[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[MOXJO7282]

+1
Buying a TS is buying an ever increasing liability called maintenance fees. We are former owners of a platinum HHI week and we saw and heard a freight train coming called maintenance fees.. We sold to get out of the path and it hasn't slowed down yet.
I'm also really thankful we got out before this point based destination club came along. Seems like an ever bigger boondoggle. The 4000 point package described here had an upfront cost of $40,000 but the points would be insufficient to get desirable weeks at peak times. It wouldn't be enough points to get our old week at our former resort at our peak timeframe.
Then to pay a $2200 yearly maintenance every single year.
Then to deal with constantly changing rules and policies.
I cannot fathom.

My advice to newbies considering this purchase is to go directly to a financial advisor. Also run it by your parents, coworkers and friends and let them tell you what they think. Be prepared for what you will hear.

Not trying to pile on but do agree that you're too one sided. I don't want to offend anyone who still buys direct but I do agree with you that it was an ill-advised purchase and also believe any direct purchase is the same but to say every TS purchase is a rip-off is not accurate.

You mention HHI platinum. If you buy the right Marriott HHi platinum units, and actually even some gold season HHI units at a good resale price you will always be able to get most or all of your money back and the MF fees of less than $1400 for a 2BD on the ocean is still very reasonable. I mention HHI because that is one location I'm knowledgeable on but there are many other resale units that this would also be true for.

 

[Quilter]

The effect is the same and I also spend a lot of time working the MR system, but it is interesting that I never have considered it to be part of my MVCI ownership. I consider the effort to be part of maximizing the value of my hotel loyalty program, which frankly has produced even more value and memories over the years than my timeshare ownership (which has also produced a lot). It is why I first bought at Sabal Palms, although exchanging for MR points is no longer a good option with some exceptions.

Paying our MF's with the Marriott Visa generates lots of MR points that we would not have without ownership. It's a byproduct and has become the driving force behind becoming a points and miles junkie.

 

[echino]

Yes, I saw what the final deal was. It makes no financial sense. What's more, it also makes no sense from non-financial standpoint. There is nothing luxury about this purchase, except for the price paid. You take on a liability and lose any flexibility or freedom to plan your vacations. You are now tied to the system and are forced to play by its arcane rules.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

So what was the final deal? I missed that post.

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Original deal: 4,000pts for $39,875* plus $0.58/pt annual fees (MF+MD)
Added to deal: 3,825pts for $10,700* plus $0.40/pt annual fee (MF) -> this is an enrolled silver week at Ocean Pointe that can be converted to DC
New total hybrid deal: 7,825pts for $50,575* plus $0.50/pt annual fee (MF+MD)

*doesn't include value of free trips, tax benefits, financing costs, or closing costs, which are net favorable to the tune of about $2,000 if valuing the "free trip" points at $0.70.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Yes, I saw what the final deal was. It makes no financial sense. What's more, it also makes no sense from non-financial standpoint. There is nothing luxury about this purchase, except for the price paid. You take on a liability and lose any flexibility or freedom to plan your vacations. You are now tied to the system and are forced to play by its arcane rules.

so you're in favor of it then? please clarify

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Paying our MF's with the Marriott Visa generates lots of MR points that we would not have without ownership. It's a byproduct and has become the driving force behind becoming a points and miles junkie.

You know what this is a great point and not included in any of my previous calculations. Putting about $3,900 MF on Marriott card w/ 5x points = 19,500 MR points per year which is worth roughly $195. Nice perk. I think I'm going to liquidate all of my 401ks and IRAs and buy up more points. Echino, thoughts?

 

[Jason245]

Original deal: 4,000pts for $39,875* plus $0.58/pt annual fees (MF+MD)
Added to deal: 3,825pts for $10,700* plus $0.40/pt annual fee (MF) -> this is an enrolled silver week at Ocean Pointe that can be converted to DC
New total hybrid deal: 7,825pts for $50,575* plus $0.50/pt annual fee (MF+MD)

*doesn't include value of free trips, tax benefits, financing costs, or closing costs, which are net favorable to the tune of about $2,000 if valuing the "free trip" points at $0.70.

All I can say is.. wow.. just wow.. I am speachless, but this is the first time tug brian is going to have to record negative savings for finding tug.
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[echino]

Guy and girls, I know it's a timeshare forum, but take a step back just for a moment, and look at the bigger picture, not from a timesharing standpoint, but as a normal regular person. Imagine you don't own a timeshare. Now that you are not tied by your timeshare anymore, you have a freedom of choice how to make your vacation the best for you and your family. You can rent a timeshare from an owner. Any timeshare, not just in any single system like Marriott. You can rent a house on airbnb. You can buy an all inclusive package from an online travel agency, there are crazy good deals sometimes. Or you can book a luxury hotel. Or you can skip traveling if you cannot go, and still not pay those maintenance fees. Or you could play the credit cards miles and points system if you wish - or not. It's freedom!

