[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[GoldenVIKE]

My wife and I (33, 36 yo) with 2 kids (1, 2 yo) just joined MVCI (4,000 points level) mostly to realize financial benefits over time (including in retirement in the distant future), but also for some of the intangible benefits the club offers like access to bigger villas, broader experiences, etc.

Part of our decision to buy was based on financial analysis. I'd like to lay this out to you experienced TS users and see if we're missing anything, or if any of the assumptions I'm making may not be accurate. We're within our 10-day review period so we could still back out...

Booking Value of a Point
First, practically all calculations hinge on how much annual "value" we're going to get out of the points on an annual basis in terms of booking vacations. I understand that this can vary greatly, but based on 50 internet comparisons of how much it'd cost to book various MVC villas through the internet, vs. how much they cost to book with DC points, it looks like assuming about $1.50 per point per year is a reasonable target. (For example, using 4,000 points should be the rough equivalent of spending $6,000 on the open market, and 6000/4000=$1.50) The average was actually $1.21 across the 50 searches but valued-minded owners can skew that upward. Still, I ran numbers at $1.50 and $1.20 just to get a range.

Owner Up-Front Acquisition Costs
Second, the way ownership is acquired is a big factor too. In doing a little research on the internet we decided to buy through Marriott rather than go resale because (a) it seems a hell of a lot easier and our time is valuable, and (b) the ultimate cost per point that you pay (after Marriott's incentives w/ direct and after junk fees with resale) is about the same. To buy resale looks like you'll be a little over $7 per point after you pass ROFR w/ a $5+ bid, and after you pay the transfer, education, closing, and other junk fees. Our all-in cost per point was $7.56 after incentives. Those included (a) 20% discount off of the $13.32 starting price (b) $999 reimbursement of our presentation trip (c) $1750 bonus due to adding an extra day onto our presentation trip (subtract $400) - you have to ask special for this (d) 4,000 bonus points for signing up at presentation - valued at $6,000 (e) 4,000 more bonus points for financing 70% of the purchase, which are net valued at $3,566 considering interest fees and tax deduction in the 18 months required to carry the loan for the bonus (f) $1,660 value of putting all up-front costs on Marriott Rewards card for 5x points, and (g) $1,180 closing costs. In summary depending on exactly how much you get resale points for, (using $4.50 to $5.00 range before junk fees) and assuming an annual booking value of $1.20 to $1.50 per point, the potential savings for going resale is around 2-15% (see below). Not worth the headache to us. Note that the math would be different at different levels of ownership.

Point: @$4.50 @$5.00
$1.20: -15.18% -9.02%
$1.30: -13.15% -6.85%
$1.40: -11.02% -4.56%
$1.50: -8.78% -2.16%

Calculating the Value of MVC Ownership
There are several ways to calculate return on a potential investment and I looked at just about all of them...

Perpetual Bond: 7.7% to 12.2% return on investment
Taking the future marginal value of the booking value of a point, over the maintenance and ownership fees yeilds $0.62 (@ $1.20) to $0.92 (@ $1.50) in net value per point per year. In the $1.50 per point example, that's $1.50 - $0.53 annual maintenance fee - $0.05 annual dues ($185 / 4,000 points) per point. Simply dividing the annual "return" on a point into the initial "investment" in that point is a simple calculation of interest as if it were a perpetual bond.

Internal 30-year Rate of Return: 6.1% to 11.5% return on investment
This method looks at all future cash flows and then finds the interest rate that would make the net present value $0. The range of results for our particular situation is 6.1% (at $1.20/point) to 10.4% (at $1.50/point). Add about a point to that if you successfully acquired a resale allotment of points at a discount vs. buying from Marriott direct. Note that this method doesn't contemplate some big things, including (a) the inflation hedge benefit of MVC ownership, (b) any residual value at 30 years, meaning that if the ownership still has value or can be re-sold for any amount at the end of the 30 year period, that's just a bonus.

