[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[Fasttr]

If someone needs to make a minimum of 3 or 4 reservations every trip, they would need a ton of excess points and or ownerships. . Long run there may be mf dollars being thrown in the toilet just to cover that need.

GregT uses a method he refers to as "parking points". Lets say you have a total of 9000 points. Perhaps with those points, you want to take a vacation in Feb, June and Oct and plan to use approx. 3000 points for each of them. So for the Feb trip, at 13 months out, he will book 3 differing DC ressies at different locations in the month of February. He knows he will only take one trip in Feb, but why commit to a location and exact date 13 months out if he doesn't have to. He has the points, so why just book one ressie and be locked in when the rest of his points will not have a use until he has to book the June trip four months from his initial booking for the Feb trip.

When the 13 month window for needing to book the June trip rolls around, GregT will decide which one (or two) of the Feb trips he is not likely to take, and he will cancel that (or them), and with the freed up points (be it 3000 if he cancelled one, or 6000 if he cancelled two) he will book one or two June ressies....and so on and so forth.

His philosophy....why let your points sit in your account unused....might as well solidify a reservation he might use....or might rent....or might cancel. That affords him a lot of flexibility.

I often use a similar approach.

 

[Jason245]

GregT uses a method he refers to as "parking points". Lets say you have a total of 9000 points. Perhaps with those points, you want to take a vacation in Feb, June and Oct and plan to use approx. 3000 points for each of them. So for the Feb trip, at 13 months out, he will book 3 differing DC ressies at different locations in the month of February. He knows he will only take one trip in Feb, but why commit to a location and exact date 13 months out if he doesn't have to. He has the points, so why just book one ressie and be locked in when the rest of his points will not have a use until he has to book the June trip four months from his initial booking for the Feb trip.

When the 13 month window for needing to book the June trip rolls around, GregT will decide which one (or two) of the Feb trips he is not likely to take, and he will cancel that (or them), and with the freed up points (be it 3000 if he cancelled one, or 6000 if he cancelled two) he will book one or two June ressies....and so on and so forth.

His philosophy....why let your points sit in your account unused....might as well solidify a reservation he might use....or might rent....or might cancel. That affords him a lot of flexibility.

I often use a similar approach.

Seems like an idiosyncratic situation..but as a family friend says.. it is all about piking the lock on the terms and conditions..

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[JIMinNC]

Oh dear I'm going to get censored soon for repeating myself. . .

The simplest way to work the MVC system is to develop a trusting relationship with an owner at Chairman level who can reserve the time you want. No need to commit to rack rates for a reservation that does not have a Fri/Sat/Sun check-in.

But in Greg T's example where he books multiple reservations on different dates because of work uncertainty, and then cancels the ones he can't use when he pins down the date he can travel, how would that work with your Chairman's Level rental approach? My take is he would have to pay the Chairman Owner for all the reservations right? Then what happens when he cancels? Do you give him his money back? Even if you tried to work with him and refunded the unwanted reservations the first time it happened, how would you react when Greg called you back next year wanting to do the same thing?

Granted, I could see where Greg's situation is not typical, but even us, with our limited ownership, have canceled four reservations in the three years we've owned Marriott Points. None were because of issues that "prevented" us from traveling that would tend to be covered by an insurance policy; there were just factors that caused US to change our minds. Most recently, we canceled a planned four-day late June trip to HHI because we had second thoughts about going again in the heat of the summer. I doubt that "fear of uncontrolled sweating" would fit the insurer's definition of "prevented". I suspect we would have been out of luck if our canceled reservations were the type of rentals you are speaking of. Despite the cancellations, at no time have we lost the utilization/value of our points, with the exception of 75 excess points that are leftover in the holding account and 25 Legacy points that couldn't be used for a booking that was mainly booked with Trust points. We may still find a way to use those 100 points before they expire in December 2017, but if we can't, so what? It's $53.

Update: By total coincidence I just stumbled on a use for those 100 orphan points mentioned just above. See post #334. So now, ALL points from the reservations we had to cancel have been successfully used for other bookings. No shrinkage at all.

 

[taffy19]

Absolutely false. Travel insurance would never cover this scenario. Think about it. How could it?

Travel insurance is very limited and you need to have proof from a doctor plus receipts for everything. There is also a limit when you can submit your bill and paid receipts.

This happened to me when I had a fall in Europe and had broken bones. The hospital took care of it but they didn't give me a bill when I asked for it. Over a year later, I received a bill but the insurance wouldn't pay it anymore.