 

[echino]

You know what this is a great point and not included in any of my previous calculations. Putting about $3,900 MF on Marriott card w/ 5x points = 19,500 MR points per year which is worth roughly $195. Nice perk. I think I'm going to liquidate all of my 401ks and IRAs and buy up more points. Echino, thoughts?

I have a better idea. Get the 35k SPG Amex, convert them to Marriott. Then you have 105,000 Marriott Rewards points. For free.

 

[BocaBoy]

I have a better idea. Get the 35k SPG Amex, convert them to Marriott. Then you have 105,000 Marriott Rewards points. For free.

You can do both.

 

[BocaBoy]

Paying our MF's with the Marriott Visa generates lots of MR points that we would not have without ownership. It's a byproduct and has become the driving force behind becoming a points and miles junkie.

I agree completely in terms of how it impacts behavior. My point is that I personally bought MVCI (Sabal Palms) in 1987 as an adjunct to the MR program in order to generate MR points. Back then exchanging for MR points made a developer timeshare purchase a great FINANCIAL move. Those days are gone but intellectually I still look at all the MR points aspects of MVCI as part of how I look at MR, not so much as how I look at MVCI. The behavior is identical, it is just the lens through which they are viewed. And to be honest, if I could have only one---MVCI or MR--I would choose MR. But I really like them both.

 

[BocaBoy]

Guy and girls, I know it's a timeshare forum, but take a step back just for a moment, and look at the bigger picture, not from a timesharing standpoint, but as a normal regular person. Imagine you don't own a timeshare. Now that you are not tied by your timeshare anymore, you have a freedom of choice how to make your vacation the best for you and your family. You can rent a timeshare from an owner. Any timeshare, not just in any single system like Marriott. You can rent a house on airbnb. You can buy an all inclusive package from an online travel agency, there are crazy good deals sometimes. Or you can book a luxury hotel. Or you can skip traveling if you cannot go, and still not pay those maintenance fees. Or you could play the credit cards miles and points system if you wish - or not. It's freedom!

Many of us do all those things AND also own and use timeshares. Why do you seem to view it as all-or-nothing?

 

[echino]

This is a view from a 2br OF at WKORVN (Maui). New Year 2015 week. Traveled with the whole family. My wife, parents and three kids. Paid $2,500 by renting direct from an owner who could not go. Who lost, and who gained from this transaction?

 

[BocaBoy]

....it also makes no sense from non-financial standpoint. There is nothing luxury about this purchase, except for the price paid. You take on a liability and lose any flexibility or freedom to plan your vacations. You are now tied to the system and are forced to play by its arcane rules.

I beg to differ. First, most people would definitely consider MVCI timeshares to be luxury accommodations. And second, in many ways our timeshare ownership has in fact INCREASED our flexibility and freedom to plan vacations.

 

[echino]

This is our cabin flying from Vancouver to Munich. Just my wife and me, nobody else there. This is luxury travel. Cost me less than ~$500. My point is if you play some system, might as well play it right, to maximize benefit and minimize cost. When you purchase a timeshare from a developer, you are not maximizing benefit, certainly not minimizing cost, and not playing the system. It's the system playing YOU.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

This is our cabin flying from Vancouver to Munich. Just my wife and me, nobody else there. This is luxury travel. Cost me less than ~$500. My point is if you play some system, might as well play it right, to maximize benefit and minimize cost. When you purchase a timeshare from a developer, you are not maximizing benefit, certainly not minimizing cost, and not playing the system. It's the system playing YOU.
View attachment 3333

You win?

 

[echino]

I beg to differ. First, most people would definitely consider MVCI timeshares to be luxury accommodations. And second, in many ways our timeshare ownership has in fact INCREASED our flexibility and freedom to plan vacations.

Marriott is not in the same league as true luxury accommodations, like Aman, MO, or even FS. I would say Marriott is about 4* on average. They may call themselves luxury, sure, but they are not. It's about the same when they call their timeshare units "villas".

Regarding increased flexibility when you own a timeshare. In real life most people have limited vacation time. If you own a timeshare, you will plan your vacation around your timeshare ownership. You are paying maintenance fees for it. So in practice owning a timeshare eliminates any vacations not involving your timeshare. You get tied to it, and lose out on a huge world that is outside of the system.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Guy and girls, I know it's a timeshare forum, but take a step back just for a moment, and look at the bigger picture, not from a timesharing standpoint, but as a normal regular person. Imagine you don't own a timeshare. Now that you are not tied by your timeshare anymore, you have a freedom of choice how to make your vacation the best for you and your family. You can rent a timeshare from an owner. Any timeshare, not just in any single system like Marriott. You can rent a house on airbnb. You can buy an all inclusive package from an online travel agency, there are crazy good deals sometimes. Or you can book a luxury hotel. Or you can skip traveling if you cannot go, and still not pay those maintenance fees. Or you could play the credit cards miles and points system if you wish - or not. It's freedom!

