[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[GregT]

Santsfanfl, I respect you and the discourse we usually have, and have agreed to disagree with you on many occasions. That being said, usually you at least look up the source of what I write before outright denying it being valid.

Travelguard has the below policy and only 3 criteria. They clearly state that it is for ANY REASON as long as you cancel more than 48 hours before departure date as long as those criteria are met.

As long as you purchase the policy on each of the trips and they sold you the insurance, you would be covered.


https://www.travelguard.com/cancel-for-any-reason/

Cancel for Any Reason

The Cancel for Any Reason (CFAR) option is available as an upgrade when you purchase the Platinum, Gold, or My Travel Guard plan and is a great option that allows travelers to cancel their trip for any reason that is not otherwise covered in their base plan, provided they cancel their trip more than 48 hours before their departure date.

There are three criteria that must be met in order to be eligible for Cancel for Any Reason coverage:
Provided the above criteria is met, and the Insured is prevented from taking the trip for any reason not otherwise covered by this plan, the insurer will reimburse the insured for a percentage of the prepaid, forfeited, non-refundable payments or deposits for insured trip arrangement(s) up to the maximum limit.

1. The CFAR coverage is purchased within 15 days of the initial trip deposit
2. The trip is cancelled more than 48 hours prior to scheduled departure
3. The full cost of all non-refundable, prepaid trip arrangements is insured at the time of purchase

Be sure to read your description of coverage.

Jason,

It's not clear to me how you propose that I combine insurance with my different reservation requirements to ensure that I retain the flexibility I current enjoy with timeshare cancellation policies.

Using the recent Big Island trip as an example, would you advocate that I seek three separate reservations from owners via red week and then and then buy separate insurance policies to cover them?

Because one of the reservations did not have a Fri/Sat/Sun check-in, it would not have been available via redweek so I would have to commit to rack rate for it so that would have come with its own cancelation protection (at a premium cost) so I would really just need two policies. Will they even sell me two policies if it's clear one (possibly both) will trigger.

Thank you.

 

[Jason245]

Jason,

It's not clear to me how you propose that I combine insurance with my different reservation requirements to ensure that I retain the flexibility I current enjoy with timeshare cancellation policies.

Using the recent Big Island trip as an example, would you advocate that I seek three separate reservations from owners via red week and then and then buy separate insurance policies to cover them?

Because one of the reservations did not have a Fri/Sat/Sun check-in, it would not have been available via redweek so I would have to commit to rack rate for it so that would have come with its own cancelation protection (at a premium cost) so I would really just need two policies. Will they even sell me two policies if it's clear one (possibly both) will trigger.

Thank you.

Everyone has their own risk tollarance and loss allowance. I can only suggest you read the terms and conditions and make the decisions that best align with your legal rights and obligations as associated with the insurance policies you purchase.

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[GregT]

Everyone has their own risk tollarance and loss allowance. I can only suggest you read the terms and conditions and make the decisions that best align with your legal rights and obligations as associated with the insurance policies you purchase.

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Jason,

I'm sorry, I don't think purchasing multiple cancellation policies to cover rented owner weeks is a superior approach.

I think timeshares (with good cancelation policies) are the ideal way to deal with this uncertainty.

Marriott/HGVC/Starwood/Worldmark all have attractive cancelation policies that make them viable alternatives.

Best,

Greg

 

[Jason245]

Jason,

I'm sorry, I don't think purchasing multiple cancellation policies to cover rented owner weeks is a superior approach.

I think timeshares (with good cancelation policies) are the ideal way to deal with this uncertainty.

Marriott/HGVC/Starwood/Worldmark all have attractive cancelation policies that make them viable alternatives.

Best,

Greg

To each their own.. but out of curiosity, given your need to book at least 3 reservations for every trip, do you use all your points?

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[Quilter]

Santsfanfl, I respect you and the discourse we usually have, and have agreed to disagree with you on many occasions. That being said, usually you at least look up the source of what I write before outright denying it being valid.

Travelguard has the below policy and only 3 criteria. They clearly state that it is for ANY REASON as long as you cancel more than 48 hours before departure date as long as those criteria are met.

As long as you purchase the policy on each of the trips and they sold you the insurance, you would be covered.


https://www.travelguard.com/cancel-for-any-reason/

Cancel for Any Reason

The Cancel for Any Reason (CFAR) option is available as an upgrade when you purchase the Platinum, Gold, or My Travel Guard plan and is a great option that allows travelers to cancel their trip for any reason that is not otherwise covered in their base plan, provided they cancel their trip more than 48 hours before their departure date.