If you insure your timeshare, it also covers limited stuff plus you need receipts and valid reasons. Changing your mind is not one of them.

PS. After reading this thread further, I have a question. Would insurance even cover one private party to another?

 

[GregT]

Fasttr, thank you for explaining Parking Points.

DavidVel, you are correct that my points do not go unused or are allowed to expire.

Quilter, you are right that having a trusted Chairmans Club person who is willing to make reservations for you allows you to leverage their status with no personal investment. I've made reservations using my CC for several TUGgers for exactly that reason - but they were all people I knew. I don't think that works for the person who is hoping to avoid the timeshare ownership conundrum.

Jason, has insuring your vacations been your standard approach and how much was the premium? Have you needed to submit claims and how easy was it to get paid?

Thank you.

Greg

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Jason. I just got a quote from Travel Guard for a simple $2,000 rental. It is $217 for the policy and CFAR only covers 50%. In other words I would net a loss of $1,217 if I were to cancel. If I were to make three reservations using the method you suggest, and then cancel two, I would pay a whopping $2,651 in insurance for the the $2,000 rental ((217x3)+1000+1000). Does that really seem like a viable option?

Filing a claim for work reasons would require a notarized statement from an officer of the company. That type of claim isn't going to be accepted over and over again.

 

[davidvel]

If you consider the booking value of a point to be $1.10, then your breakeven from a standard direct sale (not a hybrid package) is 17 years if it turns out you can't sell your points back. If you can sell your points back at $3/point, then the breakeven exit period is 12 years.

My mistake, I was looking at the 1.20 row.

 

[BocaBoy]

Jason, I find it odd that for someone who accuses others of throwing away their money on timeshares, that you advocate numerous EXPENSIVE cancel-for-any reason insurance policies as a routine matter. For a single expensive trip, yes, but for all trips as an alternative to ownership? Your comments consistently dismiss all contrary opinions in a conclusory fashion without really addressing their substance, no matter how well thought out, and you offer this as an alternative? Really?

 

[JIMinNC]

Ironically, I just completed an unexpected transaction that demonstrates what I like so much about Points...

As you can see from my signature, we've got a trip coming up to Marriott's Barony Beach Club HHI in April. It's during the RBC Heritage PGA tournament. Ours is a Sunday to Sunday reservation, so I had originally planned to leave town and drive back to Charlotte after the final round of the tournament wraps up around 6pm or 7pm on Sunday the 16th, meaning we would arrive home at 11pm or so - maybe later if it took a while to get from the tournament to our car using the tournament shuttle buses. Upon reflection, I decided I really didn't want to drive four hours after spending six or seven hours walking around Harbour Town Golf Links watching golf. So I went onto the MVCI website to see what might be available for that one night, April 16. Barony was available at 350 points, but then I saw the gem - Marriott's Heritage Club had an orphan night available for April 16 for only 200 points. Heritage Club is literally right across the street from Harbour Town Golf Course. We can check out of Barony Sunday mid-late morning, drive to Heritage Club, get my parking pass and park the car, walk to the tournament, enjoy the final round, walk back to Heritage Club after play has ended, and claim the room. I also verified with Heritage Club front desk that they would let me park there before the 4pm check-in time as long as I had a reservation for that night.

This allowed me to use the orphan 75 holding account Trust Points and 25 Legacy Points that I just mentioned up in post #328 and didn't have another good use for prior to the end of 2017 expiration. It only required that I borrow 100 points from 2018, which has a "cost" of probably $55 or so (estimating what the 2018 Points MF might be). If I later find that I need those 100 points for 2018, I can rent points to replace them. I first considered going ahead and renting 100 use year 2017 points to complete the transaction without borrowing, but there were no 2017 Points listed on VPE, so I went ahead and borrowed and said we'll deal with the shortfall later if need be. That way I was also able to complete the Points transaction without waiting to complete a point rental transfer, before someone else grabbed that night.

So, for a points "cost" of about $108 for one night (only $55 of which is using points that I might have had another use for; the 100 orphan points might have gone unused), I have a place to stay Sunday night within walking distance of the golf tournament.

 

[Quilter]

Hi, could you please explain in more detail how we can book Marriott hotels with Plus Points? Thank you.

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Sorry, I can't. When the DC was rolled out a corporate management person came to OP to discuss benefits. Hotel reservations were one of those. When I wasn't able to get what I needed he figured a way to trade my points for the hotel. I think it was a unique situation.