Breakeven exit period: 3-7 years
The amount of time it'd take to be able to realize a break-even proposition when netting out (a) upfront costs (b) future savings and (c) cash-out in this case assuming the ability to sell at $4 per point in the resale market. Buying direct from Marriott range is 4-7 years, with 3 years possible if you get a good resale deal and realize $1.50 annual booking value per point.

Payback period: 8-12 years
Similar to the above, but assuming you're not going to sell and exit, it'd take a little longer to reach the point at which the total amount you've paid is equal to the total market value of the travel that you've booked through MVCI. Shave a year off both ends if you score a great deal on a resale. It's interesting to note that this goes to 20 years if the booking value per point drops to $1.00.

Cumulative Net Value: possibly over $100,000
In taking the cumulative net values of all incoming and outgoing cash, and not discounting or adjusting for inflation due to an assumption that while the cost of maintenance will go up over time, so will the cost of travel in general (they net each other out), here's the estimated net value at various milestones (looking at buying direct from Marriott only, as the additional value gained from scoring a good resale stake is minimal)

Time @$1.20 @1.50
1 year -$9,044 -$3,124
5 years -$4,034 $4,246
10 years $8,441 $22,721
20 years $33,391 $59,671
30 years $58,341 $96,621
.... and it'd keep going up from here

Cumulative Relative Discount: 20-40% cheaper travel for long-term MCVI owners
Using the same math as the payback period, this compares the total you've spent vs. the market value of all of your travel at various points in time, to calculate the cumulative effective discount (or premium) you've had on your travel due to being a MVCI owner. Here are some examples at various milestones...

Time @$1.20 @1.50
5 years +49.7% +26.1% (the + means you're paying more in the early years)
10 years +10.3% - 9.0%
20 years - 16.9% - 32.4%
30 years - 27.6% - 41.4%
.... and the discount would keep going in the same direction

Financial Summary
The stuff above made this a pretty easy decision for us, or at least easily justifiable from a financial perspective. Of course it all falls apart of the average booking value of a point goes down though. For example, if it falls to $1.00 then the payback period becomes 20 years and the IRR falls to 2.7%-3.9%; so it's really important that we continue to be able to book trips for fewer DC points than it'd cost $USD to book outside of the MVCI structure. This is why I'm very interested to hear your actual experience and perceived booking value of a DC point.

Intangible Benefits
And of course there are many cherries on top. I've been a frequent Marriott traveler w/ lifetime gold status, and enjoy and trust the brand. The ability to get early access to booking very desirable 2 and 3-br villas is going to be great for our family. As is the fact that being part of MVCI makes it easier and less awkward to invite friends and family to just come along, since everything is paid for already anyway (close enough). Not to mention other perks and experiences through Interval International, Homes, Cruises, MVP discounted bookings, etc. Plus just having something that psychologically feels like we're building wealth, having fun, and being part of a club; and ultimately can pass this down to our kids -- all of that stuff is truly icing on the cake to use a second dessert analogy in the same paragraph.

Anyway, if you've made it this far through this rambling post--uhh--thank you?! Sorry?! I'd love to hear feedback though to help us confirm whether we've made a good choice or not. How do you all feel about being MVCI members? Any regrets? Feeling the value? Thanks!

PS: Kudos to our TS Sales Rep w/ MVCI Allen Larkin. He was very transparent, forthcoming, and helpful. I'd recommend him to anyone that wants to learn more about MVCI.

 

[sb2313]

Maybe I missed it, but how much was the actual cost per point before you adjusted for incentives? Did you buy 4K points or did you buy a hybrid package as that does help to reduce price per point?

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I don't think there is anything in your analysis that I would agree with but I applaud your enthusiasm. Using terms like "investment", "rate of return", and "building wealth" makes you sound like a timeshare salesperson. All of that stuff is nonesense. Buying and using DC points can be a convenience but you aren't generating wealth by any means. The Marriott salesperson isn't doing you a favor.

I think a resale points purchase recently passed at $3.50 a point. It continues to drop the longer they sell points. It will eventually go down to no ROFR on a full time basis. Like all timeshares there will come a time when DC points will have little to no value due to the extremely high maintenance fees.

