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2024 Maintenance Fees DISCUSSION THREAD

Red elephant

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The association meeting is early next month. If they approve the fully funded budget, fees increase to 82.4 cents per point, up 20.5%. If they go with the alternate budget that waives full funding which is what normally happens, it will be 78.74 cents, up 15.1%. The email cites the following factors contributing to the increase:

"1) Labor – there are still multiple markets with large increases in wages and benefits.

2) Reserves - Significant increases due to inflation, labor, infrastructure and, for only those underlying component associations in Florida, Florida Senate Bill 154.

3) Insurance premium increase.

Also twenty (20) underlying component associations returned a portion of their prior year estimated surplus funds reducing their 2023 assessments. They are not forecasting an additional return of surplus funds in their 2024 budgets creating an additional increase in their respective maintenance fees."

Both budgets indicate club dues will increase to $240 for owner and select, $280 for executive and presidential and stay the same at $295 for chairman.
I am at Sheraton Vistana Villages and was just told these reserves are for all condos in the country not just Florida . So all our maintenance fees will go up. Is this true?
 

dioxide45

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I am at Sheraton Vistana Villages and was just told these reserves are for all condos in the country not just Florida . So all our maintenance fees will go up. Is this true?
Each resort establishes their own reserve and maintenance fee budget.
 

Superchief

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I suspect you know the answer... MVC drew up the condo documents. For the newer resorts, they pay utilities for their operations, but there is no rent and they keep the profit. This is true of the onsite sales offices. They pay the costs to operate the sales office and the utilities, but they don't pay a monthly rent to the HOA and they keep the profit from sales. The same is true for food and beverage. I don't know specifically about cabanas, but I would think it comes down to who owns the actual equipment. If the HOA buys, pays to fix it and replaces it, then the HOA should earn the revenue. At Westin Kierland Villas you need to check with the resort concierge for cabana rentals. The concierge is part of marketing which is part of sales. I can discern from that where the revenue goes.
I am curious regarding who pays for the concierge. They offer some support in answering questions and making reservations, but their primary purpose is to generate sales presentations. Do Owners pay their salaries?
 

Red elephant

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That isn't true. The law in question is a Florida law.
That’s what I thought. I told them no I was not given up any deeds outside of Florida . That’s their new angle at scamming now.
 

emeryjre

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it would be really informative to see the operating budget in detail for the resorts
I have never asked to see the operating budget in detail
I would think somebody here at TUG has asked to see the operating budget in detail at some point
What was the outcome of asking for access to the operating budget in detail, not just a summary
 

sponger76

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They are saying that the new law applies to all not just those in Florida
That would only be true if it were a federal law, but the laws regarding reserve funding for timeshare and condo associations are state by state. It would be unconstitutional for one state to pass a law and say that it is binding on other states.
 

dioxide45

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That’s what I thought. I told them no I was not given up any deeds outside of Florida . That’s their new angle at scamming now.
Well, we don't know if it is or isn't going up for deeds outside Florida. As noted in another thread, the maintenance fees will go up at other resorts, as will the reserve fees. Fees almost always go up. I doubt there will be any that go down this year.
 

dioxide45

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That would only be true if it were a federal law, but the laws regarding reserve funding for timeshare and condo associations are state by state. It would be unconstitutional for one state to pass a law and say that it is binding on other states.
Apparently they've done it with Sales Tax. Otherwise I agree, when it comes to real estate, laws are on a state by state basis. Thus why we will never see federal consumer protection laws as it relates to timeshare.
 

Red elephant

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Well, we don't know if it is or isn't going up for deeds outside Florida. As noted in another thread, the maintenance fees will go up at other resorts, as will the reserve fees. Fees almost always go up. I doubt there will be any that go down this year.
I was under the impression they were going up significantly because of the reserve situation .
 

Superchief

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I own at 6 MVC resorts and closely review the maintenance fee per category information that we are provided. However, the resorts don't use the same formats and some have multiple components of fees that make it difficult to compare the costs across resorts. I prefer the most common format which breaks out the cost for each week, and shows the comparison to the prior year. However, Oceana Palms doesn't ever show the prior year and another resort only shows the total expense (not by week). I think this is intentional so owners are unable to make comparisons and identify the drivers of the increases.
 