 

[Jason245]

Jason, I find it odd that for someone who accuses others of throwing away their money on timeshares, that you advocate numerous EXPENSIVE cancel-for-any reason insurance policies as a routine matter. For a single expensive trip, yes, but for all trips as an alternative to ownership? Your comments consistently dismiss all contrary opinions in a conclusory fashion without really addressing their substance, no matter how well thought out, and you offer this as an alternative? Really?

Show me one post I have ever made where I accused someone of throwing away money on a timeshare. My objective has always been education and making sure that any retail purchaser has all the information to make an educated and informed decision.

I have not advocated a single insurance policy, I just pointed out that it at least exists AFTER you so boldly challenged me to "add new perspectives". I did that and at lease one person found it interesting, and new and a tid bit they found important.

Everyone has their own circumstances and situations. I have a finance background, I have read countless threads of people who have bought from developers only to regret it later, On the TUG marketplace there are literally hundreds if not thousands of quality rentals. OP is nervious about renting or doing business with private individuals, I present a way to alleviate their concern and you attack me by saying saying it is too expensive.

As best I can tell, OP is planning on using their points for themselves and not playing the book 3 reservations and keep 1 game. By my guess it will be for 1 or 2 reservations a year.

Even at 2% return that $30k provides $600 to cover the cost of insurance and some extra money for MF vs Rental cost difference, and any year you don't go on vacation (or maybe go somewhere where there is no MVC or where you would have to spend extra money on an exchange out of MVC to somewhere else) you have $600 in your pocket. No Club dues, no changing terms and conditions, no perpetual commitments or worry about liquidation before "pay back".

I admit I don't know enough about MVC to know the true difference between rental rates and MF on the points level, but you better believe I would want to know this information if it was part of my analysis.

What solutions do you offer? Or are you activly advocating purchase from a developer as being the advise TUG should give? What do you have to add to the conversation other then to state that I am adding nothing and my every suggestion is terrible and that I am walking around telling others they are wrong?

What substance have I not addressed? To that end, What substance have you addressed?

 

[Quilter]

GregT uses a method he refers to as "parking points". Lets say you have a total of 9000 points. Perhaps with those points, you want to take a vacation in Feb, June and Oct and plan to use approx. 3000 points for each of them. So for the Feb trip, at 13 months out, he will book 3 differing DC ressies at different locations in the month of February. He knows he will only take one trip in Feb, but why commit to a location and exact date 13 months out if he doesn't have to. He has the points, so why just book one ressie and be locked in when the rest of his points will not have a use until he has to book the June trip four months from his initial booking for the Feb trip.

When the 13 month window for needing to book the June trip rolls around, GregT will decide which one (or two) of the Feb trips he is not likely to take, and he will cancel that (or them), and with the freed up points (be it 3000 if he cancelled one, or 6000 if he cancelled two) he will book one or two June ressies....and so on and so forth.

His philosophy....why let your points sit in your account unused....might as well solidify a reservation he might use....or might rent....or might cancel. That affords him a lot of flexibility.

I often use a similar approach.

I do too. I've had to learn, though, not to get caught on Saturday having all my points locked up in reservations and then being unable to reserve something wonderful on a Sunday when Owner Services is closed.

 

[Quilter]

Insurance talk is interesting.

I brought some paperwork with me on this trip. One item was the travel insurance papers for a trip missed last year due to pneumonia. It was a missed week in the 1 bedroom portion of a unit at OP. Talked to the insurance company about the $ amount to put in box. She said to write "as per Marriott". Curious to see what rate they will use. Will it be the rack rate they were quoting on marriott.com?

 

[Quilter]

Is the trip insurance on the Marriott Visa applicable to our weeks if we paid maintenance fee with the Visa?

 

[JIMinNC]

Hi, could you please explain in more detail how we can book Marriott hotels with Plus Points? Thank you.

Sorry, I can't. When the DC was rolled out a corporate management person came to OP to discuss benefits. Hotel reservations were one of those. When I wasn't able to get what I needed he figured a way to trade my points for the hotel. I think it was a unique situation.