There are very few situations where it isn't cheaper to buy a resale week but nothing can match the flexibility and convenience of using points. It's just at what cost?

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Maybe I missed it, but how much was the actual cost per point before you adjusted for incentives? Did you buy 4K points or did you buy a hybrid package as that does help to reduce price per point?

Hi Steve, I mentioned the 20% discount but didn't explicitly lay out each step. Anyway the list price of a point is $13.32 minus 20% discount equals $10.66. Then start chopping off the other things from there to eventually get down to $7.56.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

I don't think there is anything in your analysis that I would agree with but I applaud your enthusiasm. Using terms like "investment", "rate of return", and "building wealth" makes you sound like a timeshare salesperson. All of that stuff is nonesense. Buying and using DC points can be a convenience but you aren't generating wealth by any means. The Marriott salesperson isn't doing you a favor.

I think a resale points purchase recently passed at $3.50 a point. It continues to drop the longer they sell points. It will eventually go down to no ROFR on a full time basis. Like all timeshares there will come a time when DC points will have little to no value due to the extremely high maintenance fees.

There are very few situations where it isn't cheaper to buy a resale week but nothing can match the flexibility and convenience of using points. It's just at what cost?

Thanks but do you have anything objective to base this on? The math above is just math. None of that came from MCVI people. "Wealth" in this case means a perpetual right to discounted travel. I'd agree that maintenance fees will likely continue to rise as will the cost of travel in general. If they rise at the same rate, then the net effect is moot, right? The cost of bluejeans and soda will increase too...

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Thanks but do you have anything objective to base this on? The math above is just math. None of that came from MCVI people. "Wealth" in this case means a perpetual right to discounted travel. I'd agree that maintenance fees will likely continue to rise as will the cost of travel in general. If they rise at the same rate, then the net effect is moot, right? The cost of bluejeans and soda will increase too...

If you have experience with timeshares you will know that timeshare maintenance fees definitely increase faster than any other things. Marriott is no exception.

Discounted travel? It depends on your definition of "discounted". I own many Marriott weeks and stay at Marriott properties quite often. I don't think I have ever paid close to what it would cost in annual fees if I had booked using DC points. Maybe close to even on some really low demand weeks. And that's assuming zero up front costs. For me personally, regular DC points would have little value but I can see the value in convenience and flexibility. For me booking with DC points would come with a "convenience" premium rather than a discount.

I don't want to completely knock the idea because if you have the money then it's not horrible. There are alternative cheaper options out there but admittedly they do require more work than simply booking with points. For me points are just way too expensive.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

If you do some comparisons you will actually find cases where booking with DC points can be more expensive than simply booking on Marriott.com that doesn't require prepayment and can be canceled 3 days prior. Or it can be cheaper to rent from an owner with no ongoing liability. So it all depends on how you plan to use the points and whether it makes sense for your specific purpose. There are definitely units out there that would be nearly impossible to get without points.

 

[frank808]

Or just buying the minimum amount of points and having the extra points transferred to you at a little more than maintenance fees? How long would it take you to break even then compared with your purchase price?

I have a feeling marriott will restrict the transfer of points one day or start charging to transfer points. This might put a downer on being able to rent 20 years from now. The only guarantee of timesharing is that it is continually changing.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

 

[vacationtime1]

If I were to analyze this as an "investment", then I would also consider:

1. The opportunity cost on the "invested" capital. OP's investment is somewhere between $30,000 and $43,000 (depending on the true value of the purchase incentives). Applying a 10% rate of return (probably low, given the illiquid, contingent nature of the asset) means that every vacation, every year, costs $3,000 - $4,300 more that the MF's paid. The MF's on a 4000 point package are about $2,200 alone, meaning the annual vacation has a true economic cost of $5,200 and $6,500. Note that this 4000 point package is insufficient to reserve the larger and/or most desirable units in the Marriott system.