There are three criteria that must be met in order to be eligible for Cancel for Any Reason coverage:
Provided the above criteria is met, and the Insured is prevented from taking the trip for any reason not otherwise covered by this plan, the insurer will reimburse the insured for a percentage of the prepaid, forfeited, non-refundable payments or deposits for insured trip arrangement(s) up to the maximum limit.

1. The CFAR coverage is purchased within 15 days of the initial trip deposit
2. The trip is cancelled more than 48 hours prior to scheduled departure
3. The full cost of all non-refundable, prepaid trip arrangements is insured at the time of purchase

Be sure to read your description of coverage.

This is exactly what I meant when I said you find the oddest tidbits of information buried in a thread of a completely different title.

I went to the link but it's complicated. Can someone give me the Cliff Note version? How much are these policies? How does this relate to the insurance packages I purchase from Marriott for my annual usage?

 

[Quilter]

Regarding recent discussion about payback periods, here are the number of years to break even depending on how much you value a point in terms of its booking value. On the low end are people that are perfectly happy or even prefer to do P2P bookings. On the high end are people that would normally book on Marriott.com, but with TS would make a conscious attempt to maximize booking value. The "bonus" points you get from buying direct from MVCI are valued at $0.70 in all examples though, since those don't come with any special benefits beyond what you'd get from renting them. The example below is set at the 7,000 pt level - other levels would vary to some degree.

Direct=just signing up at presentation
Hybrid=buying a combined points and enrolled week direct from Marriott (benchmark for week: $2.80/pt upfront + $0.40 pt annual MF)
Resale=buying straight points resale @ $3.50/pt

Assuming $0 resale value of a point after you purchase it:

BookValue Direct Hybrid Resale
$0.70 65 30 25
$0.80 38 20 17
$0.90 27 15 12
$1.00 21 12 10
$1.10 17 10 8
$1.20 14 9 7
$1.30 12 8 6
$1.40 11 7 5
$1.50 10 6 5

Assuming $3/pt resale value of a point after you purchase it:

BookValue Direct Hybrid Resale
$0.70 45 15 13
$0.80 26 10 8
$0.90 18 8 6
$1.00 14 6 5
$1.10 12 5 4
$1.20 10 5 4
$1.30 9 4 3
$1.40 8 4 3
$1.50 7 3 2

Very interesting number crunching. You do have the brain for this.

However. . .

After the ink dries on the recission period the break even won't matter. You will not need to keep track for anything but your own delight of playing with numbers. It's not like a savings account you can draw from.

Your breakeven will be in the intangible form of memories.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

*snip*and the Insured is prevented from taking the trip*snip*

You missed this key point in your quote from the AIG website. Who defines "prevented"? Does "I changed my mind" mean I am "prevented" from going? I guarantee you that the insurance company will not agree that "I changed my mind" is a valid reason for full reimbursement of a 100% prepaid redweek rental.

Even if they did pony up based on a covered work issue or it really was any reason they wouldn't keep selling loads of policies to the same person that cancels 10 trips a year. If they did they would price them so they will make an ongoing profit, which really defeats the purpose of a frequent traveler.

 

[Quilter]

They're "free trips" thrown in. Today if you go sign up at presentation for say 2,000 points, you'll get a "free trip" (i.e. 2,000 extra points for one-time use) for signing up at presentation, plus another 2,000 point "free trip" if you finance at least 70% of the purchase and keep the loan active for at least 18 months. On the latter, the net effect of the free trip plus tax writeoff, minus the interest you pay in 18 months, is pretty solid so I included it in my calculations. If you decline to finance then both "direct" deals above are SLIGHTLY less attractive, but not nearly enough so that it'd impact the payoff periods.

If I recall, the PlusPoints had stipulations that restricted their use. Or was it just the fact that their expiration date made it difficult to reserve certain properties in the desired timeframe? Or that it was difficult to find something that used the exact amount of points without having to waste the leftovers?

We only got 800 and at the time of roll out. In a seminar held at OP we were told they could be used for hotels. When I tried to use them as such it wasn't allowable for the hotel we wanted. Yet, with the help of one Marriott executive who is no longer in the MVC sector, we were able to trade these points for a couple nights in the hotel we wanted.