There are a small number of Marriott hotels that are available within the Explorer Collection choices that can be booked on a nightly basis using Destination Club Points. So as long as the PlusPoints aren't restricted from accessing Explorer Collection choices, they could be used to book the limited set of hotels that are offered as part of that Collection. Those hotels, however, tend to require A LOT of Destination Club points, usually a lot more per night than a typical MVCI timeshare night

 

[davidvel]

I admit I don't know enough about MVC to know the true difference between rental rates and MF on the points level, but you better believe I would want to know this information if it was part of my analysis.

You may have missed this post from the OP: Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

Based on a spot check of the listings it is a reasonable representation of the "cost" of reserving the dates at FULL (non-discounted senior/AAA/7VC) retail rates on Marriott.com

That being said, many of these were likely run close in time to the travel date, where inventory is limited and prices at their highest, from my experience on some of the locations/rates. And some of the highest $/DC point numbers are next to impossible reservations with DC points. I would say its on the high side of what you would actually pay at marriott.com (and certainly far from a guarantee that you could ever reserve the hypothetical dates with DC points.)

 

[Jason245]

You may have missed this post from the OP: Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

Based on a spot check of the listings it is a reasonable representation of the "cost" of reserving the dates at FULL (non-discounted senior/AAA/7VC) retail rates on Marriott.com

That being said, many of these were likely run close in time to the travel date, where inventory is limited and prices at their highest, from my experience on some of the locations/rates. And some of the highest $/DC point numbers are next to impossible reservations with DC points. I would say its on the high side of what you would actually pay at marriott.com (and certainly far from a guarantee that you could ever reserve the hypothetical dates with DC points.)

Let me clarify:

How much are the MF for a 2BR at Marriot Cypress Harbor? (Currently 2BR are available for $1350 - $1800 range) and how many points does that take?

How much are MF for 2BR at Lakeshore Reserve (currently offered at 1875) and how many points does that take?

What about some of the other options?

Based on original post, OP says that MF and other fees max out at $0.58/point. that equates to an annual MF of $2320. I don't know what those 4k points will get one... will it get a 2BR for a week? a 3BR for a week? a 1BR for 2 weeks.

How much would it cost to rent the equivalent ownership? would it really cost $6k as OP suggests? or less than $4400 as the survey suggests?

lets assume $4400 (and assume that OP wouldn't decide to get a lower quality resort to stay at in the $1-2k rental range for a week) to the $2320 example. 4400-2320 = $2080. $30k (assuming no interest earned on money)/ 2080 = 14 years of renting before owning becomes a better deal. Add any extra fees for exchanges or points savings and of course the actual interest earned on the money etc... and the time increases. If the OP decides that they are open to not MVC resorts and rents elsewhere where rentals may be equal or less than the MF at MVC, then the time is even larger.

in this game you are only limited by your willingness to compare your options and how big a pool you are willing to use for your population. When I do my own analysis, I actually compare rentals to what a true similar rental would be within both hotels (competitors and same), Home away, AirBNB etc.

again, there is no right answer except the one that is right for you.

For example, my hgvc cost per point in mf make orlando stays a break even deal at best, but in Marco Island a great deal.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Let me clarify:

How much are the MF for a 2BR at Marriot Cypress Harbor? (Currently 2BR are available for $1350 - $1800 range) and how many points does that take?

How much are MF for 2BR at Lakeshore Reserve (currently offered at 1875) and how many points does that take?

What about some of the other options?

Based on original post, OP says that MF and other fees max out at $0.58/point. that equates to an annual MF of $2320. I don't know what those 4k points will get one... will it get a 2BR for a week? a 3BR for a week? a 1BR for 2 weeks.

How much would it cost to rent the equivalent ownership? would it really cost $6k as OP suggests? or less than $4400 as the survey suggests?

lets assume $4400 (and assume that OP wouldn't decide to get a lower quality resort to stay at in the $1-2k rental range for a week) to the $2320 example. 4400-2320 = $2080. $30k (assuming no interest earned on money)/ 2080 = 14 years of renting before owning becomes a better deal. Add any extra fees for exchanges or points savings and of course the actual interest earned on the money etc... and the time increases. If the OP decides that they are open to not MVC resorts and rents elsewhere where rentals may be equal or less than the MF at MVC, then the time is even larger.

in this game you are only limited by your willingness to compare your options and how big a pool you are willing to use for your population. When I do my own analysis, I actually compare rentals to what a true similar rental would be within both hotels (competitors and same), Home away, AirBNB etc..

again, there is no right answer except the one that is right for you.

For example, my hgvc cost per point in mf make orlando stays a break even deal at best, but in Marco Island a great deal.

