? Does Elite has a priority over the view of the unit for resort that you don't own? How about for resort that you own ie: Maui?

 

[DavidnRobin]

I had dropped out of this thread when the insults started flying (sadly - not even recognized as such by the poster - and still persisted for a 100+ posts)

A few comments (from my viewpoint only):

We are one of those scoundrels that bought resale, and then requaled. I cannot believe that any type of promise was made by SVO/SVN to Owners that the exclusiveness of the Elite program was to them only, and requals would never be considered - for one simple reason - even now few Owners and SVO know little about requals - and therefore even less so back then. This goes for M and V resorts also - it is very complicated on its own - who would have ever thought to ask?

I believe that requals are a drop in the bucket (how many people even know about them or have used them? - I would guess <500 given my direct experience and reading TUG) - and we are not the reasons for the 'pure' Elite members issues regarding the breakdown of the system. SVO's objective is to sale VOIs and make profit for their shareholders. Your issues should be with Starwood and elimination of benefits. We played the game as best we could - if others would have done the same DD as us - they would have taken the same approach as we did and saved $10000s. I have no sympathy whatever.

While I appreciate Fred's viewpoints - I do not agree with them all, but he has ever right to write them (of course), and I appreciate the effort. Although a few more paragraph breaks would help in reading them.

We did not buy WPORV and then requal WKORV for the Elite program - it was just an added benefit. We did it because (as I said before) I believe that WPORV will be a unique TS to own - even with it being a Voluntary resort - and we got over 250K SPs in doing so - along with a great resort at 50% and 3*Elite (which we don't really need).

As I wrote - with the elimination of Villa Upgrade, and future benefit eliminations - it is unlikely we would buy more VOIs from SVO to move up the Elite ladder - we would not need Plat-for-Life for may years from now - besides there seems to be 1000s of these on Flyer-Talk.

We bought into SVO/SN becuase we loved the properties and the system. As I wrote earlier - we have little need for the Villa Upgrade or the SO-SP conversion. We bought where we wanted to go and the view type we wanted. We paid a hefty premium for OF at WKORV (resale) with our eyes wide open. We also bought WPORV (from SVO) with our eyes wide open and with tremendous DD. My discusssions with SVO/Suzanne were more about making promises and then breaking them - even know they have every right to do so. Just bad business - and I saw old-school TS mentality at work.

I keep reading about the elimination of SOs and SPs (and changing M resorts to V resorts) - where does this come from? These are part of the contract since they are part of the CCC&Rs agreed to when signing the contract - and tied into the SVO program as a whole. Yes, they can devalue them - but I don't believe they could eliminate them. Also, they cannot change a M resort to a V resort - this is also part of the contract signed for these resorts - unless they eliminated SVN They could eliminate SVN as the method for exchanging since they do have an Exchange Club for each TS region set-up in the CCC&Rs that was intended for that purpose, but they would be crazy to try and eliminate SVN, or eliminate SPs. It is basic to their 4-part program (Home Owner, SVN Exchange, SO-SP conversion, and II).

Anyway - best of luck - enjoy those vacation that you bought and SVO was selling. We still love the system and the resorts - and are even happier that we bought resale-mandatory, and extracted as much as we could by playing the game. (ty TUG)

We are off to Love City (STJ-WSJ) in a few days - woohoo! What a great resale buy that was - and as a fixed week/unit - would never need to requal it - just use it every year and enjoy ourselves (or rent, or direct exchange). And certainly never use the SVN system or the SO-SP conversion - 67.1K SOs and 22K SPs for a 2Bd/3Ba TH at WSJ - why even bother?

 

[tomandrobin]

We are off to Love City (STJ-WSJ) in a few days - woohoo!

You guys have a great trip! We were just talking about St John this morning. Remembering what a great time we had on our last visit. We are heading to Harborside next week!

 

[nodge]

My beef is with SVO MANAGEMENT INC., not with anything a salesmen said or did.

Let’s review. SVO MANGEMENT INC. elected to cancel at will and without any advance notice very recent written promises (in at least one case reported here promises made only a day or two earlier) made to induce sales. Independent of its legal ability to do this (which I think is debatable), its actions also have a certain negative public relations price for SVO MANAGEMENT INC.

This web site is one of the places where it pays that price, and we are the ones responsible for making sure they pay it. Otherwise, if we (the elite owners who are directly affected by this decision) let SVO MANAGEMENT INC. just slide by on this, we send a message to it that the political consequences for similar boneheaded decisions in the future will also be minimal.

For ALL SVN members, this means the very foundation of the SVO program--the Holy Grail StarOption program—could face a similar fate. Earlier this year, SVO MANAGEMENT INC. had no problem arbitrarily and without notice upping the StarOptions needed to stay in Cancun. It gave the higher StarOption amount to the folks who had already bought there, but it didn’t have any legal obligation to do so. Those folks got lucky. Who’s to say it won’t one day just up and reduce the StarOptions associated with a particular resort?

One of the basic tenets of real estate is stability. Although a timeshare is a quasi real-estate purchase, SVO MANAGEMENT INC. should recognize that real or perceived every time it arbitrarily changes the terms of its program, and especially making those changes without notice to us owners, it is compromising that stability. The fact that it cancelled benefits within months or even days of giving them to us certainly doesn’t help maintain a perception of a stable program.

Maybe elite upgrades aren’t a big enough rallying point to get us owners to work together to protect our interests from SVO MANAGEMENT INC. The fact remains that SVO MANAGEMENT INC. screwed some of us, and if we owners don’t at least voice our displeasure, SVO MANAGEMENT INC. won’t even think twice before screwing all of us much more later.

-nodge

 

[Time2Ponder]

For ALL SVN members, this means the very foundation of the SVO program--the Holy Grail StarOption program—could face a similar fate.