2. Those points are not going to be worth $10.66 or even $7.56 when you or your heirs sell them. Few timeshares retain more than 10% of their value on the secondary (read: real) market after a few years; there is no reason to believe these points will be different. Points are not real estate and come with annual costs that are completely beyond your control. As those annual costs increase, the economic benefit of ownership is increasingly squeezed.

Value of points (per the poll above)? For me, the benchmark is a one bedroom ocean front unit at the original portion of the Maui Ocean Club during low season. 4125 points. I can rent that unit for about $2,500. So about $0.60/point.

 

[Pompey Family]

I scrolled through your post, past the sums as for us we didn't consider our purchases as investments, and read the last paragraph. Simply put, we enjoy the benefits of having well appointed villas with at least two bedrooms in very nice resorts. To book a holiday with similar amenities the traditional way would cost significantly more than our annual maintenance fees (excluding the initial purchase price however I consider the prices paid on our resale weeks have already been recouped by the potential savings we've made). With two young children having the separate rooms, kitchen, lounge etc is so much better than being crammed into a hotel room and that is one of the biggest benefits that you're going to find. Obviously as our children grow up then our priorities will change but we'll address that at the time.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

If I were to analyze this as an "investment", then I would also consider:

1. The opportunity cost on the "invested" capital. OP's investment is somewhere between $30,000 and $43,000 (depending on the true value of the purchase incentives). Applying a 10% rate of return (probably low, given the illiquid, contingent nature of the asset) means that every vacation, every year, costs $3,000 - $4,300 more that the MF's paid. The MF's on a 4000 point package are about $2,200 alone, meaning the annual vacation has a true economic cost of $5,200 and $6,500. Note that this 4000 point package is insufficient to reserve the larger and/or most desirable units in the Marriott system.

2. Those points are not going to be worth $10.66 or even $7.56 when you or your heirs sell them. Few timeshares retain more than 10% of their value on the secondary (read: real) market after a few years; there is no reason to believe these points will be different. Points are not real estate and come with annual costs that are completely beyond your control. As those annual costs increase, the economic benefit of ownership is increasingly squeezed.

Value of points (per the poll above)? For me, the benchmark is a one bedroom ocean front unit at the original portion of the Maui Ocean Club during low season. 4125 points. I can rent that unit for about $2,500. So about $0.60/point.

This is very helpful, thanks! Your post brings up a few questions:

1. When you say that you can rent this for $2,500 are you talking about just booking it online? Or renting someone's timeshare? I assume the latter because when I look at booking Maui Ocean Club from Dec 3-10 for the room you note, it's $5,390 after taxes and fees (5390/4125 = $1.31/point)
2. When using DC points I assume there are no additional taxes and fees, correct?

I should have mentioned that we're pretty busy and don't want to spend a lot of time "playing a game" to find deals that involve exchanging points with other owners, etc. We just want to go online and book trips. So in that context for me, when I say the value of a point, my comparison would be something that can be booked by anyone on the internet directly on marriott.com or orbitz.com or something; not what the minimum cost a TS-savvy sleuth can uncover. With that in mind, when I ran the 50 comparisons, I agree that there are some examples that come in around $0.65/point or so (e.g. Vegas Grand Chateau), but also many examples that come in higher ranges (e.g. Aruba Ocean Club in March 1-bd Oceanview that costs 2,975 points but online would be $5,424 after taxes = $1.82/point). Again the average of these 50 searches was $1.21 and the average of the top half of the values was $1.50.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Or just buying the minimum amount of points and having the extra points transferred to you at a little more than maintenance fees? How long would it take you to break even then compared with your purchase price?