Annual MF+Membership due cost per point is $0.50 on our particular hybrid deal and includes the $225/yr membership due. The $0.40/point MF on our enrolled week brought this down from the $0.53 standard MF/pt direct from the developer. Adding in the membership due brought it up to $0.57 in our original deal.

Opportunity cost isn't relevant on the calculation of returns; although it is relevant when evaluating the end result and deciding whether to do it. If the return was 5% then it'd be worth noting that there are more-liquid low-risk investments that could return the same. In the past 5 years 30-yr treasuries have hovered around 3% interest. TS is a pretty low-risk investment overall so long as you value the booking value of a point, but it's not liquid at all. Stock market performance generally averages 10% returns (with reinvested dividends) over long periods of time, so I'd argue that if you can get close to 10% returns on any investment with lower overall risk than DJIA you're doing pretty well.

For kicks, here are the IRRs for TS points based on the 3 ways we've discussed acquiring, and adjusted for new info learned since the first post:

BookingVal Resale Hybrid Direct
$1.00 8.55% 7.20% 2.50%
$1.10 10.45% 8.93% 3.95%
$1.20 12.35% 10.65% 5.40%
$1.30 14.10% 12.20% 6.60%
$1.40 15.85% 13.75% 7.80%
$1.50 17.53% 15.20% 8.90%

I've bolded where we feel we are in this, but Jason will be firmly "above" the chart (valuing points <$1) so for him TS doesnt make financial sense.

To be clear, the financial piece is a component, and I wouldnt have done this if there's not a decent argument that it makes financial sense on some level, but overall the decision to own TS (regardless of format) is about a lot more than the financials.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

I don't know what those 4k points will get one... will it get a 2BR for a week? a 3BR for a week? a 1BR for 2 weeks.

BTW: https://fabtimeshare.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/DC-Points-chart-2017.pdf

 

[Jason245]

but Jason will be firmly "above" the chart (valuing points <$1) so for him TS doesnt make financial sense.

I have said that I don't know enough to answer. I am nowhere on the chart.

To put it in another way, If I were to be told that the TS cost $30k, and for that $30k and $2500 in MF a year, I could get Week 52 in a 4BR presidential suit in time square, I would tell you that it is an amazing deal worth every single penny. If that same $30k and $2500/year in MF can only get me a studio in Orlando for week 3, I would tell you it is a terrible deal.

and I own a TS, so it makes financial sense to me (technically since I own an EOY Even and EOY Odd, I own two ).

 

[Jason245]

BTW: https://fabtimeshare.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/DC-Points-chart-2017.pdf

Based on my brief review, it looks like somewhere between 1-2 weeks in a 2BR depending on season. Assuming 2% interest on the $30k.

So if we assume on the high end, we get 2 full weeks in a 2BR, the rental rate for the same is $2500/week ($5k/year) @2% interest we are talking about 12 years for cashflow breakeven. At 4400 rental it is 17-18 years before cashflow breakeven. If you can rent them for 4k or less it is over 22 years.

In all honesty, if it was me and I was dead set on making the purchase from MVC, based on these point charts, I would probably want a minimum of 6k+ points for those MF dollars, I would tell them to keep all their bonuses and other Crap (which will be gone in a relatively short period of time) and instead insist that they give me more perpetual points at lower cost per point MF dollar (if at all possible). Bonus points are gone once used, but perpetual points that can guarantee 3 weeks in a 2BR at low MF $$ is a perpetual benefit that will pay its self back within 5 years.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Based on my brief review, it looks like somewhere between 1-2 weeks in a 2BR depending on season. Assuming 2% interest on the $30k.

So if we assume on the high end, we get 2 full weeks in a 2BR, the rental rate for the same is $2500/week ($5k/year) @2% interest we are talking about 12 years for cashflow breakeven. At 4400 rental it is 17-18 years before cashflow breakeven. If you can rent them for 4k or less it is over 22 years.

In all honesty, if it was me and I was dead set on making the purchase from MVC, based on these point charts, I would probably want a minimum of 6k+ points for those MF dollars, I would tell them to keep all their bonuses and other Crap (which will be gone in a relatively short period of time) and instead insist that they give me more perpetual points at lower cost per point MF dollar (if at all possible). Bonus points are gone once used, but perpetual points that can guarantee 3 weeks in a 2BR at low MF $$ is a perpetual benefit that will pay its self back within 5 years.