 

[Jason245]

You missed this key point in your quote from the AIG website. Who defines "prevented"? Does "I changed my mind" mean I am "prevented" from going? I guarantee you that the insurance company will not agree that "I changed my mind" is a valid reason for full reimbursement of a 100% prepaid redweek rental.

Even if they did pony up based on a covered work issue or it really was any reason they wouldn't keep selling loads of policies to the same person that cancels 10 trips a year. If they did they would price them so they will make an ongoing profit, which really defeats the purpose of a frequent traveler.

That sentance refers to the base plan since this is an add on plan.

If you read the entire sentance (and not just one word of it) you would get the context.

Provided the above criteria is met, and the Insured is prevented from taking the trip for any reason not otherwise covered by this plan, the insurer will reimburse the insured for a percentage of the prepaid, forfeited, non-refundable payments or deposits for insured trip arrangement(s) up to the maximum limit.

Simple English:

If the purchases of this additional coverage is prevented from taking the trip for reasons not otherwise ensured (like illness), then this additional coverage covers you.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

You missed this key point in your quote from the AIG website. Who defines "prevented"? Does "I changed my mind" mean I am "prevented" from going? I guarantee you that the insurance company will not agree that "I changed my mind" is a valid reason for full reimbursement of a 100% prepaid redweek rental.

Even if they did pony up based on a covered work issue or it really was any reason they wouldn't keep selling loads of policies to the same person that cancels 10 trips a year. If they did they would price them so they will make an ongoing profit, which really defeats the purpose of a frequent traveler.

After reading into CFAR further it appears to be an expensive add-on option and many times will not cover 100% of the costs. So in GregT's case even if he could have made that many rental reservations and bought that many policies and filed that many claims the insurance policy costs and reimbursements limits would likely make such a plan less feasible than what he is already doing. And definitely far more work and headache.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

That sentance refers to the base plan since this is an add on plan.

If you read the entire sentance (and not just one word of it) you would get the context.

Provided the above criteria is met, and the Insured is prevented from taking the trip for any reason not otherwise covered by this plan, the insurer will reimburse the insured for a percentage of the prepaid, forfeited, non-refundable payments or deposits for insured trip arrangement(s) up to the maximum limit.

Simple English:

If the purchases of this additional coverage is prevented from taking the trip for reasons not otherwise ensured (like illness), then this additional coverage covers you.

It's a percentage, with a cap. Why would anyone plan to do that with so many known cancellations? Why would that be better than what he is already doing? Even if you could possibly come out ahead on a routine and continual basis, the insurance company wouldn't keep selling you policies.

 

[Quilter]

Because one of the reservations did not have a Fri/Sat/Sun check-in, it would not have been available via redweek so I would have to commit to rack rate for it so that would have come with its own cancelation protection (at a premium cost) so I would really just need two policies. Will they even sell me two policies if it's clear one (possibly both) will trigger.

Thank you.

Oh dear I'm going to get censored soon for repeating myself. . .

The simplest way to work the MVC system is to develop a trusting relationship with an owner at Chairman level who can reserve the time you want. No need to commit to rack rates for a reservation that does not have a Fri/Sat/Sun check-in.

 

[Jason245]

It's a percentage, with a cap. Why would anyone plan to do that with so many known cancellations? Why would that be better than what he is already doing? Even if you could possibly come out ahead on a routine and continual basis, the insurance company wouldn't keep selling you policies.

I don't make their business model or decide for them which products they offer or don't offer. I also dont set their rates. That is what their actuarial analysis is for.

I am simply presenting information. I don't sell their products.



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[Saintsfanfl]

I don't make their business model or decide for them which products they offer or don't offer. I also dont set their rates. That is what their actuarial analysis is for.

I am simply presenting information. I don't sell their products.



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I know but you are making a case that their policies would satisfy GregT's booking methods with rentals instead of using the DC. It is not a valid argument because the cost would be extensive not to mention one has to be willing to book from owner rentals in the first place. It would be a royal pain and likely more expensive. It would defeat the purpose of the "cheaper alternative" argument. Some of his reservations would be very expensive even as an owner rental.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Oh dear I'm going to get censored soon for repeating myself. . .

The simplest way to work the MVC system is to develop a trusting relationship with an owner at Chairman level who can reserve the time you want. No need to commit to rack rates for a reservation that does not have a Fri/Sat/Sun check-in.