I have a feeling marriott will restrict the transfer of points one day or start charging to transfer points. This might put a downer on being able to rent 20 years from now. The only guarantee of timesharing is that it is continually changing.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

Good question. Is it really easy to "borrow" others' points at slightly more than maintenance fees? We're not interested in spending a lot of time concocting ways to save a little more money, so if it's time consuming and complex count us out. (Home Away is too time consuming and annoying for us, dealing with owners, sending physical checks in the mail, etc) Also if you did this (e.g. buy into MVCI at 1,500 points or something, then rent others' points off of them) you'd be constrained with your booking windows right? Part of the benefit for us in going in at 4,000 points was getting a 13 month booking window; although now i'm questioning whether we shouldn't have done 7,000 level to get better access to Luxury properties and sub-7-day stays.... :-/

 

[GoldenVIKE]

If you have experience with timeshares you will know that timeshare maintenance fees definitely increase faster than any other things. Marriott is no exception.

Discounted travel? It depends on your definition of "discounted". I own many Marriott weeks and stay at Marriott properties quite often. I don't think I have ever paid close to what it would cost in annual fees if I had booked using DC points. Maybe close to even on some really low demand weeks. And that's assuming zero up front costs. For me personally, regular DC points would have little value but I can see the value in convenience and flexibility. For me booking with DC points would come with a "convenience" premium rather than a discount.

I don't want to completely knock the idea because if you have the money then it's not horrible. There are alternative cheaper options out there but admittedly they do require more work than simply booking with points. For me points are just way too expensive.

Yeah I think we're on the same page. I understand that there are cheaper ways to take vacations than MVCI. But we also highly value ease of booking and a modest degree of flexibility so are OK with the notion of a convenience premium. We're never going to be people that are scouring internet exchanges coming up with the cheapest ways to get trips. As long as MVCI gets the the ability to have nicer (bigger) rooms for less $ over time than we'd have just booking trips off of Marriott.com, we'll consider that winning

 

[sb2313]

Hi Steve, I mentioned the 20% discount but didn't explicitly lay out each step. Anyway the list price of a point is $13.32 minus 20% discount equals $10.66. Then start chopping off the other things from there to eventually get down to $7.56.

My suggestion, if you choose to keep the purchase, would be to look at at a hybrid week/points purchase. Many have been able to get an initial buy in price of around $7 per point, before discounts and deductions, by purchasing as such. Just my free advice, worth exactly what you paid for it! Good luck and enjoy your vacation time, whatever decisions you need up making.

 

[capjak]

My suggestion, if you choose to keep the purchase, would be to look at at a hybrid week/points purchase. Many have been able to get an initial buy in price of around $7 per point, before discounts and deductions, by purchasing as such. Just my free advice, worth exactly what you paid for it! Good luck and enjoy your vacation time, whatever decisions you need up making.

+1 If you are buying direct I would rescind the 4,000 point package and call to investigate a "Hybrid" purchase, which is basically buying from marriott a week at a resort that can use or trade for points along with a points purchase (so for 4,000 points total you would purchase a marriott week that represented 2,000 points and then purchase 2,000 trust points). Total Cost per point withOUT incentives $7.50. Using your math for incentives it would be less....

 

[bogey21]

Some 30 years ago we started out with your Marriott enthusiasm buying Weeks at Sabal, Heritage, Harbour and Monarch. We soon became disillusioned with the hassle of scheduling vacations, increasing MFs and Marriott changing the rules. Back then you could sell and pretty much get your money back. We sold Sabal, Heritage and Harbour and kept Monarch for a whole lot longer as it was a Fixed Week/Fixed Unit.

It is my opinion in today's world that in most cases renting is a better alternative. You have no outlay of dollars upfront; you will not be exposed to Marriott changing their rules; you have reduced hassle in scheduling; and you are not locked into Marriott but can rent Weeks in other systems.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

+1 If you are buying direct I would rescind the 4,000 point package and call to investigate a "Hybrid" purchase, which is basically buying from marriott a week at a resort that can use or trade for points along with a points purchase (so for 4,000 points total you would purchase a marriott week that represented 2,000 points and then purchase 2,000 trust points). Total Cost per point withOUT incentives $7.50. Using your math for incentives it would be less....

+2 but do the math on what week is being bundled. You want a good ratio of annual fee to points but the salesperson could choose a poor week. They do this because it lowers the up front cost and makes it look more attractive on the surface. Over time it shakes out to a worse deal. Choose your own week that has a good ratio.