dioxide45

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I own at 6 MVC resorts and closely review the maintenance fee per category information that we are provided. However, the resorts don't use the same formats and some have multiple components of fees that make it difficult to compare the costs across resorts. I prefer the most common format which breaks out the cost for each week, and shows the comparison to the prior year. However, Oceana Palms doesn't ever show the prior year and another resort only shows the total expense (not by week). I think this is intentional so owners are unable to make comparisons and identify the drivers of the increases.
I've noticed these inconsistencies too. Our two Marriott weeks (Grande Vista and Harbour Lake) both show the comparison to the prior year where our two Sheraton Vistana Villages weeks do not. I don't know or understand the reasoning for this. Perhaps it has something to do with the number of units?
 

dioxide45

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I'm not sure I'd say that the Feds imposed anything, so much as they ruled when States could legally charge it. The States still set the rules on how much, and what qualifies.
I was more or less replying to this below. Not necessarily federal laws, but apparently the US Constitution supports it.
It would be unconstitutional for one state to pass a law and say that it is binding on other states.
 

bnoble

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But it’s not binding on everyone in other states. It’s binding on someone in another state doing business in the taxing state. The SCOTUS ruling was only clarifying what the limits of “doing business” meant.
 

sponger76

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Apparently they've done it with Sales Tax. Otherwise I agree, when it comes to real estate, laws are on a state by state basis. Thus why we will never see federal consumer protection laws as it relates to timeshare.
The sales tax thing has to do with doing business in the taxing state, like internet sales to a resident. It's not generally binding on other states or people in other states that are not doing business in or with the taxing state. It's not the same as passing a law in Florida and saying that every timeshare in the whole country has to follow this even if they're not doing business in Florida.
 

Gemini Chica

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Here is the breakdown for the Abound points....

2024 Property Tax Fee: $0.00456
2024 Operating Fee: $0.78292
Total: $0.78748 per point, for a 15.1% uptick.
Represented per BI (250 points) = $196.87

2024 Club Dues
$240 Owners and Select Members
$280 Executive and Presidential Members
$295 Chairman's Club Members

Prior year…
2023 Property Tax Fee: $0.00592
2023 Operating Fee: $0.678
Total: $0.68392
WOW, JUST WOW ...... that's some jump.
 

timsi

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Of course this was disclosed in the condominium documents -- probably on about page 48 of the 55 page legalese CC&R's that everyone was given at the time of purchase; Marriott and its lawyers are many things, but not stupid.

I know Marriott is screwing me over trying to make a profit. My analysis goes more like this: am I satisfied paying "X" dollars to buy it and "Y" dollars per year in MF's to use it, knowing the MF's will increase at Marriott's discretion? If "yes", I close my eyes, hold my nose, and buy. If "no", I use my vacation dollars elsewhere.
The problem is that this is not a victimless action. When you obtain something for virtually nothing, any profit you can make from it becomes significant and this allows Marriott rent units at a (much) lower rate, and that includes non-owners who come to attend sales tours paying a very low rate. Owners suspect that non-timeshare owners are more inclined to neglect the property, create disturbances like noisy music, leave behind litter, and fail to supervise children, among other concerns. Consequently, we not only shoulder the financial burden of routine wear and tear, utilities, housekeeping (probably daily!) labor costs etc, but are also burdened with issues probably uncommonly associated with regular patrons (owners and exchangers).

I strongly believe that developers should fairly compensate us for the unoccupied last-minute units they grab. Can they book these units without owning additional units? It seems that they can, based on the rules, but we should receive compensation for these bookings. I'm not entirely sure why any owner, who is acting in their own best interest, would dispute this.
 

dioxide45

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I strongly believe that developers should fairly compensate us for the unoccupied last-minute units they grab. Can they book these units without owning additional units? It seems that they can, based on the rules, but we should receive compensation for these bookings. I'm not entirely sure why any owner, who is acting in their own best interest, would dispute this.
An owner has already paid a maintenance fee for that unused booking. So the resort has received compensation to cover costs. The owner who fails to reserve is the one that loses out.
 

Eric B

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Just got the proposed budget for Westin St John. Looks like a 15% increase if it goes through.
 

cubigbird

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Just got the proposed budget for Westin St John. Looks like a 15% increase if it goes through.
28% increase last year for WSJ Sunset Bay. If 15% holds, that’s a 43% increase over 2 years. That’s not sustainable. I would expect delinquency to spike as that’s significantly above the rate of inflation.
 

Eric B

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28% increase last year for WSJ Sunset Bay. If 15% holds, that’s a 43% increase over 2 years. That’s not sustainable. I would expect delinquency to spike as that’s significantly above the rate of inflation.
I should have been more precise - that's VGV. $3,184.15 for a 1 BR, $2,388.02 for a studio.
 
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