GregT was countering the argument that one can rent from owners and does not need to mess with DC points to begin with.

Developing a trusting relationship with an owner at chairman level isn't going to be an option for the masses.

 

[Jason245]

I know but you are making a case that their policies would satisfy GregT's booking methods with rentals instead of using the DC. It is not a valid argument because the cost would be extensive not to mention one has to be willing to book from owner rentals in the first place. It would be a royal pain and likely more expensive. It would defeat the purpose of the "cheaper alternative" argument. Some of his reservations would be very expensive even as an owner rental.

If someone needs to make a minimum of 3 or 4 reservations every trip, they would need a ton of excess points and or ownerships. . Long run there may be mf dollars being thrown in the toilet just to cover that need.

I am presenting alternatives. .. ultimately every alternative needs to be measured and analyzed given the circumstances involved. This is one that many were not aware of.

Everyone's situation is different. I doubt that the vast majority of tug reader ts owners buy with the inability to commit to dates a while in advance. Heck it is actually one of the questions tug has on the "what should I buy" thread.





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[davidvel]

Regarding recent discussion about payback periods, here are the number of years to break even depending on how much you value a point in terms of its booking value. On the low end are people that are perfectly happy or even prefer to do P2P bookings. On the high end are people that would normally book on Marriott.com, but with TS would make a conscious attempt to maximize booking value. The "bonus" points you get from buying direct from MVCI are valued at $0.70 in all examples though, since those don't come with any special benefits beyond what you'd get from renting them. The example below is set at the 7,000 pt level - other levels would vary to some degree.

Direct=just signing up at presentation
Hybrid=buying a combined points and enrolled week direct from Marriott (benchmark for week: $2.80/pt upfront + $0.40 pt annual MF)
Resale=buying straight points resale @ $3.50/pt

Assuming $0 resale value of a point after you purchase it:

BookValue Direct Hybrid Resale
$0.70 65 30 25
$0.80 38 20 17
$0.90 27 15 12
$1.00 21 12 10
$1.10 17 10 8
$1.20 14 9 7
$1.30 12 8 6
$1.40 11 7 5
$1.50 10 6 5

Assuming $3/pt resale value of a point after you purchase it:

BookValue Direct Hybrid Resale
$0.70 45 15 13
$0.80 26 10 8
$0.90 18 8 6
$1.00 14 6 5
$1.10 12 5 4
$1.20 10 5 4
$1.30 9 4 3
$1.40 8 4 3
$1.50 7 3 2

If I'm reading the charts corectly, you calculate a 14 year "break even", and 10 year "break even" (if you later sell at 3/pt), for a direct purchase that one values at a 1.10 booking value (for booking at Marriott.com)?

 

[davidvel]

If someone needs to make a minimum of 3 or 4 reservations every trip, they would need a ton of excess points and or ownerships. . Long run there may be mf dollars being thrown in the toilet just to cover that need.

I am presenting alternatives. .. ultimately every alternative needs to be measured and analyzed given the circumstances involved. This is one that many were not aware of.

Everyone's situation is different. I doubt that the vast majority of tug reader ts owners buy with the inability to commit to dates a while in advance. Heck it is actually one of the questions tug has on the "what should I buy" thread.





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Without speaking for Greg, and not really realted to the topic at hand, I highly doubt he lets his points go unused...

And you did start by claiming that this insurance is a replacement for the cancelation flexibility (did I really just use that term?) Greg was referencing. Without knowing the cost for this "any reason" (hard to fathom) coverage and the percentage it reimburses, it's impossible to determine its value in relation to the cost of DC points.

 

[Quilter]

GregT was countering the argument that one can rent from owners and does not need to mess with DC points to begin with.

Developing a trusting relationship with an owner at chairman level isn't going to be an option for the masses.

I was respectfully countering the countering . . .not all redweek ads begin on a Fri/Sat/Sun and run for 7 days. Rentals can be made with a check-in midweek and run for any number of days.

And I respectfully counter that just because something doesn't work for the masses it shouldn't be discussed. I know many who gladly take advantage of the benefits and simplicity of reserving through an owner without an ongoing commitment to MF's.

 

[davidvel]

GregT was countering the argument that one can rent from owners and does not need to mess with DC points to begin with.

Developing a trusting relationship with an owner at chairman level isn't going to be an option for the masses.