 

[bazzap]

Yeah I think we're on the same page. I understand that there are cheaper ways to take vacations than MVCI. But we also highly value ease of booking and a modest degree of flexibility so are OK with the notion of a convenience premium. We're never going to be people that are scouring internet exchanges coming up with the cheapest ways to get trips. As long as MVCI gets the the ability to have nicer (bigger) rooms for less $ over time than we'd have just booking trips off of Marriott.com, we'll consider that winning

You have mentioned several times that you're pretty busy and don't want to spend a lot of time "playing a game"
Even putting aside any financial aspects, you should be aware that to get the best out of MVC just to secure the reservations you want you do need to spend a reasonable amount of time understanding how the system works, planning and being ready to make your booking at the exact date and time of the earliest inventory release.
Those who do tend to be pleased with MVC, many of those who don't often tend to be rather disillusioned.

 

[Fasttr]

(e) 4,000 more bonus points for financing 70% of the purchase, which are net valued at $3,566 considering interest fees and tax deduction in the 18 months required to carry the loan for the bonus

I would like to dig into your math on this one a bit. Not a fan of financing via MVC just to get more bonus points. A few thoughts that may be worth your pondering.....

1. Do you have the ability to pay cash for this purchase, or at the very least finance it using better terms than MVC offers?
2. Do you really need the additional 4000 points offered for financing via MVC for 18 months?
3. If the answer to #1 and #2 are yes, just want to make sure you realize you could easily rent those additional points on VPE (www.vacationpointexchange.com) for somewhere in the $2,000 to $2,220 range. So in reality, paying their financing rate is likely costing you real dollars as opposed to the way you are thinking about it as an additional discounted "value" helping to get your cost per point down.
4. If #1 is yes, and #2 is no....then it clearly makes no sense to finance via MVC.
5. If #1 is no, then I think you need to rethink your overall math regarding if this purchase really makes sense.

 

[KenA]

Unfortunately, you are working very hard to justify the purchase of points (as I once did). I also purchased retail initially. After finding TUG, I rescinded and ended up buying 2500 points at a later time on the resale market for less than $4.50 per point. (This was also before Marriott increased the fees to help curb these re-sales.) I often "rent" points using VPE to take trips as 2500 is not enough for our travel needs.

In addition, it can take quite of bit of time and planning to be able to book trip using points. It depends on the location, but it can be time consuming and challenging to book at certain destinations using points. You may need to be very flexible with places you would like to travel and/or be able to book well in advance for highly sought after locations.

Marriott has lots of destination/properties in the program, which I believe, dilutes the highly desirable properties. In other words, there are a lot of points owners seeking the same locations. (Try finding any South Carolina property in the summer to book with points).

Overall, I like the points but it does take work and patience to get what you want. The cost of buying retail points could not be justified for us. I will admit it can be easy to get swept up in the presentation. The reality of using points is nowhere near what is portrayed by the Marriott sales people.

 

[GreenTea]

If you want the membership for ease of vacation, then you really do not want the ownership. Vacation life was MUCH easier when I could say, I want to go to Hawaii in July....I'd look around, book what I wanted and go. Now, if I want to use MVC to go to Hawaii it involves an insanely nerve wracking brigade callers on my behalf, as well as online, to try to be the one that gets through at the exact right moment to get the reservation. If you are not at the appointed minute, 12 months out, you are not going where you plan. (always exceptions, but as a general rule, you have go to know every trick in the book)

You will definitely pay less buying resale. You will definitely pay less buying the minimum, of 1500 points and renting the rest you need. Do you have the cash on hand to pay pay it off either now or at the 18 month mark that you mention? The interest rate is really high.....calculate renting the 4000 points at .50 a point vs what you'll pay in interest for the 18 months. You can not pay it off with the Marriott visa at the 18 month mark. Cash only.