Yes, we know/knew that was always a possibility, no matter how distant. That's why we bought what we wanted (OF deluxe) where we wanted it (WKORV). We own real property, not membership in a network.

One of the basic tenets of real estate is stability.

-nodge

Our deeds are eminently stable. It is the loyalty and network programs that are not.

 

[grgs]

This change will not deter us from purchasing additional Starwood properties. The goal of becoming 5* is probably dead. We bought Starwood cuase we like the properies in thier system and being able to internally trade within the Starwood system. Now, if Starwod did away with thier Staroption program, we'll be running over to Marriott.

My point of view exactly! Truly, if they ever did away with internal trading (StarOptions), their one advantage over Marriott would be gone. I assume Starwood/Hilton/Hyatt are what's driving Marriott's talk of developing an internal trading system.

Glorian

 

[DavidnRobin]

You guys have a great trip! We were just talking about St John this morning. Remembering what a great time we had on our last visit. We are heading to Harborside next week!

Thanks - we plan to - enjoy Harborside.

I had forgot to add to my post: while SVO claims to have polled Elites about the Villa Upgrade and came to the conclusion based on the poll that it caused more displeasure than benefit (hard to believe)- no where has anybody chimed-in on TUG that they were polled. So - which Elites were actually polled? You would think at least on Tugger would have mentioned that they had been polled - hmmm....

 

[tomandrobin]

Thanks - we plan to - enjoy Harborside.

I had forgot to add to my post: while SVO claims to have polled Elites about the Villa Upgrade and came to the conclusion based on the poll that it caused more displeasure than benefit (hard to believe)- no where has anybody chimed-in on TUG that they were polled. So - which Elites were actually polled? You would think at least on Tugger would have mentioned that they had been polled - hmmm....

Must have been the same poll that indicated we wanted luggage tags!

Curious why they only sent one tag. We usually need 2 to 10 tags for travel. Who only uses one?

 

[LisaRex]

I've got no beef with Fred M. giving his perspective. In fact, I honestly appreciate it. One of his colleagues offered invaluable advice when I was searching for my resale which saved me a ton of money. It's his, and others' characterization of owners who complain about Starwood's business practices as "whiny" that I take issue with. It is perfectly legitimate for unhappy consumers to air their grievances about timeshare management on a timeshare message board. If you don't agree with what I say then let's open up a respectful dialogue about it.

 

[Negma]

Thanks - we plan to - enjoy Harborside.

I had forgot to add to my post: while SVO claims to have polled Elites about the Villa Upgrade and came to the conclusion based on the poll that it caused more displeasure than benefit (hard to believe)- no where has anybody chimed-in on TUG that they were polled. So - which Elites were actually polled? You would think at least on Tugger would have mentioned that they had been polled - hmmm....

We were polled. We discussed why we liked the upgrade perk. This thread has gotten off track and personal and that bothers me more than the issue.

I would still like for folks to put their efforts into ideas to improve the program. What would motivate you to buy more properties other than what everyone already agrees is a great product.

 

[pointsjunkie]

i have kept out of this for the most part, but i have read on this site that the elites would stand on-line at wkorv and be upset with the staff if they could not get upgraded,we did this to ourselves.

the staff would report back to management that the owners were unhappy and sometimes obussive because they were expecting an upgrade (as in entitled) so to alleviate the problem they just got rid of it. it stated upgrades only if a available. poor behavior of a few, made this happen.

do i think 5* should have the perk back, absolutely.

 

[arlene22]

I would still like for folks to put their efforts into ideas to improve the program. What would motivate you to buy more properties other than what everyone already agrees is a great product.

To me, the most valuable Elite perk comes at 4* : the ability to hold a reservation and waitlist at the same time.

 

[gns4az]

Consistency

I had forgot to add to my post: while SVO claims to have polled Elites about the Villa Upgrade and came to the conclusion based on the poll that it caused more displeasure than benefit (hard to believe)- no where has anybody chimed-in on TUG that they were polled. So - which Elites were actually polled? You would think at least on Tugger would have mentioned that they had been polled - hmmm....

Were we (a 3 *) polled? Not.

Did we get an email notice of the changes? Not (so happens to arrived via snail mail yesterday - discouraging that I had to read about it here nearly two weeks ago)

Luggage tags? Don't really care, but Not.

Are we unhappy with the changes to the elite program? Yes

Would we buy additional developer units? Absolutely Not We understood the rules of the upgrade benefit ("as available basis") and received upgrades twice in the past two years. Since we have the advantage of traveling during off peak times at most locations, we saw this as a distinct benefit of multiple week ownership.

 

[Westin5Star]

My Response to Starwood Survey:

My communications have been regarding the villa upgrade option that was COMPLETELY taken away from all Elite levels. Based on the numbers, it makes total sense for you to still, at minimum, offer villa upgrades to 5* Elites at time of checkin when available. There is no reason to allow rooms to go unused!

Suzanne and everyone else I talked to was nice but the decision that is being made lacks proper logic. If owners are upset because all of the lounge chairs are taken, do you take away all of the lounge chairs? I believe that recommunicating the policy to remind owners would have been the best way to handle the problem. It also probably would have made sense to disallow calls for upgrades and require this to be communicated only at checkin and when available.

I believe that with the number of 3* Elites vs. number of resorts, it also possibly even made sense to close out the upgrade option for 3*s (just surprising them with it when it was available). There are only about 2000 4* and 5*. Based on occupancy rates and number or SVO rooms available this option for your "most valued?" customers should have continued!

Starwood is getting alot of bad press about this and has already lost past and future sales. I believe that quickly reconsidering and revising this policy will lesson the future negative impact of this very poor decision!