It sounds like we're approaching the logic similarly, but I'm not following where you're getting most of your numbers. Let's see if I can follow:

4,000 pts package
Purchase price would be 4,000 x $6.26 = $25,000
Assumed $1.10 booking value of a point = $4,400/yr
Annual fees all-in: $2,000 @ $0.50/pt (maintenance fee plus membership dues averaged across all points)
Annual "return": $2,400 ($4,400-$2,000)
Breakeven: 10.4ish years assuming $0 residual value of ownership (consistent with my post #284)
Breakeven: 5 years assuming $3/pt residual value of ownership (consistent with my post #284)

Not sure what you're doing with the 2% but it may not be appropriate since the future returns are all in today's dollars. In the future, the annual fees go up but so do the cost of lodging in general, so the booking value of a point does as well. If you're arguing that MFs will increase at a higher rate than the cost of lodging you're welcome to do that, but that'd be a whole other topic.

I'm not sure where you're coming up with the number of years for your breakeven calculations

 

[Jason245]

It sounds like we're approaching the logic similarly, but I'm not following where you're getting most of your numbers. Let's see if I can follow:

4,000 pts package
valued at $1.10 booking value of a point = $4,400/yr
Purchase price would be 4,000 x $6.26 = $25,000
Annual fees all-in: $2,000 @ $0.50/pt (maintenance fee plus membership dues averaged across all points)
Annual "return": $2,400 ($4,400-$2,000)
Breakeven: 10.4ish years assuming $0 residual value of ownership (consistent with my post #284)
Breakeven: 5 years assuming $3/pt residual value of ownership (consistent with my post #284)

Not sure what you're doing with the 2% but it may not be appropriate since the future returns are all in today's dollars. In the future, the annual fees go up but so do the cost of lodging in general, so the booking value of a point does as well. If you're arguing that MFs will increase at a higher rate than the cost of lodging you're welcome to do that, but that'd be a whole other topic.

I'm not sure where you're coming up with the number of years for your breakeven calculations

2 percent on 30k (basic cash return on a cd).

Annual math

Remaining amount of 30k investment -(5k rental -2360mf -interest on remaining amount) = new remaining amount.
Play with rental rate in excel. . Once remain amount falls below zero you have break even.

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[BocaBoy]

Show me one post I have ever made where I accused someone of throwing away money on a timeshare. My objective has always been education and making sure that any retail purchaser has all the information to make an educated and informed decision.

I have not advocated a single insurance policy, I just pointed out that it at least exists AFTER you so boldly challenged me to "add new perspectives". I did that and at lease one person found it interesting, and new and a tid bit they found important.

Everyone has their own circumstances and situations. I have a finance background, I have read countless threads of people who have bought from developers only to regret it later, On the TUG marketplace there are literally hundreds if not thousands of quality rentals. OP is nervious about renting or doing business with private individuals, I present a way to alleviate their concern and you attack me by saying saying it is too expensive.

As best I can tell, OP is planning on using their points for themselves and not playing the book 3 reservations and keep 1 game. By my guess it will be for 1 or 2 reservations a year.

Even at 2% return that $30k provides $600 to cover the cost of insurance and some extra money for MF vs Rental cost difference, and any year you don't go on vacation (or maybe go somewhere where there is no MVC or where you would have to spend extra money on an exchange out of MVC to somewhere else) you have $600 in your pocket. No Club dues, no changing terms and conditions, no perpetual commitments or worry about liquidation before "pay back".

I admit I don't know enough about MVC to know the true difference between rental rates and MF on the points level, but you better believe I would want to know this information if it was part of my analysis.

What solutions do you offer? Or are you activly advocating purchase from a developer as being the advise TUG should give? What do you have to add to the conversation other then to state that I am adding nothing and my every suggestion is terrible and that I am walking around telling others they are wrong?

What substance have I not addressed? To that end, What substance have you addressed?

Just read this whole thread. I do not think you have.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

2 percent on 30k (basic cash return on a cd).

Annual math

Remaining amount of 30k investment -(5k rental -2360mf -interest on remaining amount) = new remaining amount.

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I'm lost. Where did you get $30k? And what is the $5k rental? What's the 2,360 mf?

Regarding interest, I don't think you should factor the returns associated with one investment option when calculating the returns of another. The risk/return/liquidity tradeoff with investments is a given. Otherwise why use a 2% CD? Why not a 3% treasury or 5% investment grade corporate bond?