I don't regret buying my initial 1500 points directly, but I didn't consider it any wealth building opportunity either. Resale weeks are cheap on the secondary market and you can trade week for week via Interval International. Just another option to consider.

 

[Ty1on]

I would humbly suggest that instead of posting a thread asking if it is a good choice and then proceeding in the OP to broadcast that it was a good choice, you open your mind and suspend your analytical conclusions and look objectively at what some very experienced people are telling you here. Many of them started their paths in your EXACT position.

 

[JIMinNC]

This is very helpful, thanks! Your post brings up a few questions:

1. When you say that you can rent this for $2,500 are you talking about just booking it online? Or renting someone's timeshare? I assume the latter because when I look at booking Maui Ocean Club from Dec 3-10 for the room you note, it's $5,390 after taxes and fees (5390/4125 = $1.31/point)
2. When using DC points I assume there are no additional taxes and fees, correct?

I should have mentioned that we're pretty busy and don't want to spend a lot of time "playing a game" to find deals that involve exchanging points with other owners, etc. We just want to go online and book trips. So in that context for me, when I say the value of a point, my comparison would be something that can be booked by anyone on the internet directly on marriott.com or orbitz.com or something; not what the minimum cost a TS-savvy sleuth can uncover. With that in mind, when I ran the 50 comparisons, I agree that there are some examples that come in around $0.65/point or so (e.g. Vegas Grand Chateau), but also many examples that come in higher ranges (e.g. Aruba Ocean Club in March 1-bd Oceanview that costs 2,975 points but online would be $5,424 after taxes = $1.82/point). Again the average of these 50 searches was $1.21 and the average of the top half of the values was $1.50.

I tend to think of things much in the same way that you do. When evaluating the financials of points ownership, we never compare against booking on Home Away, Redweek, VRBO, AirBNB, etc. Too many hassles and risks dealing with other owners, as you allude to. I always compare ownership against the actual ways we would book if we didn't own - hotel online sites, Orbitz, Expedia, etc. or in some cases dealing with a Realtor who has a condo rental operation on behalf of owners. (There we are renting someone's condo, but are dealing with the Realtor, NOT the owner themselves.)

By contrast, many (most?) TUGgers are much more comfortable investing the time, energy, and risk of renting from an owner in order to save some money. So if you are looking for the best possible deal, comparing against a $2500 Redweek rental makes more sense than comparing against a $5,000 booking on Marriott.com. Also, many on TUG are legacy weeks owners who are not totally sold on buying MVC Trust points to get the flexibility and value of the Points system. These points are more expensive than legacy resale weeks, but as you have figured out, Points come with advantages as well. I think you should pay attention to what everyone is saying, keep an open mind, and consider whether any of their very informed points apply to you - but always keep in mind that TUGgers are a group that is much more willing to play the timeshare "game" than it sounds like you are.

I do agree with Fasttr in post #19 that if you are financing the purchase because you can't afford to pay cash, then I would reconsider since MVC financing terms aren't usually great and I'm not a big fan of using debt for a discretionary luxury purchase. But if, on the other hand, you could pay cash and are just using the financing (and absorbing the financing costs) as a way to get the bonus points, then maybe financing is OK based on your numbers. Some have suggested looking at a Hybrid Bundle as the best way to get a better price point on Points ownership, and that is usually the case (that's what we did in 2014), but most of those wind up costing in the same $7-$8/point range where you are already at price-wise, so I'm not sure if it would be worth the "rescind and replace" strategy.

Many TUGgers recommend buying the minimum number of points (1,500) and then renting what you need each year on www.vacationpointexchange.com (VPE), since those points can be "rented" (actually its a points transfer in MVC terminology) for about the same cost as what you would pay in maintenance fees on owned points. That way, you totally eliminate the up-front cost. That is a good alternate strategy since, while VPE rentals are another consumer-to-consumer transaction just like renting on Redweek or VRBO, the transaction is usually totally electronic with payment via PayPal, and once the owner has transferred the points to you, that owner is totally out of the picture and the points are yours to do with as you wish (unlike a condo rental from an owner where the owner is essentially acting as your landlord until your check-in/out). Rented (transferred) points, however, cannot be banked, borrowed, or transferred again, so they are stuck in the use year you acquire them in. As a result, you have to plan your points needs carefully, and a trip cancellation could leave you with points that can't be easily used. For that reason, I think points rentals are a better strategy for occasional years when you need more points than usual, rather than as a permanent alternative to owning points. There are however a number of TUGgers who use point rentals as their primary points strategy.