Apparently you didn't quite get to all the posts about the OP never wanting to rent from an individual. Talk about inflexible. You call prepaying a fixed vacation with no ability to cancel freedom? Would that work with GregT's strategy of booking x3 and cancelling two? I do the same with exchanges.

I paid around $25k in maintenance fees for 2017. Am I crazy?

I am with you on the luxury travel but I guess I don't know how to do that at bargain prices. Is this peak season?

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Marriott is not in the same league as true luxury accommodations, like Aman, MO, or even FS. I would say Marriott is about 4* on average. They may call themselves luxury, sure, but they are not. It's about the same when they call their timeshare units "villas".

Regarding increased flexibility when you own a timeshare. In real life most people have limited vacation time. If you own a timeshare, you will plan your vacation around your timeshare ownership. You are paying maintenance fees for it. So in practice owning a timeshare eliminates any vacations not involving your timeshare. You get tied to it, and lose out on a huge world that is outside of the system.

I think the point is that vacations are a luxury good, not that Marriott is the most luxurious outfit in the world. Although to your point, Ritz-Carlton Clubs don't meet your definition of luxury?

 

[echino]

You call prepaying a fixed vacation with no ability to cancel freedom?

You call paying maintenance fees no matter what freedom? If you cancel your timeshare booking, nobody is refunding your maintenance fees.

 

[Hi I'm new here]

This is a view from a 2br OF at WKORVN (Maui). New Year 2015 week. Traveled with the whole family. My wife, parents and three kids. Paid $2,500 by renting direct from an owner who could not go. Who lost, and who gained from this transaction?
View attachment 3332

Echino, can you break down the location? Is this Westin Kaanapali? I once walked that resort to see where a friend stayed, owner rental. We stayed once at the Westin hotel and once at Sheraton Kaanapali, both with Pleasant Hawaiian Holiday packages. This travel company has unbeatable pricing, sometimes lodging and a car for not much more than airfare.
We've had great owner rentals in Hawaii on several islands, Marriott and non Marriott. Especially wonderful options on Kauai.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

You call paying maintenance fees no matter what freedom? If you cancel your timeshare booking, nobody is refunding your maintenance fees.

I can't compete with your private jet and beds for less than $500 but paying maintenance fees is in no way the same as prepaying an owner for a rental. As an owner you can cancel and change your reservation. You can deposit with interval and exchange elsewhere. You can rent out to someone else not afraid of an owner rental for a hefty profit. There is plenty of flexibility. An owner rentel potentially has zero flexibility.

I hate knocking owner rentals but I do it in the spirit of the OP's interest. It clearly isn't for him and even though I rent out units on occasion I don't love doing it myself so I can relate.

 

[echino]

About "villas". This is our villa - real one, not the "villa" in timeshare speak. With private pool etc. It's on Lombok in October 2016. Traveled there in JAL first class with my wife by using AA miles acquired for ~$0.01 each. Relaxed at the villa after climbing Rinjani. Fabulous beach and food. Paid about ~$100 per night. You cannot get it with a timeshare. If I owned a timeshare, I would never get to experience it.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Tell us your secrets. Can everyone do this? It sounds awesome.

 

[JIMinNC]

Regarding increased flexibility when you own a timeshare. In real life most people have limited vacation time. If you own a timeshare, you will plan your vacation around your timeshare ownership. You are paying maintenance fees for it. So in practice owning a timeshare eliminates any vacations not involving your timeshare. You get tied to it, and lose out on a huge world that is outside of the system.

This is simply not true, unless you happen to own too many timeshare weeks or points. Just because you own something in a timeshare system doesn't prevent you from taking cruises, other trips involving hotel stays, or whatever. If you get four weeks of vacation per year and only have enough timeshare ownership for one or two weeks, you still have two other weeks you can use for other kinds of travel, staycations, etc.

You call paying maintenance fees no matter what freedom? If you cancel your timeshare booking, nobody is refunding your maintenance fees.

I've canceled four timeshare bookings in the last three years. I've not lost anything. The points were redeposited in my account and I used 100% of them to book other trips. Some of the points were canceled and redeposited more than once.

About "villas". This is our villa - real one, not the "villa" in timeshare speak. With private pool etc. It's on Lombok in October 2016. Traveled there in JAL first class with my wife by using AA miles acquired for ~$0.01 each. Relaxed at the villa after climbing Rinjani. Fabulous beach and food. Paid about ~$100 per night. You cannot get it with a timeshare. If I owned a timeshare, I would never get to experience it.

Again, why would I never get to experience this if I owned a timeshare? I have the option to book it with cash just as you did. I bet almost everyone on TUG takes timeshare vacations and non-timeshare vacations.