I thought the point of TUG was to help people not be "the masses."

 

[Marathoner]

We only got 800 and at the time of roll out. In a seminar held at OP we were told they could be used for hotels. When I tried to use them as such it wasn't allowable for the hotel we wanted. Yet, with the help of one Marriott executive who is no longer in the MVC sector, we were able to trade these points for a couple nights in the hotel we wanted.

Hi, could you please explain in more detail how we can book Marriott hotels with Plus Points? Thank you.

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[GoldenVIKE]

If I'm reading the charts corectly, you calculate a 14 year "break even", and 10 year "break even" (if you later sell at 3/pt), for a direct purchase that one values at a 1.10 booking value (for booking at Marriott.com)?

If you consider the booking value of a point to be $1.10, then your breakeven from a standard direct sale (not a hybrid package) is 17 years if it turns out you can't sell your points back. If you can sell your points back at $3/point, then the breakeven exit period is 12 years.

The amount that you value the booking value of a point at is a function of how you value alternative methods of booking trips, and the associated pros and cons of those. I personally value the points at roughly the cost of booking an equivalent room on Marriott.com (around $1.30 or so on average, even though in some cases you can get $2.00 or so) because using DC affords you the opportunity to have more access to bigger and a wider variety of rooms at 13 months out. Of course there are some drawbacks which is why I don't value them at $1.50 which you could easily achieve by working the system). Others value the booking value of a point closer to $0.70 because they don't seem to be bothered by the inconveniences and relative lack of flexibility that you get from going Peer-to-Peer. I assume even the hardcore renters would place SOME value in the autonomy and flexibility associated with points, which is why I set the low end at $0.70 instead of $0.55 or $0.60. (The going rent for renting points)

For folks that value points at $0.70 or anywhere near the low end, there's really no form of TS Points ownership that'd likely make sense to them.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

If someone needs to make a minimum of 3 or 4 reservations every trip, they would need a ton of excess points and or ownerships. . Long run there may be mf dollars being thrown in the toilet just to cover that need.

I am presenting alternatives. .. ultimately every alternative needs to be measured and analyzed given the circumstances involved. This is one that many were not aware of.

Everyone's situation is different. I doubt that the vast majority of tug reader ts owners buy with the inability to commit to dates a while in advance. Heck it is actually one of the questions tug has on the "what should I buy" thread.





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This is interesting but even setting aside whatever these policies cost, the thought of taking out an insurance policy on our vacation trips and then having to file claims on the ones we cancel makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Have you actually done this?

A word of caution from someone that works in insurance: many policies advertise themselves with broad terminology. For example, an "all risk" property policy does not typically (ever?) cover "all risks". There are exclusions in every insurance policy, and regardless of what the website may say I'd recommend reading the actual policy itself. As noted above, even if no exclusions apply to this "Cancel for Any Reason" insurance, the website itself says that it covers a percentage of the trip up to a certain limit. https://www.travelguard.com/cancel-for-any-reason/

 

[Jason245]

This is interesting but even setting aside whatever these policies cost, the thought of taking out an insurance policy on our vacation trips and then having to file claims on the ones we cancel makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Have you actually done this?

A word of caution from someone that works in insurance: many policies advertise themselves with broad terminology. For example, an "all risk" property policy does not typically (ever?) cover "all risks". There are exclusions in every insurance policy, and regardless of what the website may say I'd recommend reading the actual policy itself. As noted above, even if no exclusions apply to this "Cancel for Any Reason" insurance, the website itself says that it covers a percentage of the trip up to a certain limit. https://www.travelguard.com/cancel-for-any-reason/

I have successfully used numerous insurance policies over the years.. ironically, the most underused by consumers and valuable are credit card protections. I have used price protection, purchase protection and warranty extension benefits so much that the annual fees on some cards have more than paid for themselves.

It amazes me how much money most people leave on the table and how little effort is required to actually collect it.







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[GoldenVIKE]

I have successfully used numerous insurance policies over the years.. ironically, the most underused by consumers and valuable are credit card protections. I have used price protection, purchase protection and warranty extension benefits so much that the annual fees on some cards have more than paid for themselves.

It amazes me how much money most people leave on the table and how little effort is required to actually collect it.







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totally agree. i think every AmEx card automatically doubles the mfr warranty on practically everything you can purchase with a credit card. i've only used it once (on a refurbished Blu Ray player) but it was pretty easy.