So I do think that you are approaching this decision to purchase in a methodical and financially consistent way - and have done a good job making an informed decision. Some may disagree with looking at the finances this way, but the way we looked at our purchase in 2014 was very similar to the approach you have taken to validate the economics.

In your post you mention the use of Points for cruises, tours, hotels, etc. I will caution you that your 4000 points won't go very far in the Explorer Collection. You may have to combine two or three years worth of points to book some of those items, and may find that booking direct for cash is just as cost effective. In most cases, MVC has to acquire that inventory from other companies, so it is not as cost effective as using points at an MVC location.

Another caution I will offer is to not assume that booking a Marriott timeshare is as easy as going on Marriott.com or orbitz.com and booking something. Timeshare tends to book much, much farther in advance than the hotel sites do. If you are wanting prime time in Maui, summer in Hilton Head, winter in Florida or the Caribbean, etc. you need to be prepared to be online and/or on the phone right at 9am on the 13-month or 12-month inventory release day. Even then, you may or may not be able to get exactly what you want. Timeshare inventory is limited, so people tend to move fast. So while there is still something of a "game" to any timeshare booking, I absolutely agree the MVC Points system is the closest thing I've found in the timeshare world to just going online and booking a hotel room or condo. It's much easier and less stressful than the old timeshare "weeks-based" trading game through II and RCI. Just don't expect it to be totally without "gamesmanship" or you may become disappointed. So far, we've always been able to get exactly what we want using the Points system, but others can report less successful experiences.

 

[JIMinNC]

If you want the membership for ease of vacation, then you really do not want the ownership. Vacation life was MUCH easier when I could say, I want to go to Hawaii in July....I'd look around, book what I wanted and go. Now, if I want to use MVC to go to Hawaii it involves an insanely nerve wracking brigade callers on my behalf, as well as online, to try to be the one that gets through at the exact right moment to get the reservation. If you are not at the appointed minute, 12 months out, you are not going where you plan. (always exceptions, but as a general rule, you have go to know every trick in the book)

Your Hawaii booking experience is the exact opposite of mine. We booked a 2BR Ocean Front at Maui Ocean Club for summer 2016 using points with ease. Booked online at the 12 month release time. In the months leading up to that booking, I shopped the system extensively from January through June and found Hawaii availability to be superb in most unit sizes/views at 12 months out, with many, many check-in dates still being available at 11 or even 10 months. Caribbean availability in the prime Jan-Mar window was more spotty than Hawaii, but with some date/view flexibility would still have been doable.

Unfortunately, we later had to cancel the Hawaii trip, but that's when points really worked well. Instead of having to deposit a canceled booking into II or going through some other hassle, the points were just returned to our account, and with the points freed up by the Hawaii cancellation, my wife and a friend spent four nights in Las Vegas in May 2016, my wife and daughter spent three nights at The Mayflower in D.C. in July, and we have a trip to Hilton Head scheduled for April 2017 in a 2BR OF during the Heritage PGA tournament.

 

[catharsis]

My suggestion, if you choose to keep the purchase, would be to look at at a hybrid week/points purchase. Many have been able to get an initial buy in price of around $7 per point, before discounts and deductions, by purchasing as such. Just my free advice, worth exactly what you paid for it! Good luck and enjoy your vacation time, whatever decisions you need up making.

A guest staying at mountainside last week at the same time as us purchased approx 11000 points for about 75k before incentives. We chatted briefly about it and I think the particular hybrid package is about as good as it gets in terms of upfront cost, maintenance fees and access to the higher levels of the program.

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